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Is rape always about power?

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    #122
    Three Seasons
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 548 ✭✭✭Three Seasons


    Latchy wrote: »
    Rape by definition has to have some power by the perpetrator over the victim which I would imagine also plays some (if not all ) part in the act .

    Mugging a by definition has to have some power by the perpetrator over te victim which I imagine also plays some ( of not all) part in the act.


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    #123
    Latchy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 21,191 ✭✭✭✭Latchy


    Three Seasons wrote: »
    Mugging a by definition has to have some power by the perpetrator over te victim which I imagine also plays some ( of not all) part in the act.


    Mugging and Rape by definition has to have some power by the perpetrator over the victim which I imagine also plays some ( of not all) part in the act .

    Your point is ?


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    #124
    Three Seasons
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 548 ✭✭✭Three Seasons


    Latchy wrote: »
    Mugging and Rape by definition has to have some power by the perpetrator over the victim which I imagine also plays some ( of not all) part in the act .

    Your point is ?

    Why don't we hear repetitive rhetoric about muggings being a crime of power?

    A thief could smash a window, to rob a house. That doesn't mean the crime was about smashed windows. The smashed window is incidental, it's arbitrary to say the thief's crime was about smashed windows.


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    #125
    Latchy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 21,191 ✭✭✭✭Latchy


    Three Seasons wrote: »
    Why don't we hear repetitive rhetoric about muggings being a crime of power?

    A thief could smash a window, to rob a house. That doesn't mean the crime was about smashed windows. The smashed window is incidental, it's arbitrary to say the thief's crime was about smashed windows.
    The thread is about the act of Rape as a form of power and you would have to physically use power over the victim( obviously) which I suggested may be part of the thrill and satisfaction for the perpetrator's as much as the actual sexual act ...that was my point ...which you simply repeated again in another form . You could ask if bullying at school or in the work place is about power which in that case is as much psychological as physical which I also suggest could be what the perpetrator has in mind .


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    #126
    UCDVet
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,894 ✭✭✭UCDVet


    No, rape is not always about power.

    /thread


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    #127
    Pug160
    Registered Users Posts: 1,088 ✭✭✭Pug160


    Noodleworm wrote: »
    I think a lot of people here are discounting the fact that most rape cases are not a stranger jumping out in a dark alley.
    They are done by people the victim know, so could be an acquaintance, friends, someone there on a date with. and a lot of the time substances play a role, mostly alcohol. Many cases are where some guy took advantage of the fact some girl was passed out.

    A lot of rapes are not reported, so we don't really know how many occur. The 'jumping out of the bushes' rapes still happen enough to warrant being discussed. I've heard a few stories over the years about bogus taxi drivers raping women, and the usual stories about women walking home late at night being attacked, so it still happens. As I said earlier, I think some rapists are just opportunists who take advantage of a situation the same way a thief would. That's not to say rape is on a par with robbery, but it's similar in some respects.


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    #128
    Seachmall
    Registered Users Posts: 7,041 ✭✭✭Seachmall


    Three Seasons wrote: »
    Why don't we hear repetitive rhetoric about muggings being a crime of power?

    Because a mugging has a clear purpose. Taking something that the criminal believes is only available, or is more easily available, by taking it directly from the person.

    The intuitive purpose of rape is sexual gratification. But sexual gratification can be gotten from other methods that are both easier, more readily available and less risky (such as prostitutes or simple masturbation).

    That would suggest that sexual gratification is not the only purpose in cases of rape.

    Opportunistic rape might be different, a person may see it as an easy and risk-free chance of achieving sexual gratification (such as if the person is unconscious after a night of drinking) but someone who actively seeks out a victim to rape is not simply attempting to blow a load.


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    #129
    Pug160
    Registered Users Posts: 1,088 ✭✭✭Pug160


    Seachmall wrote: »
    Because a mugging has a clear purpose. Taking something that the criminal believes is only available, or is more easily available, by taking it directly from the person.

    The intuitive purpose of rape is sexual gratification. But sexual gratification can be gotten from other methods that are both easier, more readily available and less risky (such as prostitutes or simple masturbation).

    That would suggest that sexual gratification is not the only purpose in cases of rape.

    Opportunistic rape might be different, a person may see it as an easy and risk-free chance of achieving sexual gratification (such as if the person is unconscious after a night of drinking) but someone who actively seeks out a victim to rape is not simply attempting to blow a load.

    I think some of the rapists probably get off on the fact the girl they rape is just a pretty civilian. Street prostitutes are usually rough looking to say the least, and higher class escorts are generally only affordable if you're reasonably wealthy. In some cases the rape could very well be just sexual gratification with someone they selfishly want. How many times this happens is impossible to say, but I'd imagine there are some in this category, even if they're a minority.


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    #130
    hatrickpatrick
    Registered Users Posts: 17,797 ✭✭✭✭hatrickpatrick


    Why is AH so preoccupied with rape and the various sub-topics thereof lately...?


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    #131
    Three Seasons
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 548 ✭✭✭Three Seasons


    Seachmall wrote: »
    Because a mugging has a clear purpose. Taking something that the criminal believes is only available, or is more easily available, by taking it directly from the person.

    The intuitive purpose of rape is sexual gratification. But sexual gratification can be gotten from other methods that are both easier, more readily available and less risky (such as prostitutes or simple masturbation).

    That would suggest that sexual gratification is not the only purpose in cases of rape.

    Opportunistic rape might be different, a person may see it as an easy and risk-free chance of achieving sexual gratification (such as if the person is unconscious after a night of drinking) but someone who actively seeks out a victim to rape is not simply attempting to blow a load.

    It is a huge assumption to make that rapists never rape purely to get sex, one I don't agree with.


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    #132
    Seachmall
    Registered Users Posts: 7,041 ✭✭✭Seachmall


    Three Seasons wrote: »
    It is a huge assumption to make that rapists never rape purely to get sex, one I don't agree with.

    I don't mean to suggest that it's purely or exclusively about power. There are opportunists, people with mental or emotional disorders, people on drugs, and so on.

    But the reason people focus on the power aspect is because that is primarily what fuels the archetypical sicko/psycho/weirdo rapist that people imagine when they think of rapists.

    Whether those people are the majority of rapists I've no idea, I'd actually be somewhat surprised if they were.


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    #133
    GalwayGuy2
    Registered Users Posts: 2,269 ✭✭✭GalwayGuy2


    Opportunistic rape might be different, a person may see it as an easy and risk-free chance of achieving sexual gratification (such as if the person is unconscious after a night of drinking) but someone who actively seeks out a victim to rape is not simply attempting to blow a load.

    Tbh, I think there's a power element to the unconcious alcolhol scene. It's a bit of "She won't know what I did to her", "She can't fight", "She deserves it for passing out drunk". I find it very hard to believe that someone would have sex with an unconscious woman because they were horny.
    It is a huge assumption to make that rapists never rape purely to get sex, one I don't agree with.

    Why?

    Isn't there always a little (as in microscopic) sub and domness in a normal sexual relationship? So, why can't you believe that a person who rapes has such a skewed mentality that he equates power over a person, without their consent, as sexual gratification?

    And just to some random points. I don't believe male sexual urges are this overpowering inclination. And, I don't think female sexuality is really different biologically, sociologically is a whole different story.


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    #134
    BlimpGaz
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 86 ✭✭BlimpGaz


    Seachmall wrote: »
    sexual gratification can be gotten from other methods that are both easier, more readily available and less risky (such as prostitutes or simple masturbation).

    That would suggest that sexual gratification is not the only purpose in cases of rape.

    If that's the case, then why do so many men seek casual sex with willing women rather than simply availing of the easier and supposed equally equivalent options that are readily available to them (i.e. sex with prostitutes/masturbation)?


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    #135
    BlimpGaz
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 86 ✭✭BlimpGaz


    I would name anger/frustration as the cause of rape, long before I'd name some vaguely defined 'hunger for power'.


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    #136
    Three Seasons
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 548 ✭✭✭Three Seasons


    GalwayGuy2 wrote: »
    Tbh, I think there's a power element to the unconcious alcolhol scene. It's a bit of "She won't know what I did to her", "She can't fight", "She deserves it for passing out drunk". I find it very hard to believe that someone would have sex with an unconscious woman because they were horny.


    Why?

    Isn't there always a little (as in microscopic) sub and domness in a normal sexual relationship? So, why can't you believe that a person who rapes has such a skewed mentality that he equates power over a person, without their consent, as sexual gratification?

    And just to some random points. I don't believe male sexual urges are this overpowering inclination. And, I don't think female sexuality is really different biologically, sociologically is a whole different story.

    If you believe all rapist have the same mentality I believe it is you who has the skewed mentality.

    Racists don't have some hive mind, they have unique personalities and motivations. It would be insane tonsuggest you know the motivations of every single rapists.


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    #137
    Seachmall
    Registered Users Posts: 7,041 ✭✭✭Seachmall


    BlimpGaz wrote: »
    If that's the case, then why do so many men seek casual sex with willing women rather than simply availing of the easier and supposed equally equivalent options that are readily available to them (i.e. sex with prostitutes/masturbation)?

    Because masturbation is boring and prostitution is frowned upon? Or maybe they like the chase? Or maybe they're looking for love? And so on and so forth.

    Regardless, if you were deprived of sex for several years and desperate for it would you rape someone? I'm assuming no, which means there are other factors at play than just sexual gratification.
    I would name anger/frustration as the cause of rape, long before I'd name some vaguely defined 'hunger for power'.
    Taking your anger or frustration out on some is a power ploy.


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    #138
    Latchy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 21,191 ✭✭✭✭Latchy


    Pug160 wrote: »
    I think some of the rapists probably get off on the fact the girl they rape is just a pretty civilian. Street prostitutes are usually rough looking to say the least, and higher class escorts are generally only affordable if you're reasonably wealthy. In some cases the rape could very well be just sexual gratification with someone they selfishly want. How many times this happens is impossible to say, but I'd imagine there are some in this category, even if they're a minority.
    I also think this is a big factor for a lot of Rapists .Having consensual sex with a worn out prostitute doesn't do it for them but the idea of having sex with somebody ( or anybody ) unobtainable who takes their fancy is what get's them off .


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    #139
    seenitall
    Registered Users Posts: 3,710 ✭✭✭seenitall


    BlimpGaz wrote: »
    If that's the case, then why do so many men seek casual sex with willing women rather than simply availing of the easier and supposed equally equivalent options that are readily available to them (i.e. sex with prostitutes/masturbation)?

    Because emotionally well-balanced adults seek the validation of their sexual attractiveness with other adults who they, in turn, find desirable.

    Just don't ask me why, though, the reasons for this strange behaviour are utterly beyond me when such great alternatives as paying for it and DIY are available.

    Are you 10?


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    #140
    BlimpGaz
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 86 ✭✭BlimpGaz


    There must be a psychological reason why some people (mainly female) are so evidently attached to the belief that rapists predominantly desire power as a motive for their crimes. I think it's because that particular motive dissolves the rapist of the least blame (not that a rapist isn't completely responsible for his rapes, but is it really realistic to propose that a new-born baby is predetermined to commit the horrific act of rape in his lifetime?).

    If a rapist is driven by anger/frustration/horniness, that then automatically prompts the question of why. Whereas if he was driven by 'greed for power', people are less likely to inquire why, and more likely to assume the simplistic conclusion that he is just inherently evil, which then perpetuates the victim complex. I would urge those people not to settle for the simplest answer that feeds your desired beliefs and offers comfort, if you truly wish to understand the motives of rapists and hence be able to prevent the crime.


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    #141
    BlimpGaz
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 86 ✭✭BlimpGaz


    Seachmall wrote: »
    Taking your anger or frustration out on some is a power ploy.

    I don't disagree, But if that's the case wouldn't you specify anger/frustration as the motive rather than "power"?


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    #142
    BlimpGaz
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 86 ✭✭BlimpGaz


    seenitall wrote: »
    Because emotionally well-balanced adults seek the validation of their sexual attractiveness with other adults who they, in turn, find desirable.

    Just don't ask me why, though, the reasons for this strange behaviour are utterly beyond me when such great alternatives as paying for it and DIY are available.

    Are you 10?

    More like emotionally imbalanced teenage girls. Were you serious with this post?


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    #143
    Seachmall
    Registered Users Posts: 7,041 ✭✭✭Seachmall


    BlimpGaz wrote: »
    but is it really realistic to propose that a new-born baby is predetermined to commit the horrific act of rape in his lifetime?).
    Is anybody proposing that?
    If a rapist is driven by anger/frustration/horniness, that then automatically prompts the question of why.
    Once again, anger and frustration would fall into the power box.

    And I fail to see how horniness would prompt the question of why.
    Whereas if he was driven by 'greed for power', people are less likely to inquire why, and more likely to assume the simplistic conclusion that he is just inherently evil, which then perpetuates the victim complex. I would urge those people not to settle for the simplest answer that feeds your desired beliefs and offers comfort, if you truly wish to understand the motives of rapists and hence be able to prevent the crime.
    The Power motive is probably the most complicated answer that has been suggested in response to the question of why people commit rape.

    BlimpGaz wrote: »
    More like emotionally imbalanced teenage girls. Were you serious with this post?
    Are you suggesting people don't seek validation from others? Really? Do you exist outside of a computer?


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    #144
    seenitall
    Registered Users Posts: 3,710 ✭✭✭seenitall


    BlimpGaz wrote: »
    More like emotionally imbalanced teenage girls. Were you serious with this post?

    I was serious. In addition, although I was joking, I see that, considering the alternatives, you being 10 would be the most preferable state of affairs at this stage.


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    #145
    bodice ripper
    Registered Users Posts: 4,681 ✭✭✭bodice ripper


    I suspect this focus on power in rape is partly driven by the fact that the idea that it could be about overwhelming sex drive in men is just deeply unpalatable.


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    #146
    BlimpGaz
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 86 ✭✭BlimpGaz


    bodice ripper wrote: »
    I suspect this focus on power in rape is partly driven by the fact that the idea that it could be about overwhelming sex drive in men is just deeply unpalatable.

    Allow me to take a wild guess, female?


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    #147
    Grayson
    Registered Users Posts: 16,136 ✭✭✭✭Grayson


    bodice ripper wrote: »
    I suspect this focus on power in rape is partly driven by the fact that the idea that it could be about overwhelming sex drive in men is just deeply unpalatable.

    Plus they could just hire a sex worker for a small amount.


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    #148
    bnt
    Registered Users Posts: 12,961 ✭✭✭✭bnt


    Well, as a guy, my response to the OP's question is "how the hell would I know?"
    I've never spoken to a rapist about it, or personally felt the urge to rape, so I'm bemused how so many posters seem to have an opinion on the topic. All I have is what I've read, and so I'm not qualified to pontificate on the topic.

    From out there on the moon, international politics look so petty. You want to grab a politician by the scruff of the neck and drag him a quarter of a million miles out and say, ‘Look at that, you son of a bitch’.

    — Edgar Mitchell, Apollo 14 Astronaut



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    #149
    Grayson
    Registered Users Posts: 16,136 ✭✭✭✭Grayson


    bnt wrote: »
    Well, as a guy, my response to the OP's question is "how the hell would I know?"
    I've never spoken to a rapist about it, or personally felt the urge to rape, so I'm bemused how so many posters seem to have an opinion on the topic. All I have is what I've read, and so I'm not qualified to pontificate on the topic.

    everyone can pontificate. It's not like you're being asked for a precide opinion. the whole point of pontificating is to pretend that you know what you're talking about and then moralise it.

    Just like I did.


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    #150
    bodice ripper
    Registered Users Posts: 4,681 ✭✭✭bodice ripper


    BlimpGaz wrote: »
    Allow me to take a wild guess, female?

    never claimed otherwise.


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    #151
    honey83
    Closed Accounts Posts: 35 ✭honey83


    bodice ripper wrote: »
    I suspect this focus on power in rape is partly driven by the fact that the idea that it could be about overwhelming sex drive in men is just deeply unpalatable.

    I agree...and the abuse to women. Some men who are abusive to their partners will rape them as well. I think many of these men are mentally ill and abusive. Teaching our sons that no means no is also important.


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