The Fantastic Four (Reboot)

Necronomicon · 09-08-2015 12:09pm

I had no idea there was so much baggage surrounding this production (probably because of my spectacular disinterest in the concept of a F4 reboot). This video goes into detail:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0OZY_Eno8GE

It's a shame that the career of a promising young director could be in tatters, though he hasn't done himself any favours with his conduct. Publicly denouncing your own film on the eve of its release - will another studio touch him after that?

Snake Plisken · 09-08-2015 12:37pm

Just saw it after reading all the negative stuff regarding the production reviews etc and I think it's getting a bad rap, it's a hell of a lot better the last two Fantastic Four movies and I actually found this more entertaining then Ant Man! So it's dead in the water now but in time I think it will garner a "cult classic" status
It will be interesting to see what Fox do in 6-7 years time with it.

ps3lover · 09-08-2015 12:50pm

Apparently Fox have pulled Fantastic Four 2 and have put Deadpool 2 in its place.

Jon Stark · 09-08-2015 12:52pm

Necronomicon wrote: »

I had no idea there was so much baggage surrounding this production (probably because of my spectacular disinterest in the concept of a F4 reboot). This video goes into detail:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0OZY_Eno8GE

It's a shame that the career of a promising young director could be in tatters, though he hasn't done himself any favours with his conduct. Publicly denouncing your own film on the eve of its release - will another studio touch him after that?

If the rumours about his set conduct are accurate then he hasn't covered himself in glory either.

Nervous Wreck · 09-08-2015 1:38pm

ps3lover wrote: »

Apparently Fox have pulled Fantastic Four 2 and have put Deadpool 2 in its place.

If this is true, the execs at Fox are even stupider than they've been given credit for. Planning a sequel to a movie before it's released and having to sheepishly cancel it only days after the first movie's release is bad enough. Doing the exact same thing in the same brush, no matter how positive the expectations for Deadpool may be, is insane.

cloud493 · 09-08-2015 2:19pm

Apparently this has already bombed, so its not that surprising.

09-08-2015 3:45pm

The most damning thing out of all of this, excluding the reviews and the audience feedback, is the director coming out, pretty much before it is even released, and apologizing, saying it wasn't his fault.

Even Joel Schumacher took a while to apologize for Batman Forever.

Harry Palmr · 09-08-2015 3:57pm

cloud493 wrote: »

Apparently this has already bombed, so its not that surprising.

11 million est for the opening night in the States, which is about a third that a blockbuster success of this genre type would get while at the top end Avengers: Age of Ultron bagged 84m on its opening Friday

AMKC · 09-08-2015 4:02pm

I thought it was a silly idea to do a FF4 reboot and certainly will not be going to see this. Its been done already. Why do Hollywood do it again? Simple because they don,t seem to have any new or original idea,s anymore. Its all just about the money. Maybe this might teach them a bit.
I liked the original FF4 films and think they should have done an FF3 not a reboot.

ps3lover · 09-08-2015 5:49pm

Nervous Wreck wrote: »

If this is true, the execs at Fox are even stupider than they've been given credit for. Planning a sequel to a movie before it's released and having to sheepishly cancel it only days after the first movie's release is bad enough. Doing the exact same thing in the same brush, no matter how positive the expectations for Deadpool may be, is insane.

It could be worse, Paramount announced 2 sequels for Terminator Genisys. Although those sequels have more of a chance of happening than FF2.

Faith+1 · 09-08-2015 5:51pm

ps3lover wrote: »

It could be worse, Paramount announced 2 sequels for Terminator Genisys. Although those sequels have more of a chance of happening than FF2.

Mother of God! :eek:

FunLover18 · 09-08-2015 5:51pm

I don't think there's any question that this is a flawed film, and having seen it I wouldn't be surprised if this isn't the film Trank wanted to make (whatever the reasons may be, there's actually a very good article on the whole situation on EW).

There's a scene in the trailer clearly taken from one of The Thing's missions where we see him dropped from a helicopter. I suspect that that the words 'One Year Later' didn't appear in Trank's version and that were would have been a lot more time spent on the 4 getting used to their powers. As it is we get five minutes of the body horror he talked about during production. And where did he get the cloak!?!? You can tell where reshoots occurred because of Mara's wig so I'm sure it's only a matter of time before someone does a youtube video about that which might give us a better idea of what influence the studio had on the story.

I think there is potential for a good film in there somewhere but the problem is that this is the Fantastic Four. This film may have been much better without the pressure of that brand name upon it's shoulders, as I think Trank wanted to remake Chronicle with that added dimension of the powers involving a much more physical change. As mentioned previously there is little to know character development but the person who really suffers is Ben Grimm. He shows up for ten minutes at the start and doesn't reappear for an age and only because the brand name of FF requires him to do so. The potential conflict and drama that should arise from him not being a member of the original science team is never explored or developed and I honestly can't remember him speaking more than two or three lines to anyone who isn't Reed Richards. It's a shame because The Thing looks great

Doom is an absolute joke and his design is fúcking awful, he looks like a plastic doll, and his motivations are equally bad. The final confrontation is terrible, one of the worst I've seen in a superhero film. Has the Human Torch always had the ability to fly through solid rock?

johnny_ultimate · 09-08-2015 7:50pm

Announcing a sequel in advance of a first film's release serves various purposes. It allows them to plan ahead (franchises are planned years in advance now, so important to book a place on the calendar!), but also to build up hype. "There's a sequel coming, so obviously you can't miss the first one even if it's a bit naff!". Marvel use a variation of this trick, but embed it into the films themselves - there's always the tease of more - and bigger! - to come, to encourage audiences to keep on buying tickets.

Probably practical reasons too for planning ahead, like securing contracts with the cast. But basically it's a whole lot cheaper and easier to cancel a proposed film than it is to make one, so there's not much risk in announcing a sequel ahead of time.

Chris_Heilong · 09-08-2015 8:44pm

I thought it was going to be terrible based on all the reviews and spoiler reviews I had seen before hand but it was alright, was not terrible by any means.

Chris_Heilong · 09-08-2015 8:46pm

ps3lover wrote: »

It could be worse, Paramount announced 2 sequels for Terminator Genisys. Although those sequels have more of a chance of happening than FF2.

Hope so, terminator Genisys was a good movie or did the Internets opinion change since the first week it came out I have not been following it.

Gingervitis · 09-08-2015 11:31pm

Slightly off topic Sunday Times bashing, but Camilla Long gave it 3 stars this week. So that puts it level with Inside Out and better than Mission Impossible Rogue Nation. I thought Cosmo Landesman got a kick out of being contrary, but this?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0w6L93kD3xw

FunLover18 · 10-08-2015 12:25am

The Cinematic Universe Podcast have done a very good spoiler filled discussion about this, well worth a listen as 2 of the 3 guys on it were able to see the potential and would like to see a sequel. So it's not just a three way bashing, very good discussion.

Agent Coulson · 10-08-2015 9:37am

$26m opening weekend in the US.

I'd say they would have been hoping for double that at the very least.

Harry Palmr · 10-08-2015 11:10am

Its not even the No 1 film - MI 5 just kept it off the top by $3m

Sadly 'stupid' Russians and Chinese will make the film successful and so continue the "franchise".

Penn · 10-08-2015 2:10pm

I thought it was awful. Most of the cast were good, but were never given a chance to properly interact with each other and lead us to believe they actually liked each other.

Doom can seemingly do anything with his powers, including telekinesis and blowing people's heads up, two skills he never once tries to use against the FF which would easily defeat them. Instead he covers The Thing in rocks (because he's a genius), melts a guy who can stretch, and keeps trying to cracking through Sue's forcefield rather than flinging her into the death portal thing

The film was just badly put together, had maybe 1 joke in the entire film, and went the serious route while not really giving enough time to actually do anything serious.

syboit · 10-08-2015 2:45pm

Chris_Heilong wrote: »

I thought it was going to be terrible based on all the reviews and spoiler reviews I had seen before hand but it was alright, was not terrible by any means.

would agree, was expecting something awful, but I suppose Its a 5 out of 10 movie for me. I liked the first 40mins or so, and much preferred how they got their powers compared to the original movies.
Not good enough though to revisit the FF and x-men crossover idea's.

pmasterson95 · 10-08-2015 3:06pm

syboit wrote: »

would agree, was expecting something awful, but I suppose Its a 5 out of 10 movie for me. I liked the first 40mins or so, and much preferred how they got their powers compared to the original movies.
Not good enough though to revisit the FF and x-men crossover idea's.

They really wouldnt bring anything to the X-Men either.

syboit · 10-08-2015 3:14pm

pmasterson95 wrote: »

They really wouldnt bring anything to the X-Men either.

yup, x-men better off on their own. Regardless if the flic was "fantastic"

or not I always thought the FF would be better off incorporated into the mcu alongside the avengers.

Thargor · 10-08-2015 3:39pm

Their main problem with FF4 is that they're all throwbacks to the Golden Age and a bit irrelevant and twee now, look at them: Stretch-Man, Invisible Woman, Fire-Man etc. Same for all their enemies that nobody else in the MCU ever seems to run into, Dr. Doom, Dog-Man, Robo-Thug etc, lame lame lame.

pmasterson95 · 10-08-2015 3:42pm

syboit wrote: »

yup, x-men better off on their own. Regardless if the flic was "fantastic" or not I always thought the FF would be better off incorporated into the mcu alongside the avengers.

Their powers would be useful to the MCU but the X-Men can already do what they do and do it better.

Johnny is just basically a discount Sunspot/Sunfire/Sunpyre while Ben is a discount Colossus/Juggernaut.

Sue and Reed are possibly more useful but the telepathy/telekinesis of Xavier/Psylocke/Jean Grey still nullifies the need for them. Reeds intelligence is surpassed by Xavier/Beast so there is literally no reason to bring them in.

10-08-2015 4:14pm

pmasterson95 wrote: »

Reeds intelligence is surpassed by Xavier/Beast so there is literally no reason to bring them in.

No it's not

Nervous Wreck · 10-08-2015 5:43pm

pmasterson95 wrote: »

They really wouldnt bring anything to the X-Men either.

The X-Men universe is cluttered enough as it is with their soft reboots and fuzzy timelines. Adding FF would clutter it even more.

syboit wrote: »

yup, x-men better off on their own. Regardless if the flic was "fantastic" or not I always thought the FF would be better off incorporated into the mcu alongside the avengers.

I agree with this but, at this stage, were the rights to be sold back to Marvel, I would probably rather that they did a (high budget) Netflix mini-series than have them get another movie attempt straight off the bat.

Thargor wrote: »

Their main problem with FF4 is that they're all throwbacks to the Golden Age and a bit irrelevant and twee now, look at them: Stretch-Man, Invisible Woman, Fire-Man etc. Same for all their enemies that nobody else in the MCU ever seems to run into, Dr. Doom, Dog-Man, Robo-Thug etc, lame lame lame.

The same could be said of pretty much any of the existing MCU characters re: relevance. They've been brought into the modern setting and made to fit in. The problem with FF isn't that they don't fit the era, it's that the movie was badly done. The FF are more than comfortable in today's world in the comics. Just because no one's gotten them right on film doesn't mean it can't be done.

Also, Doctor Doom is easily one of the best villains in comics.

pmasterson95 wrote: »

Their powers would be useful to the MCU but the X-Men can already do what they do and do it better.

Johnny is just basically a discount Sunspot/Sunfire/Sunpyre while Ben is a discount Colossus/Juggernaut.

Sue and Reed are possibly more useful but the telepathy/telekinesis of Xavier/Psylocke/Jean Grey still nullifies the need for them. Reeds intelligence is surpassed by Xavier/Beast so there is literally no reason to bring them in.

Pretty much none of this is true. A lot of comic book characters can do similar things but that doesn't negate the need for any of them. There's a lot of hugely interesting things about the Fantastic Four that so far either haven't been explored at all or haven't been done nearly well enough. Things like Doom's jealousy of Richards for being with Sue (touched on but never explored really), Reed's guilt over what he's done to his best friend, Ben's guilt over his part in what happened to Doom, Reed's ego, Sue's weariness with her relationship with a man who cares more about science than he does about her (which, in fairness was done reasonably well in Rise of the Silver Surfer)

The interesting thing about the FF is that they're a dysfunctional super-family who also have to deal with the fame of being well known superheroes.

Also, this:

Deleted User wrote: »

No it's not

McLoughlin · 10-08-2015 5:48pm

I read an article over the weekend that stated that Fox would have to get permission for a Fantastic four and X Men crossover film as the film contract rights for Fantastic Four and X Men were signed at different times and are not related.

pmasterson95 · 10-08-2015 6:50pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

No it's not

I guess Wolverine was wrong during the "Death of Wolverine" you should contact Marvel.

Nervous Wreck wrote: »

The X-Men universe is cluttered enough as it is with their soft reboots and fuzzy timelines. Adding FF would clutter it even more.

Pretty much none of this is true. A lot of comic book characters can do similar things but that doesn't negate the need for any of them. There's a lot of hugely interesting things about the Fantastic Four that so far either haven't been explored at all or haven't been done nearly well enough. Things like Doom's jealousy of Richards for being with Sue (touched on but never explored really), Reed's guilt over what he's done to his best friend, Ben's guilt over his part in what happened to Doom, Reed's ego, Sue's weariness with her relationship with a man who cares more about science than he does about her (which, in fairness was done reasonably well in Rise of the Silver Surfer)

The interesting thing about the FF is that they're a dysfunctional super-family who also have to deal with the fame of being well known superheroes.

Also, this:

Well the timeline really doesnt confuse as many as people claim. Its really not that confusing especially if you follow comics which your post implies even if you dont its not very difficult for the average person.

Also worth contacting Marvel. Simply none of Johnny, Sue, Reed or Ben have ever featured on a mutant team in any capacity or any X-Book. They have however all spent time on Avengers teams & books. Thats just the simple facts. The 4 are more entwined with the Avengers than X-Men according to Marvel anyway.

Bacchus · 10-08-2015 7:21pm

Nervous Wreck wrote: »

I agree with this but, at this stage, were the rights to be sold back to Marvel, I would probably rather that they did a (high budget) Netflix mini-series than have them get another movie attempt straight off the bat.

Nice idea. I think ANOTHER reboot would be too much if Marvel got the rights back. Spiderman is barely getting away with it as the Spiderman movies have generally been well received and he's a fan favourite. To give the FF a TV show would be an interesting move and would sit nicely alongside AoS I think.

McLoughlin · 10-08-2015 7:28pm

Fantastic Four would work as a TV show as a sort of family drama/sitcom

FunLover18 · 10-08-2015 7:38pm

McLoughlin wrote:

Fantastic Four would work as a TV show as a sort of family drama/sitcom

I totally agree but it could also be too expensive with the cgi required.

Nervous Wreck · 10-08-2015 8:26pm

pmasterson95 wrote: »

Well the timeline really doesnt confuse as many as people claim. Its really not that confusing especially if you follow comics which your post implies even if you dont its not very difficult for the average person.

I didn't say confusing, I said cluttered. With the same characters appearing across different timelines, in different capacities, characters and stories being retconned and the latest movie essentially retconning the entire universe (apart from First Class), the whole X-Men universe is all over the place. Now, many of the leads are exiting and will no doubt be recast, this will lead to more clutter. At the moment, they're getting away with it but, as I said, adding FF to the mix wouldn't be a good idea; a point I think we agree on.

Nervous Wreck · 10-08-2015 8:56pm

Bacchus wrote: »

Nice idea. I think ANOTHER reboot would be too much if Marvel got the rights back. Spiderman is barely getting away with it as the Spiderman movies have generally been well received and he's a fan favourite. To give the FF a TV show would be an interesting move and would sit nicely alongside AoS I think.

Yep. The show could start with the FF already established (though low key and only beginning to come into their own) and touch on the origins through (limited) flashbacks. They could keep budget under control this way too, separating the VFX scenes out across several episodes.

Thargor · 10-08-2015 9:03pm

Ben's guilt over his part in what happened to Doom.

What do you mean by that Nervous?

Nervous Wreck · 10-08-2015 9:11pm

Thargor wrote: »

What do you mean by that Nervous?

There's a storyline that reveals that Ben messed with the machine that explodes, causing Von Doom's facial scarring and he feels guilty that he effectively created the monster that is Doctor Doom by causing his accident. Afaik, he never reveals this to any other character.

Thargor · 10-08-2015 9:12pm

Remember the Marvel Action Hour on Saturday mornings? That was an amazing cartoon, only time FF were ever good.

Nervous Wreck · 10-08-2015 9:23pm

Thargor wrote: »

Remember the Marvel Action Hour on Saturday mornings? That was an amazing cartoon, only time FF were ever good.

I don't remember that at all

I did hugely love the final season of Spider-Man, where they did te clone saga followed by Secret Wars. Doctor Doom was the main villain iirc!

10-08-2015 9:27pm

pmasterson95 wrote: »

I guess Wolverine was wrong during the "Death of Wolverine" you should contact Marvel.

Yeah I forgot about Wolverine's advanced degrees there, to make such a statement.

Reed is Scientist Supreme

10-08-2015 9:31pm

Thargor wrote: »

Remember the Marvel Action Hour on Saturday mornings? That was an amazing cartoon, only time FF were ever good.

Other side of the action hour was Hulk and/or Iron Man. Great times.

Didn't the F4 come up against the inHumans a few times there?

Thargor · 10-08-2015 9:33pm

Nervous Wreck wrote: »

I don't remember that at all I did hugely love the final season of Spider-Man, where they did te clone saga followed by Secret Wars. Doctor Doom was the main villain iirc!

It was season 2, season 1 of the MAH was like those horrible old spiderman cartoons from the 60s or whatever, season 2 came years later and they overhauled it to be more like Batman: TAS. The first half hour was Iron Man, the second was Fantastic 4, but instead of villain of the week it was a pretty dark plot arc about trying to stop Galactus, really well done.

brianregan09 · 10-08-2015 9:54pm

I don't think a TV show or Movie would be the right way to put them in , Say Marvel got the rights now ....

Infinity War is coming up and its 2 movies , They could easily introduce Silver Surfer 1st in the GOTG 2 or Ms Marvel Movie , Along the way you're going to have Civil War (already filmed so too late) and Spiderman , Black Panther (originally debuted in F4) I don't know

But I know you could fit them in somewhere without there own movie , I don't think there own TV show would be a good fit but maybe introduce the family in Agents of Shield , You could have Reed, Doom , Johnny and Ben all working as possible Shield Agents and then work it into one of the upcoming movies

Nervous Wreck · 10-08-2015 10:17pm

I think the problem with FF so far is that they've never been developed enough. A series would allow for that, in advance of introducing them into a movie. Hypothetically speaking, obviously

FunLover18 · 10-08-2015 11:21pm

A good article here on what was cut from the trailer and how it might have affected the final cut. I would love to see a director's cut at some stage but I doubt it will ever happen.

The Golden Miller · 11-08-2015 1:26am

Did Stan Lee pop up?

cloud493 · 11-08-2015 1:28am

The Golden Miller wrote: »

Did Stan Lee pop up?

Nope.

The Golden Miller · 11-08-2015 1:31am

cloud493 wrote: »

Nope.

That's odd. I always got the impression from interviews that the FF was his favorite creation after/on par with Spider-man

pmasterson95 · 11-08-2015 12:41pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Yeah I forgot about Wolverine's advanced degrees there, to make such a statement.

Reed is Scientist Supreme

When Wolverine was looking for a reason for his healing factor problem Reed wasn't his first port of call. Reeds no dunce but hes not definitely the smartest.

I guess Reed could now have inherited the title of Scientist Supreme as Pym is currently fused with Ultron and presumed dead.

11-08-2015 1:21pm

And other than your Wolverine choice there are dozens (more.. ) of examples, sites, blogs, YouTubes and articles countering you

The Fantastic Four (Reboot)

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