Irish-born British?

Hugo Drax wrote: »

Guess the brits forgot about the times he touted for them against his fellow countrymen when they decided to execute the rat-b*stard...

That was before they discovered democracy and became all anti-colonial. It had nothing to do with the threat of a german invasion.

Well he was already a traitor to Ireland when he betrayed members of the IRA to crown forces so he clearly had a propensity to treachery.

As i said, the brits obviously forgot his previous service to them.

He changed sides more often than the Italians!!

The usual debate with some of the gang who see everything with their green tinted glasses.

The whole British thing is rather unique, I think, since the Soviet Union went down. As a Soviet citizen you could be Russian, Ukranian, Georgian etc. So it is with Britain. So you can be Irish and British, but you could never be identified as English or Scottish or Welsh simply by moving there. There is no conflict with being British and Irish simultaneously. British simply covers the whole UK thing along with the remaining bits of colonies. You don't have to want to be British or feel British to be a British citizen. It's just the way things are. Most English, Scots, Welsh and a certain percentage of Irish across the border are happy enough to be called British but remain resolutely proud of their nationality. The same can be said of those Irish now living in Britain. Terry Wogan took British citizenship in part so he accept a knighthood and be called Sir. Geldof didn't so he isn't officially a 'Sir'. Both are quite proud to be Irish, no doubt.

Many Irish born but living in Britain see themselves as Irish and British. The likes of Graham Norton and Jimmy Carr for example. Jimmy Carr is quite frank about it. Wogan does call himself British. That is no insult to us Irish because frankly he is honouring the country to which he owes a very successful career.

Conversely even Loyalists recognise their Irishness. One loyalist, I remember. It could even be Gusty Spence, actually accepted an Irish passport because he needed to travel somewhere at short notice and his British one was delayed. Ian Paisley is on record admitting he is actually Irish. Most northerners will admit to that when pushed.

So it's not so simple.

Early on in the thread someone mentioned the Duke of Wellington comment. 'Being born does not make on a horse'. In fact he never said that. It was said of him by no less a personage than Daniel O'Connell and that is on record.

There is a tendency among certain people in this country to try and deny our close connection to Britain. Whether we like it or not, it's there. More, their purism leads to to practically condemm those Irish who embrace their Britishness as some form of traitor. As if Terry Wogan and others who have made their lives in Britain or grew up there have betrayed their Irish identity. Not to mention those in Northern Ireland. Equally they would deny the Irishness felt by many people born and brought up in Britain by Irish parents because of course their accent and culture is British and they never chose to 'come home' to this shambolic isle.

That's nonsense and demonstrates a very blinkered and immature attitude.
We do need to move on from that.

who the fug wrote: »

The point being that if he had gone on a US or Irish one, he would have got off.

The passport was the basis of the whole case against him, he very nearly got off

It doesn't seem to me that either the Americans or the Irish opposed him being hanged.

getz wrote: »

,he went to the irish embassy and said,;can i be irish, the irish ambassador Aamon kelly said,;your that bloke on telly, of course you can become a irish citizen were terribly short of people ,a bottle of whisky and a passport followed ,this is true

I seem to remember something about Charlie Chaplins granddaughter being born on a plane and being refused british citizenship and granted/claiming irish citizenship and not being able to get british citizenship.