DTT Commercial Multiplexes (was OneVision, Boxer etc...)

10000maniacs · 09-02-2010 10:26am

The Cush wrote: »

Today Tuesday 9th Feb is the 275th day of negotiations between OneVision and the BAI/RTÉ.

OneVision was awarded the licence on 11th May last year (Monday, 11 May 2009 to and including: Tuesday, 9 February 2010).

Boxer announced the withdrawal of its bid last April 20th on the 274th day (Monday, 21 July 2008 to and including: Monday, 20 April 2009).

I didn't expect the negotiations to last this long. Will they drag on to the end of March as the Minister said last Nov?

This may sound insane, but why don't they dump OneVision, let RTE run DTT, offer the Irish channels plus the BBCs , UTV (Which they can negotiate for free) and then organise a TopUp TV type scenario for extra channels. Its cheap and cheerful, and the TopUp part is not so dependent on a hugely successful business model.

endakenny · 20-02-2010 12:35am

One Vision will carry BBC, UTV and Channel 4 on a subscription basis. What is the point in signing up to OneVision when these channels are free-to-air on satellite?

Zonda999 · 20-02-2010 1:36am

The same could be said of chorus-ntl, they have these channels and you pay for them but they also come with a few premium channels that are not FTA. I assume Onevision would do the same

Biffo The Bare · 20-02-2010 1:41am

endakenny wrote: »

One Vision will carry BBC, UTV and Channel 4 on a subscription basis. What is the point in signing up to OneVision when these channels are free-to-air on satellite?

I for one can't wait for OneVision's sales pitch. You won't need the Comedy Channel, just watch the adverts.

FREETV · 20-02-2010 3:02am

Biffo The Bare wrote: »

I for one can't wait for OneVision's sales pitch. You won't need the Comedy Channel, just watch the adverts.

I agree, I think that they wouldn't last long if their service was launched. There wouldn't be much of an interest among the general public to pay for channels already available by FTA satellite, terrestrial overspill, Freesat or those who have already subscribed to UPC, Magnet or Sky for other premium channels to take them up on their service. They would be destined to failure and huge losses. There just isn't much of a market here in the country and the recession doesn't help matters either. What a farce! Have they not learned their history lesson from what happened with DTT in the UK?

_John C · 20-02-2010 3:16pm

The term "missed the boat" comes to mind here.This might have been a success about 8 years ago but it is too late now. Most people have Sky or Upc at this stage. This will be a failure and a huge waste of money.

10000maniacs · 20-02-2010 5:47pm

FREETV wrote: »

I agree, I think that they wouldn't last long if their service was launched. There wouldn't be much of an interest among the general public to pay for channels already available by FTA satellite, terrestrial overspill, Freesat or those who have already subscribed to UPC, Magnet or Sky for other premium channels to take them up on their service. They would be destined to failure and huge losses. There just isn't much of a market here in the country and the recession doesn't help matters either. What a farce! Have they not learned their history lesson from what happened with DTT in the UK?

Also, the market they will have to aim at is basically the people who have avoided Pay TV to this point in 4 channel land. What makes them think they will persuade these people to pay €15 to €20 P/M for stuff that is FTA and in some cases HD on satellite.

The Cush · 21-02-2010 10:51pm

Another month, another Board meeting.

BAI board to meet tomorrow
Sunday, February 21, 2010

The Broadcasting Authority of Ireland has said it expects its full board to attend its monthly meeting tomorrow. A legal difficulty had delayed the government’s official approval of four of the new members of the BAI board.

The four members are Larry Bass of Screentime Shinawil; Michael Moriarty, general secretary of the Irish Vocational Educational Authority; Colum Kenny, professor of communications and journalism in DCU; and producer Siobhán Ní Ghadhra. The full BAI board will discuss Digital Terrestrial Television, as protracted negotiations on the awarding of a licence to operate the commercial DTT platform continue.

Last week, the BAI said it would make funding of up to €25.5 million available for the production of new television and radio programmes over the next two years through the upgraded Sound and Vision scheme.

http://www.sbpost.ie/post/pages/p/story.aspx-qqqt=THE+INSIDE+TRACK-qqqs=mediaandmarketing-qqqid=47502-qqqx=1.asp

scath · 21-02-2010 11:06pm

The Cush wrote: »

Another month, another Board meeting.

A good, presumably their will be some indications over the next few days on how the BAI assess negotiations with Onevision. Presumably from Eircom's recent speakings following change of ownership it should be near sign-off. I'm sure the horse trading has been going on.

At this stage now it would be nice to hear that negotiations are almost complete & launch preparations are being discussed. At the moment its disappointing. I see Longford Tesco still no sign about Freeview availability not available. The quicker RTÉ publicise Saorview the better. I've no problem with them selling Freeview TVs if they said to people, look, just to let u know, u'll need a set top box in a few months time for DTT but the price differential will be worth buying now compared with a compatible TV price!

I guess its a good sign when sources aren't talking, usually they talk when there are difficulties to help things along

BoredNaMoaner · 22-02-2010 12:25am

I am amazed at how relentlessly positive Scath has been over the whole issue despite setback after setback. Pretty much all other users have been sniping at the dead deal for months now, but Scath possesses an optimism that is rare these days. Still, if Onevision doesn't get rolled out, at least one member of boards will have a proven track record for the post of Iraqi Information Minister...

No offense Scath!

10000maniacs · 22-02-2010 10:43am

BoredNaMoaner wrote: »

I am amazed at how relentlessly positive Scath has been over the whole issue despite setback after setback. Pretty much all other users have been sniping at the dead deal for months now, but Scath possesses an optimism that is rare these days. Still, if Onevision doesn't get rolled out, at least one member of boards will have a proven track record for the post of Iraqi Information Minister...

No offense Scath!

12 years after the UK version of Freeview launched we should be well up and running at this stage. They should be ashamed of themselves. I feel that they are getting license payers money under false pretences.

Elmo · 22-02-2010 11:26am

10000maniacs wrote: »

12 years after the UK version of Freeview launched we should be well up and running at this stage. They should be ashamed of themselves. I feel that they are getting license payers money under false pretences.

The licence fee has nothing to do with the role out of DTT. It doesn't just go towards RTÉ NL. Freeview did not start in 1998 it start a number of years after the colapse of On Digital, ITV Digital. RTÉ have been the only positive thing about this digitalization process. Seems to me that Government and the private sector are dragging their feet.

10000maniacs · 22-02-2010 2:08pm

Elmo wrote: »

Freeview did not start in 1998 it start a number of years after the colapse of On Digital, ITV Digital. RTÉ have been the only positive thing about this digitalization process. Seems to me that Government and the private sector are dragging their feet.

It wasn't called Freeview then, but if you bought an OnDigital box in 1998 without a card, this was your lineup (All Free to View):
1 BBC One
2 BBC Two
3 ITV Regional ITV station
4 Channel 4 (except Wales)
4 S4C (Wales only)
5 Channel 5
6 ITV2
7 BBC Choice
8 TeleG (Scotland only, was Channel 4 in Wales)
8 Channel 4 (Wales only)
9 Teletext
10 BBC Knowledge
11 BBC News 24
12 Childrens BBC
13 S4C2 Wales only
14 Shop

Elmo · 22-02-2010 4:48pm

10000maniacs wrote: »

It wasn't called Freeview then, but if you bought an OnDigital box in 1998 without a card, this was your lineup (All Free to View):
1 BBC One
2 BBC Two
3 ITV Regional ITV station
4 Channel 4 (except Wales)
4 S4C (Wales only)
5 Channel 5
6 ITV2
7 BBC Choice
8 TeleG (Scotland only, was Channel 4 in Wales)
8 Channel 4 (Wales only)
9 Teletext
10 BBC Knowledge
11 BBC News 24
12 Childrens BBC
13 S4C2 Wales only
14 Shop

1. RTE 1
2. RTE 2 (Including The Den)
3. TV3
4. TG4 (Including Cula 4)
5. RTE NEWS NOW
6. 3E
7. Setanta Sports
8. Local TV (aka City Channel)
9. Community TV (CCTV, DCTV)
10. RTE 1 +1 including OTV

I believe if Setanta were interested it could happen tomorrow.

SPDUB · 22-02-2010 6:22pm

Elmo wrote: »

5. RTE NEWS NOW
6. 3E
7. Setanta Sports
8. Local TV (aka City Channel)
9. Community TV (CCTV, DCTV)
10. RTE 1 +1 including OTV

I believe if Setanta were interested it could happen tomorrow.

I'm going to rush out tomorrow and buy a FTA box for that line up of channels:rolleyes::rolleyes:

Elmo · 22-02-2010 6:47pm

SPDUB wrote: »

I'm going to rush out tomorrow and buy a FTA box for that line up of channels:rolleyes::rolleyes:

Ok well lets make it better so

5. EuroNews
6. Virgin 1
7. Extreme Sports
8. Sky 3
9. QVC
10. BBC Parliament
:rolleyes:

The people most effected by this are those who choose not to get Pay TV, so they will bare the brunt of DSO when it does happen the possibly won't even care if they are still only getting 4 channels.

SPDUB · 22-02-2010 6:53pm

Elmo wrote: »

... so they will bare the brunt of DSO when it does happen the possibly won't even care if they are still only getting 4 channels.

They will if you make them pay €40 or €50 or possibly more to get the exact same channels they are getting now

Elmo · 22-02-2010 7:18pm

SPDUB wrote: »

They will if you make them pay €40 or €50 or possibly more to get the exact same channels they are getting now

Happened in Sweden one of the only reasons that Boxer were successful was the fact that the Swedish government pulled the plug on analogue. They would also be getting improved better reception hopeful. Its not just about multiple channels.

My parents never got cable or put up an aerial and they live in Dublin they just aren't all that interested. There are many people with children who feel the same way and don't bother with extra channels and don't go looking for them, if they did get digital they would be happy with the reception but outside of that they wouldn't be overly interested in new or existing relays of foreign TV.

Regardless of One Vision or of extra channels they aren't going to be sold on extra channels even if they are free.

Antenna · 22-02-2010 8:30pm

Elmo wrote: »

7. Setanta Sports
8. Local TV (aka City Channel)
9. Community TV (CCTV, DCTV)

Do these have the funds to pay to go on FTA DTT?

No one here has speculated how much would it cost them (which would be enormous)?

These groups wouldn't have the money?

Elmo · 22-02-2010 8:34pm

Antenna wrote: »

Do these have the funds to pay to go on FTA DTT?

No one here has speculated how much would it cost them (which would be enormous)?

These groups wouldn't have the money?

Its called a business plan just as much as foreign TV would have to do.

Community TV could be provided for free. I don't know how the Community Channel works in the UK http://www.communitychannel.org/ City Channel have big investors they may think FTA is a suitable option and increase funding. and the same goes for Setanta.

Does UKTV, Virgin etc have to funds to go on DTT FTA in ROI?

SPDUB · 22-02-2010 8:40pm

Elmo wrote: »

Happened in Sweden one of the only reasons that Boxer were successful was the fact that the Swedish government pulled the plug on analogue. They would also be getting improved better reception hopeful.

How many times have the swedish government have had massive opposition to doing the smallest thing about anything

Remember a Govt fall here because of a tax on children shoes

Any opposition here whether it's FF or FG or any other party could kick up merry hell saying they are getting rid of one of the only comforts the elderly or poor have

Look how much opposition there has been to cutting the drink drive limits and possibly saving lifes because it's said it's a comfort to some people .

No wonder the Govt has given itself an out by making the cut off date 2015 if it needs it to be that late

As for reception improvement there's a fair number of people happy with the reception they get at the moment .

scath · 22-02-2010 9:20pm

, na, I've a sense of humour, I don't take things personal, unless someone says I'm an ass****. And I give little reason for people to say that. I mean if someone criticises me, I try to see their point instead of taking offence. Cos they may have a point. Learning is more important to me than being right. So I should go far haha.

'The Iraqi Information MInister' hahahah.....love that one:D

But, yea, I'm being optimistic. I usually find it helpful in the times we live in to be positive, as nowt got from getting annoyed and griping. But the good is being taken out of things by the drag in the project's commercial DTT implementation. Momentum is lost. Dynamic is lost. Mind u as each month passes, it does give Onevision's backers more time to assess the economic situation into which they would be launching. As each moment passes it makes at least for the boxes T2 more likely. But as has been said the spec is there and I promised to stop about it, so I will right now shht myself hehe..

But hopefully we'll hear something resulting from today's BAI meeting about Thursday or Friday, or Saturday I suppose.

Eircom seem keen on the triple play especially under the new owners so that's what makes me thing they'll sign, just they probably are holding out for the best deal, seeing who'll break first & come down figureswise...both BAI and RTÉ NL.

I hope that Minister Ryan has re-engaged the stakeholders regarding the BBC channels because it only helps satellite if they're going to charged for, at least in the short term til Freesat go ahead with encyption that could lock out the ROI satellite co-ordinates from tuning if that is ever planned.

Anyhow we'll just have to wait and see now, yet again, its a waiting game, wait and wait and zzzzzz, woh, and then after some time, a blast from the past, wow, did something actually happen lol, it'll be such a suprise we'll nearly not believe its actually launching. Well in Ireland that's how some things work!

10000maniacs wrote: »

12 years after the UK version of Freeview launched we should be well up and running at this stage. They should be ashamed of themselves. I feel that they are getting license payers money under false pretences.

Apogee · 22-02-2010 9:34pm

scath wrote: »

at least in the short term til Freesat go ahead with encyption that could lock out the ROI satellite co-ordinates from tuning if that is ever planned.

Where do you get this stuff? When have Freesat ever mentioned anything about geo-locking their boxes either in the short-, medium- or long-term?

Elmo · 22-02-2010 9:51pm

SPDUB wrote: »

Remember a Govt fall here because of a tax on children shoes

Any opposition here whether it's FF or FG or any other party could kick up merry hell saying they are getting rid of one of the only comforts the elderly or poor have

TBH VAT on children's clothes is more important and FF governments don't generally fall because of small issues, FF twist the knife and topple other governments because unfortunately they aren't as good at the political game.

We can even go back to the first Inter party government when Noel Browne want to introduce a Mother and Child Scheme, the taoiseach at the time told him to talk to the Church - which he did and they were happy enough, but FG taoiseach said "no". Not trusting his CnaP Minister (not the most catholic party), Noel Browne ignores the Taoiseach and introduces the scheme and enter FF who in opposition move to get rid of the government through this "scandal". The next year a FF government introduces a very well laid out Mother and Child Scheme.

scath · 22-02-2010 9:52pm

Apogee wrote: »

Where do you get this stuff? When have Freesat ever mentioned anything about geo-locking their boxes either in the short-, medium- or long-term?

Is Diffie-Hellman encryption not planned for Freesat so that only Freesat approved boxes can be sold thus messing up any ROI Freesat STB operation. As regards a FTA card, my error there...I've a flu at the mo so....lol..

To be honest, it was suggested by a friend of mine to me, that they could if they wanted do this to protect Sky and UPC in the ROI. But I don't know so I just put out the point as something that can be done. But it might never be, ie be justified stb wise, economics etc...

Otherwise, the Onevision plan to charge for BBC makes no sense, better to offer it free on DTT and promote subscription channels instead. There will surely be takers for Sky sports etc who don't want to be bothered with a satellite dish. Numbers is the problem, the viability

What are ya talking about Daffy Duck lol....I'm too tired to find the link (flu) but I did see its mention in regards to Sat4Free and that D-H encryption was designed to close off any such operator. Anyhow for now lets assume it'll be good into the future ie I mean no change, which brings us back to the senselessness of charing for BBC that are available on FTA sat freely after installation. I don't think its fair & well if people find out won't the Onevision business plan be screwed? I mean isn't such a plan of charging for it, setting oneself up for failure.

Apogee · 22-02-2010 10:01pm

scath wrote: »

Is Diffie-Hellman encryption not planned for Freesat so that people will be tied into Freesat only boxes requiring a FTA card?

No, it's Daffy Duck-Mickey Mouse encryption they'll be using.

FFS, it's Freesat - the hint is in the name. God knows what a FTA card is.

Elmo · 22-02-2010 10:06pm

Apogee wrote: »

No, it's Daffy Duck-Mickey Mouse encryption they'll be using.

FFS, it's Freesat - the hint is in the name. God knows what a FTA card is.

A FTV card?

10000maniacs · 22-02-2010 10:18pm

Elmo wrote: »

1. RTE 1
2. RTE 2 (Including The Den)
3. TV3
4. TG4 (Including Cula 4)
5. RTE NEWS NOW
6. 3E
7. Setanta Sports
8. Local TV (aka City Channel)
9. Community TV (CCTV, DCTV)
10. RTE 1 +1 including OTV

I believe if Setanta were interested it could happen tomorrow.

Elmo, This is your rebuke to my claim that a "Freeview" service was operating in Britain as far back as 1998?:eek:
Whats the meaning of your reply, its just a list of channels Elmo.:D

SPDUB · 22-02-2010 10:29pm

Elmo wrote: »

TBH VAT on children's clothes is more important

And there was a lot more important things that Govt could have fallen over .In the scheme of things it fell over a relatively minor issue .

Elmo wrote: »

and FF governments don't generally fall because of small issues, FF twist the knife and topple other governments because unfortunately they aren't as good at the political game. We can even go back to the first Inter party government when Noel Browne want to introduce a Mother and Child Scheme, the taoiseach at the time told him to talk to the Church - which he did and they were happy enough, but FG taoiseach said "no". Not trusting his CnaP Minister (not the most catholic party), Noel Browne ignores the Taoiseach and introduces the scheme and enter FF who in opposition move to get rid of the government through this "scandal". The next year a FF government introduces a very well laid out Mother and Child Scheme.

And who's probably going to be in opposition in 2012 and blame the current Govt of that time

scath · 22-02-2010 10:45pm

Apogee wrote: »

No, it's Daffy Duck-Mickey Mouse encryption they'll be using.

FFS, it's Freesat - the hint is in the name. God knows what a FTA card is.

smarty pants heheh....

Daffy duck-mickey Mouse encryption. What sort of encryption is that? The generous dripping dollop of sarcasm hahahahah:D

there's abit of an edge to your posts I notice...valid points you make though, I think u get exacerbated with suggestion of possibilities you think are unlikely. You probably think I talk through me a*** at times

But nowt to take to seriously. I always think possibilities are worth considering, even if unlikely. I think more outside the box thinking would do the country good at the moment, rather than more of the same failed economic strategies.

PS, I like Elmo's line-up of channels. But I'm not keen on RTÉ+1. I'd prefer to see RTÉ Archive in the evening after RTÉ2 & move some of the RTÉ2 programming of the evening time to TG4. I think its better to make TG4 strong as possible, as its best chance to make good Irish programming. In place of channel 10 I'd like to see HOTO (OTV) and I'd prefer to see the Irish Film Channel take over from France 24 on a timeshare basis with TG4. I think Community TV and Local TV should get DTT National spectrum. Its what DTT has to be all about and also nationally available local radio stations. I think RTÉ's 2nd Mux will be used for HD.One of Onevision's muxes could be used for News Channels, the other 2 for sports & HD. I don't see how there'll be room for channels live Dave etc...until after ASO. Chances are Onevision will instead leave HD wait and have such channels instead and the 4th mux would be for HD.

DTT Commercial Multiplexes (was OneVision, Boxer etc...)

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