Terminally ill 16-year-old takes his anti-suicide campaign to RTE

FLCL · 06-04-2013 1:43am #1

Saw this article on independent.ie earlier and was frankly a little disturbed, http://www.independent.ie/entertainment/terminally-ill-16yearold-takes-his-antisuicide-campaign-to-rte-29176645.html (Not sure if linking is allowed mod?)

To summarize, this guy is terminally ill and feels "anger" towards young people who commit suicide or are considering it. As someone with a family member suffering depression, I find this kind of message he's giving out quite unhelpful (despite his good intentions) and demonstrates a complete lack of understanding (by HSE and RTE for allowing this to go out tomorrow) of the complexity of mental illness, depression and suicide.

It reminds me of the "ahh sure cop on to yourself, there's always someone worse off" treatment. If you present yourself to a doctor/counselor/psychologist with depression they will not start off by telling you how there's starving children in Bolivia so get over your depression, and I am highly skeptical as to the benefits of a terminally ill boy's opinions and criticisms of an illness - the treatment of which he likely knows nothing about, on national TV will do.

Lines like this particularly grind my gears: "I feel angry that these people choose to take their lives, to ruin their families and to leave behind a mess that no one can clean up," he added.

Any thoughts / opinions?

Bipolar Joe · 06-04-2013 1:45am

FLCL is a great show, recommend it before you top yourself.

06-04-2013 1:45am

Being terminally ill doesn't mean that someone can't still be an unempathetic ass. And most 16 year olds are unempathetics asses.

Wacker The Attacker · 06-04-2013 1:46am

I think he's a little naive

Ihatecuddles-old · 06-04-2013 1:48am

I think he's young and life has been unfair to him. He's speaking about something he doesn't fully understand.

I'm sure it will hurt a lot of people, to learn of this boy's situation and how he views suicide. I think everyone knows someone who's taken their own life.

LizT · 06-04-2013 1:52am

I think it's an incredibly naive view to take. I can see why he thinks like that, it must be horrendous (to say the least) to be diagnosed with a terminal illness so young. It doesn't mean he should be able to judge those who think about committing suicide, it stigmatizes mental health issues even more.

VanishingActs · 06-04-2013 1:52am

I had a friend who got cancer at 15 and she had this attitude towards suicide, despite the fact that she had been suicidal due to depression before she got ill. I can absolutely understood having your view of life changed due to something as life altering as cancer but it made me sad to see her lose sympathy for people she used to very much relate to.

She passed away at 17 and I think she had every right to be angry that other people got to keep living, but it just saddened me that she acted like that towards people who were also struggling with illnesses- a mental illness is just as real as cancer.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 06-04-2013 1:52am

Still a bit crude, though. Perhaps someone should sit him down and talk to him about the causes of suicide and what it's actually like to be depressed or isolated (the later being something, I'm assuming, he has never experienced).

WOCM4 · 06-04-2013 1:53am

My sympathy for the man , but he does not have carte blanche to dictate the 'right' opinion.

WOCM4 · 06-04-2013 1:56am

Also FUK RTE and their agenda.

tvnutz · 06-04-2013 1:57am

Ihatecuddles wrote: »

I think he's young and life has been unfair to him. He's speaking about something he doesn't fully understand.

I'm sure it will hurt a lot of people, to learn of this boy's situation and how he views suicide. I think everyone knows someone who's taken their own life.

True,its more RTE's fault for giving him the platform to do this when they should know better, he is just a kid who has been dealt a ****ty hand in life and this has resulted in ill informed views on the subject.

Ten of Swords · 06-04-2013 1:57am

Ihatecuddles wrote: »

He's speaking about something he doesn't fully understand.

He is angry at his own situation and it has distorted his perspective imo. His comments show a complete lack of empathy towards those feeling at their lowest point, "if they slept on it or looked for help they could find a solution". Remarks like that are obviously well intentioned but unhelpful and would likely be counter productive to anyone feeling desperate enough to consider suicide.

Ihatecuddles-old · 06-04-2013 1:59am

tvnutz wrote: »

True,its more RTE's fault for giving him the platform to do this when they should know better, he is just a kid who has been dealt a ****ty hand in life and this has resulted in ill informed views on the subject.

Couldn't agree more. It will be an interesting show. Some of the comments after the article are awful.

One person compared him to people who 'just give up'.

jank · 06-04-2013 2:00am

I suppose he is presenting the tough love approach which doesn't go down too well with many in this over sensitive society. If he makes one person sit up and take notice that life isn't all that bad which stops them taking their own life then what is the harm in that?

Ten of Swords · 06-04-2013 2:02am

Ihatecuddles wrote: »

One person compared him to people who 'just give up'.

That comment was disgraceful, I wonder what it's original content was considering it has already been edited by the moderator

LizT · 06-04-2013 2:03am

jank wrote: »

I suppose he is presenting the tough love approach which doesn't go down too well with many in this over sensitive society. If he makes one person sit up and take notice that life isn't all that bad which stops them taking their own life then what is the harm in that?

Tough love is not a treatment for clinical depression.

December2012 · 06-04-2013 2:03am

He's not saying depression isn't real or treatable. The answer which a lot of children take is to commit suicide. It's an extreme action to take.
and it's not necessary.

Ihatecuddles-old · 06-04-2013 2:04am

jank wrote: »

I suppose he is presenting the tough love approach which doesn't go down too well with many in this over sensitive society. If he makes one person sit up and take notice that life isn't all that bad which stops them taking their own life then what is the harm in that?

Suicidal thoughts are not going to go away by a 16 year old telling you to cop on.

December2012 · 06-04-2013 2:05am

And can you imagine being 16 and preparing your family for death like this brave child is doing?

nervous_twitch · 06-04-2013 2:06am

jank wrote: »

If he makes one person sit up and take notice that life isn't all that bad which stops them taking their own life then what is the harm in that?

I can nearly guarantee you that anyone genuinely struggling with depression is not going to 'sit up and take notice that life isn't all that bad.'

Turtwig · 06-04-2013 2:06am

His situation is horrible, but somebody needs to explain to him that some people go through a life longer than his and suffer far far more. Sometimes needlessly too and his type of argument or "campaign" will only serve to increase that number of people. Episodes like this demonstrate that we have a very long way to go towards dealing with mental health issues.

December2012 · 06-04-2013 2:06am

Ihatecuddles wrote: »

Suicidal thoughts are not going to go away by a 16 year old telling you to cop on.

Which is probably why he doesn't say it - he says there are other options.

Which there are.

WOCM4 · 06-04-2013 2:08am

If ONLY life was that simple.

I used to think like this chap. When I was 16.

Life cant hurt you in such a manner of ways unknown to most teens.

He has more balls and dignity than me but still...

06-04-2013 2:09am

jank wrote: »

I suppose he is presenting the tough love approach which doesn't go down too well with many in this over sensitive society. If he makes one person sit up and take notice that life isn't all that bad which stops them taking their own life then what is the harm in that?

How's your psychology Masters going?

ForeverYoung90 · 06-04-2013 2:12am

December2012 wrote: »

Which is probably why he doesn't say it - he says there are other options.

Which there are.

Exactly he is not saying to simply "cop on",all these posters are being smart asses calling this dying young boy naive.Bigging themselves up they are.He is saying that if you are feeling depressed that you should turn to someone for help and not take the rash option.Read the full article before posting please.

KuriousOranj · 06-04-2013 2:13am

Naive in the extreme,as is to be expected from a lad of his age.Should never have been given a platform to express his ill thought out views.

Desperate stuff from RTE,as usual.

WOCM4 · 06-04-2013 2:13am

Reminds me of some study I read/saw/made up;

Researchers asked a bunch of octogenarians if they could would they live life all over again?

I think it was 15% said yes.

The rest welcomed the end and they had defiantly had enough and no way would they do it again.

Its a funny old game.

ForeverYoung90 · 06-04-2013 2:15am

WOCM4 wrote: »

Reminds me of some study I read/saw/made up;

Researchers asked a bunch of octogenarians if they could would they live life all over again?

I think it was 15% said yes.

The rest welcomed the end and they had defiantly had enough and no way would they do it again.

Its a funny old game.

octogenarians
Noun:
A person who is from 80 to 89 years old.:cool: cheers google

KuriousOranj · 06-04-2013 2:19am

ForeverYoung90 wrote: »

Exactly he is not saying to simply "cop on",all these posters are being smart asses calling this dying young boy naive.Bigging themselves up they are.He is saying that if you are feeling depressed that you should turn to someone for help and not take the rash option.Read the full article before posting please.

So he thinks people that commit suicide don't think they can turn to family/friends for help?Of course they know they can,I knew I could when I slashed my wrists 3 years ago.People who commit suicide are at such a low ebb that they don't think they're life is worth anything,and that they shouldn't bother making themselves more of a burden on friends and family.Of course this lad is being naive.

jank · 06-04-2013 2:20am

LizT wrote: »

Tough love is not a treatment for clinical depression.

There is no silver bullet out there for depression.

jank · 06-04-2013 2:21am

nervous_twitch wrote: »

I can nearly guarantee you that anyone genuinely struggling with depression is not going to 'sit up and take notice that life isn't all that bad.'

No you cannot.

WOCM4 · 06-04-2013 2:22am

KuriousOranj wrote: »

So he thinks people that commit suicide don't think they can turn to family/friends for help?Of course they know they can,I knew I could when I slashed my wrists 3 years ago.People who commit suicide are at such a low ebb that they don't think they're life is worth anything,and that they shouldn't bother making themselves more of a burden on friends and family.Of course this lad is being naive.

Fair play , thank you for sharing that. Probably the most sense in the whole thread. All the best.

saram · 06-04-2013 2:22am

Call him naive- Call me naive but..

You know what? Fair play to him..
Depression is an illness that requires the ultimate care and sensitivity. There is no question about that..

But- the key point here is-
Suicide doesn't have to be the only option. If one or two people who watch this show or read his story in the midst of their depression-- can say- I ll try to give it a proper go ( get back to life, however hard that will be) then that is mission accomplished.

Lets wait and see the full story or his appearance on TV before we all go off saying-- how dare you talk about depression and suicide as if you are a know it all.
I'm pretty sure he won't be coming across as smug or wrong or completely naive in his assessment. He has been doing great work across the community in different areas and communities need that help now more than ever.

A bit of raw emotion might be just what we all need regarding depression and suicide. These things are always spoken about in hushed tones. Swept under the carpet.. etc

It's the hush, hush (we ll never know the real story) attitude that's a bigger problem than a boy with a terminal illness coming out and saying--- hey, no matter how desperate things are right now.. There is surely a better way to go than commit suicide.
Is it wrong of someone to ask people who in the throes of depression, isolation and loneliness to seek help, and try to find a way out??

See, suddenly it doesn't look so bad of him now does it.
Lets judge tomorrow night and see how naive and cold or selfish he really is

Turtwig · 06-04-2013 2:24am

jank wrote: »

No you cannot.

Actually he can. Depression, is that thing where saying stuff like "Ohh look how beautiful that sky is" makes absolutely no difference. Most depressives are just going to shrug this guy off as not understanding them or worse using it as an excuse to rationalise that sense of burdening they have and thus exacerbate their condition.

jank · 06-04-2013 2:24am

Deleted User wrote: »

How's your psychology Masters going?

One must be qualified to comment now? So that excludes 99% of boards.ie users so including yourself I'd imagine.

WOCM4 · 06-04-2013 2:25am

saram wrote: »

Lets judge tomorrow night and see how naive and cold or selfish he really is

No one is calling him that, Heart in the right place and all ....but...his logic is wrong.

Tearwave · 06-04-2013 2:27am

ForeverYoung90 wrote: »

Exactly he is not saying to simply "cop on",all these posters are being smart asses calling this dying young boy naive.Bigging themselves up they are.He is saying that if you are feeling depressed that you should turn to someone for help and not take the rash option.Read the full article before posting please.

I have read the full article, even quoted a section of it from the op. His language and tone coincide with someone who has limited knowledge of the illness. It will be interesting how he handles the interview (and probably cringeworthy waiting on Brendan O Connor to feck it up somehow.)

end of the road · 06-04-2013 2:29am

jank wrote: »

I suppose he is presenting the tough love approach which doesn't go down too well with many in this over sensitive society.

for a start, theirs no "over sensitive society" in relation to an issue like this, i've never heard of the "tough love approach" having any effect in relation to this issue either.

jank wrote: »

If he makes one person sit up and take notice that life isn't all that bad which stops them taking their own life then what is the harm in that?

the harm is he's talking about something he knows nothing about by the sounds of it and i have a feeling his approach will do more harm then good

Ten of Swords · 06-04-2013 2:31am

The guy is trying to do something positive with his remaining time and that's commendable but RTE will no doubt sensationalise this interview and whatever good could come out of it will probably be lost in the process.

Frito · 06-04-2013 2:31am

Ihatecuddles wrote: »

I think he's young and life has been unfair to him. He's speaking about something he doesn't fully understand.

Spot on.

WOCM4 · 06-04-2013 2:33am

Jank, have you ever been very down?

I bloody well have.

I suspect you aint.

Also , post 31 is nit picking.

jank · 06-04-2013 2:38am

Jernal wrote: »

Actually he can. Depression, is that thing where saying stuff like "Ohh look how beautiful that sky is" makes absolutely no difference. Most depressives are just going to shrug this guy off as not understanding them or worse using it as an excuse to rationalise that sense of burdening they have and thus exacerbate their condition.

Yes most will, I never said it would be cure all. What I did say is that if it makes one person sit up an take notice then it's worthwhile, unlike nervous twitch said that he can guarantee that nobody will do that which is an absurd claim to make.

stevenmu · 06-04-2013 2:40am

I think that when someone has their choice between life and death taken away, that the only option they have is death, they have a right to be a little critical of people who choose death over life.

That doesn't diminish depression in any way, or ignore how tough it is. But when somebody who really wants to live can't, it's easy to see how they could be critical of people who can live but choose not to.

Turtwig · 06-04-2013 2:41am

jank wrote: »

Yes most will, I never said it would be cure all. What I did say is that if it makes one person sit up an take notice then it's worthwhile, unlike nervous twitch said that he can guarantee that nobody will do that which is an absurd claim to make.

If it makes one person sit up and take notice is only worth if it if doesn't make two people hide deeper in the shadows.

Also, it was only a figure of speech, if your intention is to be that pedantic on After Hours then I do truly wish you the very best of luck.

WOCM4 · 06-04-2013 2:42am

stevenmu wrote: »

I think that when someone has their choice between life and death taken away, that the only option they have is death, they have a right to be a little critical of people who choose death over life.

That doesn't diminish depression in any way, or ignore how tough it is. But when somebody who really wants to live can't, it's easy to see how they could be critical of people who can live but choose not to.

See, that why I come back to boards, I read something now and then that makes me think and bit and accept another opinion to an extent. Thanks Steve.

06-04-2013 2:43am

jank wrote: »

One must be qualified to comment now?

Where did you read that?

LizT · 06-04-2013 2:43am

jank wrote: »

There is no silver bullet out there for depression.

There sure isn't.

Tough love or telling someone to snap out of it is condescending though and shows a real lack of understanding of the condition.

Pappa Charlie · 06-04-2013 2:44am

I've flicked through the posts so sorry if I haven't taken everyone's opinion on board, I'm a garda and I've attended too many suicides than I care to admit to, they have varied in senario. I can relate like everyone else to the devastation. But I can see how a young man desperate to hold onto life can have the opinion that he does, I don't think that that should be denied to him. He may not have a full grasp of depression and how someone can be suicidal. He has the right to question it. The question is could his message help prevent suicide and I think I could possibly save some people who might think twice. But as a garda I bemoan the lack of services available to people in real distress, the state fails many and its glossed over sometimes with a cheap advertising campaign! In the meantime people die!

Ten of Swords · 06-04-2013 2:46am

stevenmu wrote: »

I think that when someone has their choice between life and death taken away, that the only option they have is death, they have a right to be a little critical of people who choose death over life.

That doesn't diminish depression in any way, or ignore how tough it is. But when somebody who really wants to live can't, it's easy to see how they could be critical of people who can live but choose not to.

I don't agree with this. People who have had their choice taken away do not understand the circumstances and experiences it takes to get you to a place where you would consider choosing death.

Their criticisms of people considering suicide will probably be borne of resentment and bitterness or anger, not a real understanding of the situation, and I don't think that can be helpful or make anyone feeling suicidal sit up and take notice.

jank · 06-04-2013 2:48am

LizT wrote: »

There sure isn't.

Tough love or telling someone to snap out of it is condescending though and shows a real lack of understanding of the condition.

I never said it was the only approach! It is one of many. Being all sensitive and caring doesn't work in all circumstances either.

Duggy747 · 06-04-2013 2:49am

Nothing pisses off a person more than being told their depression is "just a phase", "get over it", "there's people worse off than you"

As for this kid, his heart is in the right place but his logic (understandably distorted by the hand life has dealt him / being 16 years old) is twisted and something that shouldn't be given a platform on national TV if it's going to perpetuate more misinformation to the public about depression.

Way too many factors involved in suicide and depression that can't be boiled down like that.

People have enough trouble grasping the idea of mental illnesses as it is.

Terminally ill 16-year-old takes his anti-suicide campaign to RTE

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