*Everything HPAT and Medicine 2012*

I believe a there will be a points raise of 15-20 points this year for each college. So the the cut off will probably around 745-750 for galyway and 755-760 for trinity.

I know yeah of course, I'l be happy to get it anywhere I am just trying to get the preference order sorted
Does anyone know what the hours are like per week in general with medicine? I mean in the first couple of years of course!!

NoHarm1994 wrote: »

I know yeah of course, I'l be happy to get it anywhere I am just trying to get the preference order sorted
Does anyone know what the hours are like per week in general with medicine? I mean in the first couple of years of course!!

40 hours

Hahah sounds fun! Ah sure studying is all Iv known the last two years so it shouldn't be much of a shock Looking forward to it, fingers crossed the Hpat went to plan now ha-ha :S

Anyone else nervous about results day yet?? Sometimes I forget about all this HPAT stuff, and then it comes back to me like a smack across the face! Every time I think about the 25th April it makes me so nervous, even though I can't do anything about it. I think maybe that's what's worst: the feeling of powerlessness. Scary how one 2 and half hour exam determines so much...

All the best to y'all anyway

Patri wrote: »

spasmaster wrote: »

I believe a there will be a points raise of 15-20 points this year for each college. So the the cut off will probably around 745-750 for galyway and 755-760 for trinity.

Based on what? It's fairly hard to predict the rise this year because of the extra twenty five points for maths, it'll be interesting to see what the points are though!

Well, hpat scores go up by 10 each year and there will be extra 5 for maths now.

Lads at the end of the day Hpat results need to be forgotten about for the next month! Just give the L.C. beans until the 25th haha

spasmaster wrote: »

I believe a there will be a points raise of 15-20 points this year for each college. So the the cut off will probably around 745-750 for galyway and 755-760 for trinity.

While I'd tend to agree it's been increasing every year, last year the HPAT scores were considerably inflated. With the addition of the extra points for honours maths it could be possible that the HPAT score drops by a few points this year. Remember that last year the colleges had to bring down their points requirements second round to get people into the course. While I wouldn't be surprised at them increasing the overall points I think it may not make a difference as they'll probably come right back down second round.

finality wrote: »

Er....there was no second round for any medicine course in the country last year, as far as I'm aware. And the colleges have nothing to do with the points going up or down.

I might have been wrong to say second round however Trinity started at 741 and finished at 739. While I agree colleges don't have anything to do with points going up or down, I never said they did, what I was stating was at least one college had to lower it's points to get people into Medicine last year even after, what I saw as, a much higher scoring HPAT test. I can't see them increasing the HPAT even further now, if anything I would have said they'd use the extra points for maths as an excuse not to increase the points for the HPAT again this year. That's just my theory on it though, could be way way off.

This is the article with the initial score (couldn't find a CAO initial score sheet anywhere!) http://www.imt.ie/news/latest-news/2011/08/breaking-news-cao-points-requirement-for-medicine-continues-to-climb.html

These are the actual final points requirements: http://www.tcd.ie/Admissions/undergraduate/assets/pdf/TCD_2011_Minimum_Entry_Points.pdf

Also, the HPAT has come in for massive criticism and is looking like it'll be scrapped. The big issue with it was it was initially going to even up the gender difference in medicine. The first year it did achieve that and looked good but ever since then it has been shown that it can be studied for and this has resulted in the gender split reverting to how it was when it was only the LC determining medicine entry. If the points increase once again for medicine it's going to have people saying that it's no better than just using the LC and as such the HPAT will be scrapped. They don't want that to happen so what I can see is slightly lower HPAT scores and slightly higher LC scores this year. Take that with a pinch of salt though as I'm not the first person to make a prediction on the points system in Ireland and get it horrendously wrong.

finality wrote: »

But there aren't people sitting around increasing or decreasing the points based on arbitrary criteria - the thing is, people are just scoring higher in general. Say there are 80 places on a course - the points the 80th best person got are the points for that year. The only reason for the 2 point drop in Trinity I can think of would be that the article got it wrong.

I know it didn't get it wrong because I was there the day the first points requirements were announced and it was 741. I'll get you some more articles with the same score. Here's another one from the Irish Times http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/frontpage/2011/0822/1224302808028.html Says the same score for medicine in Trinity. Also, this article references a small number of hopeful medicine students that will be getting good news in the second round offers http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/3300-get-second-round-cao-offer-166099.html I might add that the Irish Medical Times wouldn't get something like that wrong.

As for the people doing better part, you're right they are but what this shows is that, even with higher scores in the HPAT, TCD had to reduce its points (I know only by 2 but it is still significant.) This ever increasing system won't keep going the way it is, eventually a perfect 300 in the HPAT and at least 550 will be needed to even be in with a shout at medicine. They're going to want to buck the trend soon otherwise the whole thing becomes a mess.

The whole arbitrary criteria thing I don't quite understand since every year they try to manipulate the Leaving Cert scores so they stay roughly similar. As such, the only thing that is pushing up scores is the HPAT's increasing points and they're going to want to reel that in before the system becomes completely unsustainable.

hollingr wrote: »

Don't get too carried away.. any 200+ score in the hpat is very exceptional and there is no indication that this is changing over the past 3 years. If you look at the results graphs the number of people getting over 200 hasn't changed in any meanginful way since the exams insheeption..

The raw hpat scores are tallied, put through a statistical evaluation, then weighted by a mystical mathematical formula in order to manipulate the data into a nice little bell curve. All that will change year on year is the weighting system, so they can get data to fit the curve.

I wouldn't suggest at all that the numbers getting unreal scores are changing too much. The highest possible score has increased each year since its insheeption (love the use of insheeption :P). What I'm really saying is that each year that the majority of the scores in the bell curve (the main area of it) are higher than previous years. This trend hasn't really shown any signs of slowing down either. Now, my example of everyone needing 300 and 550 to be in with a shot was obviously way exaggerated It was just to make the point that we can't keep a system in which the points each year for medicine increase. It's no better than having just the LC then! And, as the LC is moderated to keep grades relatively consistent each year, it comes down to the HPAT to change what's happening.

hollingr wrote: »

you are right about the bell curve peak moving slightly to the right each year, weighing can only go so far!

The test makers will argue that the hpat is a better indicator of the suitability of the candidates to due medicine, since 600 points in the leaving is not a very good indicator of interpersonal skills and other things which would be crucial to a successful career in medicine.

Acer claim to measure different aspects of intelligence (such as emotional intelligence) that give a better idea of who would make a good doctor. Personally I think it is a slightly better test of overall intelligence than the leaving, but not by much. Also, if we could peak into how they come up with the weighing there would probably be uproar about how unfair it is.

A much better system would incorporate interviews and would take into account similar elements as entry by mature student path such as life experience, motivation, and evidence of interest/exposure to the career and what you're getting yourself in for.

I can't argue with any of this My main issue with the HPAT would be how big a difference studying for it can make. In theory it's a good idea but when studying can be done for it it eliminates the value of it. As for the interviews, that's exactly what the Australian system has. They have school results, UMAT (HPAT) results and interviews. Naturally we decided to take their system from ACER but leave out the interviews, since we like only doing things halfway

I like the idea of the interviews and taking into account the aspects of the mature student entry system, do you reckon we could ever properly implement it? I suppose that's the biggest issue with a lot of these things, implementation. I'd love to see a system like that brought in because I feel very sorry for the LC student having to work so very hard for this. I've a number of friends who busted their asses and didn't get it, missed by only a point or two. I suppose I'm in that category too

I'd agree hollingr, it's a dishonest system. The proof is out there, I know people who came up by 35-40 points in the HPAT after studying for it. I suppose the only other method would be the interviews that you mentioned earlier I just don't see them implementing them properly, I wish they would though!