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National Postcodes to be introduced

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    #6122
    Trouwe Ier
    Registered Users Posts: 151 ✭✭Trouwe Ier


    Another tweet from loc8code below as well as the full text of the article from the Roscommon Herald website as pasted by me.

    1) There is no mention of Eircode in the article
    2) "D4" is surrounded by other parts of Dublin and the sea. So far as I am aware, the designation of the "D4" identifier will change to "D04". South Roscommon on the other hand is a rural area in the hinterland of Athlone, Co. Westmeath, which is the postal town. Yes it is technically correct that "D4" to "D04" is a change but what is the point of the tweet?


    loc8code Jun 21, 8:37pm via Twitter Web Client
    AnPost says folk in D4 don't have to change address for #Eircode but people in Roscommon do:
    youtube.com/watch?v=BJvhSt…


    AN POST MEANT ‘NO OFFENCE’ WITH WESTMEATH ADDRESS ISSUE

    TUESDAY, JUNE 16, 2015
    An Post meant “no offence” when it asked businesses and residents in many areas South Roscommon to use ‘County Westmeath’ as their address when posting letters earlier this year.
    On Monday last an An Post representatives addressed a meeting of South Roscommon councillors. While the meeting was held in committee the Herald understands that the spokesperson told the councilors that there was no malice intended on behalf of the company.
    “It was explained to the representative from An Post that it was particularly offensive to many proud Roscommon people that they would be told to put County Westmeath down as their postal address,” Cllr John Keogh told the Roscommon Herald.
    “I certainly was reassured. I think the message coming from them was that there was no intentional malice. But it’s an issue I hope has been put to bed once and for all.”
    Councillors became concerned about the development as it had the potential to damage Roscommon as a unique ‘brand’.
    While the exact number of people affected is unknown, Cllr Keogh said it was enough to cause a lot of “upset”.
    Cllr Keogh added that An Post explained that people in the areas affected should put down the postal town, ie Athlone, on their post.

    “There was broad welcome for that clarification but we did ask An Post staff that the issue should not arise in the future,” Cllr Keogh said. “It was a beneficial meeting. He said that An Post strove for next day delivery and he did give assurances that putting Athlone, County Roscommon would not delay delivery.”


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    #6123
    Sam Russell
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,415 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    So An Post are the arbiters for addresses. Even if they upset people.


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    #6124
    dr.fuzzenstein
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 16,635 ✭✭✭✭dr.fuzzenstein


    Sam Russell wrote: »
    So An Post are the arbiters for addresses. Even if they upset people.

    If people feel upset by their postcode, they can continue to write D4 in the address. Since it will be ignored for routing purposes (the same as Dunroaming Manor or Cloud cuckoo Land as part of the address), it shouldn't be a problem.


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    #6125
    TheBustedFlush
    Registered Users Posts: 254 ✭✭TheBustedFlush


    Interesting bit on background to design of code and database:

    "....the final design criteria were provided including that the first three characters of the code had to identify the post-town for an address - as assigned by An Post. Those three characters had to avoid the use of place names, and also incorporate the codes of the existing Dublin districts. The code could not be longer than ten characters, including any spaces and be consistent and memorable. Each code, on its own, had to identify each postal address, including apartments in multi-unit buildings, and be compatible with An Post's sorting systems.....the design had to prioritise coding postal addresses so that whilst it could also be used for coding other places or points of information, that functionality couldn’t impact negatively on coding postal addresses. And finally it had to be able to accommodate changes in capacity and technology. A new postal address database including the postcodes then had to be created using the GeoDirectory owned by OSI and An Post."

    So does this mean the eircode could be expanded in future to be C36 12AAAA where two characters in the second part could denote a smaller area within a postal district for delivery companies to use or identify other places besides postal addresses?


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    #6126
    OU812
    Registered Users Posts: 6,035 ✭✭✭OU812


    Was trying to change a business address on my paypal account & it won't let me because the Dublin postcode field requires an eircode


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    #6127
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    OU812 wrote: »
    Was trying to change a business address on my paypal account & it won't let me because the Dublin postcode field requires an eircode
    Looks like someone jumped the gun, or should that be, the gun failed to fire!


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    #6128
    Trouwe Ier
    Registered Users Posts: 151 ✭✭Trouwe Ier


    OU812 wrote: »
    Was trying to change a business address on my paypal account & it won't let me because the Dublin postcode field requires an eircode

    That is interesting alright. It looks like a lot of service providers are rearing to go. There might be a lot more gun jumping over the next few days.

    The bill is in the Dáil tomorrow and in the Seanad on Thursday. I can't remember what happens then but things are still looking tight for 6th July.


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    #6129
    TheBustedFlush
    Registered Users Posts: 254 ✭✭TheBustedFlush


    OU812 wrote: »
    Was trying to change a business address on my paypal account & it won't let me because the Dublin postcode field requires an eircode

    That is very specific instruction - "must contain a valid routing key and unique identifier" - seems strange to use such technical language - will ordinary people unfamiliar with eircode structure understand these terms?

    If that becomes a commonplace requirement from online service providers, then it will help drive substantial adoption and recall by people.


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    #6130
    ukoda
    Registered Users Posts: 2,084 ✭✭✭ukoda


    TheBustedFlush wrote: »
    That is very specific instruction - "must contain a valid routing key and unique identifier" - seems strange to use such technical language - will ordinary people unfamiliar with eircode structure understand these terms?

    If that becomes a commonplace requirement from online service providers, then it will help drive substantial adoption and recall by people.

    All the promotional material has that terminology, with brochures explaining what each part of the code is


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    #6131
    plodder
    Registered Users Posts: 7,143 ✭✭✭plodder


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Looks like someone jumped the gun, or should that be, the gun failed to fire!
    I just changed an address on my paypal account and it still accepts "0000" in the postcode field <edit> that was an alternate address. I do see the same error with the primary address. Bizarre.


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    #6132
    tvc15
    Registered Users Posts: 325 ✭✭tvc15


    plodder wrote: »
    I just changed an address on my paypal account and it still accepts "0000" in the postcode field <edit> that was an alternate address. I do see the same error with the primary address. Bizarre.

    I can't get the error, is it just Dublin addresses?


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    #6133
    plodder
    Registered Users Posts: 7,143 ✭✭✭plodder


    tvc15 wrote: »
    I can't get the error, is it just Dublin addresses?
    Odd. The page has changed since I did it twenty minutes ago. The county was a menu list and my entry said something like "Dublin county/postal code". So, I changed it to County Dublin and then got the error.

    Now, instead of that menu, there is a text field entitled "State / Province / Region
    " which has County Dublin in it.

    I guess they were testing the Eircode support out. Maybe they are on this thread!

    Paypal if you are listening - don't ask for people's "Routing key and unique identifier" That will be meaningless mumbo-jumbo to the general populace who will have just about heard of "Eircodes" if you are lucky. :)


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    #6134
    TheBustedFlush
    Registered Users Posts: 254 ✭✭TheBustedFlush


    ukoda wrote: »
    All the promotional material has that terminology, with brochures explaining what each part of the code is

    Promotional material for who though? I can understand that companies providing eircode services or using the eircode service might be given that terminology, but getting members of the public to use it is what I was commenting on.

    Will Mrs Murphy in Co. Whatever remember her postcode/eircode or will she remember her routing key and her unique identifier?


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    #6135
    oscarBravo
    Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 28,792 Mod ✭✭✭✭oscarBravo


    plodder wrote: »
    Paypal if you are listening - don't ask for people's "Routing key and unique identifier"

    I didn't get the impression that it was asking for a routing key and unique identifier; it seems that it asks for a postcode, and if it's not a valid eircode, it explains why.

    It's a semantic difference, but not an insignificant one.


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    #6136
    plodder
    Registered Users Posts: 7,143 ✭✭✭plodder


    oscarBravo wrote: »
    I didn't get the impression that it was asking for a routing key and unique identifier; it seems that it asks for a postcode, and if it's not a valid eircode, it explains why.

    It's a semantic difference, but not an insignificant one.
    To a point. iirc, the message only appeared after entering an invalid eircode. However, there isn't any value in that message. They should just say "not a valid Eircode". It's not like you can supply a valid routing key and unique id that are independent of each other.


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    #6137
    MBSnr
    Registered Users Posts: 2,191 ✭✭✭MBSnr


    ^^^
    I don't know how these things work - but maybe it's a return error message from the autoaddress API but outputted on the webpage?


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    #6138
    SpaceTime
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,088 ✭✭✭SpaceTime


    Well it's about as useful as PayPal asking for your MSISDN identifier instead of your phone number.

    Insider technical jargon is never much help to the public!


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    #6139
    plodder
    Registered Users Posts: 7,143 ✭✭✭plodder


    MBSnr wrote: »
    ^^^
    I don't know how these things work - but maybe it's a return error message from the autoaddress API but outputted on the webpage?
    That's the most likely explanation. Paypal probably don't even know what a routing key is. All the more reason why their end users aren't going to understand it. It could say something like "Enter a valid seven character Eircode" ... It's only a minor quirk it has to be said.


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    #6140
    ukoda
    Registered Users Posts: 2,084 ✭✭✭ukoda


    SpaceTime wrote: »
    Well it's about as useful as PayPal asking for your MSISDN identifier instead of your phone number.

    Insider technical jargon is never much help to the public!

    Every article explaining eircode and every mention / interview on TV has explained to the general public that your code is made up of 2 parts a routing key and unique identifier. This is very much in the public and not what I would say is jargon, as they seem to promote the terminology for public use


    This is the residential FAQ that explains them:

    http://www.eircode.ie/docs/default-source/Common/residential-guide---published-working-doc-v3.pdf?sfvrsn=2


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    #6141
    plodder
    Registered Users Posts: 7,143 ✭✭✭plodder


    ukoda wrote: »
    Every article explaining eircode and every mention / interview on TV has explained to the general public that your code is made up of 2 parts a routing key and unique identifier. This is very much in the public and not what I would say is jargon, as they seem to promote the terminology for public use


    This is the residential FAQ that explains them:

    http://www.eircode.ie/docs/default-source/Common/residential-guide---published-working-doc-v3.pdf?sfvrsn=2
    You think that end users (the public) will read these documents and absorb all the information in them. God bless your innocence..


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    #6142
    TheChizler
    Registered Users Posts: 9,428 ✭✭✭TheChizler


    It's no more complicated than the area code and local unique number in your phone number.


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    #6143
    thierry14
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,480 ✭✭✭thierry14


    Eircode = lat and long

    What's the confusion?

    Yes you will need a smart device/computer/gps to use.

    So what?

    Everyone should/has one of these.

    If Google maps support Eircode, it will be very useful to all


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    #6144
    ukoda
    Registered Users Posts: 2,084 ✭✭✭ukoda


    plodder wrote: »
    You think that end users (the public) will read these documents and absorb all the information in them. God bless your innocence..

    Well people aren't stupid, most people can understand this id imagine, if it's on their letter when they get their ericode they might retain it, you never know


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    #6145
    ukoda
    Registered Users Posts: 2,084 ✭✭✭ukoda


    Considering PayPal is already on board, I would like to think Google are already integrating eircodes into their maps too, maybe I'm being optimistic, but when it comes to google, they will gobble up any data they can, so ericode adoption would be a no brainier for them


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    #6146
    Trouwe Ier
    Registered Users Posts: 151 ✭✭Trouwe Ier


    TheBustedFlush wrote: »

    Will Mrs Murphy in Co. Whatever remember her postcode/eircode or will she remember her routing key and her unique identifier?

    Hopefully!

    She'll get her tear out card in July (probably) and I imagine that most business and statutory correspondence will have the Eircode included. As I said previously, people always seem to have letters lying around the house so if she is stuck, she can head for the mantle piece or drawer..


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    #6147
    larchill
    Registered Users Posts: 371 ✭✭larchill


    see eircode got a mention on RTE News Now in relation to Data Protection a little while ago.


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    #6148
    Trouwe Ier
    Registered Users Posts: 151 ✭✭Trouwe Ier


    Reading last night's twitter traffic, I noted that "GetLostEircodes" has started to swear in his tweets at this stage but I also that earlier in the evening, autoaddress had tweeted the following:

    autoaddress Jun 23, 10:28pm via Twitter Web Client
    @globadd You should read autoaddress.ie/blog/autoaddre…
    It will help with the re-write of your mostly inaccurate article.

    It's beginning to look like a war of attrition now on the twitter front. One side or the other is going to be very wrong.

    The blog makes interesting reading though.

    https://www.autoaddress.ie/blog/autoaddressblog/2015/04/11/top-5-eircode-design-challenges


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    #6149
    dr.fuzzenstein
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 16,635 ✭✭✭✭dr.fuzzenstein


    Interesting indeed.
    And it always comes back to this:
    A UK style postcode design would not solve the non-unique address issue in Ireland. A unique postcode per address solves the problem. Alternative suggestions to make wholesale changes to addresses would be met with widespread rejection and hamper adoption.

    Let's face it, this is Ireland. Everything new is always met with the usual protests and complaining.


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    #6150
    ukoda
    Registered Users Posts: 2,084 ✭✭✭ukoda


    The reality is there are good arguments for and against all types of postcodes. I never believed a non database solution was the answer, I always thought it should be linked to a database and not purely a group code based system. Others disagree. But seriously the amount of hate being spewed at the design is completely disproportionate. It's a postcode lads. They have outlined their reasons for choosing that design, fine if you disagree, but we have this postcode now.


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    #6151
    plodder
    Registered Users Posts: 7,143 ✭✭✭plodder


    ukoda wrote: »
    The reality is there are good arguments for and against all types of postcodes. I never believed a non database solution was the answer, I always thought it should be linked to a database and not purely a group code based system. Others disagree. But seriously the amount of hate being spewed at the design is completely disproportionate. It's a postcode lads. They have outlined their reasons for choosing that design, fine if you disagree, but we have this postcode now.
    Can you point to a document outlining the reasons for choosing that design? Something more than a few posts on twitter preferably...

    I think there is only one poster here with an actual personal grievance over how the system unfolded. Regardless of that, I don't see any "hate being spewed" which is a bit extreme. Others are just just commenting on the design, given that it was presented as a fait-accompli and went contrary to their own requirements.


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