Shannon Airport Thread [Mod Warning in First Post]

JCX BXC · 12-03-2015 11:47pm

highlydebased wrote: »

My money's on them just reading this thread tbh!

Id say so. Didn't we have an AerRyan on here before?

highlydebased · 13-03-2015 1:32am

In any case no indication of any flights for MAN or Kaunas loaded for anywhere on the site yet so too soon to call them out as dropped...

JCX BXC · 13-03-2015 1:45am

highlydebased wrote: »

In any case no indication of any flights for MAN or Kaunas loaded for anywhere on the site yet so too soon to call them out as dropped...

KUN only has flights to DUB and STN loaded and MAN has flights to nowhere loaded.

Brennans Row · 13-03-2015 3:21pm

The CSO statistics for December are out.

The North American market performed quite good in 2014, though Newark and Philadelphia may need some promotional work for 2015.

JCX BXC · 13-03-2015 3:27pm

Brennans Row wrote: »

The CSO statistics for December are out.

The North American market performed quite good in 2014, though Newark and Philadelphia may need some promotional work for 2015.

Its strange that AA are expanding their Philadelphia service. Are they looking to get a firm foothold in the market by operating for longer?

GCU Flexible Demeanour · 13-03-2015 11:52pm

Brennans Row wrote: »

Jayus, I hope the recycling of aircraft in Shannon won’t keep you awake at night.

I'll tell you in the morning if I didn't get any sleep.

Have a look at the planning application documents on Clare County Council website (not hard to find with Google). Tell me if you feel those documents make you feel the potential implications of this proposal have been teased out.

Brennans Row · 14-03-2015 12:14pm

GCU Flexible Demeanour wrote: »

Have a look at the planning application documents on Clare County Council website (not hard to find with Google). Tell me if you feel those documents make you feel the potential implications of this proposal have been teased out.

That planning application 14587 can be seen here.

I have no issues with it as long as those conditions are fulfilled.

GCU Flexible Demeanour · 14-03-2015 8:59pm

Brennans Row wrote: »

That planning application 14587 can be seen here.

I have no issues with it as long as those conditions are fulfilled.

Do you feel that the "conditions" are realistic in suggesting 100% of the material can be contained, put on the back of a truck, and taken to some undisclosed location(s)?

Do you feel the application should mention any of the hazardous substances released when a plane is dismantled and cut up?

Do you feel that the planning file should, at the absolute least, identify if the locations to which the material is brought are within the country, or abroad?

Brennans Row · 15-03-2015 12:36pm

Similar planning conditions would also apply for those same hazardous waste materials when aircraft undergo maintenance, repair and overhaul too.

Therefore the dismantling of the aircraft would be complementary in nature, to the MRO work already carried out there in that hangar.

Furthermore, it states that no recycling activity will be undertaken on the site with the material being transported off-site to existing authorised recycling plants / waste disposal facilities.

It is the EPA that would regulate the licensing and control of such recycling plants / waste disposal facilities.

JCX BXC · 15-03-2015 12:38pm

Aer Lingus' flight to JFK resumes today. Its set for departure in less than an hour.

highlydebased · 15-03-2015 1:41pm

According to the travelextra.info, the recently inaugurated Istanbul-SNN-Chicago Turkish Airlines Cargo service could be converted to passenger operations with a widebody to carry high volume cargo + pax

JCX BXC · 15-03-2015 1:46pm

highlydebased wrote: »

According to the travelextra.info, the recently inaugurated Istanbul-SNN-Chicago Turkish Airlines Cargo service could be converted to passenger operations with a widebody to carry high volume cargo + pax

A 2x weekly (or maybe more) widebody service to Istanbul, now thats something new.

Would this continue onto Chicago with pax? Possibly transferring from Istanbul as well to preclear?

highlydebased · 15-03-2015 1:51pm

Carnacalla wrote: »

A 2x weekly (or maybe more) widebody service to Istanbul, now thats something new.

Would this continue onto Chicago with pax? Possibly transferring from Istanbul as well to preclear?

Yes, I think the main point of it would be the fact it would be a year round ORD connection. Freight would be the main money maker though, particularly strong demand to Chicago for that. Pax would just be gravy

Jamie2k9 · 15-03-2015 2:39pm

highlydebased wrote: »

According to the travelextra.info, the recently inaugurated Istanbul-SNN-Chicago Turkish Airlines Cargo service could be converted to passenger operations with a widebody to carry high volume cargo + pax

Personally i think its very unlikely, TK may just be feeding the media spin which they want to hear.

It would take a lot of cargo to justify a wide body passenger service for the simple reason increase the size of the cargo only aircraft would yield better profits than running a second passenger service and with such low frequency it would be heavily dependent on point to point traffic.

Interesting to see if it comes off but can't see it myself.

As for the general US figures, looks like UA have taken a hit form EI 752 ops outside of peak season. While they have timed freq to will be an interesting one to watch and if it continues this year.

Airbus330 · 15-03-2015 3:42pm

A pity that there was no publicity given to Aer Lingus for restarting the JFk route today. Ryanair seem to dominate any tweets, facebook posts etc that Shannon post.

Given that Waterford airport have connections to BHX and LTN it seems crazy that the third busiest airport in the country doesn't. VLM would be an ideal airline to establish connections between SNN and regional airports in the UK as they operate small Fokker aircraft. SNN badly needs to expand its airline customers and stop constantly relying on Ryanair to open new services.

EI have obviously very little time for SNN given they're temporary suspension on the Boston route, the late unfavorable LHR departure times, the last American service of the day to JFK (12:20, what business person wants to land in JFK at 15:30?) and the opening of routes that are already available (FAO, Malaga). I don't see why they would even compete with Ryanair on these routes. (think they have reduced the frequencies this year).

Opening negotiations with airlines with suitable aircraft such as VLM for UK regional routes (Fokker aircraft); BA for an early LCY connection (ERJ); Brussels Airlines for a Brussels service (Avro RJ100); KLM Cityhopper (Amsterdam) to name but a few. Surely offering these airlines similar concessions that are obviously offered to Ryanair would be good for the airport in the long term..Offering the likes of BA to base an ERJ in SNN overnight at half the price of LCY charges and in return get them to have an early LCY route in the morning would be ideal? and they could operate the aircraft on LCY connections throughout the day (e.g LCY-DUB-LCY-AMS-LCY-SNN) and bring back the passengers to SNN in the evening? Maybe I'm crazy I dunno. But in order to each the 2.1 million passengers by 2020 and continue the yearly growth of passengers something needs to be done..

As for UA, that will probably fall again this year given that Delta will be operating their JFK service at 8:40 am during the peak season.

JCX BXC · 15-03-2015 4:02pm

Airbus330 wrote: »

A pity that there was no publicity given to Aer Lingus for restarting the JFk route today. Ryanair seem to dominate any tweets, facebook posts etc that Shannon post.

I seen the Shannon Airport Support Group posting about it today, that's about it.

Given that Waterford airport have connections to BHX and LTN it seems crazy that the third busiest airport in the country doesn't. VLM would be an ideal airline to establish connections between SNN and regional airports in the UK as they operate small Fokker aircraft. SNN badly needs to expand its airline customers and stop constantly relying on Ryanair to open new services.

The problem there is that VLM is a very unknown Airline in Ireland, and they would need alot of advertising. I also guarantee that if VLM started in Cork, Kerry, Shannon or Knock, any route they start would he hit with ridiculous competition from Ryanair. Of course it would be no harm to try it, but that's whats likely to happen.
Shannon is trying to expand its Airlines, currently it has Aer Lingus, Ryanair, Delta, United, US airways, Helvetic Airlines and the charter companies eg, Falcon (3 routes) Sunway (Turkey). A Turkish airline may be possible soon. Of course a few more routes would be nice, namely Germanwings to Cologne and TAP Portugal to Lisbon, but after you've very little to go to.

EI have obviously very little time for SNN given they're temporary suspension on the Boston route, the late unfavorable LHR departure times,

I agree there. Anything they give to Shannon is highly publicied but poorly executed.

the last American service of the day to JFK (12:20, what business person wants to land in JFK at 15:30?)

I think the JFK service is fine. The dublin flight leaves at 10:50, not much better tbh. BTW, the flights land at 14:40, its the Daylight saving us that cause them to land an hour later. When the clocks go back here it'll be fine.

and the opening of routes that are already available (FAO, Malaga).

Faro was not served from Shannon when Aer Lingus commenced it. Ryanair took it on last year. Malaga was taken up in what looks a small attack on Ryanair. Both continue this year so its obivous there's money to be made on them routes.

I don't see why they would even compete with Ryanair on these routes. (think they have reduced the frequencies this year).

Frequencies the same, they just operate for a slightly shorter time (I think).

Opening negotiations with airlines with suitable aircraft such as VLM for UK regional routes (Fokker aircraft); BA for an early LCY connection (ERJ); Brussels Airlines for a Brussels service (Avro RJ100); KLM Cityhopper (Amsterdam) to name but a few.

I agree to an extent. VLM would be great. The LCY route isn't really important, we have 6 and sometimes 7 daily flights to London, we are well covered on that front. Brussels would be a great addition, especially to get that nudge over Cork! An Amsterdam connection is the one route the airport needs. Its reliance on LHR for connecting traffic is not healthy, it needs a little compeition.

Surely offering these airlines similar concessions that are obviously offered to Ryanair would be good for the airport in the long term..Offering the likes of BA to base an ERJ in SNN overnight at half the price of LCY charges and in return get them to have an early LCY route in the morning would be ideal? and they could operate the aircraft on LCY connections throughout the day (e.g LCY-DUB-LCY-AMS-LCY-SNN) and bring back the passengers to SNN in the evening? Maybe I'm crazy I dunno. But in order to each the 2.1 million passengers by 2020 and continue the yearly growth of passengers something needs to be done..

Good point. CSA will overnight an aircraft in cork this year and operate a service to Ibiza during the night. Overnighting aircraft woild be good for Shannon. Also for the airlines when they operate out of a time restricted airport.

As for UA, that will probably fall again this year given that Delta will be operating their JFK service at 8:40 am during the peak season.

UA have a good customer base and are the most loyal airline at SNN. I cannot see them leaving, if anything I can see them increasing services. They will get some serious competition though, especially if this TK airlines thing comes through. UA will stay, you'll see.

Jamie2k9 · 15-03-2015 4:05pm

Airbus330 wrote: »

A pity that there was no publicity given to Aer Lingus for restarting the JFk route today. Ryanair seem to dominate any tweets, facebook posts etc that Shannon post.

Given that Waterford airport have connections to BHX and LTN it seems crazy that the third busiest airport in the country doesn't. VLM would be an ideal airline to establish connections between SNN and regional airports in the UK as they operate small Fokker aircraft. SNN badly needs to expand its airline customers and stop constantly relying on Ryanair to open new services.

EI have obviously very little time for SNN given they're temporary suspension on the Boston route, the late unfavorable LHR departure times, the last American service of the day to JFK (12:20, what business person wants to land in JFK at 15:30?) and the opening of routes that are already available (FAO, Malaga). I don't see why they would even compete with Ryanair on these routes. (think they have reduced the frequencies this year).

Opening negotiations with airlines with suitable aircraft such as VLM for UK regional routes (Fokker aircraft); BA for an early LCY connection (ERJ); Brussels Airlines for a Brussels service (Avro RJ100); KLM Cityhopper (Amsterdam) to name but a few. Surely offering these airlines similar concessions that are obviously offered to Ryanair would be good for the airport in the long term..Offering the likes of BA to base an ERJ in SNN overnight at half the price of LCY charges and in return get them to have an early LCY route in the morning would be ideal? and they could operate the aircraft on LCY connections throughout the day (e.g LCY-DUB-LCY-AMS-LCY-SNN) and bring back the passengers to SNN in the evening? Maybe I'm crazy I dunno. But in order to each the 2.1 million passengers by 2020 and continue the yearly growth of passengers something needs to be done..

As for UA, that will probably fall again this year given that Delta will be operating their JFK service at 8:40 am during the peak season.

The T/A departures are the same across Europe so nothing special at SNN and arrivals between 13.00-16.00 are all normal.

Aer Lingus opened FAO first and of course SNN gave Ryanair the deal to open FAO along with the other routes....

LHR slots are limited and go where the most money can be made.

As for the othher regional carriers to Europe, not a chance come on be realistic they could't get them in the boom what hope is there now...

VLM will not touch SNN because the big hubs in the UK are London and Manchester which would driver profits and are served well from SNN and nothing would be viable.

It will be Ryanair or nobody for BHX/EDI I expect.

highlydebased · 15-03-2015 4:19pm

Almost 9000 carried to Malaga in peak last July between 2 carriers so must be money in it.

Hub access into Europe could do with being better but I think the plentiful t/a service from SNN is a detractor for any potential customer looking for connecting traffic

JCX BXC · 15-03-2015 4:21pm

highlydebased wrote: »

Hub access into Europe could do with being better but I think the plentiful t/a service from SNN is a detractor for any potential customer looking for connecting traffic

That Idea of going east to head west doesnt work in my head any further than LHR anyway. For places like Africa and Asia and even Australia are big connecting routes from SNN and are almost exclusively LHR.

Airbus330 · 15-03-2015 5:03pm

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

The T/A departures are the same across Europe so nothing special at SNN and arrivals between 13.00-16.00 are all normal.

Aer Lingus opened FAO first and of course SNN gave Ryanair the deal to open FAO along with the other routes....

LHR slots are limited and go where the most money can be made.

As for the othher regional carriers to Europe, not a chance come on be realistic they could't get them in the boom what hope is there now...

VLM will not touch SNN because the big hubs in the UK are London and Manchester which would driver profits and are served well from SNN and nothing would be viable.

It will be Ryanair or nobody for BHX/EDI I expect.

Yeah but EI are starting the early morning JFK flight from Dublin, which will defiantly prove popular especially with business passengers given that it will now open up the possibility for a day return..Earlier flights to major cities are much more favorable which was up until this summer a major competitive advantage for UA with the first flight out to EWR from SNN but I would expect UA to still do well given the loyalty they have built with SNN customers.

Early LHR times were always popular from SNN, and its an issue that's constantly addressed. The drop in LHR passengers in 2014 was Ryanair's gain given that they have a 6:30 STN flight compared to EI 8:50 LHR.

They couldn't get them in the boom? Am SNN was completely dictated by the DAA at that time. Every single decision was made by a Dublin based group who would not allow traffic into SNN that could potentially divert traffic from DUB or ORK. (e.g EI Paris CDG route, DAA gave them an awful departure slot which proved really unpopular and was ended pretty quickly). I think the new management defiantly have the potential to attract new airline customers, and now have the ability to negotiate charges on their own terms.

They need an airline that can both feed the transatlantic network and develop into a transfer hub as well as serving the local area. Ryanair can't offer that. Its a pity that the Flybe service to Glasgow was short lived, now that they have a codeshare agreement with EI. But sadly at the moment it looks like Ryanair are the only ones that would.

Airbus330 · 15-03-2015 5:22pm

Carnacalla wrote: »

I seen the Shannon Airport Support Group posting about it today, that's about it.

The problem there is that VLM is a very unknown Airline in Ireland, and they would need alot of advertising. I also guarantee that if VLM started in Cork, Kerry, Shannon or Knock, any route they start would he hit with ridiculous competition from Ryanair. Of course it would be no harm to try it, but that's whats likely to happen.
Shannon is trying to expand its Airlines, currently it has Aer Lingus, Ryanair, Delta, United, US airways, Helvetic Airlines and the charter companies eg, Falcon (3 routes) Sunway (Turkey). A Turkish airline may be possible soon. Of course a few more routes would be nice, namely Germanwings to Cologne and TAP Portugal to Lisbon, but after you've very little to go to.

I agree there. Anything they give to Shannon is highly publicied but poorly executed.

I think the JFK service is fine. The dublin flight leaves at 10:50, not much better tbh. BTW, the flights land at 14:40, its the Daylight saving us that cause them to land an hour later. When the clocks go back here it'll be fine.

Faro was not served from Shannon when Aer Lingus commenced it. Ryanair took it on last year. Malaga was taken up in what looks a small attack on Ryanair. Both continue this year so its obivous there's money to be made on them routes.

Frequencies the same, they just operate for a slightly shorter time (I think).

I agree to an extent. VLM would be great. The LCY route isn't really important, we have 6 and sometimes 7 daily flights to London, we are well covered on that front. Brussels would be a great addition, especially to get that nudge over Cork! An Amsterdam connection is the one route the airport needs. Its reliance on LHR for connecting traffic is not healthy, it needs a little compeition.

Good point. CSA will overnight an aircraft in cork this year and operate a service to Ibiza during the night. Overnighting aircraft woild be good for Shannon. Also for the airlines when they operate out of a time restricted airport.

UA have a good customer base and are the most loyal airline at SNN. I cannot see them leaving, if anything I can see them increasing services. They will get some serious competition though, especially if this TK airlines thing comes through. UA will stay, you'll see.

Yeah this is true, but it would definitely be worth it overtime but yeah didn't even think about that element of it.

Yeah thought Cologne was on the cards for awhile alright but it never came about..But yeah even AMS, was just using LCY as an example, it would be great. And the KLM cityhopper would offer the perfect sized aircraft. Its all about timing I think, people need to be in the city centre of major cities early, not 11am...! Even a service to CDG, I know Ryanair fly to Beauvais but thats not great and from a previous post it looks like they will be reducing the frequency for winter 2015, though I know this isn't confirmed.

Yeah completely agree with you on UA, they have established a good customer base just a pity that they're passenger numbers fell last year. Any ideas on where they could expand to from SNN?

JCX BXC · 15-03-2015 5:25pm

Airbus330 wrote: »

Yeah completely agree with you on UA, they have established a good customer base just a pity that they're passenger numbers fell last year. Any ideas on where they could expand to from SNN?

Id imagine Chicago would operate for longer, and newark may be expanded into something like 10x weekly during the summer, like it was in 2010. Washington may be a possibility considering that they now have a good load of competition in Dublin.

Airbus330 · 15-03-2015 6:27pm

Carnacalla wrote: »

Id imagine Chicago would operate for longer, and newark may be expanded into something like 10x weekly during the summer, like it was in 2010. Washington may be a possibility considering that they now have a good load of competition in Dublin.

Yeah I'd imagine a Washington route would do well during the summer months. Wonder will Delta ever bring back the ATL connection...heres hoping!

Granting fifth freedom rights to an airline that could operate via SNN onto the West Coast of the US could also be a viable option...like what Ethiopian airlines are doing in Dublin.

JCX BXC · 15-03-2015 6:29pm

Airbus330 wrote: »

Yeah I'd imagine a Washington route would do well during the summer months. Wonder will Delta ever bring back the ATL connection...heres hoping!

Granting fifth freedom rights to an airline that could operate via SNN onto the West Coast of the US could also be a viable option...like what Ethiopian airlines are doing in Dublin.

Atlanta would be a great destination, its the largest airport in the world! (By passenger numbers) The problem is I doubt a 757 could make that distance.

As for the service VIA Shannon, Turkish Airlines may be doing that soon.

Airbus330 · 15-03-2015 6:36pm

Carnacalla wrote: »

Atlanta would be a great destination, its the largest airport in the world! (By passenger numbers) The problem is I doubt a 757 could make that distance.

As for the service VIA Shannon, Turkish Airlines may be doing that soon.

Yeah they operated it using a 757 the last few years it was operating. And sure Shannon is "757 heaven" according to some news paper article, which I think is 100% correct.

Yeah its an interesting one to watch.

Cosmo Kramer · 15-03-2015 6:49pm

Airbus330 wrote: »

I think the new management defiantly have the potential to attract new airline customers, and now have the ability to negotiate charges on their own terms.

They need an airline that can both feed the transatlantic network and develop into a transfer hub as well as serving the local area.

They had that and they effectively ran them out of town in favour of the short term passenger number gain offered by Ryanair. Now the new Ryanair Euro routes are tanking so where will management go next - maybe they will go crawling back to Aer Lingus to try to bring back the hub connectivity they previously didn't seem to care about? However Aer Lingus, in their current form, strike me as an airline that would happily drop Shannon entirely if they thought they could get away with it.

And as for Ryanair - what do they try now from Shannon? Bringing back the previously failed Euro routes doesn't seem to be working so maybe they could try bringing back the previously failed regional UK routes instead to see if they do any better. However, I don't see why they would since, like those Euro routes, they failed the last time. Part of me thinks they're just hanging on at Shannon until Cork gets some kind of debt deal so they can just move their operations down there to see if that brings them any joy.

highlydebased · 15-03-2015 6:53pm

Cosmo Kramer wrote: »

They had that and they effectively ran them out of town in favour of the short term passenger number gain offered by Ryanair. Now the new Ryanair Euro routes are tanking so where will management go next - maybe they will go crawling back to Aer Lingus to try to bring back the hub connectivity they previously didn't seem to care about? However Aer Lingus, in their current form, strike me as an airline that would happily drop Shannon entirely if they thought they could get away with it.

And as for Ryanair - what do they try now from Shannon? Bringing back the previously failed Euro routes doesn't seem to be working so maybe they could try bringing back the previously failed regional UK routes instead to see if they do any better. However, I don't see why they would since, like those Euro routes, they failed the last time. Part of me thinks they're just hanging on at Shannon until Cork gets some kind of debt deal so they can just move their operations down there to see if that brings them any joy.

The Euro routes are not "tanking"....try filling a 738 from NOC to Beauvais in January and see how far you get!

GCU Flexible Demeanour · 15-03-2015 6:58pm

Brennans Row wrote: »

<...> the dismantling of the aircraft would be complementary in nature, to the MRO work already carried out there in that hangar.

Do you feel that the planning file should deal with this? The file is ridiculously short of information.

Brennans Row wrote: »

Furthermore, it states that no recycling activity will be undertaken on the site with the material being transported off-site to existing authorised recycling plants / waste disposal facilities.

It is the EPA that would regulate the licensing and control of such recycling plants / waste disposal facilities.

But wouldn't you expect the planning authority would ask what quantities of material would be produced, and what off-site locations the material would be brought to?

JCX BXC · 15-03-2015 7:01pm

Cosmo Kramer wrote: »

They had that and they effectively ran them out of town in favour of the short term passenger number gain offered by Ryanair. Now the new Ryanair Euro routes are tanking so where will management go next - maybe they will go crawling back to Aer Lingus to try to bring back the hub connectivity they previously didn't seem to care about? However Aer Lingus, in their current form, strike me as an airline that would happily drop Shannon entirely if they thought they could get away with it.

And as for Ryanair - what do they try now from Shannon? Bringing back the previously failed Euro routes doesn't seem to be working so maybe they could try bringing back the previously failed regional UK routes instead to see if they do any better. However, I don't see why they would since, like those Euro routes, they failed the last time. Part of me thinks they're just hanging on at Shannon until Cork gets some kind of debt deal so they can just move their operations down there to see if that brings them any joy.

Ryanair can well try the new Copenhagen and other bases!

Airbus330 · 15-03-2015 7:26pm

Cosmo Kramer wrote: »

They had that and they effectively ran them out of town in favour of the short term passenger number gain offered by Ryanair. Now the new Ryanair Euro routes are tanking so where will management go next - maybe they will go crawling back to Aer Lingus to try to bring back the hub connectivity they previously didn't seem to care about? However Aer Lingus, in their current form, strike me as an airline that would happily drop Shannon entirely if they thought they could get away with it.

And as for Ryanair - what do they try now from Shannon? Bringing back the previously failed Euro routes doesn't seem to be working so maybe they could try bringing back the previously failed regional UK routes instead to see if they do any better. However, I don't see why they would since, like those Euro routes, they failed the last time. Part of me thinks they're just hanging on at Shannon until Cork gets some kind of debt deal so they can just move their operations down there to see if that brings them any joy.

I certainly don't think the routes are 'tanking'. Why would they bring them all back for the summer season then? These routes all performed extremely well I believe, with some of them even kept on for the winter months. But I think constantly relying on Ryanair to bring new services is not good for the airport and given the fact that Ryanair don't fly to major hubs like AMS or CDG they need to grow the number of airlines operating from the airport if they want to continue to increase traffic.

EI, whilst they constantly put SNN behind the likes of DUB or ORK, at the end of the day you do have to commend them (especially Cristoph Muller) for investing in a/c that suit the Shannon market. They could have just scrapped their services, there is nothing stopping them. But I think if taken over by the IAG Willie Walsh will have no interest in continuing services, European or t/a. He never showed any interest in SNN when he was with EI why would he now?

Shannon Airport Thread [Mod Warning in First Post]

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