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The Killing [AMC] [** Spoilers **]

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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,103 ✭✭✭seadnamac


    http://www.avclub.com/articles/amc-renews-the-killing,57492/

    Renewed for a second season with rumours that it will end on a cliff hanger. If this happens after watching this trudge along for, so far, eleven middling episodes, I will not be a happy chappy.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 21,634 ✭✭✭✭Richard Dower


    ^ what?????.....season 1 ends without resolution??????????
    No flipping way!....what a crock!, 13 weeks wasted, no way i'm tuning in next season!


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,103 ✭✭✭seadnamac


    First scene, p*ssing rain, last scene, p*ssing rain and now it's supposed to be Richmond. But it's probably not.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 21,634 ✭✭✭✭Richard Dower


    seadnamac wrote: »
    First scene, p*ssing rain, last scene, p*ssing rain and now it's supposed to be Richmond. But it's probably not.

    Yeah...i was going to post my ep. 10 review but got sidetracked by the renewal news :)

    It's not Richmond....way too obvious, i'm starting to think now either his girlfriend or HER father, the senator played by Alan Dale. The murder is linked to his affair with Rosie for sure, so she's not a sweet little innocent after all!

    My guess?...it'll end on a cliffhanger with Richmond found dead, ergo new investigation.... :mad:


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 21,634 ✭✭✭✭Richard Dower


    ****! :mad: gave away the bloody killer?...she's some douche! :rolleyes:

    http://uk.eonline.com/uberblog/watch_with_kristin/b247011_spoiler_chat_which_true_blood_lead_goes.html

    ^ SPOILERS <-- i wasn't even looking up The Killing, first bloody text and she gives it away, bragging like a little girl :mad::mad:


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  • Registered Users Posts: 55,468 ✭✭✭✭Mr E


    Don't think so, Rich. She is still guessing (it's her guess from the start of the season).


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,871 ✭✭✭Conor108


    The little explore Rosie's room on AMC's site is pretty good. She has little video blogs on her laptop that are far more screen time she's ever gotten in the show.

    Here it is!


  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 17,990 Mod ✭✭✭✭ixoy


    Still going with my other theory that it's Richmond's aide - in fact seems more likely. It's not his gf, but the other guy trying to clean up Richmond's dirty secret.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 19,986 ✭✭✭✭mikemac


    What about that billionaire developer?
    Didn't he have young girls in his pool when the political aide came around.
    These rich guys, probably nobody ever says no to them and maybe he lost his temper with Rosie that night.

    Maybe someone in the campaign knows but it would sink Richmonds campaign if his biggest political donar was a killer

    I reckon Richmond is innocent, even despite the emails.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 21,634 ✭✭✭✭Richard Dower


    It's a ruse and red herring; re: Richmond....no question he was having an affair, this will sink him. Thing is...it also guarantees Richmond will be shot and killed...why?, his story/character is done.

    Having sex with a 16-year-old, illegal...not to mention ruin his career, ergo he'll be killed. What they'll do is the ep. will focus on Richmond with build up to finding and arresting him, Holder will do this part. Linden will be off on her own as she finds some clues that lead her to think Richmond didn't do it.

    She finds the evidence, rushes to the place where Richmond is, and boom!...there is holder going in for the arrest and bam!, dead Richmond, probably look like a suicide but then of course something will point to murder.


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  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 21,634 ✭✭✭✭Richard Dower


    :mad: load of BOLLOCKS!!!....i knew it!, i *knew* it wasn't Richmond....Holder faked the picture, so NOT ONLY did we NOT find out who killed Rosie they added ANOTHER cliffhanger with Belko, as in if he killed Richmond or not!

    Seriously load of shiite!, it was SUPPOSED to be closed ended, we're supposed to bloody find the killer, wrap things up.....but nah, typical US tv conversion, ooh we must have a cliffhanger in the hopes of a second season :rolleyes:

    FU Veena Sub and FU The Killing....i'm NOT runing in next season, show is a load of crap anyways! :mad:


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 21,634 ✭✭✭✭Richard Dower


    Read the comments, overwhelmingly negative!

    http://insidetv.ew.com/2011/06/19/the-killing-finale/

    Veena.....you lost alot of viewers tonight you bumbling idiot!!

    http://insidetv.ew.com/2011/06/19/the-killing-season-finale-two/

    Guys you MUST READ this review, supern and sums everything up perfectly: http://www.hitfix.com/blogs/whats-alan-watching/posts/the-killing-orpheus-descending-reviewing-the-season-finale

    "The Killing" wrapped up its first season tonight. I interviewed showrunner Veena Sud about the season, and highly recommend you read that before we get to my review of the finale, as I'll be discussing what she said a lot. My review - with plentiful spoilers for the episode, of course - coming up just as soon as me doing math is like a dog wearing a hat...

    When AMC announced the renewal of "The Killing," and that Veena Sud would remain in charge, I tried to be optimistic. The people who run AMC aren't dumb, I thought, and they know their brand and how the audience feels about it. If they were willing to make this move before airing the finale and seeing the reaction, it was because they had seen the final cut and thought it would quell a lot of the doubts people have had about the show, and/or because Sud had made a season 2 pitch for that acknowledged many of this season's missteps and talked smartly about how they would be eliminated going forward.

    Having seen the finale, and now talked to Sud, not so much on either account. "Orpheus Descending" itself is a mess, and an insult to the audience who have stuck around for the last three months. And based on my conversation with Sud, it sounds like we're getting more of the same next year.

    So this will be the last review I write of "The Killing," because this will be the last time I watch "The Killing." Because I have no interest in going forward with a show that treats its audience this way.

    I, like many of you, had grown so frustrated with the thin characterization and plotting based entirely around red herring cliffhangers that I was largely sticking it out to find out who killed Rosie...

    ...only they didn't tell us, instead going for one last mega-fake-out, in which we learn that Richmond was framed, by Holder (revealed to have a hidden agenda just when Linden was learning to like/trust him), working for a person or persons unknown for reasons unknown. And just as we learn that, Belko steps up to assassinate Richmond for what he believes is the damage he did to Belko's surrogate family.

    Not that I had loved the finale up to that point, but when we got to that final sequence, starting with Linden getting the phone call on the plane... well, let's just say that I began uttering a whole bunch of words that I've been hearing a lot in my "Deadwood" rewatch.

    Sud's argument is that no one involved with the show ever explicitly said the murder would be solved within the framework of these 13 episodes. I don't have the time or ability to study every single interview and piece of promotional material from the last six months to confirm that for sure, but if it was never explicitly stated, it was strongly implied. When you market a show with a poster of the dead girl's face and the tagline "Who Killed Rosie Larsen?," you are telling people that if they tune in, they will get an answer to that question, and in a reasonable amount of time.

    Now, in fairness, "Twin Peaks" had a similar marketing campaign back in the day, and they didn't close the case in the first season, but there were a couple of key differences. The first is that "Twin Peaks" wasn't based on a Danish show that had, in fact, solved its case within the confines of its first season (albeit a first season with 20 episodes to this show's 13), and therefore created an expectation of same in anyone who knew that. The second is that by the time that first "Twin Peaks" season had ended, it was clear that there were so, so many more reasons to watch and enjoy that show than simply finding out the killer's identity.

    At this point, "The Killing" has virtually nothing else. It utterly failed to make Rosie herself matter. It failed at making Stan and Mitch into anything but monotonous engines of grief. It failed to make the political campaign the least bit interesting at any point. And while it briefly turned Linden and Holder into three-dimensional humans with the episode a few weeks ago that put the investigation on hold, a lot of that was undercut by the Holder reveal here at the end. Obviously, the stuff about his addiction, his sister and his nephew was true, but the building of the relationship and trust with Linden wasn't.

    Sud also said that part of the point of ending the season this way was to remind the audience that this isn't a formula cop show, and they can throw out their expectations. But she's wrong. This show DOES have a formula, one that's very easy to anticipate now. Because all you really have to understand about "The Killing" - and what should have made me anticipate where the finale was going, only even I couldn't fathom that the creative team would so fundamentally misread their audience in that way - is this:

    Every single thing this show tells you is a lie.

    Forget about them not revealing the killer in the finale. That's a spirit of the law vs. the letter of the law question. This is about everything else.

    We were told that Sud and company would use the extended time to really get to know the characters in a way that a traditional police procedural can't. We haven't. Most of the characters have turned out to be ciphers (the Larsens), not who we were told they were (Holder) or both (Richmond).

    Nearly every episode of the series ended with a scene flashing a neon "Guilty!" sign at a new character, the better to lure us into watching the next episode, only for that episode to almost immediately clear that character. Sud tells me most of their early red herrings came from the Danish show. I haven't seen "Forbrydelsen," but based on the acclaim it received and the continued support it gets from people here who have watched both shows, even if the broad points were the same, I have to assume that the American creative team lost something major in the translation.

    Want More...
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    When last week's episode ended with Richmond standing ominously in the doorway staring down Linden, looking like the obvious killer, I worried that he would be one final red herring. Then we came into the finale, and the tension continued, complete with horror movie-style music whenever Linden and Richmond were in a scene together, and I wrote in my notes, "The only way this isn't manipulative and annoying in the extreme is if he actually did it." So when Holder turned up the final piece of evidence, I was relieved, even though it did feel like the case against him had some major holes in it. (Oakes remains a useless, dismissive, irritating plot device, but towards the end he had a vague point.) It wasn't a terribly satisfying or compelling conclusion to the case - and, as I'd said way back at the start of the season, it was almost an anti-climax, given how much time the show devoted to the political campaign even when it was entirely unrelated to the investigation - but at least it was A conclusion. We wanted to know who killed Rosie, and we found out, and it was a guy we'd spent a lot of time with, even though we learned very little about him and sometimes had trouble staying awake during his scenes.

    But then... to pull the rug out from under one last time, in grander fashion than ever before? On a show that many viewers have lost complete and total faith in? On a show where even the supportive reviews and comments have had an undercurrent of, "Let's wait for the finale; I'm sure there's a plan to all of this" to them? That's as colossal and unpleasant a miscalculation in a TV season finale as I can remember.

    Now, Sud says all of this was planned at the start of the season, and also that she paid very little attention to reviews or other feedback of the episode. And that's fine. Not only are creators not under obligation to follow all the ebbs and flows of viewer reaction, but it's often counter productive. Creativity by committee or crowdsourcing is rarely a good idea, and the best TV shows tend to be the ones made with a singular, uncompromising vision. Sud ultimately mad a bad, frustrating show, but she did it not knowing how people would respond to it and believing that her approach was the right one.

    But how does AMC not realize how viewers(*) are responding to this thing? Even if they thought this kind of ending was a great idea when the season started, how do they not head Sud off at the pass once it becomes clear how the show is being received? Or, if production was too far along at the point at which opinion started to turn against the show - or if AMC execs don't want to meddle midway through a season (as opposed to the messy split with the "Rubicon" creator after that pilot was shot) - how do they not even wait until the finale airs to decide for sure that they not only want another season, but want it with this creative team?

    (*) And, again, I acknowledge that viewership has stayed largely consistent for much of the season, that there remain some critics who like it, as well as some of you in the comments. It's entirely possible that the silent majority of the 2 million who have been tuning in most weeks do like it, and aren't just sticking it out from some sense of completism. And if that's true, and those people aren't as turned off by the finale than I was, then AMC was right to stick by Sud. But I will not be surprised in the least if the show returns in 2012 with a VASTLY smaller audience. Because not only did the ending leave a bad taste, but there's not even a promise of a fresh start next season. Same creative team, and same story, at least for a while. If you hated the finale, I can't imagine any reason to come back; nearly a year removed, even the people who just wanted to know who killed Rosie won't care anymore.

    I can understand that they might feel that A)viewers will be even angrier if this turned out to be the series finale, and when you're a niche network that's built a careful relationship with its core audience, you don't want to anger them that much; and B)this whole thing was Veena Sud's plan, and the story continues, and therefore there isn't an easy or sensible opportunity to bring in somebody else. Or they might just look at those 2 million viewers a week, assume everything's okay, and move on from there.

    But over the course of this season, "The Killing" has gone from a show that proved the AMC brand wasn't infallible to one that proves the channel is capable of putting out an absolute trainwreck.

    And the really frustrating part is that there actually were elements of the show that might have kept me watching if the writing was even a hair's breadth better and less insulting. The performances by the two cops and the Larsens remained terrific - just watch everything that washes over Brent Sexton's face as Stan ponders how to answer Amber's question about how many kids he has(**) - and the look and atmosphere were great (even if the constant torrential downpours eventually turned into a running joke). Even Linden's various confrontations with Richmond last week and this would have been effective if they had actually been about our heroine going toe-to-toe with the killer, and not just another in an unending series of fake-outs.

    (**) Though even that scene was impaired by more plot stupidity. No way does Amber not know who Stan Larsen is and what he looks like, either from earlier in the investigation as the father of her husband's murdered student, or from recent days as the man who beat her husband into a coma.

    But I don't care who killed Rosie, who's pulling Holder's strings or why, whether Belko succeeds in killing Richmond, how Linden will return from Sonoma, where Mitch went, or any of it.

    I've been lied to by this show for the last time. Good luck to those of you who continue with it into the second season.

    What did everybody else think?


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 21,634 ✭✭✭✭Richard Dower


    I've NEVER been so angered by a show ever!, the cheap and tacky bait and switch, the lies...the DISRESPECT to the viewers :mad:

    The Killing is my most hated show ever!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    :mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:

    http://uk.eonline.com/uberblog/watch_with_kristin/b248136_killings_shocking_finale_love_it_loathe.html?cmpid=rss-000000-rssfeed-365-topstories&utm_source=eonline&utm_medium=rssfeeds&utm_campaign=rss_topstories

    After a 100-mile, 12-episode detour—and more red herrings than could fill a Seattle fishing boat—show runner Veena Sud rewarded her audience's commitment with what amounted to a slap in the face.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 21,634 ✭✭✭✭Richard Dower


    tumblr_ln2kqq6hEk1qldi4ao1_1280.jpg?AWSAccessKeyId=AKIAJ6IHWSU3BX3X7X3Q&Expires=1308639996&Signature=%2BYJwCBtZ2xuRbk%2BnCooKirA2JjM%3D

    ^ sums everything up perfectly!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 19,986 ✭✭✭✭mikemac


    Ah Rosie.
    Young girl heading off to casinos late at night, meeting men, the family savings account is wiped out

    So who killed her?
    I don't care and won't be back for Season 2.

    Photoshop :rolleyes:

    As for Seattle Tourist Board, this show would put people off ever visiting that city. Wet, dirty and dreary.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,669 ✭✭✭DeepBlue


    Just glad I stuck with the original and didn't waste any time on this. :eek:
    Looks like they took a leaf from Lost's book on how to do finales i.e. let's see how many viewers we can piss off.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,533 ✭✭✭don ramo


    i liked the first season, i will be tuning in next season, as will you richard;) hows that ulcer working out these days :D

    im am kinda surprised they left it open at the end, you would have thought theyd finnish it off and start a fresh case next year, but things like this dont (and shouldnt) come in neat little packages,

    i wonder though what holder is up to, he requested that footage under his own badge, faked the photo but at the same time he requested it under lindens badge also, he must have known theyd contact linden about it, i wonder does someone still have him under there tumb from his past,

    i dunno why people are so worried about finding rosies killer so quick, the show is more about linden and holder and how they go about solving the case, i would assume theyll go deeper into the story next season, discover rosies killer while at the same time open a big old can of worms, or maybe itll theyll wrap rosies case early and a new case will start in ep 2 or 3,


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,533 ✭✭✭don ramo


    also i wonder will rosies aunt hand over rosies earnings to her family,


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 32,865 ✭✭✭✭MagicMarker


    I loved it, I couldn't see how they were going to wrap this up and then have a 2nd season on a completely different case. There's only so much content to fill 13 episodes and it would get very repetitive very quickly if they had to do that.

    I watched all 13 episodes yesterday and today and it was absolutely brilliant! One of the best shows on tv at the minute.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 23,556 ✭✭✭✭Sir Digby Chicken Caesar


    I suppose if I cared about this show i'd be upset by that finale but.. meh

    I do kind of admire the cojones of the writers to slap the audience in the face again with another "he definitely did it, olololol no he didn't bye".


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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,533 ✭✭✭don ramo


    I do kind of admire the cojones of the writers to slap the audience in the face again with another "he definitely did it, olololol no he didn't bye".
    i dont understand why its a slap in the face, 98% of tv shows end like this, with main issues left unresolved, its a murder mystery show, how exactly did people see this playing out,

    http://insidetv.ew.com/2011/06/19/the-killing-season-finale-two/

    source say that the larson case will wrap un early next season while another case will start before they wrap rosies case, thus there should be no lull at the start of season 2, rosies case wil still be open while we find out about the next case,

    rosies case might not wrap early as the sources say, but the showrunner said it will wrap at some point next season,


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,619 ✭✭✭fontanalis


    I suppose if I cared about this show i'd be upset by that finale but.. meh

    I do kind of admire the cojones of the writers to slap the audience in the face again with another "he definitely did it, olololol no he didn't bye".

    I think it was a bit too obvious for Richmond to be the killer; I thought it was more of a case of he was not squeaky clean and someone close to him found out about his shenanigans and done something about it.
    A couple things though; the doctoring of the photos, surely that would be uncovered easily and if the windows were tinted why is Richmond seen learly?


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,533 ✭✭✭don ramo


    fontanalis wrote: »
    A couple things though; the doctoring of the photos, surely that would be uncovered easily and if the windows were tinted why is Richmond seen learly?
    doctoring a photo would be easy, and tmk its illegal to have the front windows tinted as tint works both ways, so if a windscreen was tinted you would be able to see out,

    what i dont get is why holder requested the photos with lindens badge number, knowing that they would contact linden and not him, did he want to get caught, hes probably been backed into a corner by someone, and needs linden to help him get out,


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,081 ✭✭✭LeixlipRed


    Didn't see that ending coming at all. Second half of the season was much poorer than the first but I will definitely tune in again. Holder is a great character and I'm curious as to what he's up to. The car he gets into at the end has to belong to that sponsor of his from the first few episodes.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,103 ✭✭✭seadnamac


    That was so f*cking hilariously god awful bad that I'm not even angry about it. What an absolute steaming crock of sh*t. Not just the finale but the whole series. A whole boring, long-winded series with as many plot holes as Lost as they don't even tell us who killed her? Shower of cowboys. I won't be watching next season.

    Taken from another review, here's a list of things you would have to look past in order to somehow take this show seriously;

    • Rosie’s best friend borrows her wig, then has sex with her boyfriend in the school’s dank basement, while bleeding profusely from her nose, while another guy wearing a devil mask records it on his phone.
    • Also, a pervy janitor named after the late Lyndon Johnson is watching the whole thing happen.
    • Said janitor turns out to be pedophile, jumps out of window, ends up in hospital.
    • Rosie's parents don’t call their daughter all weekend, detectives never find out why.
    • Other seemingly basic things Holder and Linden don’t do until well after Bennet is cleared: scour Rosie’s computer (as in, not just take a quick look at her internet history); check the fuel levels and mileage of the car in which her dead body was found; call cab companies to see if anyone picked up a girl fitting Rosie’s description.
    • Stan buys house without telling his wife.
    • A teacher with a track record of dating his students also has an unusually close relationship with Rosie, but there’s nothing untoward going on between them.
    • Bennet helps a young Somali girl procure a fake passport so she can flee to Canada to avoid ritual circumcision.
    • Somali girl hides out in a meat locker that has been converted into a bedroom, which Linden and Holder happen to discover at the exact same moment as an FBI raid.
    • Somali girl also just so happens to have the exact same T-shirt as Rosie.
      Mitch waits a week to do laundry, so doesn’t find Rosie’s T-shirt until after Stan has beat the **** out of Bennet.
    • FBI agent leaves truck containing evidence unattended, door wide open.
    • Despite the fact that he’s facing murder charges, Bennet is unwilling to tell police what he was really doing the night of Rosie’s murder.
    • Mitch leaves her two surviving children in garage while car is running, forgets about them.
    • Between the school dance and her shift at the casino, Rosie felt the need to schlep out to Bennet’s house to return a book, even though she would have seen him Monday morning at school.
    • Bennet’s wife does not recognize the man who has already confessed to beating her husband into a coma, a man who is also the father of the girl Bennet was accused of killing.
    • Everything Holder has been doing all along has been part of an elaborate effort to frame Richmond.
    • Not 1 but 2 suspects in Rosie’s killing fall victim to acts of vigilante justice.
    • Creepy stalker Belko basically lives with Larsens and is infatuated with Rosie, but has nothing to do with her’s murder.
    • Neither does her sadistic ex-boyfriend.
    • Neither does Richmond, who is hung up on his dead wife, fixated with brunettes, and often says creepy, threatening things to escorts.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,103 ✭✭✭seadnamac


    Great quote I just read;

    The Killing ended last night in a manner we critics like to call "****ting the bed".

    http://blogs.houstonpress.com/artattack/2011/06/the_week_in_tv_the_killing_tes.php


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,065 ✭✭✭Tipsy McSwagger


    Just finished watching the last episode and my thoughts are that it's a stupid piece of shyte of a programme. It was beyond ridiculous. The cops find a secret place covered in blood and it was actually caused by the best friends nose bleed. There was bloody hand prints on the wall for christ's sake. I felt no pity for Rosie's family especially her mother. And I cringed every time her stereotypical Jewish granny was on screen. Why didnt Rosie run into the garage when she escaped the car? As for the ending it was ridiculous. Let's tie up everything and then hit us with another boring bombshell aaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhh.
    Who killed Rosie Larsen? I'm gonna guess it was the Seattle rain monster.

    Edit - I'm gonna watch an episode of the brilliant Breaking Bad to restore my faith in quality tv. Plus it has a white guy who talks like he's from the ghetto who is not annoying.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 21,634 ✭✭✭✭Richard Dower




  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 17,990 Mod ✭✭✭✭ixoy


    There is a HUGE backlash....never seen anything like it!
    Meh, the backlash is small compared to that against the BSG series finale.

    As it is though, this will act as my series finale for "The Killing". That was crap. It's grand to have a twist if it's well executed. Such twists make the viewer glance over previous episodes and think "Ahhh - that bit makes sense now" as they re-assess scenes. None of that here - there was no indication Holder was ever a dirty cop.
    In fact I don't quite care enough. Richard's post about the series as a whole sums up it perfectly. I just can't muster enough enthusiasm to feel any passion. *Shrug*


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  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 21,634 ✭✭✭✭Richard Dower


    ^ the pathetic part is.....Veena Sud is most likely playing the same game she has all season, ergo bait and switch. Holder will most likely refering to something else, as in the picture. I'll BET Belko will have either no bullets in the gun, safety on, or someone will stop him.....something utterly stupid to go with the rest of the season.

    It's a dreadfully written show, this is ALL Veena Sud!....her endless red herrings, her plotholes galore, resets, her formula.....build up a suspect right at the end of each episode....ooh he's the killer! (bait), start of following episode....oops!, he's not the killer (switch)....my bad, lets reset then and start all over again.

    If that isin't a formula i don't know what is....Sud is a moron + deluded and arrogant + a liar, i refuse to watch this show next season on principle, and because she is running this trainwreck!


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