WIT University

Sully · 15-03-2008 1:06am

merlante wrote: »

You followed up to one of my posts saying basically that people should be allowed to express their opinion, and with "Calling someone a troll because they judge things differently, is lame. Next time, it will be a ban."

Where did I say someone couldn't have an opinion? Why was the troll comment put in there if it wasn't directed at me?

I followed up because I believed you supported the troll comment and you were defending the posters comment. You never said he was a troll, and I never accused you. I was simply pointing out that students have a different view which has to be accepted whether you or mad_man like it or not.

The ban reference applied to the forum in general. Its personal abuse and was un called for. Sorry if you felt I meant it directly at you.

Here's what you said:
"However people inside in WIT who are students or who work with students problems judge the application differently then the report, government or you do."

You don't know what my perspective or background is and to be honest, it's not important.

What's important is whether an institution matches up to *objective* criteria or not. According to one expert, Dr. Port, it does.

Ah id know a fair bit about you alright. Wouldnt take much to find out what I needed, but thats besides the point and I never once even said your views were not important nor did I suggest I knew a lot about you. I know your connections with WIT - your entitled to an opinion (which to some I agree with) as are the rest of us. Even if we dont judge our comments like Dr. Port would.

merlante · 15-03-2008 1:33am

stick-dan wrote: »

If i was to guess your position i would say you're more than likely a TSSG employee and would benefit from an influx of funding of the research being conducted in the TSSG. if that was a right assumption by myself, then wouldn't you're opinion be biased????

This sort of comment sickens me to be honest, the idea that everyone has a cynical personal agenda, and anyone who would support a university in the south east is in some sense fumbling in the greasy till.

I am a vested interest in so far as I want what's best for the city and the region; a new university or WIT upgrade is a win-win for every man, woman and child in the region. Anyone who has a job in the WIT stands to gain a lot less than those who do not currently have a job, or those who are eager to do a particular Arts course locally, if only one were available. In fact, I hear tell that certain university pay grades are less than the equivalent IoT pay grades. Perhaps all WIT staff should come out against it.

merlante · 15-03-2008 1:47am

Sully wrote: »

Ah id know a fair bit about you alright. Wouldnt take much to find out what I needed, but thats besides the point and I never once even said your views were not important nor did I suggest I knew a lot about you. I know your connections with WIT - your entitled to an opinion (which to some I agree with) as are the rest of us. Even if we dont judge our comments like Dr. Port would.

Well a few posts back you thought I was someone else. What of it?

I'll tell you one thing though, every college in Ireland has a core of disgruntled students who spend all their time griping about the bad administration, petty corruption and poor facilities of the college. Maybe it's an Irish thing, I don't know.

The only thing that I am personally concerned about is that the objective view of the WIT, from an expert who has seen more than a college or two in his day, is that the WIT would not be out of place as a university in the UK or Canada. That is sufficient to say that the WIT is at least at the base level required to establish a university.

The south east needs a university for it to fulfill its potential (Goodbody report) and the WIT could serve as a good basis for a university (Port report). This is what matters.

Apologies for dragging the thread back on topic there!

Sully · 15-03-2008 2:43am

merlante wrote: »

Well a few posts back you thought I was someone else. What of it?

Just making sure I had the right person, thats all!

I'll tell you one thing though, every college in Ireland has a core of disgruntled students who spend all their time griping about the bad administration, petty corruption and poor facilities of the college. Maybe it's an Irish thing, I don't know.

Seems to be a fairly large core in WIT.

The only thing that I am personally concerned about is that the objective view of the WIT, from an expert who has seen more than a college or two in his day, is that the WIT would not be out of place as a university in the UK or Canada. That is sufficient to say that the WIT is at least at the base level required to establish a university.

The south east needs a university for it to fulfill its potential (Goodbody report) and the WIT could serve as a good basis for a university (Port report). This is what matters.

Apologies for dragging the thread back on topic there!

Again, lets not bother bringing that back (the whole why it should or shouldnt). Students expressed there views and you expressed yours. Lets leave it at that and move on with the conversation.

mad man · 15-03-2008 1:55pm

stick-dan wrote: »

Right first of all let's disregard the stupid comment made at me by that suspect poster, i don't entertain those comments and neither should ye although sully thank you for the support. So case closed on that one.

Don't feel vindicated because your mate backed you up

Sully wrote: »

Sorry, what? Knowing stick-dan personally and observing his posts on Boards I think its safe to say he is far from being a troll. Feel free to make your observations via the Report Button or by sending myself or Dub13 a PM.

Also contrary to what you said Stick-Dan's atitude on this thread has contained a degree of provocation and baiting and he has the neck to tell other people to grow up.He has also made similar posts on at least one thread in the Waterford forum. This in my view is tantamount to trolling and I stand by the accusation.It is irrelevenant what other contributions he has made to the boards. Stick Dan thinks Waterford IT is not ready to be upgraded to a University.I think on this thread he is trolling.At least there is some evidence to the latter. He obviously is from Carlow or at least has a strong affiliation with Carlow.He has come out defending Carlow on other threads and Carlow is one of the places he refers to below his avatar. His contribution on this thread therfore is not objective and is probably motivated by some parochial vested interest. This is a form of trolling and the fact that you don't know it or pretend it is not the case and then threaten bans on other people is a lack of consistency on your part.

The thrust of Stick Dan's arguement so far is that WIT is not ready to be upgraded. This is a ridiculous arguement and no reason to deny the upgrade.Institutes have been upgraded from a similar level before as has been said.Examples are Maynooth and DCU and Limerick. Also in this country in the last decade there has been government plans to build universitties from the ground up.Most recently in the Dublin Docklands.All the Universities have been built from the ground up including Limerick to some extent. The whole point of an upgrade is to bring WIT to a standard where it is able to grant awards and meet the demand of the regional third and fourth level needs which at the moment there exists a deficit which affects the whole region. Bear in mind if there is an upgrade there will still be an educational deficit compared to some of the other comparable regions. It is unfair to expect WIT to operate at the level of UCD,TCD,UL and other Univesities without a similar amount of capital funding.The fact that WIT is almost able to do this as is and according to Port would be a University in at least two G7 countries indicates that is is deserving of the upgrade.

The assertion by the college authorities that the problems would be resolved by a University upgrade is not some stab in the dark. The IT as it is has not been funded adequately for the number of students it has or for the level it is performing at.Consistently smaller colleges have been better funded yet WIT still operates at a higher level due to the vagaries of the parish pump style politics in this country.Also the propblems mentioned here regarding delayed exam results frequently plague other institutes themselves and also the Univestities. So therfore the problem isn't the organisation, it is the resources which would increase if there was an upgrade.An upgrade would provide a buffer from parochial interests which the university sector currently enjoys.

As for upgrading Carlow IT instead of WIT (which is really Stick Dan's beef).Why not? Well perhaps it's because Carlow IT is at the bottom of the league table that has been posted here along with Blanchardstown which is only about 7 years old and dropped five places in a year. Or the fact that contrary to what has been falaciously claimed Carlow is not the most central location and in fact is on the periphery.Waterford on the other hand has the highest population concentration in the South East and is equidistant to all the other main urban centres (Wexford,Clonmel and Kilkenny within 30 miles compared to 40-80 for Carlow) and has most of the smaller towns closer gain. Yes it makes absolute sense to make Carlow a University because they have an aeroplane which in real terms is the equivalent of a MK 2 Escort.Or because Stick Dan's mate said it was better instead of any empirical evidence.Yes the car park is not big enough and wait for it....students complained about priinters.

Sully · 15-03-2008 2:52pm

mad_man: Leave it rest and stop trying to create another argument. If you feel someone is trolling, report it. Otherwise, stop acting like a troll yourself by firing in comments to stir an argument. stick-dans views are supported by many students in WIT. Myself and ec18 expressed the same views here. We discussed them and debated them amongst everyone, and now the time has come to say "Cheere-o" to that part as its getting far to heated.

I never said Carlow should be a universtiy. I never said WIT should not be a university ever. I only backed up stick-dan when you decided to call him a troll. Not because I know him personaly but because he has been civil and he has expressed his views (supported by many students - go around and ask people in WIT, you will be supprised at their reaction!) in a civil manner and it seems that people are to wrapped up in themselves with this topic and refuse to listen or even consider a students view because they dont support the cause.

If you have a problem, report it. Otherwise, give it a rest. Thanks.

mad man · 15-03-2008 4:01pm

Report it to who? One of his buddies? Get real! It was Stick Dan who has reignited the arguemant with the gloating nature of the news CIT applied for University status. It was stick Stick Dan and others who has been firing in glib comments ad nauseum to wind up people who are campaigning for something for the betterment of the region and the whiney students that WIT is aparently is filled with if you are to be believed (which I don't). You have failed to moderate any of this and in my opinion this is because your obvious support for one side of this debate.As far as I'm concerned your merging of the two threads is for the same reason.Incidentally you're not the only one who has gone to WIT or knows people who go there.I have also gone to other institutes and Universities and worked with graduates from institutes all over this country. Have you or your buddies in WIT gone to or worked in any other institutes? Myself,Merlante and Frictatus have and have witnessed disorganistaion that you and others described in WIT.

Have you aked the views of students in TCD,UCD or UL?With the exception of UL I have heard similar complaints from students and co-workers who went there. So until you have some comparative analysis from students in these institutes then your hearsay means nothing. As for accusing you of suggesting Carlow IT should be upgraded I think you should read my post again.How many times do I have to mention Stick Dan's name for you to realise I am referring to Stick Dan.I think we might be getting to the root of the poor moderation here...

Sully · 15-03-2008 4:06pm

Reporting posts goes to Dub13, Smods/Admins. Not just me. If you have an issue with my moderating, and you cant take it to me, take it to one of the other mods or post in Feedback.

Again, it looks like im talking to a wall, stick-dan amongst others have expressed views that do not support yours. Im not going to delete a difference of opinion whether you like it or not. They never got personal, they made a point that was valid. Just because you dont agree with their point, does not mean I am a bad moderator.

Ill moderate anybody or any post I see breaks a Boards.ie Rules or Forum Charter. I dont care if its my mother, or my neighbour.

Again, problems: Go to feedback, Dub13 or any of the SMods/Admins. Drag it up on here again, and it will be removed. Continue, and you will be removed for ignoring a Boards.ie wide guideline. If you cant discuss a topic with a different opinion, dont discuss it at all.

End of.

merlante · 15-03-2008 8:48pm

Sully, this regurgitating of the 'is the WIT good enough' argument, that you are so keen and eager to avoid, was resumed by stick-dan, not me and not mad man. Since then the two of you have used the opportunity to pass a few smart comments about people's backgrounds and vested interests, and when the people involved defended themselves you wanted to change the subject. It's not something I want to start a boards.ie official tribunal over, but hopefully you'll take the bit of mild criticism.

While I think it may have been a bit strong of mad man to call stick dan a troll, stick dan was **** stirring with his tone whilst introducing the CIT upgrade into the debate, and mischievous in digging up the early part of this thread. You will notice that most people have lost interest in posting since this little diversion started.

The topic, as I remember it, was about other IoTs applying for university status in the midst of the WIT bid. Do either of you have anything to add that is on topic?

Incidentally, are we ever going to be allowed a second university thread on this board? If you keep merging threads, there'll be 20 pages worth of posts to read through before people can post. There would be an argument for splitting the topic, if anything, if such a thing were possible.

Sully · 15-03-2008 9:11pm

merlante wrote: »

Sully, this regurgitating of the 'is the WIT good enough' argument, that you are so keen and eager to avoid, was resumed by stick-dan, not me and not mad man. Since then the two of you have used the opportunity to pass a few smart comments about people's backgrounds and vested interests, and when the people involved defended themselves you wanted to change the subject. It's not something I want to start a boards.ie official tribunal over, but hopefully you'll take the bit of mild criticism.

Merlante, stick-dan barley touched on it. Iv just checked. He posted about CIT, felt he was being treated hostile towards, and briefly said he expressed his opinion already. You quoted him and tried to drag him into the conversation again and he politely refused. The "two of us" have NOT made smart comments about peoples backgrounds. stick-dan made an assumption (and he doesnt know anything about you) of who you are and what you do.

Please, at least get the facts right.

While I think it may have been a bit strong of mad man to call stick dan a troll, stick dan was **** stirring with his tone whilst introducing the CIT upgrade into the debate, and mischievous in digging up the early part of this thread. You will notice that most people have lost interest in posting since this little diversion started.

I think that yourself and mad_man made that incorrect assumption. Iv asked other mods to review it, in case I missed something, and we are all stumped. None of the mods who looked at are connected with me, stick-dan or anyone else I know. There completely netrual.

The topic, as I remember it, was about other IoTs applying for university status in the midst of the WIT bid. Do either of you have anything to add that is on topic?

Incidentally, are we ever going to be allowed a second university thread on this board? If you keep merging threads, there'll be 20 pages worth of posts to read through before people can post. There would be an argument for splitting the topic, if anything, if such a thing were possible.

Im waiting for Dub13 to make a decision on this and future threads. I think the topic is fine, its only just derailed and its been a great discussion up to now. I only merged your topic as I felt it didnt need a topic on its own and was better in here. A new Uni Topic.. what can we even discuss anymore?

stick-dan · 15-03-2008 9:14pm

stick-dan wrote: »

Cork Institute of Technology (CIT) have just applied for university status.Just to let you know. I was informed ofthis by MaximumLeo. Appartently some of the lecturers in the college are going mental over this.The link is here

I am leaving this thread now. There is no point in arguing over it. Just to defend myself i was not trolling. I was informed of the CIT application by a fellow boarder and since i had posted here before i brought it up to see what you thought.Look at the exact post i made above earlier which started this whole arguement. I am by no means implying any tone. Just informed you of what i was told and where to see the online report. I meant it objectively and by no means with any bias or hidden agenda. If it came across that way apologies as i didn't mean it to but i am pretty sure i protray no tone.If you actually study the posts following the above one i did defend WIT to the extent that i said i thought it was ahead of cork IT in quality.

As with regards to a poster saying that i am obviously associated with carlow. Indeed i am. I was born and raised there but i live in waterford the past two years and i now consider that my home more than i would carlow. As regard to me promoting carlows future university ambitions i never said carlow should i said that in the view of a few of my friends who have attended both WIT and carlow IT they see little or no difference between the two institutes and i was merely stating near the start of this thread that if there was such little a difference shouldn't carlow have the right to apply too. I never went and said "CARLOW FOR UNI STATUS" or anything like that and it is perceived that i did which is unfair. I expressed my friends views.

Merlante i do apologise for the TSSG remark, It was out of line and wrong of me to make such assumptions. I made it in the heat of the moment of being accused of "trolling" so i made that remark in haste for which i apologise.

Mad-man with regard to telling you to grow up, by no means is this trolling either it is self defence which i am sure you would do in my case. Not nice being called a troll and constructive criticism may be a better way to get at someone next time.

Anyways Enjoy the debate...

Dub13 · 16-03-2008 4:07pm

Ok folks for a start lets get this back on topic,if anybody has a problem with this thread or forum take it to feedback and let this thread get on topic.

Mods are able to have opinions as well.I have reviewed the thread and everything seems fine.I will be keeping an eye on it and I have never even been to Waterford therefore I have absolutely no connections to the area.

Again this has been a good thread lets get it back on topic,if anybody has an issue take it to feedback.

nesf · 16-03-2008 4:54pm

Beyond parochial desires to have a university on your doorstep, within the context of Ireland, we don't need another university diluting the value of degrees in this country. It's not like people from Waterford don't have access to many good universities already. People are no more entitled to a university on their doorstep than they are a hospital, if you want the advantages of a large city, then move to one.

The IT system most definitely has its place in our third level system, they don't offer lesser versions of university degrees they offer different qualifications altogether. For all the fun of the UCC/CIT rivalry it is a fact that the grads leaving both were snapped up by companies for different reasons (I'm generalising horribly here). For years (perhaps not nowadays, I've no friends who recently graduated from either institution) if you wanted a hands on practical IT guy you hired the CIT grad, if you wanted a more abstract programmer guy you hired a UCC guy. The pay grades were fairly similar once both got experience, and I'm horribly generalising here, but the IT grads weren't lesser cousins of the UCC grads, they just had undergone a different kind of training.

Removing ITs and calling them all universities just to give an ego boost to some people would be a bad thing imho.

Dac51 · 16-03-2008 7:42pm

Beyond parochial desires to have a university on your doorstep, within the context of Ireland, we don't need another university diluting the value of degrees in this country.

WIT is only asking for parity in eductional investment for the south-east region. It is not a desire to have a university on our doorstep.

It's not like people from Waterford don't have access to many good universities already.

Like where? Cork is 120km from Waterford, Limerick 120km, Dublin 160km and Galway 230km. If UCC didn't exist would the people of Cork claim that have good access to universities?

People are no more entitled to a university on their doorstep than they are a hospital, if you want the advantages of a large city, then move to one.

I stress again that WIT is not looking for university status for parochial reasons. A university in Waterford would benefit the whole south-east region and that is the intention.

Also remember that Waterford is one of only five cities in the Republic of Ireland under the 2001 Local Government Act. Waterford has also been designated as a Gateway city under the NSS. Galway and Limerick are not that much bigger than Waterford and I would dare say that Waterford's catchment area is bigger than Galway. Why shouldn't we consider ourselves on a par with these two cities?

The IT system most definitely has its place in our third level system, they don't offer lesser versions of university degrees they offer different qualifications altogether. For all the fun of the UCC/CIT rivalry it is a fact that the grads leaving both were snapped up by companies for different reasons (I'm generalising horribly here). For years (perhaps not nowadays, I've no friends who recently graduated from either institution) if you wanted a hands on practical IT guy you hired the CIT grad, if you wanted a more abstract programmer guy you hired a UCC guy. The pay grades were fairly similar once both got experience, and I'm horribly generalising here, but the IT grads weren't lesser cousins of the UCC grads, they just had undergone a different kind of training.

Try telling that to foreign companies wishing to invest in Ireland. They will try and locate in university regions first rather places with IT's.

Removing ITs and calling them all universities just to give an ego boost to some people would be a bad thing imho.

Ego boost? :rolleyes: Give me a break FFS. WIT's application is based on social, economic and of course eductional needs for current and future generations. CIT and other institutes have tried to jump on the bandwagon with their recent statements, jealous that they are nowhere near the level WIT is performing at now. A repeat of 1996 when WRTC was upgraded to WIT.

I think the last post was just more trolling on this thread. :mad:

nesf · 16-03-2008 7:56pm

Dac51 wrote: »

Like where? Cork is 120km from Waterford, Limerick 120km, Dublin 160km and Galway 230km. If UCC didn't exist would the people of Cork claim that have good access to universities?

You don't get it. If UCC didn't exist there wouldn't be easy access to a university for huge swathes of Munster barring those tucked up close to UL. Waterford simply isn't on the same regional importance as Cork City. It has no where close to the same catchment area depending on it because most of what's north of it is within Dublin's sphere of influence. Same as Cork city isn't anywhere close to the same regional importance as Dublin is and it's why drawing like to like comparisons between the cities can be very misleading.

Universities, apart from the historic oddity that is Maynooth, are based in the economic centres. Most of the "south east" is simply catchment areas for the sprawling mass that is Dublin city and the rest feeds into Cork's area, admittedly to a lesser extent. Services, especially medical and third level educational ones, benefit hugely from centralised spending and centres of excellence. Splitting funding from Dublin and Cork to fund a university in Waterford makes no sense. Funds aren't just going to magically spring up to support it and cuts will be made in other institutions to pay for it, or from elsewhere in the budget.

This isn't a big country. The argument should be about improving the south east's transportation network to make access to the existing regional centres better, for a multitude of reasons not trying to create a quasi separate region which is already divided by the influences of the country's two biggest cities.

Sully · 16-03-2008 8:12pm

I think we dont have many good universities to be honest. Limerick and Trinity are probably two of Irelands best universities.

nesf · 16-03-2008 8:18pm

Sully wrote: »

I think we dont have many good universities to be honest. Limerick and Trinity are probably two of Irelands best universities.

UCC has excellent departments in some areas, not so excellent in others (I refuse to go into more detail because it'll just become a my department vs your department slagging match), the rest of the colleges are similar. Which ones are good just depends on what departments you put more value on. I wouldn't rate UL very highly for instance. Trinity is really good in many areas but it's overrated in others etc.

Sully · 16-03-2008 8:28pm

nesf wrote: »

UCC has excellent departments in some areas, not so excellent in others (I refuse to go into more detail because it'll just become a my department vs your department slagging match),

Thats the exact same in WIT. The stories I hear about certain departments is pretty freaky.

Sully · 16-03-2008 8:31pm

Dac51 wrote: »

I think the last post was just more trolling on this thread. :mad:

I dont know how many times I have to remind people..

Spot a troll? Report it.

Dont want to report it to me? Ask Dub13 or any of the SMods to look into it.

Failing that, go to Feedback.

Next person to call anybody a troll will be infracted. Just because you dont agree with their point of view, does not make them a troll.

nesf · 16-03-2008 8:34pm

Sully wrote: »

Thats the exact same in WIT. The stories I hear about certain departments is pretty freaky.

Yeah that's pretty much what I've heard too. Departments can change in a remarkably short period of time though. One or two people leaving and be replaced by different people can make all the difference, both in good and bad directions.

Sully · 16-03-2008 8:37pm

nesf wrote: »

Yeah that's pretty much what I've heard too. Departments can change in a remarkably short period of time though. One or two people leaving and be replaced by different people can make all the difference, both in good and bad directions.

Out of curiosity. Do you know how many people prepare the timetable in UCC?

nesf · 16-03-2008 8:40pm

Sully wrote: »

Out of curiosity. Do you know how many people prepare the timetable in UCC?

I've no idea. It's meant to be a bureaucratic nightmare, though I've heard it's been improving.

Essexboy · 16-03-2008 8:49pm

Roanmore wrote: »

Just read a discussion on another website (link below) which says Mary Hanafin is set to refuse University status for WIT. Just wondering if this is a definite decision or whether it's just rehashed, the thread was only started today.

http://www.politics.ie/viewtopic.php?t=31636

An institution without a Humanities Department cannot be regarded as a university. WIT and other ITs want to be called "university" because of academic snobbery :mad:

Sully · 16-03-2008 8:54pm

nesf wrote: »

I've no idea. It's meant to be a bureaucratic nightmare, though I've heard it's been improving.

Just curious as to how other colleges/universties did it - as the main problems with WITs timetable has been due to one person been doing it on her own. Seems like a big job for one person!

Bards · 16-03-2008 9:17pm

NESF please stick to your soap box in Cork, Waterford is a City and Ireland's oldest and first City. If it wasn't for political interference Waterford would be far more important than it currently is.

I have read many report pre Ireland joining the EEC (as it was then called) and they all though the S.E and Waterford would benefit enormously due to its closness to Europe. But as always politics got in the way etc etc

Waterford's inhabitants and that of the region expect and demand to be treated with equity among its peers we do not want or need to add to the cronic overcrowding and bad planning that is Dublin.

The S.E can function as an entity onto intself as long as we are given the same tools as the other peer cities with which to work. It is unfair to ask us to compete on a global never mind national stage with one hand tied behind our backs.

We cetaintly do not take kindly to Soapbox preachers telling us what we can and cannot have

Time Magazine · 17-03-2008 11:45am

I come from Kildare but live in univeristy in Dublin. I could commute, but it would take ninety minutes each way to drive. It's all because of this bloody government. Leixlip is a historic town, the true home of Guinness, was once besieged by Vikings and it used to hold Boomtown Rats concerts. It has a proud history and a fine GAA club. It's a natonal travesty that I should have to move an hour away from home, crippling myself with debt that will take at least six months to pay off, so that I may enjoy close proximity to one of the best universities in Europe. My Supreme God-Given right to stay within ten miles of my birthplace is being contravened and the Town of Leixlip is entitled to, and hereby claims, the allegiance of every Leixlipman and Leixlipwoman. It is thus in the name of the ridiculously-politicised National Spatial Strategy that I demand that NUIM be brought up to the standard of Trinity or, at least, Trinity be brought down to the level of NUIM. In the same way that no person from Waterford could ever possibly benefit from Intel and Hewlett-Packard establishing in Leixlip, Leixlip cannot continue in line with Dublin lest the higher-educational spend is equalised nationally with no regard for such ridiculous uber-capitalist ideas such as "population density" and "reason". Furthermore, I will insist on bemoaning the lack of equality of spending on a geographical basis without due regard for the distribution of the creation of tax revenue or the distribution of other sources of spending because let's be honest, Waterford Leixlip is demanding an equal slice of this pie when it's getting an excessive share of others. And sure we can always chalk it up to planning and spacer strategy anyway.

Bards · 17-03-2008 12:00pm

Ibid wrote: »

I come from Kildare but live in univeristy in Dublin. I could commute, but it would take ninety minutes each way to drive. It's all because of this bloody government. Leixlip is a historic town, the true home of Guinness, was once besieged by Vikings and it used to hold Boomtown Rats concerts. It has a proud history and a fine GAA club. It's a natonal travesty that I should have to move an hour away from home, crippling myself with debt that will take at least six months to pay off, so that I may enjoy close proximity to one of the best universities in Europe. My Supreme God-Given right to stay within ten miles of my birthplace is being contravened and the Town of Leixlip is entitled to, and hereby claims, the allegiance of every Leixlipman and Leixlipwoman. It is thus in the name of the ridiculously-politicised National Spatial Strategy that I demand that NUIM be brought up to the standard of Trinity or, at least, Trinity be brought down to the level of NUIM. In the same way that no person from Waterford could ever possibly benefit from Intel and Hewlett-Packard establishing in Leixlip, Leixlip cannot continue in line with Dublin lest the higher-educational spend is equalised nationally with no regard for such ridiculous uber-capitalist ideas such as "population density" and "reason". Furthermore, I will insist on bemoaning the lack of equality of spending on a geographical basis without due regard for the distribution of the creation of tax revenue or the distribution of other sources of spending because let's be honest, Waterford Leixlip is demanding an equal slice of this pie when it's getting an excessive share of others. And sure we can always chalk it up to planning and spacer strategy anyway.

I see that geography is not taught very well in Leixlip, for if it was you would understand that Waterford is only one of Five Cities in this republic of ours and the only one not to have a University. We are only asking for what every other Irish City has - Nothing more and nothing less.

there are four Universities in the greater dublin area not to mention the IT's for a population of 1m which equates to one University for every 250,000 inhabitants

Whereas in the S.E region we have 12% of the republic's population of 460,000 inhabitants and no access to University unless we travel outside the region which is not right and is unfair and can be considered apartheid.

We are not advocating that every little town and village gets a University- but an Urban Centre like Waterford supporting 170,000 people within it's immediate hinterland must.

nesf · 17-03-2008 12:01pm

Bards wrote: »

We cetaintly do not take kindly to Soapbox preachers telling us what we can and cannot have

Ah, yes, parochialism at its finest. I'm not a city man, I grew up in a rural, underdeveloped and underfunded part of Cork country far from the services and amenities of the more urban areas. The nearest surgical services, or bluntly the nearest hospital if you don't count retirement homes with medical services as hospitals (ie country hospitals) as proper hospitals was an hour's drive over the mountains away. Not fun when someone is in a critical condition and needs to get to intensive care. Don't even think about mentioning jobs, never mind anything you need a third level education to get. When I chose to go to college I was also choosing to not live in my home area unless I wanted an hourish commute every day on bad roads and living with hardly any services. I know more about living far away from developed urban areas than any lifelong Waterford city resident ever will, yet since Cork is listed as my location the assumption is that I'm some coddled city boy coming in here to preach about how Waterford people should just accept Cork city's obvious dominance over them.

Get over the parochialism and quit with the personal crap aimed at people who happen to disagree with you, or acting with the parish mentality that other people's opinions are somehow not valid because they don't happen to share the weight of the parochial burden.

Sully · 17-03-2008 1:06pm

Constructive Comments only please lads.

Dac51 · 17-03-2008 5:55pm

nesf wrote: »

Ah, yes, parochialism at its finest. I'm not a city man, I grew up in a rural, underdeveloped and underfunded part of Cork country far from the services and amenities of the more urban areas. The nearest surgical services, or bluntly the nearest hospital if you don't count retirement homes with medical services as hospitals (ie country hospitals) as proper hospitals was an hour's drive over the mountains away. Not fun when someone is in a critical condition and needs to get to intensive care. Don't even think about mentioning jobs, never mind anything you need a third level education to get. When I chose to go to college I was also choosing to not live in my home area unless I wanted an hourish commute every day on bad roads and living with hardly any services. I know more about living far away from developed urban areas than any lifelong Waterford city resident ever will, yet since Cork is listed as my location the assumption is that I'm some coddled city boy coming in here to preach about how Waterford people should just accept Cork city's obvious dominance over them.

Get over the parochialism and quit with the personal crap aimed at people who happen to disagree with you, or acting with the parish mentality that other people's opinions are somehow not valid because they don't happen to share the weight of the parochial burden.

NESF, your comments are seen as parochial by a lot of people here. From our point of view it is almost like you are telling us to bow down and accept Dublin / Cork dominance over the south east region. The NSS was designed to a) move away from a Dublin dominated country and b) to allow all regions to support themselves economically with Gateway cities providing critical mass. How is the south-east region supposed to do this when it has no university unlike other regions which all have universities? Should we just scrap the NSS now and be thankful that Cork is "only down the road"?