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Why do you hate Irish?

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12467…51

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    #92
    Dughorm
    Closed Accounts Posts: 895 ✭✭✭Dughorm


    ancapailldorcha wrote: »
    Irish has no value beyond providing fresh meat to the broken system which forces it down pupils' throats.

    But it does.... just not economic ones for the most of us.


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    #93
    ancapailldorcha
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 37,215 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »
    Nobody ever criticizes History being taught in schools even though it is probably the most pointless subject there is. It's great fun and everything and I loved it in school but Henry Ford was 100% right when he said it was nonsense as we're not going back to the past so why bother yourself thinking about it when you can't do anything to change it.

    I'm genuinely lost for words here.

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith



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    #94
    Iwasfrozen
    Registered Users Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭Iwasfrozen


    Dughorm wrote: »
    Is that your stance regarding the need for a 3rd language for admission to several universities here also?

    Yep


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    #95
    ancapailldorcha
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 37,215 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    Dughorm wrote: »
    But it does.... just not economic ones for the most of us.

    So the state should bear the absurd of propping up the scrounging Irish language lobby.

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith



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    #96
    Dirty Dingus McGee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,631 ✭✭✭Dirty Dingus McGee


    ancapailldorcha wrote: »
    Ah, that old strawman. I was wondering when it would appear. Maybe we should just have kids work in sweatshops then? Take back some of those jobs from China?

    You've argued that teaching Irish was pointless but so are so many other subjects yet nobody ever suggests we should get rid of a wide range of subjects that are taught in school.Irish is about as pointless as any other subject in school and your suggestion of having an education tailored to each individual student isn't remotely practical.


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    #97
    Dughorm
    Closed Accounts Posts: 895 ✭✭✭Dughorm


    ancapailldorcha wrote: »
    So the state should bear the absurd of propping up the scrounging Irish language lobby.

    Lol, not quite where I was going....but anyway...

    Not economic reasons, but for reasons of culture, history and heritage. Some might include political reasons but I don't personally.


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    #98
    Dirty Dingus McGee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,631 ✭✭✭Dirty Dingus McGee


    ancapailldorcha wrote: »
    I'm genuinely lost for words here.


    Why?

    History is a pointless subject . I've not had one single practical benefit in my working life from my knowledge of the causes of world war 2 and all the other stuff I learned in history classes in school.


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    #99
    ancapailldorcha
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 37,215 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    Dughorm wrote: »
    Lol, not quite where I was going....but anyway...

    Not economic reasons, but for reasons of culture, history and heritage. Some might include political reasons but I don't personally.

    So it's the "ah sure, it's our culture" nonsense then. Why not campaign for roof-thatching, farming, paganism and so on to be included in our curriculum given that it's so important then?

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith



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    #100
    ancapailldorcha
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 37,215 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »
    You've argued that teaching Irish was pointless but so are so many other subjects yet nobody ever suggests we should get rid of a wide range of subjects that are taught in school.Irish is about as pointless as any other subject in school and your suggestion of having an education tailored to each individual student isn't remotely practical.

    That's the point. The rest of the curriculum is based on estimating where pupils are most likely to go after school. It needs updating to include IT as well as allocating more time to science and engineering but until personalised education becomes commonplace this is the best approach.

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith



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    #101
    ted1
    Registered Users Posts: 23,271 ✭✭✭✭ted1


    ancapailldorcha wrote: »
    So the state should bear the absurd of propping up the scrounging Irish language lobby.

    You have an Interesting Username...


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    #102
    ancapailldorcha
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 37,215 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »
    You've argued that teaching Irish was pointless but so are so many other subjects yet nobody ever suggests we should get rid of a wide range of subjects that are taught in school.Irish is about as pointless as any other subject in school and your suggestion of having an education tailored to each individual student isn't remotely practical.

    They're useful. This isn't a reason for keeping Irish by the way.

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith



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    #103
    Dughorm
    Closed Accounts Posts: 895 ✭✭✭Dughorm


    ancapailldorcha wrote: »
    So it's the "ah sure, it's our culture" nonsense then. Why not campaign for roof-thatching, farming, paganism and so on to be included in our curriculum given that it's so important then?

    Well obviously I'd insist that the literature on the syllabus would include encomiums of roof-thatching, farming and paganism - just to cover all the bases ya know :pac:


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    #104
    The King of Moo
    Registered Users Posts: 8,207 ✭✭✭The King of Moo


    ancapailldorcha wrote: »
    So the state should bear the absurd of propping up the scrounging Irish language lobby.

    There are huge benefits to primary-age children learning a second language. Exposure to a language outside of the classroom is also crucial for normalisation and consolidation of a language in people of all ages but especially children. They need immersion, or as close to it as possible to effectively learn, and most Irish children will encounter more Irish in this way than any other language.

    Do you think Irish should be taught (well) in primary schools, another language, or no second language at all at that stage?


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    #105
    Peregrine
    Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 26,399 Mod ✭✭✭✭Peregrine


    I don't hate Irish. I hated the way it was taught in school.
    Pac1Man wrote: »
    Léigh anois go cúramach ar do scrúdpháipéar na treoracha agus na ceisteanna a ghabhann le cuid A.

    BEEEEEEEEEP


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    #106
    Dirty Dingus McGee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,631 ✭✭✭Dirty Dingus McGee


    ancapailldorcha wrote: »
    They're useful. This isn't a reason for keeping Irish by the way.

    It's never a good idea to let a language die out so there is a perfectly good reason to keep Irish on the curriculum.If anything more emphasis should be put on it a primary school so that everyone coming out of primary school is fluent in the language.


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    #107
    ancapailldorcha
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 37,215 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    The King of Moo wrote: »
    There are huge benefits to primary-age children learning a second language. Exposure to a language outside of the classroom is also crucial for normalisation and consolidation of a language in people of all ages but especially children. They need immersion, or as close to it as possible to effectively learn. Do you think Irish should be taught (well) in primary schools, another language, or no second language at all at that age?

    What are these benefits? I'd make it optional for children to learn a second language, ideally German, Spanish or Mandarin.

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith



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    #108
    strelok
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,162 ✭✭✭strelok


    The King of Moo wrote: »
    There are huge benefits to primary-age children learning a second language. Exposure to a language outside of the classroom is also crucial for normalisation and consolidation of a language in people of all ages but especially children. They need immersion, or as close to it as possible to effectively learn. Do you think Irish should be taught (well) in primary schools, another language, or no second language at all at that age?


    learning a second language that might be of some benefit to children in their future is one thing. banging their heads against a wall learning a dead language everybody knows is only being taught to appease a tiny minority of cultural purists is quite another


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    #109
    ancapailldorcha
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 37,215 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »
    It's never a good idea to let a language die out so there is a perfectly good reason to keep Irish on the curriculum.If anything more emphasis should be put on it a primary school so that everyone coming out of primary school is fluent in the language.

    I've explained this many times over these threads. The current system is choking the life out of it, plain and simple. It's not about teaching the language, it's about the self-interest of the teachers' unions, the Irish language lobby, etc...

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith



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    #110
    strelok
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,162 ✭✭✭strelok


    ancapailldorcha wrote: »
    I've explained this many times over these threads. The current system is choking the life out of it, plain and simple. It's not about teaching the language, it's about the self-interest of the teachers' unions, the Irish language lobby, etc...

    new law coming in next year that all online posts made in Ireland must be translated into Irish too.


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    #111
    Dughorm
    Closed Accounts Posts: 895 ✭✭✭Dughorm


    strelok wrote: »
    learning a second language that might be of some benefit to children in their future is one thing. banging their heads against a wall learning a dead language everybody knows is only being taught to appease a tiny minority of cultural purists is quite another

    And yet if Irish was declared dead and removed from syllabi in the morning there'd be widespread uproar - perhaps because the "cultural purists" aren't running the show, there's actually widespread support in the general population for people to know more about Irish and it's impressive literary corpus.


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    #112
    Sh1tbag OToole
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,973 ✭✭✭Sh1tbag OToole


    ancapailldorcha wrote: »
    So it's the "ah sure, it's our culture" nonsense then. Why not campaign for roof-thatching, farming, paganism and so on to be included in our curriculum given that it's so important then?

    Roof thatching is not a bad skill to be thought in school. Even if they never thatch another roof it'd learn 'em the value of good workmanship. Preferably they should thatch the bit of roof directly above them


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    #113
    starry_eyed
    Closed Accounts Posts: 72 ✭✭starry_eyed


    Sh1tbag OToole wrote: »
    Roof thatching is not a bad skill to be thought in school. Even if they never thatch another roof it'd learn 'em the value of good workmanship. Preferably they should thatch the bit of roof directly above them

    It's a dying trade apparently. I know someone who is trained in it though.


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    #114
    masti123
    Registered Users Posts: 661 ✭✭✭masti123


    ancapailldorcha wrote: »
    So it's the "ah sure, it's our culture" nonsense then. Why not campaign for roof-thatching, farming, paganism and so on to be included in our curriculum given that it's so important then?

    A lot of that is covered in history class, with paganism occasionally being covered in religion, generally not Celtic paganism.
    There are two school subjects( ag econ and ag science) dedicated to agriculture currently at LC level, with chemistry and biology also including several agricultural components. I believe the business subjects also deal with it a bit as well. Developments and traditional farming methods are covered in JC history. JC science and business also deal with aspects of farming.

    However, the above aside, the Irish language has a much bigger influence on our culture today than those. Paganism only influences our culture in the sense of how it has influence Christianity here, which isn't a whole lot in the sense of Celtic paganism. Thatched roofs are part of a traditional image of Ireland, but I wouldn't describe them as part of the cultural makeup of ourselves, no more than slate roofs are today.


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    #115
    ancapailldorcha
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 37,215 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    Dughorm wrote: »
    And yet if Irish was declared dead and removed from syllabi in the morning there'd be widespread uproar - perhaps because the "cultural purists" aren't running the show, there's actually widespread support in the general population for people to know more about Irish and it's impressive literary corpus.

    Because there are plenty of begrudgers who would deny the next generation the chance to skip it. It is dead in any case. The market has no interest in it, neither do people at large once the expensive token gestures are made.
    Sh1tbag OToole wrote: »
    Roof thatching is not a bad skill to be thought in school. Even if they never thatch another roof it'd learn 'em the value of good workmanship. Preferably they should thatch the bit of roof directly above them

    While the US multinationals who fuel the economy have to import staff. This attitude is exactly why so many people have had to emigrate.

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith



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    #116
    ancapailldorcha
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 37,215 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    masti123 wrote: »
    However, the above aside, the Irish language has a much bigger influence on our culture today than those.

    Such as?

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith



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    #117
    Dirty Dingus McGee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,631 ✭✭✭Dirty Dingus McGee


    ancapailldorcha wrote: »
    They're useful. This isn't a reason for keeping Irish by the way.

    Most of what you learn in school is not useful in any practical way.I spent thousands of hours studying subjects for my leaving cert that ceased to be of any use to me once I finished my exams.


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    #118
    Dughorm
    Closed Accounts Posts: 895 ✭✭✭Dughorm


    ancapailldorcha wrote: »
    Because there are plenty of begrudgers who would deny the next generation the chance to skip it. It is dead in any case. The market has no interest in it, neither do people at large once the expensive token gestures are made.

    When did "the market" ever have an interest in it? Why does "the market" trump beauty, wisdom and tradition?


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    #119
    ancapailldorcha
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 37,215 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »
    Most of what you learn in school is not useful in any practical way.I spent thousands of hours studying subjects for my leaving cert that ceased to be of any use to me once I finished my exams.

    Why does this mean we should keep indulging the Irish language lobby? If all else fails, shift the goalposts I suppose...

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith



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    #120
    Iwasfrozen
    Registered Users Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭Iwasfrozen


    Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »
    People are forced to do Maths even though leaving cert maths will be completely useless to the vast majority of people who study it.
    Maths shouldn't be compulsory, but that's another matter. This thread is about Irish.


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    #121
    Dughorm
    Closed Accounts Posts: 895 ✭✭✭Dughorm


    ancapailldorcha wrote: »
    Such as?

    Ah now - have you ever stepped foot outside of Dublin? It influences rhythms of speech, humour, vocabulary, legacy - I don't know where to start :D


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