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Sanctity of Life (Abortion Megathread)

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    #2582
    cattolico
    Closed Accounts Posts: 208 ✭✭cattolico


    eviltwin wrote: »
    The only difference is in how you word it.

    No. Doctors respect both lives and look to save both lives. That is medically not always possible. Doctors don't let pregnant women die, it's morally wrong from a secular and religious point of view.


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    #2583
    frag420
    Registered Users Posts: 6,158 ✭✭✭frag420


    cattolico wrote: »
    No. Doctors respect both lives and look to save both lives. That is medically not always possible. Doctors don't let pregnant women die, it's morally wrong from a secular and religious point of view.

    Is there someone who could proof read your posts before you hit the send button. It would do us all a huge favour of you did.


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    #2584
    Delirium
    Moderators Posts: 51,724 ✭✭✭✭Delirium


    cattolico wrote: »
    No. Doctors respect both lives and look to save both lives. That is medically not always possible. Doctors don't let pregnant women die, it's morally wrong from a secular and religious point of view.

    Do you consider it moral to require a woman carry on with a pregnancy for 5 weeks even though it was eventually delivered stillborn?

    If you can read this, you're too close!



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    #2585
    robdonn
    Registered Users Posts: 1,107 ✭✭✭robdonn


    Suspect in Planned Parenthood attack said 'no more baby parts' after arrest


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    #2586
    Kev W
    Registered Users Posts: 2,536 ✭✭✭Kev W


    robdonn wrote: »
    Suspect in Planned Parenthood attack said 'no more baby parts' after arrest

    Oh and I suppose you think THAT proves he was a pro-lifer? For all we know he was a disgruntled child actor. Can you prove he wasn't no you can't case closed I can't hear you lalalala...


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    #2587
    MrPudding
    Registered Users Posts: 9,788 ✭✭✭MrPudding


    Kev W wrote: »
    Oh and I suppose you think THAT proves he was a pro-lifer? For all we know he was a disgruntled child actor. Can you prove he wasn't no you can't case closed I can't hear you lalalala...

    Yeah, pro-life. What a joke. I think it is quite telling that the medical staff have a "procedure" that they following during attacks.

    MrP


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    #2588
    Overheal
    Registered Users Posts: 81,919 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    And now all of the conservatives who have been railing against PP are starting to revise their narratives for the cameras

    http://www.forwardprogressives.com/mike-huckabee-compares-planned-parenthood-with-benghazi-seriously/


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    #2589
    c_man
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,436 ✭✭✭c_man


    MrPudding wrote: »
    Yeah, pro-life. What a joke. I think it is quite telling that the medical staff have a "procedure" that they following during attacks.

    I don't think so*, I have friends working as software engineers in the states and they have mandatory training on how to handle an "active shooter situation".


    *other than the US is a bit messed up to say the least


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    #2590
    frag420
    Registered Users Posts: 6,158 ✭✭✭frag420


    The High Court in Belfast rules abortion legislation in Northern Ireland is in breach of human rights laws

    More to follow no doubt..........


    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-34963159


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    #2591
    MrPudding
    Registered Users Posts: 9,788 ✭✭✭MrPudding


    frag420 wrote: »
    The High Court in Belfast rules abortion legislation in Northern Ireland is in breach of human rights laws

    More to follow no doubt..........


    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-34963159

    Yes. I don't think this will even be half the battle...

    MrP


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    #2592
    robdonn
    Registered Users Posts: 1,107 ✭✭✭robdonn


    MrPudding wrote: »
    Yes. I don't think this will even be half the battle...

    MrP

    The next course of action is obvious though, we need to get rid of those pesky human rights.


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    #2593
    MrPudding
    Registered Users Posts: 9,788 ✭✭✭MrPudding


    robdonn wrote: »
    The next course of action is obvious though, we need to get rid of those pesky human rights.

    That's what the tories are trying to do. This is what people don't realise. Human rights aren't just about allowing terrorist to stay in Britain because they have a cat, they are also about a woman's right to murder her own precious baby without the inconvenience of having to travel to another country. People often lose sight of that.

    MrP


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    #2594
    robp
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,934 ✭✭✭robp


    Some cynical Irish ideologues are trying to blame the horrific Colorado shooting on the mainstream pro life movement. What a nonsense argument. If I slam Israel's policy of building Palestinian settlements am I culpable for Hamas rocket attacks on Israel. Criticism is not incitement to violence.


    https://twitter.com/FintanOToolbox/status/671046287920373760


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    #2595
    Delirium
    Moderators Posts: 51,724 ✭✭✭✭Delirium


    robp wrote: »
    Wow just wow. Some cynical Irish ideologues are trying to blame the horrific Colorado shooting on the mainstream pro life movement. What a nonsense argument. If I slam Israel's policy of building Palestinian settlements am I culpable for Hamas rocket attacks on Israel. Criticism is not incitement to violence.

    [IMG]<a href="http://s131.photobucket.com/user/Roibeard/media/Untitled_zpsm9mbccgw.png.html&quot; target="_blank"><img src="http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p298/Roibeard/Untitled_zpsm9mbccgw.png&quot; border="0" alt=" photo Untitled_zpsm9mbccgw.png"/></a>[/IMG]

    Do have a link (or could you elaborate) on how they are blaming the pro-life movement for the shooting?

    EDIT: the tweet you quote says "extremists", that by definition doesn't mean "mainstream".

    If you can read this, you're too close!



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    #2596
    Cabaal
    Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 28,470 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cabaal


    robp wrote: »
    Some cynical Irish ideologues are trying to blame the horrific Colorado shooting on the mainstream pro life movement. What a nonsense argument. If I slam Israel's policy of building Palestinian settlements am I culpable for Hamas rocket attacks on Israel. Criticism is not incitement to violence.

    A very well known christian pro-life person has previously called for the planned parenthood doctors to be hunted, how is that not incitement to violence?

    Face it, there are christian terrorists in the world. Facilities that allow women choice have had kidnappings, murders and fire bombs by christian pro life terrorists for decades now.

    The so called "pro-life" groups have blood on their hands,


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    #2597
    robp
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,934 ✭✭✭robp


    Delirium wrote: »
    Do have a link (or could you elaborate) on how they are blaming the pro-life movement for the shooting?

    EDIT: the tweet you quote says "extremists", that by definition doesn't mean "mainstream".

    Planned Parenthood is also spewing this outrageous line
    , Dawn Laguens, executive vice president of Planned Parenthood Federation of America, said: "It is offensive and outrageous that some politicians are now claiming this tragedy has nothing to do with the toxic environment they helped create. Even when the gunman was still inside of our health center, politicians who have long opposed safe and legal abortion were on television pushing their campaign to defund Planned Parenthood and invoking the discredited video smear campaign that reportedly fed this shooter's rage."
    http://www.cbsnews.com/news/planned-parenthood-ties-gop-rhetoric-to-colorado-shooting/

    How can such a large organisation say something so irrational and cynical.


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    #2598
    robp
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,934 ✭✭✭robp


    Cabaal wrote: »
    Face it, there are christian terrorists in the world. Facilities that allow women choice have had kidnappings, murders and fire bombs by christian pro life terrorists for decades now.

    The so called "pro-life" groups have blood on their hands    ,
    Are you serious? So does David Norris have Israeli blood on his hands?


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    #2599
    Delirium
    Moderators Posts: 51,724 ✭✭✭✭Delirium


    robp wrote: »
    Planned Parenthood is also spewing this outrageous line http://www.cbsnews.com/news/planned-parenthood-ties-gop-rhetoric-to-colorado-shooting/

    How can such a large organisation say something so irrational and cynical.

    So should people just pretend that any of the politicians who were appearing in the media making claims (without evidence) of PP selling baby parts never did so?

    Even when investigations couldn't find evidence, some continued to make the claims. The shooter (according to some reports) acted on the accusations of selling baby parts.

    It could easily been seen as some politicians engaging in Incitement to Hatred.

    If you can read this, you're too close!



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    #2600
    robp
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,934 ✭✭✭robp


    Delirium wrote: »
    So should people just pretend that any of the politicians who were appearing in the media making claims (without evidence) of PP selling baby parts never did so?

    Even when investigations couldn't find evidence, some continued to make the claims. The shooter (according to some reports) acted on the accusations of selling baby parts.

    It could easily been seen as some politicians engaging in Incitement to Hatred.

    No it could not be. Such a case would be thrown out of the courts as there is no endorsement of violence whatsover.

    BTW Planned Parenthood admitted money was involved.


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    #2601
    Delirium
    Moderators Posts: 51,724 ✭✭✭✭Delirium


    robp wrote: »
    No it could not be. Such a case would be thrown out of the courts as there is no endorsement of violence whatsover.
    Incitement to Hatred doesn't have to have an endorsement of violence, some countries only require inflamatory statements to charge a person with Incitement to Hatred.
    BTW Planned Parenthood admitted money was involved.
    Which is not the same as admitting to selling baby parts.

    If you can read this, you're too close!



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    #2602
    robp
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,934 ✭✭✭robp


    Delirium wrote: »
    Incitement to Hatred doesn't have to have an endorsement of violence, some countries only require inflamatory statements to charge a person with Incitement to Hatred.

    Which is not the same as admitting to selling baby parts.

    Not in the US. It seems you think the law should/can be used to censor groups that fight for transparency especially in relation to public funds?

    They do/did sell organs, or at least there is far more evidence to suggest it than to suggest against it.


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    #2603
    frag420
    Registered Users Posts: 6,158 ✭✭✭frag420


    robp wrote: »
    No it could not be. Such a case would be thrown out of the courts as there is no endorsement of violence whatsover.

    BTW Planned Parenthood admitted money was involved expenses were covered.

    Fixed your post, we don't want the wrong info getting in the way of a good debate now do we!!


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    #2604
    robp
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,934 ✭✭✭robp


    frag420 wrote: »
    Fixed your post, we don't want the wrong info getting in the way of a good debate now do we!!

    I am afraid you are outright wrong. Planned Parenthood have been caught redhanded. Their official line is that the money is only to cover costs but they still felt the need to publicly come out and change their official policy on this issue. Of course they spend millions on getting Democrats into the House of Representatives and the Senate so there isn't political will to establish transparency.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/14/us/planned-parenthood-to-forgo-payment-for-fetal-tissue-programs.html?_r=0


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    #2605
    The Randy Riverbeast
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,770 ✭✭✭The Randy Riverbeast


    robp wrote: »
    Not in the US. It seems you think the law should/can be used to censor groups that fight for transparency especially in relation to public funds?

    They do/did sell organs, or at least there is far more evidence to suggest it than to suggest against it.

    Selling would be illegal. Why has no charges been brought against PP if there is evidence?

    Public funds aren't even used for abortions, you would expect pro life groups to know this considering the rules were put in place to appease them.


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    #2606
    Delirium
    Moderators Posts: 51,724 ✭✭✭✭Delirium


    robp wrote: »
    Not in the US. It seems you think the law should/can be used to censor groups that fight for transparency especially in relation to public funds?
    No, I don't. I'm just saying that some politicians that are pursuing a pro-life agenda used bad/false information to try to achieve their goals.

    Now a shooter seems to have acted on that information. The politicians should consider their possible part in why the shooting occurred.
    They do/did sell organs, or at least there is far more evidence to suggest it than to suggest against it.
    And yet all investigations carried out so far by the authorities disagree with you on the claim they sell organs/baby parts.

    If you can read this, you're too close!



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    #2607
    robp
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,934 ✭✭✭robp


    The Randy Riverbeast wrote: »
    Selling would be illegal. Why has no charges been brought against PP if there is evidence?

    Public funds aren't even used for abortions, you would expect pro life groups to know this considering the rules were put in place to appease them.
    This issue has been thrashed out before. PP sold these human remains as donations. This is a clever loop hole as there is no limit on the sum or even guideline as to how much a donation may be. No documentation is required on where this occurs thus avoiding public oversight.

    PP pays for its abortions with donor money but PP does receive huge amounts of public money. So this is a tax payer issue.

    Delirium wrote: »
    And yet all investigations carried out so far by the authorities disagree with you on the claim they sell organs/baby parts.
    Investigations found that they receive money for baby parts but appear to do so through a loop hole.


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    #2608
    Delirium
    Moderators Posts: 51,724 ✭✭✭✭Delirium


    robp wrote: »
    Investigations found that they receive money for baby parts but appear to do so through a loop hole.

    Getting the transport fees paid for by the recipient isn't selling baby parts, so no, the investigatations didn't show they sell baby parts.

    If you can read this, you're too close!



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    #2609
    robp
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,934 ✭✭✭robp


    Delirium wrote: »
    Getting the transport fees paid for by the recipient isn't selling baby parts, so no, the investigatations didn't show they sell baby parts.

    eh you need to dig more into this scandal. Its not a cheap commodity. Some of the middle men brokers who exist with scant regulation charge $24,000 for some high grade cells.


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    #2610
    frag420
    Registered Users Posts: 6,158 ✭✭✭frag420


    robp wrote: »
    I am afraid you are outright wrong. Planned Parenthood have been caught redhanded. Their official line is that the money is only to cover costs but they still felt the need to publicly come out and change their official policy on this issue. Of course they spend millions on getting Democrats into the House of Representatives and the Senate so there isn't political will to establish transparency.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/14/us/planned-parenthood-to-forgo-payment-for-fetal-tissue-programs.html?_r=0

    They had to change there policy because of the ignorance of the Pro Life brigade who refused to believe that they were only covering costs despite no proof other than very badly edited videos apparently showing PP explaining how they can afford sports cars because they sell baby body parts!

    If this wasn't so serious it would be comical!


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    #2611
    robp
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,934 ✭✭✭robp


    frag420 wrote: »
    They had to change there policy because of the ignorance of the Pro Life brigade who refused to believe that they were only covering costs despite no proof other than very badly edited videos apparently showing PP explaining how they can afford sports cars because they sell baby body parts!

    If this wasn't so serious it would be comical!

    Due to the weak legislation covering costs can mean anything hence PP are being hugely dishonest here.


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