Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

Sanctity of Life (Abortion Megathread)

Options
1…8384868889…124

Comments

  • Options
    #2552
    robp
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,934 ✭✭✭robp


    Delirium wrote: »
    No problem, can do.

    Source


    Source


    So 100-92 (<13 weeks) = 8.


    Do you dispute that 8% is a minority?
    You do realise that even this NHS page says babies are vacuumed out of women (in bits) from seven weeks after conception. You won't convince people by misreporting data.


  • Options
    #2553
    Delirium
    Moderators Posts: 51,738 ✭✭✭✭Delirium


    robp wrote: »
    That is not even in the Eight Amendment which Amnesty is arguing against. Its from the dodgy FG/Lab act from two years ago.
    The law is a result of the 8th amendment, i.e. the law is required to protect the right of the unborn to life.
    Non-surgical abortions are pill abortions. IE most of those that don't involve dismemberment. If you read the report I cited you would know that in 2013 such pill abortion were about 52%, not the 92% you indicate.

    I didn't say pill abortion were 92%, rather I showed that D&E abortions happen at >15 weeks which is 8% of abortions. D&E are the abortions that may involve dismemberment.

    I can't find a mention of aspiration involving any cutting/dismemberment, but feel free to provide a link showing otherwise.

    If you can read this, you're too close!



  • Options
    #2554
    robp
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,934 ✭✭✭robp


    Delirium wrote: »
    The law is a result of the 8th amendment, i.e. the law is required to protect the right of the unborn to life.
    The 14 year sentence you drew attention to was plucked out of thin-air. That has nothing to do with the Eight amendment.
    Delirium wrote: »
    I didn't say pill abortion were 92%, rather I showed that D&E abortions happen at >15 weeks which is 8% of abortions. D&E are the abortions that may involve dismemberment.

    I can't find a mention of aspiration involving any cutting/dismemberment, but feel free to provide a link showing otherwise.
    I won't post actual photos but I will post a link to an illustration.
    Suction & Curettage Abortion Illustrated Vacuum Aspiration Abortions Video
    Take a look at the illustrated decapitated foetus on slide two.


  • Options
    #2555
    Delirium
    Moderators Posts: 51,738 ✭✭✭✭Delirium


    robp wrote: »
    The 14 year sentence you drew attention to was plucked out of thin-air. That has nothing to do with the Eight amendment.
    The law is a direct result of the 8th amendment so one can hardly say they are unrelated.
    I won't post actual photos but I will post a link to an illustration.
    Suction & Curettage Abortion Illustrated Vacuum Aspiration Abortions Video
    Take a look at the illustrated decapitated foetus on slide two.
    Thanks for that, will have a look a little later.

    If you can read this, you're too close!



  • Options
    #2556
    robp
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,934 ✭✭✭robp


    Delirium wrote: »
    The law is a direct result of the 8th amendment so one can hardly say they are unrelated.

    Your whole point was to emphasis the sentence's severity- this harshness was a choice of the Labour Party and spineless Fine Gael lawmakers, not a constitutional requirement.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #2557
    frag420
    Registered Users Posts: 6,158 ✭✭✭frag420


    So are all you anti choice people against abortion in general or just against abortion in Ireland? Have you got issues with women going abroad for an abortion?

    Also as I have asked previously but got no answer just more questions, so I shall ask again.............How does a woman at the opposite side of the country who has an abortion have any impact on how you live your life?

    Il donate €5 to charity for each of you that gives a direct answer to the above questions without asking a question or shirking your replies!!

    Please and thank you....


  • Options
    #2558
    Delirium
    Moderators Posts: 51,738 ✭✭✭✭Delirium


    robp wrote: »
    Your whole point was to emphasis the sentence's severity- this harshness was a choice of the Labour Party and spineless Fine Gael lawmakers, not a constitutional requirement.

    Actually I asked you if a woman should be imprisoned for having an abortion and you didn't answer.

    If you can read this, you're too close!



  • Options
    #2559
    frag420
    Registered Users Posts: 6,158 ✭✭✭frag420


    Delirium wrote: »
    Actually I asked you if a woman should be imprisoned for having an abortion and you didn't answer.

    Par for the course with the anti choice brigade.........


  • Options
    #2560
    130Kph
    Closed Accounts Posts: 625 ✭✭✭130Kph


    robp wrote: »
    You do realise that even this NHS page says babies are vacuumed out of women (in bits) from seven weeks after conception. You won't convince people by misreporting data.

    So in your mind the term baby and the term foetus are interchangeable. Oh…..kay….

    In the real world, where words have meanings – that is not the case; but of course, everyone here knows that.

    In the context of the abortion debate, the only people calling a 5 or 7 week foetus – “a baby” are ideological, semantic Liars.

    Sure anyway, I’m going to try the Liar approach for a while:-
    On Saturday, I’m going to take my niece & her foetus to the park. Her foetus loves going on the swings.

    Then later we’ll go to Supermacs and I’ll buy a drink for her foetus.

    There’s going to be an ice rink there as well for Xmas and her foetus loves being punted along the ice at top speed, so I’ll punt my niece’s foetus along the ice for 20 meters and my niece will punt the foetus back to me.

    It’ll be a great day out.


  • Options
    #2561
    frag420
    Registered Users Posts: 6,158 ✭✭✭frag420


    130Kph wrote: »
    So in your mind the term baby and the term foetus are interchangeable. Oh…..kay….

    In the real world, where words have meanings – that is not the case; but of course, everyone here knows that.

    In the context of the abortion debate, the only people calling a 5 or 7 week foetus – “a baby” are ideological, semantic Liars.

    Sure anyway, I’m going to try the Liar approach for a while:-
    On Saturday, I’m going to take my niece & her foetus to the park. Her foetus loves going on the swings.

    Then later we’ll go to Supermacs and I’ll buy a drink for her foetus.

    There’s going to be an ice rink there as well for Xmas and her foetus loves being punted along the ice at top speed, so I’ll punt my niece’s foetus along the ice for 20 meters and my niece will punt the foetus back to me.

    It’ll be a great day out.


    Do supermacs do kiddy-meals or Fetus-meals?

    Would love to see a fetus try to eat a chicken nugget!!


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #2562
    robdonn
    Registered Users Posts: 1,107 ✭✭✭robdonn


    frag420 wrote: »
    Also as I have asked previously but got no answer just more questions, so I shall ask again.............How does a woman at the opposite side of the country who has an abortion have any impact on how you live your life?

    Il donate €5 to charity for each of you that gives a direct answer to the above questions without asking a question or shirking your replies!!

    Please and thank you....

    It doesn't.

    Please send your donation to Amnesty International Ireland, thanks!


  • Options
    #2563
    130Kph
    Closed Accounts Posts: 625 ✭✭✭130Kph


    robdonn wrote: »
    It doesn't.

    Please send your donation to Amnesty International Ireland, thanks!

    So is this an admission that you [or by proxy, the state] have no business what-so-ever sticking your (unwanted & unneeded) nose between a pregnant woman and her doctor.

    At last, we're making progress to a sane system of health.

    I think I'll put this in wikipedia - the date Ireland finally grew up about abortion.


  • Options
    #2564
    Overheal
    Registered Users Posts: 82,106 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    Active shooter situation in progress at Planned Parenthood in Colorado. Officers down; 1 shot in the hand, unknown other casualties.


  • Options
    #2565
    frag420
    Registered Users Posts: 6,158 ✭✭✭frag420


    Seems the pro life brigade are not really pro life after all.......


  • Options
    #2566
    robdonn
    Registered Users Posts: 1,107 ✭✭✭robdonn


    Overheal wrote: »
    Active shooter situation in progress at Planned Parenthood in Colorado. Officers down; 1 shot in the hand, unknown other casualties.

    They don't know yet if it has anything to do with the PP clinic, but that is where the 911 call came from.


  • Options
    #2567
    cattolico
    Closed Accounts Posts: 208 ✭✭cattolico


    frag420 wrote: »
    Seems the pro life brigade are not really pro life after all.......

    Hold on.. There are nut jobs everywhere. Pro-life NEVER permits killing ANYONE.


  • Options
    #2568
    frag420
    Registered Users Posts: 6,158 ✭✭✭frag420


    cattolico wrote: »
    Hold on.. There are nut jobs everywhere. Pro-life NEVER permits killing ANYONE.

    I knew that post would get you out of your hiding place!

    Care to address the questions asked of you over the last few pages now that we have your attention?


  • Options
    #2569
    lazygal
    Registered Users Posts: 12,644 ✭✭✭✭lazygal


    cattolico wrote: »
    Hold on.. There are nut jobs everywhere. Pro-life NEVER permits killing ANYONE.

    Even if a life is at risk?


  • Options
    #2570
    La Fenetre
    Registered Users Posts: 736 ✭✭✭La Fenetre


    Delirium wrote: »
    Two examples that don't involve dismemberment are the abortion pill and aspiration (which accounts for about 91% of abortions in UK for example). So dismemberment isn't involved in the majority of the abortions preformed there.

    I said poisoning and / or dismemberment. And vacuum aspiration can cause dismemberment if used anywhere close to 12 weeks. The child's remains are sucked out through the tubing.

    Human life at only 12 weeks in the womb, image from Getty images, before anyone tries to claim it's not 12 weeks.

    http://www.gettyimages.ie/detail/photo/twelve-week-human-fetus-high-res-stock-photography/10014641


    10014641-twelve-week-human-fetus-gettyimages.jpg?v=1&c=IWSAsset&k=2&d=FLP296TG22DkEsZztxKCJGxd7hFGc%2blsLKnRUxVpyGpnpAQut7gDRJk6PgIVZoMA


  • Options
    #2571
    Delirium
    Moderators Posts: 51,738 ✭✭✭✭Delirium


    the post you quoted wasn't replying to a post of yours:confused:

    If you can read this, you're too close!



  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #2572
    The Randy Riverbeast
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,770 ✭✭✭The Randy Riverbeast


    cattolico wrote: »
    Hold on.. There are nut jobs everywhere. Pro-life NEVER permits killing ANYONE.

    Strange how the majority of the republican party considers themselves pro life but also pro the death penalty then.


  • Options
    #2573
    130Kph
    Closed Accounts Posts: 625 ✭✭✭130Kph


    La Fenetre wrote: »
    Human life at only 12 weeks in the womb, image from Getty images, before anyone tries to claim it's not 12 weeks.

    After a 2 minute web search I found that :- A foetus at 12 weeks is about 5.4cm long from crown to rump and weighs slightly less than 14g (half an ounce).

    So why would someone who wants to ensure that women are forced to give birth against their will (when it has absolutely nothing to do with them) put up an image here that magnifies the foetus at least 3.5 times?

    You didn’t post an image of a 12 week foetus that was reduced in size 3.5 times??? So I just can’t understand it.

    I’m racking my brain and I can’t come up with a reason why anyone would do that.
    What possible reason could they have for doing that :confused:

    I’m lost :confused:


  • Options
    #2574
    Overheal
    Registered Users Posts: 82,106 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    Shooter is in custody. 3 dead. Several other casualties. It happened inside the clinic, the shootout/standoff lasted hours. The motive of the shooter is not yet known according to NYT

    http://mobile.nytimes.com/2015/11/28/us/colorado-planned-parenthood-shooting.html?_r=0&referer=

    Other reports indicate the shooter began firing on patients and employees immediately upon entering the building. Among the dead is a police officer.

    http://www.inquisitr.com/2594912/robert-lewis-dear-alleged-planned-parenthood-gunman-is-57-year-old-south-carolina-man/

    The shooter brought "devices" to the scene, including propane tanks. Police did not as of Friday wish to make any conclusions about his motives or ideologies. An anonymous police source told reporters the suspects name not wishing to be identified for lack of authority to engage the press on this sensitive matter. Investigative journalists discovered he's a white male, late 50s, originally from South Carolina with several criminal and civil charges on record (dropped and otherwise) including animal abuse. The clinic in Colorado gets regular traffic from Pro-Life protests ranging from a couple people to a couple hundred.

    You know we talked about extremists earlier in this thread and it seems those concerns were too casually dismissed. I guess someone was upset that PP was not going to lose a legal battle in the federal courts over the defunding issue. Just my hypothesis. It also doesn't sound like he was trying to maximize body count - three dead in six hours. More than likely the original goal was to set off the propane tanks to initiate an explosion But he got stuck at the scene. We will not know for sure obviously until the police make an official statement


  • Options
    #2575
    Overheal
    Registered Users Posts: 82,106 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    cattolico wrote: »
    EXACTLY... This is morally right. Its an extremely difficult situation. But you can't let both die. Its not in the realm of choice its. Its the sad reality life. You can't sit back an let both die, you need to treat the situation to save if possible both or at least one of the people.

    This statement and the one 2-3 posts ago are mutually exclusive...
    cattolico wrote: »
    Hold on.. There are nut jobs everywhere. Pro-life NEVER permits killing ANYONE.


  • Options
    #2576
    cattolico
    Closed Accounts Posts: 208 ✭✭cattolico


    lazygal wrote: »
    Even if a life is at risk?

    there is a fundamental difference between abortion, and necessary medical treatments that are carried out to save the life of the mother, even if such treatment results in the loss of life of her unborn child.

    Treating a dying mother is never wrong.


  • Options
    #2577
    cattolico
    Closed Accounts Posts: 208 ✭✭cattolico


    The Randy Riverbeast wrote: »
    Strange how the majority of the republican party considers themselves pro life but also pro the death penalty then.

    Yeap. Pope Francis hit at that when he spoke in the US.


  • Options
    #2578
    lazygal
    Registered Users Posts: 12,644 ✭✭✭✭lazygal


    cattolico wrote: »
    there is a fundamental difference between abortion, and necessary medical treatments that are carried out to save the life of the mother, even if such treatment results in the loss of life of her unborn child.

    Treating a dying mother is never wrong.

    But killing an unborn child to save her life isn't killing because you say so? I thought the Dublin declaration was that abortions are never medically necessary to save lives. Has that changed now?


  • Options
    #2579
    Kev W
    Registered Users Posts: 2,536 ✭✭✭Kev W


    La Fenetre wrote: »

    Human life at only 12 weeks in the womb, image from Getty images, before anyone tries to claim it's not 12 weeks.

    I wasn't aware that Getty Images was a medical website.


  • Options
    #2580
    eviltwin
    Registered Users Posts: 17,495 ✭✭✭✭eviltwin


    cattolico wrote: »
    there is a fundamental difference between abortion, and necessary medical treatments that are carried out to save the life of the mother, even if such treatment results in the loss of life of her unborn child.

    Treating a dying mother is never wrong.

    The only difference is in how you word it.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #2581
    frag420
    Registered Users Posts: 6,158 ✭✭✭frag420


    cattolico wrote: »
    and necessary medical treatments that are carried out to save the life of the mother, even if such treatment results in the loss of life of her unborn child

    I dunno how to break this to you, I hope you are sitting down for this......

    The part I've quoted above.....are you ready for this.........THATS THE ABORTION PART!!

    So now we know that you do support abortion! Welcome to the dark side, grab a beer and have a seat and make yourself comfy!


Advertisement