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The Irish language is failing.

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    #2522
    Dughorm
    Closed Accounts Posts: 895 ✭✭✭Dughorm


    Dan_Solo wrote: »
    But you do however insist that everyone learn the language you like. Pretty much for no other reason than you like it.

    Nope that's not my argument. I like French and Spanish as I said but I don't insist everyone learn them.

    The difference is that Irish is one of our national languages, but as I'm sure you're aware I'm not in the habit of repeating myself!


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    #2523
    eviltwin
    Registered Users Posts: 17,495 ✭✭✭✭eviltwin


    Dughorm wrote: »
    This is such a reasonable answer. A language is such a personal choice, you enjoy French and Spanish, as do I, but I never had any time for German, it just was not a language that I liked, but of course I don't diss Germans or their lovely language, it just wasn't for me.

    I don't hate the language but I find it redundant. So many real languages out there and we force our youth to learn irish. It's unfair to them and a wasted opportunity.


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    #2524
    eviltwin
    Registered Users Posts: 17,495 ✭✭✭✭eviltwin


    Dughorm wrote: »
    Nope that's not my argument. I like French and Spanish as I said but I don't insist everyone learn them.

    The difference is that Irish is one of our national languages, but as I'm sure you're aware I'm not in the habit of repeating myself!

    Why should it's status as a national language matter? We don't force our kids to learn GAA or Irish dance, why force them to learn the language?


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    #2525
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    Dughorm wrote: »
    Nope that's not my argument. I like French and Spanish as I said but I don't insist everyone learn them.

    The difference is that Irish is one of our national languages, but as I'm sure you're aware I'm not in the habit of repeating myself!
    You could repeat why Irish should be mandatory just because it is one of our two national languages, and one that nobody actually wants to speak and is of zero use to anybody.


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    #2526
    Carlos Orange
    Registered Users Posts: 2,499 ✭✭✭Carlos Orange


    Dughorm wrote: »
    The difference is that Irish is one of our national languages, but as I'm sure you're aware I'm not in the habit of repeating myself!

    Irish has a legal status but practically it isn't one of our national languages. We only have one of those. At best it is a regional language.


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    #2527
    Dughorm
    Closed Accounts Posts: 895 ✭✭✭Dughorm


    eviltwin wrote: »
    Why should it's status as a national language matter?

    It's of crucial importance - a national education system should include education in the national languages for it to be a true liberal arts education delivered here.

    But it depends on what your philosophy of education is all about!
    eviltwin wrote: »
    We don't force our kids to learn GAA or Irish dance, why force them to learn the language?

    You must have gotten off lightly if you didn't have to do GAA/Irish dance in school ;)


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    #2528
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    Dughorm wrote: »
    It's of crucial importance - a national education system should include education in the national languages for it to be a true liberal arts education delivered here.
    You definitely have never repeated why this is the case.
    Because you've still never told us why.


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    #2529
    eviltwin
    Registered Users Posts: 17,495 ✭✭✭✭eviltwin


    Dughorm wrote: »
    It's of crucial importance - a national education system should include education in the national languages for it to be a true liberal arts education delivered here.

    But it depends on what your philosophy of education is all about!



    You must have gotten off lightly if you didn't have to do GAA/Irish dance in school ;)

    Nothing liberal about trying to make the Irish language happen by forcing it down kids throats. Generations of that has failed. Time to admit it and try something new.


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    #2530
    Dughorm
    Closed Accounts Posts: 895 ✭✭✭Dughorm


    eviltwin wrote: »
    Nothing liberal about trying to make the Irish language happen by forcing it down kids throats. Generations of that has failed. Time to admit it and try something new.

    Liberal arts doesn't equal liberal politics!!

    Are you against forcing Shakespeare down kids throats?


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    #2531
    Dughorm
    Closed Accounts Posts: 895 ✭✭✭Dughorm


    Dan_Solo wrote: »
    You definitely have never repeated why this is the case.
    Because you've still never told us why.

    Indeed I did. Go re-read my posts about my philosophy of education.


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    #2532
    eviltwin
    Registered Users Posts: 17,495 ✭✭✭✭eviltwin


    Dughorm wrote: »
    Liberal arts doesn't equal liberal politics!!

    Are you against forcing Shakespeare down kids throats?

    To an extent I would be, yeah. I think education in general is far too rigid and doesn't provide much scope. But then I suppose it's time limited. There is value in reading and discussing plays and poems, don't know why it can't be a broader course to allow other works to be included though. I'm no fan of Shakespeare but I do feel I actually learnt something in English class. I can't say that for irish.


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    #2533
    Reiver
    Registered Users Posts: 782 ✭✭✭Reiver


    eviltwin wrote: »
    I don't hate the language but I find it redundant. So many real languages out there and we force our youth to learn irish. It's unfair to them and a wasted opportunity.

    Real?

    Well the languages education in Ireland is shocking. Anglophones always are. Even if the Irish curriculum was similar to that of German/French/Spanish in secondary schools, it'd still be ****. How many people leave school knowing a second language in Ireland?


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    #2534
    Letree
    Registered Users Posts: 1,005 ✭✭✭Letree


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Rather than just moaning about whether it is dead or not, how about a bit of positivity and look at ways to support learners.

    One thing that would help people to learn the language quite cheaply would be to use one of the "spare" saorview channels for broadcasting back to back Irish lessons, they can simply reuse the older RTE produced material at zero cost.


    *each Mux had 8 channels, and all are itransmitted whether there is anything to send or otherwise

    Many people out there including myself want to let it die. I don't want to prolong it by supporting people to learn more of it. It is not going to be used as a genuine national language and never will. What we currently have is a farce.


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    #2535
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Letree wrote: »
    Many people out there including myself want to let it die. I don't want to prolong it by supporting people to learn more of it. It is not going to be used as a genuine national language and never will. What we currently have is a farce.
    The method of support that I am suggesting has virtually zero cost involved, if you're not interested in learning then you just ignore the channel.


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    #2536
    Trabejo
    Site Banned Posts: 65 ✭✭Trabejo


    Deleted User wrote: »
    The method of support that I am suggesting has virtually zero cost involved, if you're not interested in learning then you just ignore the channel.

    It's never that simple pal. We don't need another TG4


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    #2537
    Shep_Dog
    Closed Accounts Posts: 499 ✭✭Shep_Dog


    Dughorm wrote: »
    Liberal arts doesn't equal liberal politics!!

    Are you against forcing Shakespeare down kids throats?
    There is a difference between educating children in the rich heritage of their native English language and forcing them to learn another, alien language.

    Ethics are a core part of a Liberal arts education, a subject Irish enthusiasts have little experience of, if we judge by their actions in the past 80 years.


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    #2538
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Trabejo wrote: »
    It's never that simple pal. We don't need another TG4
    It is that simple, if you don't want to view the channel you don't need to.
    Pal! (that's a dog food :rolleyes:)


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    #2539
    Trabejo
    Site Banned Posts: 65 ✭✭Trabejo


    Deleted User wrote: »
    It is that simple, if you don't want to view the channel you don't need to.
    Pal! (that's a dog food :rolleyes:)

    Pal its annoying to have to flick through channels of gibberish. And then you run the risk of them getting the rights to sporting events and ruining what should be great sporting occasions.


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    #2540
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    Dughorm wrote: »
    Indeed I did. Go re-read my posts about my philosophy of education.
    Yeah, it's back there where you posted next week's winning lotto numbers and the third secret of Fatima.
    Nice try. You never told us.


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    #2541
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    It is that simple, if you don't want to view the channel you don't need to.
    Pal! (that's a dog food :rolleyes:)
    Sorry chum.
    There could be a channel per Irish speaker, nobody else wants it.


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    #2542
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Trabejo wrote: »
    Pal its annoying to have to flick through channels of gibberish. And then you run the risk of them getting the rights to sporting events and ruining what should be great sporting occasions.
    You need to learn how to use a remote control if you flick through all the channels you don't want to watch.


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    #2543
    Gael Mire
    Registered Users Posts: 76 ✭✭Gael Mire


    Dan_Solo wrote: »
    Outside of school about 1% of people speak it.

    Again, where are you getting these figures from, source please.


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    #2544
    Gael Mire
    Registered Users Posts: 76 ✭✭Gael Mire


    Letree wrote: »
    Many people out there including myself want to let it die.

    Many? That's a bit optimistic. A handful of loud people more like.

    But at least you have the honesty to admit your position. That is so much better than those hypocrites who claim to love Irish while doing all they can to hinder and undermine anything done to protect it.


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    #2545
    Afollower
    Registered Users Posts: 128 ✭✭Afollower


    Hi, can I stick my oar in here -
    I sent both of my children to a Gaelscoil and found that rather than instill a love of the language it had the opposite effect. The reason being, the majority of the teachers were Irish 'fanatics' and the children were punished if they were caught speaking Bearla - even in the playground. The fact that English was the first language of the majority of the children didn't come in to it at all - the teachers couldn't seem to comprehend that children at play are supposed to be enjoying themselves and not concentrating on speaking Irish when shouting to their pals to pass the ball, etc.
    Basically, the language was shoved down their throats and they couldn't wait to get out of there.
    On the plus side, it did stand to them in Secondary school that they had been immersed in the language from an early age and didn't find Irish as difficult a subject as their peers.


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    #2546
    RossyG
    Registered Users Posts: 297 ✭✭RossyG


    Deleted User wrote: »
    As Daniel O'Connell infamously, but felicitously, put it in 1832:

    Bloody hell, has he been around that long. I hope he'll be all right for Strictly.


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    #2547
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    Gael Mire wrote: »
    Again, where are you getting these figures from, source please.
    Census.
    Do you have other data?


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    #2548
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    Gael Mire wrote: »
    Many? That's a bit optimistic. A handful of loud people more like.
    Hardly as loud as the even rarer Gailgeban cultural supremacy brigade.
    Many of whom would be hit in the pocket big time if it wasn't force fed to this English speaking country.


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    #2549
    Gael Mire
    Registered Users Posts: 76 ✭✭Gael Mire


    Dan_Solo wrote: »
    Census.
    Do you have other data?

    The census does not support your claims that less than 1% of Irish people speak Irish. So do you withdraw the claim?


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    #2550
    Shep_Dog
    Closed Accounts Posts: 499 ✭✭Shep_Dog


    Gael Mire wrote: »
    The census does not support your claims that less than 1% of Irish people speak Irish. So do you withdraw the claim?

    Maybe he's referring to the percentage who voluntarily speak Irish and not English, all day, every day, as part of their daily lives? You, know, like, as their primary, native language? Not just as an intellectual hobby or to impress others, but as a real-life functioning language?

    Hobbyist 'Cupla Focal' speakers and those forced to speak Irish at school, should not count.


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    #2551
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    Gael Mire wrote: »
    The census does not support your claims that less than 1% of Irish people speak Irish. So do you withdraw the claim?
    http://www.irishcentral.com/news/irish-now-the-third-most-spoken-language-in-ireland-after-english-and-polish-145200025-237438651.html
    And that percentage has fallen since the previous census. We should have some state Polish media and force feed every kid in the country Polish too, right?
    Have you got any data you would care to present otherwise?


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