Cabot and Belgard solicitors

chrisvectra25 · 18-05-2015 8:50am #1

Got a letter from Cabot saying I owed €165 from an MNBA card I cleared 10 years ago. I rang them straight away and after a lot of arguing they said that they would raise a query with avant Card (formerly Mnba). They never came back to me.

Today I get a letter from Belgard Solicitors saying if I don't pay in seven days they will take me to court. Saying I never provided proof of payment as per first call (this was never mentioned in first call!) I would not still have proof of payment as it was 10 years ago.

They said they would request a statement but it would be €2.50 a page and couldn't tell me how many pages! I declined because if I agreed then they could charge me whatever they wanted for the statement!

I said they could take me to court and I would happily tell a judge that after 10 years of no contact they try to get me to pay money that I am sure I don't owe. And that they cannot tell me what it is owed for!

Anyone have this trouble and how did you put an end to it?

P. Breathnach · 18-05-2015 8:55am

Even if there had been an uncleared balance on the account, after more than six years with no contact it should be statute-barred.

delahuntv · 18-05-2015 9:03am

Cabot & Belgard are one of the same and in the same building. Just different desks.

cabot do the initial collection and belgard do any actual leagl work.

But as above, its statute barred and they cannot legally take a case against you.

I woudl suggest you put in writing that you have no debt and you have paid up in full and that there has been no contact for 10 years and hence you could safely assume that no balance exists.

daheff · 18-05-2015 9:05am

OP- firstly I'd cease all discussions with the solicitors. Deal only with MBNA/Avantcard.

As P.Breathnach says the age of the outstanding invoice is concerning and is more than likely statute barred (somebody might be able to link something to confirm this).

do you remember how you paid off your debt? Was it by credit card or by cheque or other? Is there any way you could approach the provider to see if they still have a record of your payment? (they probably wont as its so old.)

Melendez · 18-05-2015 9:22am

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P. Breathnach · 18-05-2015 9:36am

daheff wrote: »

... As P.Breathnach says the age of the outstanding invoice is concerning and is more than likely statute barred (somebody might be able to link something to confirm this)....

Links:
The actual legislation: http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1957/en/act/pub/0006/index.html
For those who do not have the mindset for legalese: http://www.lynchsolicitors.ie/news/statute-of-limitations-legal-time-limits/

chrisvectra25 · 18-05-2015 9:56am

Thanks for the replies. At the first phone call I made I a call to avant card who said they could not deal with me as the matter was passed to Cabot and no longer anything to do with them.

I paid it using the bill in my bank at the time. Unfortunately I changed banks about 8 years ago so no longer deal with the bank I paid it in either. I know which branch I did it in but don't think there would be any records with the bank now as account is closed 8 years.

I'm so indignant as I know I cleared it.

Once again thanks for all the advice.

daheff · 18-05-2015 10:34am

chrisvectra25 wrote: »

Thanks for the replies. At the first phone call I made I a call to avant card who said they could not deal with me as the matter was passed to Cabot and no longer anything to do with them.

I paid it using the bill in my bank at the time. Unfortunately I changed banks about 8 years ago so no longer deal with the bank I paid it in either. I know which branch I did it in but don't think there would be any records with the bank now as account is closed 8 years.

I'm so indignant as I know I cleared it.

Once again thanks for all the advice.

You have no contract at all with Cabot. So if Avant Card wont talk with you then thats their issue. You dont have to talk with the solicitors, only Avantcard.

But i wouldnt really worry about it as its so old.

Happyman42 · 18-05-2015 11:51am

daheff wrote: »

You have no contract at all with Cabot. So if Avant Card wont talk with you then thats their issue. You dont have to talk with the solicitors, only Avantcard.

But i wouldnt really worry about it as its so old.

Are you saying that if he/she refuses to talk with Cabot and Belgard then this will just go away?

Is that good advice?

delahuntv · 18-05-2015 12:11pm

daheff wrote: »

You have no contract at all with Cabot. So if Avant Card wont talk with you then thats their issue. You dont have to talk with the solicitors, only Avantcard.

But i wouldnt really worry about it as its so old.

That's very poor advice. Terms and conditions of every loan/credit card I've ever had will always have a conditions stating that the loan can be sold or passed on to a 3rd party.

To the OP, your old bank will have records and would be fairly easy to look up - contact them if you wish, but as above, the debt is statute barred. I would check credit rating just to be sure, (its €6.35 to do so), but even then, any record on that is probably gone too.

daheff · 18-05-2015 2:19pm

Happyman42 wrote: »

Are you saying that if he/she refuses to talk with Cabot and Belgard then this will just go away? Is that good advice?

Nope not saying that at all. What I am saying is that the OP has no contract with the debt collector and should only deal with MBNA/Avantcard.

delahuntv wrote: »

That's very poor advice. Terms and conditions of every loan/credit card I've ever had will always have a conditions stating that the loan can be sold or passed on to a 3rd party.

To the OP, your old bank will have records and would be fairly easy to look up - contact them if you wish, but as above, the debt is statute barred. I would check credit rating just to be sure, (its €6.35 to do so), but even then, any record on that is probably gone too.

T&Cs would say that, but you still have the contract with the original provider and should deal with them only. That would be standard advice to somebody in this situation. Any repayments should be made to the contracting company and not the debt collectors.

Melendez · 18-05-2015 2:44pm

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chrisvectra25 · 18-05-2015 3:38pm

As it's so long ago I cannot remember the full details except for being positive I cleared it.

When asking the guy in Cabot what it was for he said it was probably stamp duty that had been accruing interest.

I am positive that they (MBNA) have not sent me any letters. I do agree it is not usual for a credit card company to be shy in sending letters looking for money but am sure I haven't had any.

Guy:Incognito · 18-05-2015 5:50pm

delahuntv wrote: »

That's very poor advice. Terms and conditions of every loan/credit card I've ever had will always have a conditions stating that the loan can be sold or passed on to a 3rd party.
.

Do they specify that only the lender can sell it on? Could you tell them you sold your debt to them to a homeless lad in Tipperary?

beego · 25-06-2015 2:06pm

Hi just looking for some advice. Having terrible trouble with Cabot financial and belgard solicitors. Agreed a payment plan with a different debt collection agency who came looking for me over a Ulster Bank loan from 10 years ago last June.

Agreed a payment plan with this company and set up a standing order for agreed amount. Payments met in full on a fortnightly basis ever since to clear the loan.

Two months ago started getting letters and phone calls on a near daily basis from Cabot financial stating I was in default of loan and if payment was not paid in full with in 14 days court proceedings and legal action would be taken against me.

I emailed them and told them I have have being paying as agreed with the debt collection company I was dealing with and all payments have been met in full and I wished no further contact with them as my contract was with a different debt company.

Last week I received a letter off belgard solicitors saying that no payments have been received and court proceedings were being issued against me for the full amount of the loan even though monthly payments are coming out every month to pay it off. I rang belgard solicitors and asked what was going on I had no correspondence to say Cabot had taken over the account and as far as I was aware my contract was with the original debt company who I am paying. I also said even though I was in contact with Cabot and explained payments were being met and to detest from harassing me the letters and phone calls still persist.

To cut long story short she sent out a income form and new standing order details for me to fill out which I duly did. So a new standing order to Cabot was set up with my bank for fortnightly payments which has commenced and money has been taken out .

This morning I received another belgard solicitor letter saying I was not paying and court proceedings are being issued. I am at the end of my tether any advice or information what I can do would be greatly received.

chrisvectra25 · 25-06-2015 2:10pm

They are the same company. Just different desks. They will have a record of your correspondence.

Fred Swanson · 25-06-2015 3:38pm

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yosser hughes · 25-06-2015 3:44pm

Fred Swanson wrote: »

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What is the length of time a debt has to go unpaid for it to be statute barred?
When you say acknowledgement, what exactly does that mean?

Fred Swanson · 25-06-2015 3:52pm

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keithclancy · 25-06-2015 3:52pm

yosser hughes wrote: »

What is the length of time a debt has to go unpaid for it to be statute barred?
When you say acknowledgement, what exactly does that mean?

I think the best action is to read it and then use it as fire lighters.

Fred Swanson · 25-06-2015 3:54pm

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wmpdd3 · 25-06-2015 3:54pm

Its six years from the last payment or the last time you acknowledged the debt

If you DID owe money and you answered a call 7 years later and acknowledged that there is still an amount owing, they clock starts again.

Cabot gave me 4 different amounts owed for my MBNA account.

They lost my paperwork countless times.

Even after the payment plan was set up I was still receiving financial statements to fill out.

When the mess was finally sorted out, they letters never stopped. Also they refused to issue a letter saying the bill was settled, they said only MBNA could do that.

The difference is, in my case there was money owed.

beego · 25-06-2015 3:55pm

Fred Swanson wrote: »

You have to be very careful with statute barred debts. If you make any acknowledgement or a payment no matter how small, it resets the 6 year clock and makes the debt recoverable in the courts.

You are best to write to them and tell them the debt is denied and is statute barred. Put them on notice they will be liable to costs if they proceed to court.

There is a thriving business in the UK/Ireland in buying very old statute barred debts for peanuts and then trying to get a payment or acknowledgement on.

Thanks Fred much appreciated.

delahuntv · 25-06-2015 4:45pm

On staute barred - once there has been no contact for a period of 6 years in relation to the debt, it is then staute barred. There is no way to have this "unbarred" After 6years and one day from last contact, you can shout from the rooftops that you used to owe the money an they can do absolutley nothign about it.

However if it was 5 years and 364 days and on the 365th day they contacted you, then the 6 year period starts again, but once 6 years is gone, its gone. It cannot under any circumstances (except High Court) be "reset".

Fred Swanson · 25-06-2015 4:48pm

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Fred Swanson · 25-06-2015 4:54pm

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slimjimmc · 25-06-2015 7:15pm

Fred Swanson wrote: »

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Surely any debt is no longer statute barred since he has already acknowledged it by setting up a standing order to Cabot and making actual payments?

Fred Swanson · 25-06-2015 7:17pm

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delahuntv · 25-06-2015 8:26pm

There's always confusion on Statute barred.

It doesn't mean you don't owe the debt and it can stay on the company's records and if it's a financial institution they can log details on your credit record.

It does mean that after 6 years of no contact, or non admittance legal action cannot be commenced to enforce the debt.

But they can still contact you and ask for payment, however if you tell them you do not intend to pay or claim that you do not owe it and will contest any legal threat with a Statute barred defence, they should stop contact. But unless you get the debt wiped it can stay on their records.

Jayop · 25-06-2015 8:37pm

These type of fearmongering solicitors and debt collectors are the scum of the earth.

I can't help with the problems, but that's my view.

beego · 30-06-2015 5:16am

Cheers for the replys. Much appreciated.

Quackster · 08-07-2015 12:16pm

Turn the tables on this shower by requesting a copy of all data they have on you under Section 4 of the Freedom of Information Acts. They can only charge you a maximum of €6.35 for the privilege. More information here:

https://www.dataprotection.ie/docs/Accessing-Your-Personal-Information/14.htm

This is also the no-brainer route to getting copies of your account histories from both your old bank and from MBNA/AvantCard.

alig123aileen · 12-07-2015 8:41am

Hi there I had exactly the same problem with Cabot and mbna.i did not have to pay it in the end. First write to Cabot tell them the data on the letter is incorrect and not up to date and you will take a case under data protection commissioner to them if they attempt to communicate by letter or phone to you again. Tell them to refer the matter back to mbna. Under data protection mbna had a duty to keep your data/amt owed up to date and to communicate this to you via monthly statements showing the correct Amt outstanding which you say they have not done in some time. Then write to mbna and say you will take a case under data protection as they failed to send you regular statements of the amount outstanding yet they notified a third pArty Cabot of incorrect data with regard to you. Say unless they confirm the amt they say is outstanding is cleared you will consult your solicitor and any costs arising will be billed to them. Enclose the letter you sent to Cabot. When I followed this process I found that within three days I had an apologetic call from mbna and they said the debt was cleared. Make sure you get it in writing from them or the debt could rear its ugly head again with another debt agency. My background is bank/ debt collection so I am confident this process will work. Happy to help further if I can and to draft letters for you if needed just send me a pm with your phone nr. I don't charge for this service. Also make sure mbna confirm they have not added your details to icb so your credit rating is not affected. All debt collection agencies adopt dubious practices but Cabot are probably the worse of all

nemo26 · 18-07-2015 9:40pm

My problem is identical.

I did have an MBNA card which I believe I closed correctly & I have not had any communication from MBNA for YEARS!! Yet apparently I owe €177 to Cabot. I have always paid off my CC bills in full each month.

Despite having written a barred letter a number of times to Cabot & Belgard and having a letter of complaint acknowledged by Cabot, on Friday I received yet another letter from Belgard threatening legal action as I have "refused" to engage!! Such poppycock!

I was just wondering to what MBNA address you wrote? My understanding is that MBNA have pulled out of Ireland and all debts were bought by AvantCard.

yosser hughes · 19-07-2015 6:13pm

Can this company not be reported to some quango or something? What they are doing is harassment and false representation.
Financial regulator maybe, or does that office exist now?
The Law Society in the case of their legal arm.

https://www.financialombudsman.ie/

Fred Swanson · 19-07-2015 6:49pm

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nemo26 · 19-07-2015 8:39pm

alig123aileen wrote: »

Hi there I had exactly the same problem with Cabot and mbna.i did not have to pay it in the end. First write to Cabot tell them the data on the letter is incorrect and not up to date and you will take a case under data protection commissioner to them if they attempt to communicate by letter or phone to you again. Tell them to refer the matter back to mbna. Under data protection mbna had a duty to keep your data/amt owed up to date and to communicate this to you via monthly statements showing the correct Amt outstanding which you say they have not done in some time. Then write to mbna and say you will take a case under data protection as they failed to send you regular statements of the amount outstanding yet they notified a third pArty Cabot of incorrect data with regard to you. Say unless they confirm the amt they say is outstanding is cleared you will consult your solicitor and any costs arising will be billed to them. Enclose the letter you sent to Cabot. When I followed this process I found that within three days I had an apologetic call from mbna and they said the debt was cleared. Make sure you get it in writing from them or the debt could rear its ugly head again with another debt agency. My background is bank/ debt collection so I am confident this process will work. Happy to help further if I can and to draft letters for you if needed just send me a pm with your phone nr. I don't charge for this service. Also make sure mbna confirm they have not added your details to icb so your credit rating is not affected. All debt collection agencies adopt dubious practices but Cabot are probably the worse of all

I would really appreciate if you could advise what MBNA address you contacted MBNA. I can't find any current Irish address.

nemo26 · 19-07-2015 8:50pm

Would anyone know when MBNA moved from St Stephens Green to Carrick On Shannon?

dreamers75 · 23-07-2015 11:21pm

Best to think of Cabot and their ilk as a machine, they do not know or care about other parts of the machine. They have a name, a customer number and an amount they are owed. Pointless trying to deal with them as if it is a human, it will only upset you if you think you are not getting your "opinion" across, you are just a number and an amount owed regardless of right or wrong they are to collect.

In all instances of the "machine" not working, i would take the hour in court and ask the judge to award costs to them.

The above advice only applies to people who are actually paying debts and having issues with that, if your not best of luck.

Citizen2011 · 24-07-2015 6:40am

Debt Collection in Ireland and the UK is now a game. A game of chicken to see who blinks said. As other posters have said these debts have been purchased for buttons and there is no way they would instigate proper legal proceedings. They would lose a fortune. That's why they have consolidated the debt collection i.e. Cabot and Belgard Solrs under one roof. Belgard write the "scary" letters to give an impression it's moving through the legal process when in fact it's been passed by some fella to his colleague at the desk beside him. It's a big game and they probably bank on 10-15% of the debtors paying up and they're profitable with that.

I wouldn't give it a second thought.

reddevildazz · 24-07-2015 3:59pm

Hello all

Could somebody help me? In 2008 I got a car loan through GE Money. When I lost my job due to the recession I had a plan in place that for the first 6 months or so I was out of work GE Money would make those loan repayments.

While I was out of work I had to start caring for my grandmother and when the time was up on GE Money making the repayments I was unable to make them myself so I gave up the car.

The car went to auction and was sold for considerably less than what it was worth.

2 years later I received a letter in the post from GE Money saying I owed the remaining debt. As I was not working at the time I made an agreement with them that I would pay what I could.

A year later I was sent letters etc from this Cabot financial crowd saying that I owed them the money and to pay up or I was been brought to court (I am still getting these letters and phone calls to this day). I gave GE Money, now known as Pepper, a call and they said my debt had been sold to this Cabot crowd.

According to them I still owe upwards of €12000 . Since my grandmother died in 2013 I wasn't able to find work so I went back to college that August and finished in June of this year.

I am now on Jobseekers Allowance and trying to pay what I can but it's not enough for this Cabot crowd. I am still getting letters by them, a place called Belgard Solicitors and getting harassing phone calls.

Since my grandmother died I have been in treatment for depression and anxiety. I can't see a way out of this predicament and just want to find a way to settle this debt. Does anybody know if Cabot financial would accept a lower number to clear the debt. I'm at my wits end.

Any help or tips would be appreciated.

Thanks.

tipptom · 24-07-2015 4:09pm

reddevildazz wrote: »

Hello all

Could somebody help me? In 2008 I got a car loan through GE Money. When I lost my job due to the recession I had a plan in place that for the first 6 months or so I was out of work GE Money would make those loan repayments.

While I was out of work I had to start caring for my grandmother and when the time was up on GE Money making the repayments I was unable to make them myself so I gave up the car.

The car went to auction and was sold for considerably less than what it was worth.

2 years later I received a letter in the post from GE Money saying I owed the remaining debt. As I was not working at the time I made an agreement with them that I would pay what I could.

A year later I was sent letters etc from this Cabot financial crowd saying that I owed them the money and to pay up or I was been brought to court (I am still getting these letters and phone calls to this day). I gave GE Money, now known as Pepper, a call and they said my debt had been sold to this Cabot crowd.

According to them I still owe upwards of €12000 . Since my grandmother died in 2013 I wasn't able to find work so I went back to college that August and finished in June of this year.

I am now on Jobseekers Allowance and trying to pay what I can but it's not enough for this Cabot crowd. I am still getting letters by them, a place called Belgard Solicitors and getting harassing phone calls.

Since my grandmother died I have been in treatment for depression and anxiety. I can't see a way out of this predicament and just want to find a way to settle this debt. Does anybody know if Cabot financial would accept a lower number to clear the debt. I'm at my wits end.

Any help or tips would be appreciated.

Thanks.

My opinion on this is if you got your hands on a lump sum to pay them Fu*k off money then I would take them to the wire on how you cannot pay then anything and then tell them that a brother etc would loan you 2k if it would give you full and final settlement with them.
Thats just me and I am sure there are people here more experienced with what way to go with it.

Citizen2011 · 24-07-2015 5:32pm

Don't pay them anything under the current circumstances. You have too much going on besides that you need to focus on first.

tipptom · 24-07-2015 5:49pm

Citizen2011 wrote: »

Don't pay them anything under the current circumstances. You have too much going on besides that you need to focus on first.

Will they not take her to court if she does not make some sort of nominal monthly payment?

darragh o meara · 24-07-2015 6:06pm

This crowd of yahoo's started hassling me two years ago. I just ignored them and they stopped. No court, just a few threatening letters but they never followed through.

They try to put you under pressure, but in reality they're the ones under pressure.

tipptom · 24-07-2015 6:18pm

darragh o meara wrote: »

This crowd of yahoo's started hassling me two years ago. I just ignored them and they stopped. No court, just a few threatening letters but they never followed through.

They try to put you under pressure, but in reality they're the ones under pressure.

How much did you owe them though,was it as much as 12k?

davo10 · 24-07-2015 6:20pm

darragh o meara wrote: »

This crowd of yahoo's started hassling me two years ago. I just ignored them and they stopped. No court, just a few threatening letters but they never followed through.

They try to put you under pressure, but in reality they're the ones under pressure.

The game changed last week, the Civil Debts (procedures) Bill 2015 allows businesses to apply to have attachment orders on wages and benefits
The Bill, published by Minister for Justice Frances Fitzgerald on Tuesday, will allow creditors to seek an attachment of earnings order, for a deduction from a debtor’s wages, from the District Court..

Fred Swanson · 24-07-2015 6:26pm

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yosser hughes · 24-07-2015 6:27pm

Under the current civil debt legislation, utility companies including Irish Water as well as sole traders can apply to the courts to recover payment of debts ranging from €500 to €4,000. The money can be repaid through reductions from certain social welfare payments or through attachment of earnings, if the court so decides. Consumer debts owed to financial institutions or licensed moneylenders arising from loans are excluded from the scope of the legislation.

edit: just saw Fred's post above.
@davo10 why would you post misleading information? If you don't know the facts, don't post inaccuracies.

davo10 · 24-07-2015 6:38pm

Fred Swanson wrote: »

They still need an initial judgement to begin with. That costs them an awful amount of money in drafting and legal fees. They can't unilaterally get money from someone's wages/dole without the approval of the courts. So not as simple as you state.

http://www.justice.ie/en/JELR/Pages/PR15000421

The Bill only covers debts up to €4000. So anything above that is not covered. And it only covers those that won't pay not those that can't pay.

And the most important point:

Hopefully that will be the end of these vulture debt collecting companies but for €12k I can see the merit of businesses spending a couple of hundred euro applying to the court to at least recover €4k. I think it is only right too, for every person who can't pay I am sure there are many more who don't want to pay.

davo10 · 24-07-2015 6:43pm

yosser hughes wrote: »

Under the current civil debt legislation, utility companies including Irish Water as well as sole traders can apply to the courts to recover payment of debts ranging from €500 to €4,000. The money can be repaid through reductions from certain social welfare payments or through attachment of earnings, if the court so decides. Consumer debts owed to financial institutions or licensed moneylenders arising from loans are excluded from the scope of the legislation.

edit: just saw Fred's post above.
@davo10 why would you post misleading information? If you don't know the facts, don't post inaccuracies.

I'll admit I don't know the details of the bill and I wasn't aware of the exclusions, I caught snippets of the news items about it last week and didn't realise it didn't apply to lending institutions. The bit I read about it only referred to "creditors".

Cabot and Belgard solicitors

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