National Postcodes to be introduced

How when it only links to the location of your property?

ukoda wrote: »

Ah stop, seriously. They will Google the persons address and with or without ericode it will come up, if it's a non unique address they will get the person to point it out on the map, they won't decide to cut him loose.

Should the rest of the developed countries do away with their unique addressing system to try cut down on this type of extortion?

Let's make everyone's address vague to solve this "privacy issue"

I don't know what "new light" you think this throws on the privacy issue, but you might want to check what bulb you're using.

I want to know how you find your house on google with out an eircode!

See eircode have updated their site from Spring to Summer, I suspect it will up date for Autumn.

Elmo wrote: »

I want to know how you find your house on google with out an eircode!

See eircode have updated their site from Spring to Summer, I suspect it will up date for Autumn.

Type in my address, or just zoom and scroll till I find it.

I can't understand people arguing about changing it. Its done now your not going to change it.

oscarBravo wrote: »

So if you had to deliver to ED7-91-7NJ, EF5-96-7MJ and EF5-80-DP7, in what order would you load the van? No sneaky looking them up, now - you said you can tell from the code.

Fair enough question. Here is how my thinking on the above goes:

- You split them into two groups, one ED and one EF since you know the EF’s are closer together.
- Since they are all different locales you can dispense with the middle digits. They generally function as an X & Y coordinate within a locale, but I’ve seen a few oddities with it.
- The last digit functions as a check code. Google ‘Hamming code’ or ISBN for a good example to see how these work. Not much use for me here though.
- Second last and third last digits function as another X & Y coordinate.
- Ditto the first two digits, but in a bigger area.
- I know that ED will be further north than EF, and since we are based more North (and East) of that we’d be wanting to visit ED before EF (less miles with a full load on saves a small bit of fuel).
- I know that, within a locale, 7M will be West of DP. DP will be more North than 7M but this will be less so than the distance 7M is West of DP (the distance between M and P is smaller than the distance between 7 and D).
- Putting this together, I’d imagine we’d hit ED first and want to finish with the most Eastern point, which would be 7M.

So, coming from the NorthEast the route would be ED7-91-7NJ to EF5-96-7MJ to EF5-80-DP7 to the road home.

But since I don’t for one minute think you pulled those locations at random I’d probably have a gander at the map to make sure there wasn’t a mountain or something in the way.

This is how, from just looking at those codes, I can get a general idea of their locations relative to each other. Anyone want to attempt that with Eircode?

---

ukoda wrote: »

How have you been using loc8 for 3 or 4 years when no one puts them on their packages for delivery?

Because we don’t deliver ‘packages’. Most times we get a delivery address from speaking with the person on the phone, but the problem with addresses is that, strictly speaking, it isn’t immediately obvious where they are in relation to each other.

You say you use GPS? Eircode will give you the Geo code of every package, yet you wont use it?

You try relying on a computer when you are loading a vehicle in the back arse of nowhere with no telephone line. Mobile data really doesn’t work in some of the places we operate from.

You can get a route planning app for your Phone that uses the camera to scan each package and then plans the route for you and gives you the list of postcodes in order they will be delivered so you can load the van accordingly, then you hit a button and it starts the route giving you turn by turn directions. This is called using modern technology to be as efficient as possible. But if you want to keep doing it the way you are doing it, then you are entitled to do that.

This is where I have to call bull**** and call you out for having absolutely no clue what you are talking about. The travelling salesman problem, when you start hitting more than 13 locations, is computationally infeasible for practical use. And that’s long before you get to the problems of multiple collection points, transhipments between vehicles, dealing with finite loading space in the van/trailer, dealing with the fact that some of the stuff we deliver is an awkward fecking shape, etc. etc. etc. To put it in technical terms, the solution space is too vast and too lacking in continuity with WAY too many local minima to make it anywhere near computationally feasible.

There simply isn’t a route planning app out that even comes close to helping us do what we do on a daily basis. And I know what I’m talking about here. I’ve done numerous genetic algorithms in VB and macros in Excel to do some of our stuff and speed it along, and nothing any tech-head has to doing even this functionality.ever shown us has even comes close. All I’m really doing is putting in checks based on years of practical experiences to help it along, but it is totally reliant on a human to put it all together.

A few months ago a freelance developer was pestering the boss about this, and he was claiming that he could program a custom solution. Dude could have been the best programmer in the whole fecking world, but when it came the raw mathematics of what we do he was WAY out of his league – something he very quickly realised.

Simplified example. Four furniture factories, three trailers, multiple different products (including some awkward shaped feckers) and multiple deliveries to be done over the course of a week. Show me any app that can even come close to what we do by hand. Just one. Because I could crunch the figures for the solution space right now and demonstrate it needs orders of magnitude above life-of-universe timescales.

And like I've said before, you can't please everyone 100%.

Again, you’re having a laugh. The lack of being hierarchical isn’t a feature, it really seems like a deliberate defect baked into it in order to make money from the database lookups.

Aimead wrote: »

Fair enough question. Here is how my thinking on the above goes:

- You split them into two groups, one ED and one EF since you know the EF’s are closer together.
- Since they are all different locales you can dispense with the middle digits. They generally function as an X & Y coordinate within a locale, but I’ve seen a few oddities with it.
- The last digit functions as a check code. Google ‘Hamming code’ or ISBN for a good example to see how these work. Not much use for me here though.
- Second last and third last digits function as another X & Y coordinate.
- Ditto the first two digits, but in a bigger area.
- I know that ED will be further north than EF, and since we are based more North (and East) of that we’d be wanting to visit ED before EF (less miles with a full load on saves a small bit of fuel).
- I know that, within a locale, 7M will be West of DP. DP will be more North than 7M but this will be less so than the distance 7M is West of DP (the distance between M and P is smaller than the distance between 7 and D).
- Putting this together, I’d imagine we’d hit ED first and want to finish with the most Eastern point, which would be 7M.

So, coming from the NorthEast the route would be ED7-91-7NJ to EF5-96-7MJ to EF5-80-DP7 to the road home.

But since I don’t for one minute think you pulled those locations at random I’d probably have a gander at the map to make sure there wasn’t a mountain or something in the way.

This is how, from just looking at those codes, I can get a general idea of their locations relative to each other. Anyone want to attempt that with Eircode?

---

Because we don’t deliver ‘packages’. Most times we get a delivery address from speaking with the person on the phone, but the problem with addresses is that, strictly speaking, it isn’t immediately obvious where they are in relation to each other.

You try relying on a computer when you are loading a vehicle in the back arse of nowhere with no telephone line. Mobile data really doesn’t work in some of the places we operate from.

This is where I have to call bull**** and call you out for having absolutely no clue what you are talking about. The travelling salesman problem, when you start hitting more than 13 locations, is computationally infeasible for practical use. And that’s long before you get to the problems of multiple collection points, transhipments between vehicles, dealing with finite loading space in the van/trailer, dealing with the fact that some of the stuff we deliver is an awkward fecking shape, etc. etc. etc. To put it in technical terms, the solution space is too vast and too lacking in continuity with WAY too many local minima to make it anywhere near computationally feasible.

There simply isn’t a route planning app out that even comes close to helping us do what we do on a daily basis. And I know what I’m talking about here. I’ve done numerous genetic algorithms in VB and macros in Excel to do some of our stuff and speed it along, and nothing any tech-head has to doing even this functionality.ever shown us has even comes close. All I’m really doing is putting in checks based on years of practical experiences to help it along, but it is totally reliant on a human to put it all together.

A few months ago a freelance developer was pestering the boss about this, and he was claiming that he could program a custom solution. Dude could have been the best programmer in the whole fecking world, but when it came the raw mathematics of what we do he was WAY out of his league – something he very quickly realised.

Simplified example. Four furniture factories, three trailers, multiple different products (including some awkward shaped feckers) and multiple deliveries to be done over the course of a week. Show me any app that can even come close to what we do by hand. Just one. Because I could crunch the figures for the solution space right now and demonstrate it needs orders of magnitude above life-of-universe timescales.

Again, you’re having a laugh. The lack of being hierarchical isn’t a feature, it really seems like a deliberate defect baked into it in order to make money from the database lookups.

Ok just to summarise what you are saying, you've multiple logistical problems that make your life difficult, from reading that, no postcode is going to save you from that.

No postcode is going to turn your delivery items into nice square cubes that will fit in your van. You prob have to load your van based on the shape and size of the items to be delivered not in order of delivery.

And you still haven't explain where you get the loc8 code from? The customer on the phone doesn't have it? So you look it up, get the geo? You can look up eircode too

ukoda wrote: »

Ok just to summarise what you are saying, you've multiple logistical problems that make your life difficult, from reading that, no postcode is going to save you from that.

To be utterly blunt here, that description was posted solely in response your ‘what don’t you use modern technology’ line. You brought that up and I introduced a little of what the reality is like as response.

As it stands right now I can glance at a list of GPS coordinates and know where they are with reference to each other and do a decent job planning a load. I cannot do that with Eircode.
As it stands right now I can glance at a list of loc8 codes and know where they are with reference to each other and do a decent job planning a load. I cannot do that with Eircode.
As it stands right now I can glance at a list of OS grid numbers and know where they are with reference to each other and do a decent job planning a load. I cannot do that with Eircode.
As it stands right now I can glance at a list of OpenPostcodes and know where they are with reference to each other and do a decent job planning a load. I cannot do that with Eircode.

Even the fecking address system allows a better chance of knowing where locations are in relation to each other than Eircodes. When almost every system in existence can do such a basic functionality and Eircode can’t then I’d say someone is having a laugh.

And you still haven't explain where you get the loc8 code from?

When a customer is trying to tell us their address, and it becomes clear they live or work in the back arse of nowhere, it is natural to offer them alternatives that will make both of our lives easier. We tell them we’ll take almost anything, GPS or whatever, as long we can work with it.

Eircodes can’t be worked with with because of the deliberate defect of being non-hierarchical.

Aimead wrote: »

When a customer is trying to tell us their address, and it becomes clear they live or work in the back arse of nowhere, it is natural to offer them alternatives that will make both of our lives easier. We tell them we’ll take almost anything, GPS or whatever, as long we can work with it.

Eircodes can’t be worked with with because of the deliberate defect of being non-hierarchical.

Let's be real here, no customers are going to be giving you their geo code or loc8 code / open postcode etc when you're talking to them on the phone, however they will be giving you an eircode from now on, pop it into Eircode Finder and and you get the exact geo co ordinates of your delivery, and as you've said above, you can work from those.

You get 15 look ups free per day, given that you seem to be delivering large and unusual shaped items I doubt you would have more than 15 in any one days delivery, but if you did you could pay for access as economy of scale kicks in.

So there you go, ericode is of use to you.

antoinolachtnai wrote: »

yes.



Nonetheless a code based on it would cost less than the 27 million plus it will cost the exchequer to roll out eircode. Going down to the individual house unit would also be easy cheap and low-risk.

Eircode is a needlessly expensive and risky project.

As pointed out before 91% of the cost of lol emerging Eircode has been for integrating systems and license fees, if the system was free it would still cost over €24 million overall.

A hierarchical post code does nothing for multiple addresses within buildings, unless you add a field for height above ground or something at the expense of making the code longer. The advantage to making the post code primarily a property id is that there's no ambiguity when assigning, and a hierarchical code (grid coordinates) can be obtained from it by a single one-time look up. So best of both worlds really. The disadvantage of having to look up a database (if all you have is a code) when trying to find find a location can be overcome with a minute amount of planning.