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Free Travel Pass being Scanned on Bus Eireann

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    #32
    foggy_lad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,373 ✭✭✭✭foggy_lad


    danjo-xx wrote: »
    aw got ya now, I often wondered how the poor drivers were expected to cope with all this, god knows they have their hands full just driving the bus and taking fares.

    Who are RPU, (inspectors I'm guessing) are they a private company contracted by c.i.e. or are they apart of the group.

    They are just bus and rail employees who have been trained in ticket checking and in dealing with those who might not have a valid ticket for their journey. some people can get quite irate when informed their ticket is invalid or that they need a ticket at all.

    The rail RPU have a Rail Warrent which gives them extra powers to detain people that other conductors and guards do not always have.

    As for the whole issue of ticket checking by a private company maybe that is one for Amarach:D


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    #33
    Slippin Jimmy
    Registered Users Posts: 6,031 ✭✭✭Slippin Jimmy


    They are apart of the group afaik. The revenue protection unit were in training a few weeks ago. I've yet to spot any of them around town. I'd imagine there won't be too many of them. But I think overall it will be great to see them catching fare dodgers.


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    #34
    LXFlyer
    Registered Users Posts: 17,556 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    danjo-xx wrote: »
    aw got ya now, I often wondered how the poor drivers were expected to cope with all this, god knows they have their hands full just driving the bus and taking fares.

    Who are RPU, (inspectors I'm guessing) are they a private company contracted by c.i.e. or are they apart of the group.



    RPU are Dublin Bus, Bus Eireann or Irish Rail inspectors (all internal staff).


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    #35
    punisher5112
    Registered Users Posts: 24,647 ✭✭✭✭punisher5112


    I can tell you know there is a hell of a lot more to the job then just driving the bus and operating the door.

    A driver shoiuld want to protect their job and not let people walk all over them.
    If one doesn't pay or have a legit pass then it is simple they don't travel and it is up to the driver and inspectors.


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    #36
    AlekSmart
    Registered Users Posts: 14,005 ✭✭✭✭AlekSmart


    danjo-xx wrote: »
    I don't get this, if that is the case then I could give my 'valid' card to someone else and they could use it.

    I thought the Photo of the holder on the card was the main security advantage. They could have made it bigger instead of postage stamp size for drivers to see it clearly.

    Their called Public Services Card now.

    You can indeed,and with any luck you will....as it will provide much needed experience for the new Revenue Protection Teams :D

    The FTP and it's associated technology is all about Automating a previously manual process.

    The Security is almost totally technological based,something which has already paid-off handsomely for the DSP...

    http://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/circuit-court/father-of-four-jailed-for-five-years-for-social-welfare-fraud-1.2068578
    The fraud came to light after the Department of Social Protection used facial recognition software to establish that the same photo was being used on a number of social welfare identities.

    http://campus.ie/surviving-college/facial-recognition-software-catches-serial-fraudsters
    More than 60 welfare fraudsters who had been using multiple false identities have been caught using new facial recognition software.

    They included one person who had developed up to 10 false identities to claim benefits.

    The fraudsters had received more than €1m between them in bogus social welfare payments before they were caught, the Dáil's spending watchdog was told.

    The facial recognition software is being used in conjunction with the new public service card, which is being rolled out to three million people around the country.

    During the next 12 months the Free Travel Scheme will be in an interim phase,wherein the old & new have to co-exist.

    The General Title is the Public Services Card (PSC),however the Free Travel version is the PSC-FT...a small,yet significant difference.


    Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one.

    Charles Mackay (1812-1889)



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    #37
    AlekSmart
    Registered Users Posts: 14,005 ✭✭✭✭AlekSmart


    punisher5112 wrote: »
    I can tell you know there is a hell of a lot more to the job then just driving the bus and operating the door.

    A driver should want to protect their job and not let people walk all over them.

    If one doesn't pay or have a legit pass then it is simple they don't travel and it is up to the driver and inspectors.

    It is the Busdrivers responsibility to ensure,to the best of their ability,that all passengers are in possession of a Ticket,Pass or Warrant.

    It is the Passengers responsibility to be in possession of the CORRECT Ticket,Pass or Warrant for their intended journey.


    Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one.

    Charles Mackay (1812-1889)



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    #38
    reggaeman
    Registered Users Posts: 135 ✭✭reggaeman


    punisher5112 wrote: »
    I can tell you know there is a hell of a lot more to the job then just driving the bus and operating the door.

    A driver shoiuld want to protect their job and not let people walk all over them.
    If one doesn't pay or have a legit pass then it is simple they don't travel and it is up to the driver and inspectors.

    Another problem for the driver.
    The public have only to show proof of ID (this could be made up) and driver must let them on. He then just records this information and issues ticket. When paying in his takings he includes the passengers information so as company can collect money from the passenger etc,etc


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    #39
    Aard
    Registered Users Posts: 4,905 ✭✭✭Aard


    lxflyer wrote: »
    RPU are Dublin Bus, Bus Eireann or Irish Rail inspectors (all internal staff).

    Would it make any sense for the NTA to take over Revenue Protection? Considering that they're the ones who set fares and deal with a lot (most?) of the finances.


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    #40
    LXFlyer
    Registered Users Posts: 17,556 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    Aard wrote: »
    Would it make any sense for the NTA to take over Revenue Protection? Considering that they're the ones who set fares and deal with a lot (most?) of the finances.

    No - that's the job of the operating companies.


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    #41
    mickmmc
    Registered Users Posts: 202 ✭✭mickmmc


    It is not fair in my book for a FTP holder to use it for travelling to/from work (allowing for exceptions with people with disabilities). Over 65s may have a pension and be earning a wage.

    It was a retrograde step when the late Seamus Brennan, former Minister for Transport, allowed the free pass to used for peak services.

    After the next General Election, with the data available from the new card, caps should be put in place for the amount of free trips per week/month for FPT holders. The current system is not sustainable.


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    #42
    FanadMan
    Registered Users Posts: 3,820 ✭✭✭FanadMan


    foggy_lad wrote: »
    They are just bus and rail employees who have been trained in ticket checking and in dealing with those who might not have a valid ticket for their journey. some people can get quite irate when informed their ticket is invalid or that they need a ticket at all.

    The rail RPU have a Rail Warrent which gives them extra powers to detain people that other conductors and guards do not always have.

    As for the whole issue of ticket checking by a private company maybe that is one for Amarach:D

    I have a FTP due to illness. A few months ago I was on the train from Galway to Dublin and an inspector (or RPU) was checking the tickets. When I showed him my old paper pass along with the ticket he got quite grumpy. Had to write out all my details for him and he went and phoned Social Welfare. When he came back he started giving out to me for not having the new card and how the trains shouldn't be dealing with the paper ones!

    A few weeks later I went to the local welfare office to see about getting the new card. I was told that they are first issuing them to people on Jobseekers and I'd be called next year sometime. When I explained what happened on the train, the woman in the office went off her head. She said that nobody should be spoken to like that - seeing as people on DA weren't being issued the new cards up here yet.

    I think that the new cards are great idea. Have seen people kicked off buses as they didn't have photographic ID with them (were probably using someone elses card) as the driver seemed to know them.


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    #43
    Kalman
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 233 ✭✭Kalman


    Aard wrote: »
    Will the movement of FTP users now be monitored?


    Local government picks up the tab for the free-pass.
    So under any further austerity measures, with these card readers , the ability is in place, to restrict the use of the pass to[say] two/ three or four times per week. I suppose it makes sense.     >>>>It's thinking ahead[/I].


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    #44
    Gatling
    Registered Users Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    FanadMan wrote: »
    When I explained what happened on the train, the woman in the office went off her head. She said that nobody should be spoken to like that - seeing as people on DA weren't being issued the new cards up here yet.

    I've mine and on DA got issued it last week ,I've always found IR staff to be quite courteous when I've had to use a train when it came to ftp users never liked been issued the purple and black tickets though .
    I'm fairly impressed so far with the new system it's handy been able to tag on rather than get eyeballed by other users for for having a ftp
    360_F_102352090_ie3kLjDIvgrT1sxVDknWCUh8PxgMYzM7.jpg




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    #45
    Gatling
    Registered Users Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    Kalman wrote: »
    Local government picks up the tab for the free-pass.
    So under any further austerity measures, with these card readers , the ability is in place, to restrict the use of the pass to[say] two/ three or four times per week. I suppose it makes sense.     >>>>It's thinking ahead[/I].

    Highly doubt they will restrict them at all most likely they might go the route of who's entitled to one though
    360_F_102352090_ie3kLjDIvgrT1sxVDknWCUh8PxgMYzM7.jpg




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    #46
    FanadMan
    Registered Users Posts: 3,820 ✭✭✭FanadMan


    Gatling wrote: »
    I've mine and on DA got issued it last week ,I've always found IR staff to be quite courteous when I've had to use a train when it came to ftp users never liked been issued the purple and black tickets though .
    I'm fairly impressed so far with the new system it's handy been able to tag on rather than get eyeballed by other users for for having a ftp

    The woman in the office in Letterkenny said that they weren't set up for issuing the cards to DA people yet - just Jobseekers at the minute. Maybe it was my pleasant demeanour that she sorted it for me :D

    I've normally found the IR people really nice to deal with too but this one guy seemed to either have an issue with me having a FTP or else maybe was hungover lol. I've travelled the same train a couple of times since and wasn't even asked for the FTP when showing my ticket.


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    #47
    Kalman
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 233 ✭✭Kalman


    Gatling wrote: »
    Highly doubt they will restrict them at all most likely they might go the route of who's entitled to one though

    Yes I agree, however, it remains an option. The 'bus-pass' as I understand, is issued to pensioners and for those who are restricted in their movements.


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    #48
    danjo-xx
    Registered Users Posts: 5,393 ✭✭✭danjo-xx


    Kalman wrote: »
    Yes I agree, however, it remains an option. The 'bus-pass' as I understand, is issued to pensioners and for those who are restricted in their movements.

    that is correct pensioners and people on Disability Allowance, plus in some severe cases a companion pass is issued if a person is not fit to travel alone.

    If the hours and number of times one can travel were to be restricted it could cause hardship to people that may be visiting a sick relative in hospital maybe even twice a day and every day for example, and that would be a shame if it were to happen.


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    #49
    Kalman
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 233 ✭✭Kalman


    danjo-xx wrote: »
    that is correct pensioners and people on Disability Allowance, plus in some severe cases a companion pass is issued if a person is not fit to travel alone.

    If the hours and number of times one can travel were to be restricted it could cause hardship to people that may be visiting a sick relative in hospital maybe even twice a day and every day for example, and that would be a shame if it were to happen.

    No, of course it will not happen, it would be a sad state of affairs.
    I do have a pass and it's great to be able to take the bus into town whenever I wish to do so>>>which is daily!


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    #50
    Aard
    Registered Users Posts: 4,905 ✭✭✭Aard


    The new e-FTP will make it easier to see how much of peak-time loading is taken up by FTP holders for the first time. If it's significant, and the numbers are there to back it up, it wouldn't be out of the question to restrict FTP use to off-peak only. Or at least not during the morning peak, which is a more concentrated window than the evening peak.


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    #51
    Kalman
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 233 ✭✭Kalman


    Aard wrote: »
    The new e-FTP will make it easier to see how much of peak-time loading is taken up by FTP holders for the first time. If it's significant, and the numbers are there to back it up, it wouldn't be out of the question to restrict FTP use to off-peak only. Or at least not during the morning peak, which is a more concentrated window than the evening peak.

    Yes, you are quite right. In England, I'm told, that you can only use them after 9:30 am. If you need to use the bus earlier, then you must pay half the fare.


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    #52
    punisher5112
    Registered Users Posts: 24,647 ✭✭✭✭punisher5112


    Had a woman get on with a pass earlier and I could see the new green card in the back of the plastic slieve holding the paper/card board pass and just said scan it on the machine of course it was only the social services card so I asked to see the pouch and took out a pass given to a person in 2004 but it was a photocopy and a good one but was on a A4 page just folded.

    She goes I have been using that for over 5 years and had a leap card an all but she happily just jumped off the bus no argument or anything which I would expect.

    I didn't ask her to leave as at the time it was so busy and I was been discreet in taking the pass it was only later I noticed it was a fake copy.

    If I had noticed this I could have got her real name as she had other cards along with the pass.

    Just shows you we have no idea what we have been getting shown over the years and it is disgusting they are and have been getting away with it.

    I wish other drivers and passenger realise that we all pay for these to travel for nothing when they aren't even entitled to do so.

    I am sick at what I am seeing out there and the sooner these new passes are the only passes out there and proper checks the better.


    There is no point in having 80 part time ticket checkers(drivers) out occasionally checking and only checking in handy spots.

    They need to be out at points along all routes where they get you in the centre of aroute or 70 % where most of the evasion is.

    The city isn't where the problem is it is further out.


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    #53
    Hibrasil
    Registered Users Posts: 392 ✭✭Hibrasil


    Any idea if FTP holders can ask / apply for a new eFTP Pass to replace the big akward FTP issued previously.....it does not fit in any pocket the odd time I use it....thanks for reply ( I know queston may be stupid)!!!


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    #54
    Gatling
    Registered Users Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    Hibrasil wrote: »
    Any idea if FTP holders can ask / apply for a new eFTP Pass to replace the big akward FTP issued previously.....it does not fit in any pocket the odd time I use it....thanks for reply ( I know queston may be stupid)!!!

    There issued through an invite only system at the moment depending on entitlement
    360_F_102352090_ie3kLjDIvgrT1sxVDknWCUh8PxgMYzM7.jpg




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    #55
    punisher5112
    Registered Users Posts: 24,647 ✭✭✭✭punisher5112


    Hibrasil wrote: »
    Any idea if FTP holders can ask / apply for a new eFTP Pass to replace the big akward FTP issued previously.....it does not fit in any pocket the odd time I use it....thanks for reply ( I know queston may be stupid)!!!



    Fold it and put in your wallet.
    Take out when need to show it simples.


    They are sending forms out to peoples addresses as they get through them.


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    #56
    foggy_lad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,373 ✭✭✭✭foggy_lad


    FanadMan wrote: »
    Had to write out all my details for him and he went and phoned Social Welfare. When he came back he started giving out to me for not having the new card and how the trains shouldn't be dealing with the paper ones!
    If anything like that happens again just report the ignorant swine! Pop off an email to the company involved and copy it to the free travel section in Sligo/Longford. The DSP woman was right, nobody should ever be spoken to like that. you also do not have to write out your details for any ticket check. your details are on the card.
    Kalman wrote: »
    Yes I agree, however, it remains an option. The 'bus-pass' as I understand, is issued to pensioners and for those who are restricted in their movements.
    http://www.welfare.ie/en/Pages/How-do-I-qualify-for-free-travel.aspx
    To qualify for free travel you must register for the Public Services Card. You must be living permanently in the State and be aged 66 or over. If you are under age 66 and permanently living in the State, you will qualify for Free Travel if one of the statements below applies to you:

    You are getting one of the following payments:
    Invalidity Pension,
    Blind Pension,
    Disability Allowance,
    Incapacity Supplement or Workmen's Compensation with Disablement Pension, for at least 12 months,
    Carer's Allowance, (you may get a single status pass only, if you are under age 66),
    a social security invalidity payment, or a similar payment, for at least 12 months, from a country covered by EC Regulations, or from a country with which Ireland has a Bilateral Social Security Agreement. See below for details.

    or

    You are a specified carer for a person getting Constant Attendance Allowance or Prescribed Relatives Allowance from this Department (you may get a single status pass only, if you are under age 66),

    or

    You are blind or severely visually impaired and you satisfy the medical conditions for the Blind Pension,

    or

    You are a widow, widower or surviving civil partner aged 60 to 65 inclusive and your late spouse or civil partner held a Free Travel Pass and at the time of their death, you were permanently living together. In this case, you must be getting one of the following payments:
    Widow's, Widower's or Surviving Civil Partner's Contributory Pension,
    Widow's, Widower's or Surviving Civil Partner's Non-Contributory Pension,
    One-Parent Family Payment,
    Widow's, Widower's or Surviving Civil Partner's Pension under the Occupational Injuries Benefits Scheme,
    a similar social security payment from a country covered by EC Regulations, or from a country with which Ireland has a Bilateral Social Security Agreement. (See below for details),
    an ordinary Garda Widow's Pension from the Department of Justice and Law Reform.


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    #57
    lulu1
    Registered Users Posts: 1,815 ✭✭✭lulu1


    I have the ftp and there is only my signature on it no photograph.


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    #58
    Gatling
    Registered Users Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    lulu1 wrote: »
    I have the ftp and there is only my signature on it no photograph.

    The new smart passes are been rolled out slowly they will have both your photo and signature printed on it
    360_F_102352090_ie3kLjDIvgrT1sxVDknWCUh8PxgMYzM7.jpg




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    #59
    lulu1
    Registered Users Posts: 1,815 ✭✭✭lulu1


    Gatling wrote: »
    The new smart passes are been rolled out slowly they will have both your photo and signature printed on it

    As I will be travelling to Dublin Kilkenny Tipp later in the month would it be a good idea to take another form of id with me just in case


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    #60
    FanadMan
    Registered Users Posts: 3,820 ✭✭✭FanadMan


    foggy_lad wrote: »
    If anything like that happens again just report the ignorant swine! Pop off an email to the company involved and copy it to the free travel section in Sligo/Longford. The DSP woman was right, nobody should ever be spoken to like that. you also do not have to write out your details for any ticket check. your details are on the card.

    He wanted name, DOB and PPSN - think he wanted to see if I knew them off by heart :D Still have the train ticket with all the info written down. He took the ticket and phoned DSP or someone to check. Was a bit stressed at the time after coming from the hospital so got a bit upset with the whole thing.

    If it happened again I'd def report it but at the time was a bit shell-shocked.

    But all's well that ends well :)


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    #61
    FanadMan
    Registered Users Posts: 3,820 ✭✭✭FanadMan


    punisher5112 wrote: »
    Fold it and put in your wallet.
    Take out when need to show it simples.


    They are sending forms out to peoples addresses as they get through them.

    Folding it and putting it in your wallet isn't a good idea. My paper one was in bad shape before I got the new plastic one (see above lol). Also a good idea to carry photo ID as some bus drivers can ask for ID and refuse travel without it.


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