Free Travel Pass being Scanned on Bus Eireann

danjo-xx · 06-06-2015 8:05pm #1

I was amazed yesterday when here in Waterford city the bus driver took my card and scanned it. He put it down flat on something in front of him to be scanned. Seemed like it was on top of ticket machine but not sure.

Anyway I'm impressed.

1. Has this been rolled out in Dublin or elsewhere.
2. What information is collected or given to the driver or is it just a numbers count.

[Additional information]:

Public Services Free Travel Leaflet Bilingual- Final for Web.pdf

http://www.welfare.ie/en/downloads/P...Travel-FAQ.pdf

http://www.welfare.ie/en/downloads/Public-Services-Card-Free-Travel-FAQ.pdf

Gatling · 06-06-2015 8:41pm

danjo-xx wrote: »

I was amazed yesterday when here in Waterford city the bus driver took my card and scanned it. He put it down flat on something in front of him to be scanned. Seemed like it was on top of ticket machine but not sure.

Anyway I'm impressed.

1. Has this been rolled out in Dublin or elsewhere.
2. What information is collected or given to the driver or is it just a numbers count.

This is across the board and went live in Dublin a few weeks back .
I believe there tracking number and usage but id wait for one of our the bus driver posters to confirm

n97 mini · 06-06-2015 9:07pm

Why the FTP was never integrated with Leap is one of life's great mysteries.

Gael23 · 06-06-2015 10:19pm

It's on Dublin Bus for sure. I never use BE in Waterford.

AlekSmart · 06-06-2015 11:51pm

danjo-xx wrote: »

I was amazed yesterday when here in Waterford city the bus driver took my card and scanned it. He put it down flat on something in front of him to be scanned. Seemed like it was on top of ticket machine but not sure.

Anyway I'm impressed.

1. Has this been rolled out in Dublin or elsewhere.
2. What information is collected or given to the driver or is it just a numbers count.

The SmartCard FTP system is now live on Dublin Bus services.

The Information available to the Busdriver relates to the Type of FTP entitlement.,ie: Personal,or with Spouse or Partner entitlement.
The expiry date of the FTP entitlement.
The Status of the Card,ie OK or Blocked.

The FTP card roll-out is now progressing ahead of target,with date for the annulment of the old Cardboard Free Travel Passes being brought somewhat nearer mid Q4 2016.

One of the surprising elements for me,has been the enthusiasm shown by the OAP FTP holders,the majority of whom have been very keen to use the new system since Day 1.

Most legitimate FTP holders recognize only too well the reality of their entitlement being protected into the future by the ability to,at last,sideline the fraudsters and wide-boy's who had brought the old Free Travel Scheme to the brink of collapse.

Long overdue and very welcome

goingnowhere · 07-06-2015 10:41am

n97 mini wrote: »

Why the FTP was never integrated with Leap is one of life's great mysteries.

The new social security card includes a leap application loaded with the appropriate free travel entitlement if available. The Leap infrastructure handles the rest including the blocking of a card if lost or stolen.

Aard · 07-06-2015 11:39am

Will the movement of FTP users now be monitored?

Gael23 · 07-06-2015 11:43am

Is it being done on long distance Bus Eireann journeys?

AlekSmart · 07-06-2015 12:45pm

Aard wrote: »

Will the movement of FTP users now be monitored?

Other than baseline data of an FTP user boarding a specific service,and the status of that FTP card,no other information is currently used.

Given that there is no requirement to scan/tag OFF,the duration of that specific journey is not known.

However,the new FTP scheme will doubtless give something new for those who see The Evil State interfering in their freedom,to complain about.

This fear can be circumvented successfully by NOT availing of the Free Travel Scheme,and instead paying a cash fare.....Problem Solved

Before anybody leaps up to give out about this...

I am personally aware of people who have refused to take up their 32 County Free Travel Entitlement because it entails applying for,and utilising,a chipped SmartPass issued by Her Majesty's Government,and so continue to pay a supplement for 6 County Travel.

There is NO State Provided system anywhere which can suit EVERYBODY.....there will ALWAYS be individuals whose beliefs, however unfounded they may be,outweigh commonsense.

Aard · 07-06-2015 1:45pm

I suppose what I mean is, will people's movements be monitored for "unusual" patterns (daily commuting, that type of thing) and subsequently investigated? Or is the data gathering merely to know that DublinBus carried x% FT passengers in a given year and the likes?

Peppa Pig · 07-06-2015 2:04pm

AlekSmart wrote: »

The Information available to the Busdriver

Is it the driver's validator that's used. I saw on a post on Boards that people were using them on the RH validator. Using this means anyone could use it.
Using the bus driver to check the pass will dramatically reduce fraud.

Slippin Jimmy · 07-06-2015 2:08pm

Peppa Pig wrote: »

Is it the driver's validator that's used. I saw on a post on Boards that people were using them on the RH validator. Using this means anyone could use it.
Using the bus driver to check the pass will dramatically reduce fraud.

RH validator is used. Seen drivers telling people to use this instead. Gives the driver the same details.

Gael23 · 07-06-2015 2:11pm

Slippin Jimmy wrote: »

RH validator is used. Seen drivers telling people to use this instead. Gives the driver the same details.

When I'm using mine, how does the driver know that I am the authorised pass holder?

Slippin Jimmy · 07-06-2015 2:40pm

Gael23 wrote: »

When I'm using mine, how does the driver know that I am the authorised pass holder?

Can't answer that tbh. Maybe someone in the know could fill in.

goingnowhere · 07-06-2015 3:47pm

Leap and the operators know nothing beyond the number of the card, this is a unique number and isn’t your PPSN.

So If the DSFA have an inquiry they can ask Leap to provide a record of travel for a specific card. Nothing stopping them getting a dump of all usage for a period, after all the DSFA are paying

In NI there certainly have been cases of investigation where the usage levels of a card were considered abnormal

On Dublin Bus when the RH validator is used a message is shown on the drivers TGX 150 showing the ticket type

Mrs OBumble · 07-06-2015 5:51pm

Aard wrote: »

I suppose what I mean is, will people's movements be monitored for "unusual" patterns (daily commuting, that type of thing) and subsequently investigated? Or is the data gathering merely to know that DublinBus carried x% FT passengers in a given year and the likes?

Lots of older people do travel every day, some to jobs, others to show, pubs etc. I suspect that some on disability would do the same. Nothing untoward about that.

Could be an interesting monitoring tool for keeping an eye on the welfare of older people who live alone, though: if someone was travelling every day and then suddenly stops, maybe they're sick or injured etc and a phone call might be in order.

And I'd imagine the guards might occasionally find it helpful to have a list of who caught which bus, incomplete though it will be.

foggy_lad · 07-06-2015 6:12pm

Slippin Jimmy wrote: »

Can't answer that tbh. Maybe someone in the know could fill in.

The driver has no way of knowing unless they ask to see the card and examine the picture on it.

Gael23 · 07-06-2015 6:59pm

foggy_lad wrote: »

The driver has no way of knowing unless they ask to see the card and examine the picture on it.

That's what I thought. Im 24 and have one due to a disability, which isn't clearly obvious by looking at me but I still don't have to show the driver my pass.

danjo-xx · 07-06-2015 7:33pm

Gael23 wrote: »

That's what I thought. Im 24 and have one due to a disability, which isn't clearly obvious by looking at me but I still don't have to show the driver my pass.

Sounds like the driver(s) know you from when you first presented the pass and just waves you on but that is bad practice as your pass could be out of date etc.

punisher5112 · 07-06-2015 9:47pm

FTP works like the following....

FT - P is personal only(card holder only permitted travel)

FT - S is for Spouse, civil partner or cohabitant

FT - C is a companion pass and permits anyone over 16 to accompany the pass holder.

For personal(card holder only) you place card on validator to right of door.

If S or C type and you are looking to bring along another on your pass you must place card on drivers ticket machine and state you are travelling with a companion or partner/spouse etc..

If all of the above are travelling alone then use validator to the right at door and place there till you get a single beep and green/
orange light, if it beeps 4 times and red light shows it did not work and place it up again without moving the card.

The driver will press Social welfare button and then another screen will pop up with a confirmation of type of pass and is it correct that the person is allowed to accompany the pass holder.

loyatemu · 08-06-2015 10:31am

punisher5112 wrote: »

FT - S is for Spouse, civil partner or cohabitant

FT - C is a companion pass and permits anyone over 16 to accompany the pass holder.

what is the practical difference between these - do you have to bring along a marriage cert for the first one?

punisher5112 · 08-06-2015 1:44pm

loyatemu wrote: »

what is the practical difference between these - do you have to bring along a marriage cert for the first one?

No but if you do happen to be checked by an inspector they can call the social and check.

Companion pass is set up for those that can't travel alone or need assistance but this isn't how most use them

Gatling · 08-06-2015 2:03pm

loyatemu wrote: »

what is the practical difference between these - do you have to bring along a marriage cert for the first one?

No but I'm sure it only covers your spouse or named co habitant if checked the old paper ones were supposed to be signed by your spouse /co habitant .
Where alot of people would say this mate or that mate is covered

punisher5112 · 08-06-2015 5:23pm

Gatling wrote: »

No but I'm sure it only covers your spouse or named co habitant if checked the old paper ones were supposed to be signed by your spouse /co habitant .
Where alot of people would say this mate or that mate is covered

That is still going on and showing a social services card not for travel they have all sorts of tricks.
New card won't stop this but they will have to go to driver and ask so hopefully make it harder.

AlekSmart · 08-06-2015 5:55pm

Gael23 wrote: »

When I'm using mine, how does the driver know that I am the authorised pass holder?

The Driver does'nt need to know you are anybody.....once the Validator recognises a valid FTP that's all that's required.

If you are bringing a Spouse/Companion then the FTP Card must be presented on the Drivers Machine,which increases the chances of a chancer being caught.

With the increased Revenue Protection regime now in the final stages of deployment,the checking of FTP's and all other tickets will be far more widespread.

Dublin Bus Passengers will soon begin to notice a significant increase in Ticket Checking,all of which...totally coincidentally...;)... dovetails nicely with the new FTP Card introduction.

AlekSmart · 08-06-2015 5:58pm

Gael23 wrote: »

That's what I thought. Im 24 and have one due to a disability, which isn't clearly obvious by looking at me but I still don't have to show the driver my pass.

You can now use your FTP,in a wallet or purse if suitable,to anonymously validate in the same manner as a ordinary LeapCard passenger...nobody has to know what kind of Card you are presenting...Just wait for the Beep & Green Light and walk on

AlekSmart · 08-06-2015 6:02pm

punisher5112 wrote: »

That is still going on and showing a social services card not for travel they have all sorts of tricks.
New card won't stop this but they will have to go to driver and ask so hopefully make it harder.

With the ongoing roll-out of the ordinary NON Free Travel Social Services Card,to every citizen in the State,the Spouses own DSP Card will be matched to the FTP Holders for Identification Purposes,so an Inspector would merely verify the spouse ID via their own DSP Card.

Kalman · 08-06-2015 6:09pm

danjo-xx wrote: »

I was amazed yesterday when here in Waterford city the bus driver took my card and scanned it. He put it down flat on something in front of him to be scanned. Seemed like it was on top of ticket machine but not sure.

Anyway I'm impressed.

1. Has this been rolled out in Dublin or elsewhere.
2. What information is collected or given to the driver or is it just a numbers count.

It can spot a fake.[pass] It records where you got on, the numbers of passangers using that service , the identity of the driver, the route, the date/ time and the zero fare if any. [ a lot of information]

danjo-xx · 08-06-2015 7:42pm

AlekSmart wrote: »

The Driver does'nt need to know you are anybody.....once the Validator recognises a valid FTP that's all that's required.

I don't get this, if that is the case then I could give my 'valid' card to someone else and they could use it.

I thought the Photo of the holder on the card was the main security advantage. They could have made it bigger instead of postage stamp size for drivers to see it clearly.

Their called Public Services Card now.

markpb · 08-06-2015 8:11pm

danjo-xx wrote: »

I don't get this, if that is the case then I could give my 'valid' card to someone else and they could use it.

I thought the Photo of the holder on the card was the main security advantage. They could have made it bigger instead of postage stamp size for drivers to see it clearly.

Their called Public Services Card now.

The drivers job is to drive the bus and operate the doors, it's not to validate the identity of their passengers. Should they also check the photos of all the monthly and annual ticket holders too? Nope, that's what RPU are there for.

danjo-xx · 08-06-2015 8:30pm

markpb wrote: »

The drivers job is to drive the bus and operate the doors, it's not to validate the identity of their passengers. Should they also check the photos of all the monthly and annual ticket holders too? Nope, that's what RPU are there for.

aw got ya now, I often wondered how the poor drivers were expected to cope with all this, god knows they have their hands full just driving the bus and taking fares.

Who are RPU, (inspectors I'm guessing) are they a private company contracted by c.i.e. or are they apart of the group.

Free Travel Pass being Scanned on Bus Eireann

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