FSA "off topic" thread - No discussion relating to FSA or Soccer - please read post 1

Nib · 19-05-2015 7:41pm

Yes to gay marriage and a no to the presidential age.

KevIRL · 19-05-2015 7:43pm

FHFC wrote: »

Maybe I'm just old and grumpy but I think the idea of wanting to facilitate a 21 to be the President is ludicrous. To go to the expense and effort of a constitutional referendum on the subject is beyond mad. An emphatic NO from me. Any 21 who would want to be President of Ireland is a fcked up puppy to begin with and shouldn't be let anywhere near the Aras.

I'd be largely of the same opinion and was in the no camp on the president age one but it was pointed out to me that if a 21yr old ran it would be possible to just not vote for them. So am in the undecided now.
Definitely agree its a frivolous referendum but that in itself isn't a reason to vote no for me.

What way you swaying in the marriage referendum?

Lemlin · 19-05-2015 7:44pm

KevIRL wrote: »

How is the FSA voting on Friday? Its a yes in the marriage referendum for me, undecided about the presidential age one

I wasn't planning to vote tbh which is unusual for me. Neither topic really concerns me (cue aghast surprise!).

I am now planning to vote no against the marriage referendum though. I realise there are some right lunatics on the no side but, for me, the sanctimonious position taken by the yes side has left a bad taste in my mouth.

Anyone that even mentions voting no is called a homophobe or some other connotation of same. I see it as bullying tactics and it has really annoyed me. People are entitled to their opinion and free speech.

Invincible · 19-05-2015 7:56pm

I'm voting no to each, if in doubt, chuck it out!
If they were proposing a maximum age, ie pension age that would be a different thing.
Regarding the marriage thing, its opening up a whole can of worms and at the end of the day, it was Adam & Eve, not Adam & Eamon :-)

Mr.Prodston · 19-05-2015 7:59pm

Voting yes to both.

The marriage referendum is the easiest decision I will ever have to make in my life. It's not a decision it's simply the right thing to do in my eyes. There's over zealousness on both sides for sure but isn't there for everything. Who am I to deny the happiness and equal opportunities to anyone who deserves them. I feel so incredibly strongly and am yet to see a proper reason not too, however I do my best to respect everyone's views and certainly would not result in any name calling.

Bob Dylan once wrote, "The times, they are a-changin" Ron Burgundy had never heard that song

The presidential thing doesn't bother me either way really but if the right person to be president happens to be under 35 why the hell would we deny that at such an arbitrary cut off point. Unless all the 21 year old and younger rally together, infiltrate the county councils or political parties to get a nomination then we won't be having a 21 year old run for president. And if that were to happen then wouldn't it be fantastic to see people taking the initiative. Somebody who's 29 or 33 etc is no different to 36 or 37 really.

Plus I'm 24. Vote Mr.P number 1 :pac:

KevIRL · 19-05-2015 8:08pm

Lemlin wrote: »

I wasn't planning to vote tbh which is unusual for me. Neither topic really concerns me (cue aghast surprise!).

I am now planning to vote no against the marriage referendum though. I realise there are some right lunatics on the no side but, for me, the sanctimonious position taken by the yes side has left a bad taste in my mouth.

Anyone that even mentions voting no is called a homophobe or some other connotation of same. I see it as bullying tactics and it has really annoyed me. People are entitled to their opinion and free speech.

Sure everyone is entitled to opinion. Your line on it though is bizarre to me. In something that you have admitted you feel doesn't concern you, you are willing to deny others equal rights just because of perceived attitude from one side of the campaign, all the while acknowledging that the other side has poor attitude too.

Lucas Hood · 19-05-2015 8:15pm

Voting yes to marriage one. no to presidential one .

We'd end up with Niall Horan as president if we lowered it to that age.

Copper_pipe · 19-05-2015 8:17pm

Lucas Hood wrote: »

Voting yes to marriage one. no to presidential one .

We'd end up with Copper_pipe as president if we lowered it to that age.

Fixed

Lemlin · 19-05-2015 8:54pm

KevIRL wrote: »

Sure everyone is entitled to opinion. Your line on it though is bizarre to me. In something that you have admitted you feel doesn't concern you, you are willing to deny others equal rights just because of perceived attitude from one side of the campaign, all the while acknowledging that the other side has poor attitude too.

I didn't say the no side has a poor attitude. I said there are some religious lunatics spouting complete and utter crap. That said, I haven't seen them resort to the bullying and name calling tactics that the yes side has. I don't really appreciate you attempting to twist my point either tbh. I'd see that kind of behaviour as typical of the yes side.

Here's an article with some good commentary on the fact that people are now afraid to even say they'll vote no. It's the most undemocratic referendum I've ever seen and that's what I worry about.

http://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/government-s-dictatorial-attitude-makes-people-slow-to-say-they-re-voting-no-1.2217274

I think it's become the popular thing to vote yes. Every day I see idiots on Facebook with "Yes Equality" stamps emblazoned on their profile pictures. The same clowns wouldn't be able to name their local TD. All they are interested in is rubber stamping to the world that they'll be voting yes as if it's some sort of popularity mark.

I also don't see how I am denying anyone equality. I'm not particularly religious but, for me, a wedding takes place in a church. I'm not denying anyone that because even a yes vote won't allow that.

Swiper the fox · 19-05-2015 9:07pm

I'll preface by saying that I am voting yes for the main one but my reasons are my own.
I realise this is an off topic thread and in the past I have been chastised for something called back seat modding but I think this discussion doesn't need to be had here, why bother??

the fear with the 21 year old president in my eyes is that we will have a protest vote akin to Dustin for Eurovision and end up with one of Jedward.#

#or heaven forbid copper pipe (can't even drive ahis 1998 Honda Civic, never mind the whole country) :pac:

Lemlin · 19-05-2015 9:10pm

Swiper the fox wrote: »

I realise this is an off topic thread and in the past I have been chastised for something called back seat modding but I think this discussion doesn't need to be had here, why bother??

I agree with this tbh. I was just posting an answer to the question but wasn't expecting Kev to take it upon himself to start a debate when I posted. I wouldn't have bothered posting had I realised that.

KevIRL · 19-05-2015 9:12pm

Lemlin wrote: »

I didn't say the no side has a poor attitude. I said there are some religious lunatics spouting complete and utter crap. That said, I haven't seen them resort to the bullying and name calling tactics that the yes side has. I don't really appreciate you attempting to twist my point either tbh. I'd see that kind of behaviour as typical of the yes side.

Here's an article with some good commentary on the fact that people are now afraid to even say they'll vote no. It's the most undemocratic referendum I've ever seen and that's what I worry about.

http://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/government-s-dictatorial-attitude-makes-people-slow-to-say-they-re-voting-no-1.2217274

I think it's become the popular thing to vote yes. Every day I see idiots on Facebook with "Yes Equality" stamps emblazoned on their profile pictures. The same clowns wouldn't be able to name their local TD. All they are interested in is rubber stamping to the world that they'll be voting yes as if it's some sort of popularity mark.

I also don't see how I am denying anyone equality. I'm not particularly religious but, for me, a wedding takes place in a church. I'm not denying anyone that because even a yes vote won't allow that.

Hang on a second now, I didn't twist any point. I didn't name call. I acknowledged everyone can have an opinion. I gave my opinion on your post.

iroced · 19-05-2015 9:12pm

Ahah you're having this debate now in Ireland. We had it in France a couple of years ago though they didnn't ask us to vote. Gay marriage was one of the electoral promise from our President, so he just did what he promised (for once :rolleyes:). Personally I didn't give a damn but would have nothing against "marriage equality". Anyway, like a French humorist used to say to tone down the raging debate the country was having, I'm very much gay, though only of the lesbian kind

:pac:.

The debate in the country was associated with protests and counterprotests (and it inevitably sometimes ended up in violence and bloodshed), it lasted for ages (almost an entire year) and it's actually just back again since last week the Protestant Church accepted to give its benediction to gay couples.

I thought it was such a terrible and pathetic depiction of what my country is becoming/has become. People were mixing up everything (e.g. surrogacy and gay marriage :rolleyes:), all debates on TV/radio were quickly flaming up (to caricature it, you were either a queer or a homophobe :rolleyes:...). Jeez... France was and still is experiencing the worst economical crisis of its History, yet people (and politicians) kept fighting about gay marriage for over a year. Like it was the most important thing to fix in the whole country :mad: :rolleyes:.

I don't know how heated the situation currently is in Ireland but I really hope you won't have to go through what we experienced in France.
Edit. Well I think I have my answer now...

KevIRL · 19-05-2015 9:15pm

Swiper the fox wrote: »

I'll preface by saying that I am voting yes for the main one but my reasons are my own.
I realise this is an off topic thread and in the past I have been chastised for something called back seat modding but I think this discussion doesn't need to be had here, why bother??

the fear with the 21 year old president in my eyes is that we will have a protest vote akin to Dustin for Eurovision and end up with one of Jedward.#

#or heaven forbid copper pipe (can't even drive ahis 1998 Honda Civic, never mind the whole country) :pac:

Its an off topic thread and this couldn't be any more off topic from fantasy football really....

Lemlin · 19-05-2015 9:17pm

KevIRL wrote: »

Hang on a second now, I didn't twist any point. I didn't name call. I acknowledged everyone can have an opinion. I gave my opinion on your post.

You used negative words like "bizarre", "deny" and "perceived" to describe my opinion. I'm not an idiot Kev and you aren't either. We both know what you were doing. I'm entitled to my opinion but it's "bizarre", "perceived" and "denying others equal rights"....

I also said the no side had "some", as in few. You didn't acknowledge that. You attempted to state I had said both sides were equal in their wrongdoing which I did not. I see that as twisting my point.

I didn't accuse you of name calling. I accused you of twisting my point which I have outlined above.

Swiper the fox · 19-05-2015 9:22pm

KevIRL wrote: »

Its an off topic thread and this couldn't be any more off topic from fantasy football really....

The debate is characterised by such pettiness and misunderstanding on both sides that it can only end badly on what is an extremely friendly forum where our political or religious views or levels of liberalness(is that a word??) are unimportant.
It's already begun and I would prefer if it didn't have to happen, that's all.

jimmii · 19-05-2015 9:23pm

I think no matter which side you fall on its safe to say this probably hasn't been handled the best by either side. It's got very dirty all round. I live and work in between the outhouse and panti bar looking forward to the party at the weekend if yes does come through!

sneachtafear · 19-05-2015 10:56pm

Yeah right anyway....looking forward to the eurovision!

PARlance · 19-05-2015 11:19pm

Leo comes out (Jan 18th) and a month later (Feb 21st I think) a marriage referendum is announced. FG's rating on the up since January.
I expect the date for the next general election to be called fairly shortly after this referendum. I also think Leo is a shoe in for next leader (both of FG and the country).

It has been handled brilliantly in a political sense by FG imo. Iroced raised the point of distraction and I think it's exactly that and that it was politically motivated.

I'll be voting yes (I'm a FG'er too) but there are so many reasons why I'll be doing so in annoyance.
The main reason I'm voting yes is the fear of what message a no vote sends to a young gay or lesbian. I'm quite annoyed that has become my main reason.
It's a marriage referendum, not an equality referendum. Equality can be achieved in many ways, I think this whole process has become a very poor and potentially a very damaging way of achieving it.

19-05-2015 11:28pm

To vote one way, because the other side are bullying the other is farcical. You (plural, not you Lemlin) are of course perfectly entitled to do that, should you wish, but it is not what voting should be about.

The no side are afraid to say what they really think, because it is a backwards mentality, and have tried to confuse the issue from the off. If somebody came out and said they just don't like gay people, I'd have more respect than the current "What about the children" bollocks.

I have yet to see one valid reason to not vote yes.

PARlance · 19-05-2015 11:43pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

The no side are afraid to say what they really think, because it is a backwards mentality, and have tried to confuse the issue from the off. If somebody came out and said they just don't like gay people, I'd have more respect than the current "What about the children" bollocks.

The "what about the children" B has been perfectly balanced, if not outweighed, by the "you're a homophobe" B and that's a real shame.

20-05-2015 12:07am

I'd almost agree. I've yet to see any posters calling no voters homophobes though.

wonski · 20-05-2015 12:29am

Deleted User wrote: »

I'd almost agree. I've yet to see any posters calling no voters homophobes though.

There was a person calling homophobes the guys protesting against water charges not so long ago:D

The person didn't get the protesters point, apparently.

I have to admit that since I moved in to Ireland I see YES / NO signs every year on the streets. The message is way too simple in these cases.

Too many YES/NO signs around. MAYBE feels discriminated.

PARlance · 20-05-2015 12:48am

wonski wrote: »

There was a person calling homophobes the guys protesting against water charges not so long ago:D

The person didn't get the protesters point, apparently.

I have to admit that since I moved in to Ireland I see YES / NO signs every year on the streets. The message is way too simple in these cases.

Too many YES/NO signs around. MAYBE feels discriminated.

You're either For or Against something these days. Giving something some thought can be a sin.... life is moving too fast now to reflect on something.
Within moments of news item you'll see a polarised reaction online... the rush to be "on a side" seems great amongst many.

Lemlin · 20-05-2015 6:30am

wonski wrote: »

There was a person calling homophobes the guys protesting against water charges not so long ago:D

I was in Navan in Meath at the weekend and saw a group of people outside the shopping centre collecting donations to support fighting the water charges.

I found it somewhat ironic. I thought the idea is to protest against the charges as they are placing an extra expense on people.

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I'd almost agree. I've yet to see any posters calling no voters homophobes though.

You just did in your other post. You yourself described the the no side as "they just don't like gay people". The definition of homophobia "dislike of or prejudice against homosexual people". You mightn't have used the actual word but you did reduce the no side to being homophobes. What of the gay people actually calling for a no vote? It must be tough on them as homophobes trying to maintain a relationship!

[Deleted User] wrote: »

To vote one way, because the other side are bullying the other is farcical. You (plural, not you Lemlin) are of course perfectly entitled to do that, should you wish, but it is not what voting should be about.

The no side are afraid to say what they really think, because it is a backwards mentality, and have tried to confuse the issue from the off. If somebody came out and said they just don't like gay people, I'd have more respect than the current "What about the children" bollocks.

I have yet to see one valid reason to not vote yes.

I've no real wish to engage in this anymore but your post proves my point also. Why do you feel the need to take the moral high ground and call my opinion "farcical"? There's been an awful lot of soapboxing from one side on the issue.

You're saying you've never heard of people protest voting? I remember one of the EU votes, the Nice Treaty or something, a few years back and the belief was that the No vote went through not because of the issue at hand but because people wished to protest vote against the government.

This evening, I tuned into the Prime Time debate. I've to watch it in full yet but caught some snippets. When the yes voter from Amnesty International was asked why people should vote yes to the referendum, he said they should because he grew up dreaming of being married and not of civil partnership. He could not give any better reason so it appears that neither side has a decent argument.

To explain my reasoning again as I sign off on this - I originally had no plans to vote, I expect the yes side to win easily but I will now exercise my right and register what I see as a protest vote against what I think has been a very undemocratic referendum campaign from one side.

Shedite27 · 20-05-2015 9:05am

Ah lads, I realize this is the off topic thread, but can we not keep the FSA a referendum-free zone?

Invincible · 20-05-2015 9:12am

Shedite27 wrote: »

Ah lads, I realize this is the off topic thread, but can we not keep the FSA a referendum-free zone?

Well it was that way, but KevIRL was undecided with his selection yesterday and asked for opinions, as you do around here

Lemlin · 20-05-2015 10:24am

Shedite27 wrote: »

Ah lads, I realize this is the off topic thread, but can we not keep the FSA a referendum-free zone?

Here, here tbh. I'm sure there's something more interesting to talk about like the latest episode of Game of Thrones or that The Witcher 3 was released yesterday and the lads on the gaming forum probably won't even vote because they won't leave the house to take a break from playing it!

20-05-2015 10:46am

Lemlin wrote: »

I've no real wish to engage in this anymore.

Fair enough so, i'll leave it at that.

jimmii · 20-05-2015 10:54am

Who is going to be cheering on Ireland in the Eurovision tomorrow? Good of them to not put it on tonight so it didn't clash with the football!

FSA "off topic" thread - No discussion relating to FSA or Soccer - please read post 1

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