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Waterford GAA Discussion Thread 3 ***Updated Mod Note Post 1***

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    #392
    HatchetMan7
    Registered Users Posts: 328 ✭✭HatchetMan7


    Well we went 6/7 points down playing with extra men in defence and still won the game. Did we change anything when we were down so much? I didn't think we went too defensive today as we did against Galway but i could be wrong. Any thoughts?


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    #393
    deiseach
    Registered Users Posts: 1,243 ✭✭✭deiseach


    I guess Thurles is the most obvious geographical choice for a Waterford-Cork final, but wasn't it great to be in a venue where the attendance wasn't dwarfed by the capacity? Really added to the atmosphere. It also helped to be surrounded by Waterford fans, hasn't happened often of late. There was something in my eye as we all rose to applaud the panel as they warmed down...


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    #394
    KevIRL
    Registered Users Posts: 39,498 ✭✭✭✭KevIRL


    Just to put some figures out there regarding 'the league doesn't matter' brigade.

    Waterford league finals in recent times

    1998 (lost to Cork). Munster finalists, AI semi finalists
    2004 (lost to Galway). Munster champions, AI semi finalists
    2007 (beat KK). Munster champions, AI semi finalists.

    Granted we didn't go onto win the big one but safe to say we have a good summer after a very strong league.


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    #395
    TyrionPower
    Closed Accounts Posts: 204 ✭✭TyrionPower


    PTH2009 wrote: »
    Happy with the win love being wrong about results. I want to make a statement on behalf of myself

    The only reason I'm so pessimistic is because I'm afraid to be positive because I would just end up disapointed ( I suffer from personal issues ). I'm a big Waterford supporter and really hope we do well. That's the last I will discuss about that and want discussed by other users.

    It's bonus territory to be in the final and hopefully I'm able to go. I wish we were playing Dublin as it would be sometime different fan wise but it will give us an indication of were we are.

    I think it will be thurles as a double header with the camoige div 1 final

    You are always entitled to your opinion without having to explain yourself....
    We are Waterford after all - a bit of caution is there in all of us no matter who we are playing!
    But you know what it makes us enjoy the good days more


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    #396
    KevIRL
    Registered Users Posts: 39,498 ✭✭✭✭KevIRL


    3ships wrote: »
    Don't mind Thurles of course, how wide are the corner flags there?

    On a serious note, Waterford always do well in the Championship after getting to a league final. 63 ,98,04,07 -- 2015 I expect to be similar, would any more be pushing it ....

    Haha. Snap. Was just writing my post so missed this one. Great minds and all that jazz....


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    #397
    willietherock
    Registered Users Posts: 1,005 ✭✭✭willietherock


    bruschi wrote: »
    so you want to ignore actual stated facts and go on assumptions? fair enough. I'd advise to ask Brian Cody why the pitch dimensions of Nowlan park are the exact same as Croke Park, and why it is that way.

    In any case, the point being that to say Waterfords tactics wont work because of pitch size has been proven to be incorrect, and is not a valid reason to dismiss their tactics. there are other reasons why I believe they wont work come championship, but its not to do with pitch dimensions.

    Stated facts? Numbers pulled from a website claiming that Thurles is a narrow pitch ect? I prefer using my own eyesight to see goalkeepers driving puckouts the length of the field, free takers scoring pts from their own 45 at their ease fullback line clearences landing on the 21 ect ect. Unless the laws of physics are corrupted in that place Nowlan Pk is a short field.


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    #398
    Jarjohn
    Registered Users Posts: 269 ✭✭Jarjohn


    Pitch sizes from 2010
    http://www.hoganstand.com/Forum/MessagePage.aspx?PageNumber=2&TopicID=50172
    Some surprising ones


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    #399
    TGV
    Registered Users Posts: 74 ✭✭TGV


    All taken in good faith had with a smile. After the disappointments between 98 2008 it is reasonable to be cautious but wasn't it so much fun. We may be on a role again but this time it is a more balanced team, not depending on one or two individuals to get us a win. This looks like a happy cohesive team. The work rate has been mentioned already, but there is also skill, confidence and belief. For many years a game like today would have been lost, after two early goals or a free for a win in the closing seconds. Have some belief this team is going places and it's going to be funðŸ˜႒


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    #400
    PTH2009
    Registered Users Posts: 37,780 ✭✭✭✭PTH2009


    KevIRL wrote: »
    Just to put some figures out there regarding 'the league doesn't matter' brigade.

    Waterford league finals in recent times

    1998 (lost to Cork). Munster finalists, AI semi finalists
    2004 (lost to Galway). Munster champions, AI semi finalists
    2007 (beat KK). Munster champions, AI semi finalists.

    Granted we didn't go onto win the big one but safe to say we have a good summer after a very strong league.

    Different times these days though. Hopefully we have a good long summer but league and championship are different. I'd be frightened in the qualifiers anyone can beat anyone. The best thing for us to do is beat cork in the semi final and escape the qualifers lol


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    #401
    Professey Chin
    Registered Users Posts: 51,054 ✭✭✭✭Professey Chin


    willietherock wrote: »
    Stated facts? Numbers pulled from a website claiming that Thurles is a narrow pitch ect? I prefer using my own eyesight to see goalkeepers driving puckouts the length of the field, free takers scoring pts from their own 45 at their ease fullback line clearences landing on the 21 ect ect. Unless the laws of physics are corrupted in that place Nowlan Pk is a short field.

    Satellite view on google maps has goal to goal measured at 145m. Better then your eyes? Jesus you should take over from the Hubble Telescope. We could find life!


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    #402
    HatchetMan7
    Registered Users Posts: 328 ✭✭HatchetMan7


    Jarjohn wrote: »
    Pitch sizes from 2010
    http://www.hoganstand.com/Forum/MessagePage.aspx?PageNumber=2&TopicID=50172
    Some surprising ones

    i found 3 different websites that says Nolan park is 145-88m, they must all be wrong.


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    #403
    KevIRL
    Registered Users Posts: 39,498 ✭✭✭✭KevIRL


    So we play cork twice in the space of a month. Obviously the ideal outcome is to win them both. But if you were told we could only win one, which would you go for?

    For me it would be the league final, national titles don't come around often for us and it would be a great confidence boost in the long term for such a young team. Plus of course we'd get a second chance in the qualifiers


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    #404
    HatchetMan7
    Registered Users Posts: 328 ✭✭HatchetMan7


    KevIRL wrote: »
    So we play cork twice in the space of a month. Obviously the ideal outcome is to win them both. But if you were told we could only win one, which would you go for?

    For me it would be the league final, national titles don't come around often for us and it would be a great confidence boost in the long term for such a young team. Plus of course we'd get a second chance in the qualifiers

    All out to win the league, take each game as it comes.


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    #405
    PTH2009
    Registered Users Posts: 37,780 ✭✭✭✭PTH2009


    KevIRL wrote: »
    So we play cork twice in the space of a month. Obviously the ideal outcome is to win them both. But if you were told we could only win one, which would you go for?

    For me it would be the league final, national titles don't come around often for us and it would be a great confidence boost in the long term for such a young team. Plus of course we'd get a second chance in the qualifiers

    The Munster semi nothing beats a Munster final


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    #406
    KevIRL
    Registered Users Posts: 39,498 ✭✭✭✭KevIRL


    HatchetMan7 wrote: »
    All out to win the league, take each game as it comes.

    Ah yeah of course. I'm just throwing out a hypothetical situation (for the sake of discussion) where we win one of the games and lose the other. Which would you pick?

    Has to be better than pitch dimension discussion anyway...


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    #407
    Scaldy Ned
    Registered Users Posts: 180 ✭✭Scaldy Ned


    PTH2009 wrote: »
    Happy with the win love being wrong about results. I want to make a statement on behalf of myself

    The only reason I'm so pessimistic is because I'm afraid to be positive because I would just end up disapointed ( I suffer from personal issues ). I'm a big Waterford supporter and really hope we do well. That's the last I will discuss about that and want discussed by other users.

    It's bonus territory to be in the final and hopefully I'm able to go. I wish we were playing Dublin as it would be sometime different fan wise but it will give us an indication of were we are.

    I think it will be thurles as a double header with the camoige div 1 final

    LOL ....I think those "personal issues" are relevant to all Waterford people bud,,,:D Lets be honest if you're from Waterford you're scared to be optimistic....It always seems to go so wrong for us...But hey i've come round to take the joy of the win on the day. I'm almost afraid to say that i see a diamond in the rough in this team and perhaps they are the ones who are sick of seeing their parents being dissapointed and maybe they're the ones who will break through that mindset that nearly is good enough.
    I watched today and cursed myself for putting myself through it....Then the game turned we won by one point...Yessssss ...Thats what its all about. But if youre from Waterford youre probably ten times more likely to have a heart attack during championship season than any other county....LOL...Up the Deise


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    #408
    deiseach
    Registered Users Posts: 1,243 ✭✭✭deiseach


    I'd be chuffed if we beat Tipp at tiddlywinks. We've beaten them a grand total of twenty times in League and Championship hurling. So the little boys I saw today jumping around with delight after the final whistle - they've already seen 5% of our wins against them!


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    #409
    deiseach
    Registered Users Posts: 1,243 ✭✭✭deiseach


    What would be the need for shadow boxing for the final? It might have made sense back in the old days when you were aiming to peak for the Championship game and defeat there was fatal to your summer aspirations. That's not the case anymore.


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    #410
    PTH2009
    Registered Users Posts: 37,780 ✭✭✭✭PTH2009


    deiseach wrote: »
    What would be the need for shadow boxing for the final? It might have made sense back in the old days when you were aiming to peak for the Championship game and defeat there was fatal to your summer aspirations. That's not the case anymore.

    That was a crazy system. Tipperary in 2010 and Clare 2013 would not have won all Ireland's if that system was still in place


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    #411
    Mountainlad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,851 ✭✭✭Mountainlad


    I think Cork is actually probably more ideal than having played Dublin. If we were to beat Dublin in a league final say, then Cork would be waiting in the long grass come championship. Who says we can't beat them twice? Won't be easy of course, they showed great fighting qualities themselves to come back having not hurled a ball for 40 minutes.

    Some performance today. Was asking questions after 10 minutes, actually got very negative. Too many times we've been beaten well by Tipp since 2009, but the last 3 years in the league we've had the beating of them prevailing twice and hopefully that will translate into championship, if not this year soon. The big question asked was what would happen to Waterford if we went down, and sure enough inside 13 minutes we were 7 down with 2 goals shipped and our rookie full back on a yellow card against arguably the best forward in the Country.

    Not alone that but he'd been dragged out to corner back, where I thought myself he'd been exposed. But thereafter he only coughed up one point, I though Coughlan had a great game. I was wincing seeing Noel Connors looking to be at full back as the Waterford players were marking their men and if a situation like that arises again would much rather see himself and Fives swap.

    Barron and Moran were excellent, as was Maurice and I though Philip Mahony had a great game. Not mentioned as much as the others, he's really coming into his own. Austin Gleeson was playing clever balls first half and he was the go to guy for players to play long balls to the forwards. Second half he was a bit rash and wasted a few. Dunford was getting frustrated as he had a lot of space.

    I'd say Paul Curran is not likely to feature for Tipp this year after that game. Maurice has no turn but so dangerous with the ball in hand. It was strange watching Dunford play, the role they have for him he is everywhere but what a threat. Offers so much, but would like to see him close to goal more often as he is the goal threat and proved it today. Great to see him continue to have an impact after being taken out by O'Mahony, who I distinctly remember making a similar late tackle against Clare earlier in the year.

    Don't think Paudie Mahony missed a free, he's got nerves of steel. Some result, well done to everyone involved.


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    #412
    seananigans
    Registered Users Posts: 1,164 ✭✭✭seananigans


    KevIRL wrote: »
    Ah yeah of course. I'm just throwing out a hypothetical situation (for the sake of discussion) where we win one of the games and lose the other. Which would you pick?

    Has to be better than pitch dimension discussion anyway...

    70 minutes away from a national title, at least 380 from the AI , while a munster is special, its not unprecedented.

    no teams has won the league from 1b ,in fact no team has won a quarter or semi.

    we have a chance to do something no team has ever done,tell me no one on here wants that

    on a sidenote,the league format is to be reviewed before next year, our success from 1b is undoubtedly part of the discussion


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    #413
    Fireball07
    Registered Users Posts: 13,264 ✭✭✭✭Fireball07


    seananigans wrote: »
    70 minutes away from a national title, at least 380 from the AI , while a munster is special, its not unprecedented.

    no teams has won the league from 1b ,in fact no team has won a quarter or semi.

    we have a chance to do something no team has ever done,tell me no one on here wants that

    on a sidenote,the league format is to be reviewed before next year, our success from 1b is undoubtedly part of the discussion

    While that is all true, the quarter-finals were only brought in last year and the semi-final for 1B teams was only there since the previous year. I do hope Waterford win it, would be good for hurling, I think- would be a big confidence boost and the more strong teams the better.


    I don't think the format should be changed. In fact, I would have thought Waterford's success is more of a reason for keeping it the same. At the moment, the top division is very very competitive and there was a good 3-way battle for promotion too... I know Limerick fell away badly with a loss to Offaly but it should really have come down to the last day with 3 teams having the chance to win it, as it was it was just the 2. If they went back to an 8-team division, it would leave 1B very uncompetitive which would be a disaster.


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    #414
    cul beag
    Registered Users Posts: 969 ✭✭✭cul beag


    Credit to all involved today we played some great hurling at times. A big thumbs up to Barry Coughlan because after a shaky start he was immense and deserves a clap on the back for it.


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    #415
    Scaldy Ned
    Registered Users Posts: 180 ✭✭Scaldy Ned


    seananigans wrote: »
    70 minutes away from a national title, at least 380 from the AI , while a munster is special, its not unprecedented.

    no teams has won the league from 1b ,in fact no team has won a quarter or semi.

    we have a chance to do something no team has ever done,tell me no one on here wants that

    on a sidenote,the league format is to be reviewed before next year, our success from 1b is undoubtedly part of the discussion


    We all know that "The League is different" but that's been the cliche for established teams who don't have the same respect for it as the Championship...But that can also be a get out clause. I think that Tipp gave it all today and didn't want to lose to a team of young upstarts. From a Waterford point of view they'll say ...Ok not The Championship but a committed Tipp. Great experience for them and great for the coinfidence. I've been reading all week from all the experts that Waterford would put up a good show but would be overwhelmed by the first real test of their quality and Tipp would probably win by three goals minimum....And here we are.
    Lets not get carried away ...we are from Waterford after all...But you can only do what you have to on the day in question. I see it this way...Cork will now say "If we are to be serious contenders for September" we must take the wind out of Waterfords sails...This will make for an even more serious questioning of Waterford......If they can win........Who Knows !!!!!


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    #416
    Scifo
    Registered Users Posts: 18 ✭Scifo


    Teams are defined by the trophies they win....or don't win.

    The most talented team never to win an All-Ireland. Winners of the Greatest Munster Final of All Time. All-Stars, HOTYs, The People's Champions.... Great days out, summer Sundays of shoot-out hurling. Donal Óg waxing lyrically with a few celtic crosses in his back pocket, or in the till of some half-pub half-grocery down in West Cork waiting to be given out as change to some unsuspecting German local.

    TBTF for the 4 munsters and the League in '07. We have a 'tradition' of coming up short on the biggest stage so time to set aside some of the purist nonsense that's passed off as gospel.

    We have a young manager in charge, someone who's learning his craft. When the two Cunninghams, JBM, Davy, Whelehan, and Cody etc. were picking up All-Irelands, he was coming form a different place, somewhere we're all familiar with. And now he has the gumption to ask for a bit of patience and let him chart his own course, learning alongside the young adults that are showing signs of being quick learners.

    There will be rough days ahead, but there is an All-Ireland in this team once we nurture a bit more firepower and are left to learn. All-Irelands have never been won without an insatiable appetite for hard work and no little talent - we can't fault them on that so far. We may be naive, we may make mistakes and we may get it tactically wrong on occasion so perseverance will be required.

    Some say that you need to lose a final before you can win one, like us back in 1998. They don't go in for that much down in Cork or Kilkenny. Winning becomes a habit and begets winning. Most of these lads are used to winning underage, the challenge they now face is to translate that to senior. Starting with the league final. If you're good enough you are old enough a la Pele in 58 at 17 years of age.

    It's us and Cork in a national final. Forget talk of not showing your hand, or having one eye on June. Let June take care of itself. Cork need to learn that this time is different. It's not about miracle goals from out the field, over the shoulder points from impossible angles, a two-fingered salute cast in defeat, Corcoranesque ill-discipline due to the heart overruling the head or a county divided in two.

    Nor is it about robots slavishly adhering to a system, Jose hurling, 3-5-21-1-1-17-45 or whatever. It's about a young manager with a young team learning how to win in their own way, in a savagely competitive era of hurling. And I'd rather that any day than experiencing the many different ways we've learnt to lose. We, along with Mayo, could give seminars on that.

    Let's establish the substance and then work on the style. We have two Liam McCarthys and two NHL titles to our name. A total of 4 national senior hurling titles. Tipperary have 19 league titles, Kilkenny 17 and Cork 14, despite it being 'only the league'.

    It's about winning.


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    #417
    Deskjockey
    Registered Users Posts: 835 ✭✭✭Deskjockey


    A brilliant result today for this young team and hopefully this will give them some self belief that they can go ahead and do something special.

    Some points about today's game.
    1. Kevin Moran is an immense player for us
    2. It's great to see the Waterford public turning up in greater numbers than the past few years to support the team. Has been a while since I heard Wa-ter- ford, Clap- clap- clap being done with such gusto
    3. Mentioned already but was concerning to see Tipp finding the same player on the sunny stand side of the field 5 or 6 times in a row... on the half way line
    4. I was sitting near a Tipp fan roaring abuse at Barry Kelly for (gasp) having the temerity to give frees against his team. Funny how Barry has gotten under the skin of Tipp fans and Kilkenny fans in the last 12 months. Keep on rocking Barry, you're doing something right if you're not giving the soft frees to the big three teams like other fan referees.
    5. 16.445 is a fairly poor attendance for a league semi final in a central ground no more than an hour and a half from any of the fans (discounting the football loving brethren from the wilds of west Cork)
    6 Fantastic to see Maurice Shanahan presenting such an attacking threat
    7 Paudi Maher is an an animal of a defender (meant in the most complimentary way) and scored some fabulous points
    8. It's just so deadly to know that our Paudie Mahoney is such a unerring freetaker, he nailed some difficult ones today. He has ice in his veins.
    9. Finally I'm just so happy that this team had the strength of character to come back after conceding 2-4 in the first 16? minutes, it all looked like Tipp were going to steamroll us but the sleeves were collectively rolled up by all 15 players and the hooking blocking and sheer work ethic displayed in the game reflects very well on the team, manager and backroom staff.

    Up the Déise and roll on May 3.


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    #418
    westcork blue
    Registered Users Posts: 55 ✭✭westcork blue


    Thats the second time I've seen waterford play tipp this year and there has been nothing in either game. After the challange against them in the Fraher Field in January I posted here about having hope, today confirms it. We have a very balanced team with different lads putting there hand up each week to take responsibility.
    Standouts for me today were Shane Fives, Barry C, Moran, Barron and Maurice. I also though Steven Bennett had a really positive spell in the Half forward line where he won 3 clean puckouts. Hopefully he'll get a clear run at the summer as he's one of the most talented stick men I've ever seen.
    Aussie was a bit like the curates egg today, some brilliant runs mixed with poor finishing, great controlled passing mixed with wild uncontrolled. In full flight his control is astonishing. Tom Divine also looked really polished when he came on. Mix Shane Bennett and Dara Fives into the pot and we are really shaping up well.
    The attitude from the off this year has been great, they look and play like a really united bunch. Great to see a few more making the effort to travel, roll on May 3rd.


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    #419
    PTH2009
    Registered Users Posts: 37,780 ✭✭✭✭PTH2009


    westcork blue wrote: »
    Thats the second time I've seen waterford play tipp this year and there has been nothing in either game. After the challange against them in the Fraher Field in January I posted here about having hope, today confirms it. We have a very balanced team with different lads putting there hand up each week to take responsibility.
    Standouts for me today were Shane Fives, Barry C, Moran, Barron and Maurice. I also though Steven Bennett had a really positive spell in the Half forward line where he won 3 clean puckouts. Hopefully he'll get a clear run at the summer as he's one of the most talented stick men I've ever seen.
    Aussie was a bit like the curates egg today, some brilliant runs mixed with poor finishing, great controlled passing mixed with wild uncontrolled. In full flight his control is astonishing. Tom Divine also looked really polished when he came on. Mix Shane Bennett and Dara Fives into the pot and we are really shaping up well.
    The attitude from the off this year has been great, they look and play like a really united bunch. Great to see a few more making the effort to travel, roll on May 3rd.

    Don't forget Stephen Daniels


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    #420
    Waternut
    Registered Users Posts: 173 ✭✭Waternut


    Great performance by the lads. Delighted with Maurice's performance, hopefully he's maturing into the player we all expected him to. It's worth remembering that Pat Horgan, Callanan, Richie Hogan and even big Dan took until their mid twenties to mature into the players they became. Great performance again by the backs, I though De Burca and Fives were outstanding. I would still like to find room for Dara Fives, a potential game winner, hopefully he's genning over the injury problems. The next few weeks will be both exciting and interesting.


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    #421
    Orizio
    Registered Users Posts: 9,460 ✭✭✭Orizio


    HatchetMan7 wrote: »
    Well we went 6/7 points down playing with extra men in defence and still won the game. Did we change anything when we were down so much? I didn't think we went too defensive today as we did against Galway but i could be wrong. Any thoughts?

    Need to return to 15 vs 15 and bring back the old swashbuckling style. Its Waterford's tradition.


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