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Ryanair To The USA

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  • 16-04-2014 12:43am
    #1
    JCX BXC
    Registered Users Posts: 18,114 ✭✭✭✭


    I am probably not the only one who has read them news stories about the €10 ryanair flights to america.

    A thought just occured in my head though, what airports would he fly to?
    Most likely not Boston Logan, JFK or Newark.


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    #2
    keith16
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,061 ✭✭✭keith16


    Carnacalla wrote: »
    I am probably not the only one who has read them news stories about the €10 ryanair flights to america.

    A thought just occured in my head though, what airports would he fly to?
    Most likely not Boston Logan, JFK or Newark.

    That's all they are; stories. They would very likely have to fly to a major, federal airport.


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    #3
    JCX BXC
    Registered Users Posts: 18,114 ✭✭✭✭JCX BXC


    keith16 wrote: »
    That's all they are; stories. They would very likely have to fly to a major, federal airport.

    Why would you say that?


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    #4
    scudzilla
    Registered Users Posts: 11,911 ✭✭✭✭scudzilla


    Carnacalla wrote: »
    Why would you say that?

    You couldn't have a flight arriving from outside of the U.S landing in the arse end of knowhere, ya know how the Yanks are about security/immigration etc


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    #5
    JCX BXC
    Registered Users Posts: 18,114 ✭✭✭✭JCX BXC


    scudzilla wrote: »
    You couldn't have a flight arriving from outside of the U.S landing in the arse end of knowhere, ya know how the Yanks are about security/immigration etc

    Suppose.
    Ryanair might build their own airport (haha).

    Apparently their wont be flights from dublin.
    (Source: http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/flights-to-us-will-cost-just-10-on-ryanair-oleary-30041838.html )
    What about shannon?


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    #6
    scudzilla
    Registered Users Posts: 11,911 ✭✭✭✭scudzilla


    Carnacalla wrote: »
    Suppose.
    Ryanair might build their own airport (haha).

    Apparently their wont be flights from dublin.
    (Source: http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/flights-to-us-will-cost-just-10-on-ryanair-oleary-30041838.html )
    What about shannon?

    What about reading this thread ;)http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056132594


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    #7
    JCX BXC
    Registered Users Posts: 18,114 ✭✭✭✭JCX BXC


    I had read all that, but I couldn't find it so I started a new one:P
    Thanks for finding it though, I recommend for a mod to merge.


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    #8
    SamAK
    Registered Users Posts: 1,094 ✭✭✭SamAK


    10 euro flights me ring!


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    #9
    sdanseo
    Registered Users Posts: 9,233 ✭✭✭sdanseo


    SamAK wrote: »
    10 euro flights me ring!

    Indeed, you forgot the extras. It breaks down like this:

    €10 fare
    €50 booking fee
    €199 fuel surcharge
    €5 for the toilet
    €30 for the Wifi
    €10 for a Sambo
    €2 for crisps
    €5 for 300ml of warm beer
    €12.70 for the unauthorised overdraft


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    #10
    JCX BXC
    Registered Users Posts: 18,114 ✭✭✭✭JCX BXC


    In the uk, their is a large Air Travel tax, opposed to none in ireland.
    If he can't fly from dublin (and presumably from cork), he can't fly from the uk for €10 due to the travel tax, that leaves other parts of europe and shannon.


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    #11
    vellakare
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 31 ✭vellakare


    sdeire has it right:

    Indeed, you forgot the extras. It breaks down like this:

    €10 fare
    €50 booking fee
    €199 fuel surcharge
    €5 for the toilet
    €30 for the Wifi
    €10 for a Sambo
    €2 for crisps
    €5 for 300ml of warm beer
    €12.70 for the unauthorised overdraft

    My views and some knowledge:

    Budget Airlines don't work on journeys of more than 4 hours duration. That really puts a dampener on the Ryanair model. Tony Fernandez of Air Asia attempted to do Kuala Lumpur-Paris and Kuala Lumpur-London. In the process of doing so, he lost RM60 Million per annum per leg (*14 Million Euro).

    Ryanair will likely require a new higher grade branding if it wishes to enter the transatlantic market. Steerage is fine for 4 hours or less, but not more.


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    #12
    SamAK
    Registered Users Posts: 1,094 ✭✭✭SamAK


    vellakare wrote: »
    sdeire has it right:

    My views and some knowledge:

    Budget Airlines don't work on journeys of more than 4 hours duration. That really puts a dampener on the Ryanair model. Tony Fernandez of Air Asia attempted to do Kuala Lumpur-Paris and Kuala Lumpur-London. In the process of doing so, he lost RM60 Million per annum per leg (*14 Million Euro).

    Ryanair will likely require a new higher grade branding if it wishes to enter the transatlantic market. Steerage is fine for 4 hours or less, but not more.

    Longest budget flight I did was cattle class Aer Lingus to Canaries....just over three hours and the seat nearly fecking killed me.


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    #13
    JCX BXC
    Registered Users Posts: 18,114 ✭✭✭✭JCX BXC


    sdeire wrote: »
    Indeed, you forgot the extras. It breaks down like this:

    €10 fare
    €50 booking fee
    €199 fuel surcharge
    €5 for the toilet
    €30 for the Wifi
    €10 for a Sambo
    €2 for crisps
    €5 for 300ml of warm beer
    €12.70 for the unauthorised overdraft

    But if your realistic,

    €30 fare (tbh Its like their €9.99 flights, rare to come by)
    €4.50 online check in fee, or admin fee. (Remember, it's one way)
    €50 for a 20kg bag.
    €20 wifi.
    €6 for a sandwich.
    €4 cup of tea
    €3 bottle of water x2
    €2 Mars Bar.
    €10 for 2 magazines
    Total
    €132.50

    Return
    €265.

    Still cheaper than Aer Lingus, I got €374 return for the first time ever this evening! (Source: Shannon- JFK, 5th November-12th November.)


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    #14
    Strumms
    Registered Users Posts: 24,839 ✭✭✭✭Strumms


    He will basically need a new airline. Ryan Atlantic or whatever. The business model for TA is a lifetime away from intra-Europe short-medium haul. Many questions would need to be asked and answered satisfactorily to meet a profitable business model some of which would include...

    Would they pay to avail of pre clearance in DUB.

    The cost of fuel... Imagine burning 1 tonne plus of fuel during taxi out at JFK before even leaving the runway.

    What airports to serve ? Pointless flying somewhere with zero connectivity ie. a New York upstate airport... Nobody wants to commute another 3 hours or whatever after a TA flight they would rather pay extra unlike an intra Europe shorthaul flight which would only be a couple of hours...

    Having to provide meals FOC..

    Extra crewing...

    The airframes... 2nd hand 757s ? 787 ? A350 ?

    I'd imagine he might be holding off to see what the Airbus Neo and 737 Max may offer in the range factor before he makes his move if he indeed will..

    The competition... I doubt he will have the ability to bully any one of US, EI, Delta, American and United out of DUB to be honest.

    Ryanair Atlantic... I doubt we will see it and if we do it's a ways away...


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    #15
    JCX BXC
    Registered Users Posts: 18,114 ✭✭✭✭JCX BXC


    Strumms wrote: »
    He will basically need a new airline. Ryan Atlantic or whatever. The business model for TA is a lifetime away from intra-Europe short-medium haul. Many questions would need to be asked and answered satisfactorily to meet a profitable business model some of which would include...

    Would they pay to avail of pre clearance in DUB.

    The cost of fuel... Imagine burning 1 tonne plus of fuel during taxi out at JFK before even leaving the runway.

    What airports to serve ? Pointless flying somewhere with zero connectivity ie. a New York upstate airport... Nobody wants to commute another 3 hours or whatever after a TA flight they would rather pay extra unlike an intra Europe shorthaul flight which would only be a couple of hours...

    Having to provide meals FOC..

    Extra crewing...

    The airframes... 2nd hand 757s ? 787 ? A350 ?

    I'd imagine he might be holding off to see what the Airbus Neo and 737 Max may offer in the range factor before he makes his move if he indeed will..

    The competition... I doubt he will have the ability to bully any one of US, EI, Delta, American and United out of DUB to be honest.

    Ryanair Atlantic... I doubt we will see it and if we do it's a ways away...

    Please read subsequent posts before posting, I have said in 2 posts and citied a source stating that ryanair will.not be flying out of dublin to the us. And remember where pre clearence started, shannon.


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    #16
    sdanseo
    Registered Users Posts: 9,233 ✭✭✭sdanseo


    Slight element of humour intended in my earlier post seems to have been misplaced but the points we are all making are the same - you will not get from Dublin to NYC on a tenner.


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    #17
    Strumms
    Registered Users Posts: 24,839 ✭✭✭✭Strumms


    Carnacalla wrote: »
    Please read subsequent posts before posting, I have said in 2 posts and citied a source stating that ryanair will.not be flying out of dublin to the us. And remember where pre clearence started, shannon.

    Please STFU. I did indeed read previous posts. I dont require your say so to include the content which I have posted to as per above. If you don't like the opinions of others then why solicite responses on an Internet forum... Get a grip. :eek:


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    #18
    JCX BXC
    Registered Users Posts: 18,114 ✭✭✭✭JCX BXC


    sdeire wrote: »
    Slight element of humour intended in my earlier post seems to have been misplaced but the points we are all making are the same - you will not get from Dublin to NYC on a tenner.

    People said that about dublin to the uk. It happened. Again, there will be no €10 flights from dublin


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    #19
    sdanseo
    Registered Users Posts: 9,233 ✭✭✭sdanseo


    Carnacalla wrote: »
    People said that about dublin to the uk. It happened. Again, there will be no €10 flights from dublin

    It's an awful lot cheaper to fly a 737 to the UK than perhaps a 757 to the USA.

    737-800 burns around 5,000kg of fuel on a leg to the UK, about €2,500 in fuel for the trip. 178 seats.
    757-300 burns about 41,000kg over 3,000nm to the US, about €19,000 in fuel costs. 280 seats (less on a -200, albeit with comparatively lower consumption)

    Subsidise that to a tenner each times 280 seats max. It doesn't work. (Jet A1 about 54c a litre at the moment - source


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    #20
    JCX BXC
    Registered Users Posts: 18,114 ✭✭✭✭JCX BXC


    sdeire wrote: »
    It's an awful lot cheaper to fly a 737 to the UK than perhaps a 757 to the USA.

    737-800 burns around 5,000kg of fuel on a leg to the UK, about €2,500 in fuel for the trip.

    757-300 burns about 41,000kg over 3,000nm to the US, about €19,000 in fuel costs.

    Subsidise that to a tenner each times 300 seats max. It doesn't work.

    Nope it wont work.
    Neither will €10 on a trip to a uk if you sell every seat at €10.

    Im pretty sure he is waiting for the new fuel efficent version of the 737-900.

    If you do it at an average of €200 pp per way it subsidides the cost.

    Remember business class. Baggage costs. All the optional extras. If you sell 200 seats at €200(average) including business, bags. You get €40,000 then food and drink profits.


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    #21
    sdanseo
    Registered Users Posts: 9,233 ✭✭✭sdanseo


    Carnacalla wrote: »
    Nope it wont work.
    Neither will €10 on a trip to a uk if you sell every seat at €10.

    Im pretty sure he is waiting for the new fuel efficent version of the 737-900.

    If you do it at an average of €200 pp per way it subsidides the cost.

    Remember business class. Baggage costs. All the optional extras. If you sell 200 seats at €200(average) including business, bags. You get €40,000 then food and drink profits.

    I'd struggle to see them getting an average of 20 times the cheapest fare though. Most EU flights are advertised at 15-30 and sell for probably 50-80. On average.

    Is it possible to increase the variety of available fares on this sort of a route?

    Granted all the extras but at the rate we're working out here there'll be about 4 seats per leg sold at €10 and then it has to climb steeply to be economical.


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    #22
    JCX BXC
    Registered Users Posts: 18,114 ✭✭✭✭JCX BXC


    sdeire wrote: »
    I'd struggle to see them getting an average of 20 times the cheapest fare though. Most EU flights are advertised at 15-30 and sell for probably 50-80. On average.

    Is it possible to increase the variety of available fares on this sort of a route?

    Granted all the extras but at the rate we're working out here there'll be about 4 seats per leg sold at €10 and then it has to climb steeply to be economical.

    Its hard to calculate but id say its very possible.


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    #23
    sdanseo
    Registered Users Posts: 9,233 ✭✭✭sdanseo


    Carnacalla wrote: »
    Its hard to calculate but id say its very possible.

    All conjecture for now either way :)

    If they can pull it off, they will. They're not turning a profit on scratch card sales alone, they're doing closer to everything right than something right. Time will tell.


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    #24
    billy few mates
    Registered Users Posts: 6,920 ✭✭✭billy few mates


    Carnacalla wrote: »
    Its hard to calculate but id say its very possible.

    Classic....


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    #25
    BeardySi
    Registered Users Posts: 1,705 ✭✭✭BeardySi


    yup, its been ages since we last saw this thread... it the moon full?


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    #26
    billie1b
    Registered Users Posts: 3,807 ✭✭✭billie1b


    sdeire wrote: »
    737-800 burns around 5,000kg of fuel on a leg to the UK, about €2,500 in fuel for the trip. 178 seats.

    In all my years working on the 800's, i've never seen a flight to the UK burning 5000kg of fuel, you'd get to Barcelona from Dublin on 5000kg of fuel burn. The heaviest i've ever seen to the UK was London at 2800kg, at the was in very bad weather.


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    #27
    flazio
    Registered Users Posts: 12,849 ✭✭✭✭flazio


    scudzilla wrote: »
    You couldn't have a flight arriving from outside of the U.S landing in the arse end of knowhere, ya know how the Yanks are about security/immigration etc
    Wouldn't the fact that you go through US Border control in DUB or SNN mean you could do just that?


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    #28
    Dublinflyer
    Registered Users Posts: 594 ✭✭✭Dublinflyer


    flazio wrote: »
    Wouldn't the fact that you go through US Border control in DUB or SNN mean you could do just that?

    Yes it would be classed as a US domestic flight.

    I personally believe that he wants to do TA flights but he knows that the brand needs to be improved. He has started that process already but it will take time. At the end of the day they can set up a new airline and call it whatever they want but people will know it is backed by the ryanair. The press will also be waiting on anything to go wrong and make it headline news. I would love to see them go for it as however they do it the other airlines will be looking on a little nervously.


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    #29
    JCX BXC
    Registered Users Posts: 18,114 ✭✭✭✭JCX BXC


    I just spent 2 hours doing calculations on starting a new airline.
    It would have 1 plane and would fly from snn to newark daily.

    After setting up an office and paying all employees, buying a 757 plane and working out a fuel cost, I earned a profit of 4 million.

    Them calculations were made with little experience.


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    #30
    JCX BXC
    Registered Users Posts: 18,114 ✭✭✭✭JCX BXC


    Strumms wrote: »
    Please STFU. I did indeed read previous posts. I dont require your say so to include the content which I have posted to as per above. If you don't like the opinions of others then why solicite responses on an Internet forum... Get a grip. :eek:


    Me get a grip? You were stating it would be pointless to fly out of dub due to competition! FFS they won't be so why comment.

    Some people :confused:


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    #31
    Growler!!!
    Registered Users Posts: 1,980 ✭✭✭Growler!!!


    Carnacalla wrote: »
    I just spent 2 hours doing calculations on starting a new airline.
    It would have 1 plane and would fly from snn to newark daily.

    After setting up an office and paying all employees, buying a 757 plane and working out a fuel cost, I earned a profit of 4 million.

    Them calculations were made with little experience.


    What kind of yields and load factors are you working with?

    Are the crew within duty hours for a daily service, and how many crew are you looking at employing?

    Are you taking CVs?


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