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Minister Shatter and Commissioner Callinan should both resign in disgrace

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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,003 ✭✭✭Busted Flat.


    sopretty wrote: »
    If you read further up, Shady Tady believes that calculated risks are ok. If you're decent. And have a relative dying.

    I wasn't talkin about the dead, you missed my remark, and should be taken light heartedly.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,009 ✭✭✭sopretty


    I wasn't talkin about the dead, you missed my remark, and should be taken light heartedly.

    Aha. I think I get you. I was talking about the car lol.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,062 ✭✭✭Slick50


    Phoebas wrote: »
    The Gardaí who cancelled penalty points weren't breaking any laws (so, under your moral code they must be 'decent').

    If this is true, then Callinan and Shatter were both right? That would also make the GSI report wrong?
    Phoebas wrote: »
    The person who broke the speed limit rushing a dead relative to hospital was breaking a law (so, under your moral code isn't decent).

    There would be no justification for speeding, if the relative is already deceased.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 8,224 ✭✭✭Going Forward


    Shady Tady wrote: »
    Decent people who may actually have been rushing a dying relative to hospital, it does happen, there are genuine cases and indeed decent people who find themselves in this senario

    Most decent people would take it on the chin and pay up without fuss IMO.
    Who is really bothered about getting points having rushed someone to hospital? They will be satisfied that they tried as hard as they could to help the person, and, it's only a couple of points, in the scheme of things, unless they already have 10.

    It's all about the money really, naturally no one wants to pay E80 in this situation but they similarly wouldn't even dream of appealing to Revenue over their obligations should the issue of inheritance tax arise on that persons death either, because it is accepted that there is no room for excuses in Revenue's system.

    Yes it is cold and heartless, but it is what it is: a rule or a law which applies to everyone, regardless of excuses.

    You could write a never ending list of excuses and deserving cases to be exempt from penalty points, from bringing a sick animal to a vet to being late for an exam. It's a bit of slap in the face/unlucky but, rules are rules. They have not been fined a thousand euro and their car is not going to be confiscated and crushed.

    The problem, is that once a way of wiping points became known, it was bound to be abused. And it was, which has lead us to here.


  • Registered Users Posts: 543 ✭✭✭Shady Tady


    Most decent people would take it on the chin and pay up without fuss IMO.
    Who is really bothered about getting points having rushed someone to hospital? They will be satisfied that they tried as hard as they could to help the person, and, it's only a couple of points, in the scheme of things, unless they already have 10.

    It's all about the money really, naturally no one wants to pay E80 in this situation but they similarly wouldn't even dream of appealing to Revenue over their obligations should the issue of inheritance tax arise on that persons death either, because it is accepted that there is no room for excuses in Revenue's system.

    Yes it is cold and heartless, but it is what it is: a rule or a law which applies to everyone, regardless of excuses.

    You could write a never ending list of excuses and deserving cases to be exempt from penalty points, from bringing a sick animal to a vet to being late for an exam. It's a bit of slap in the face/unlucky but, rules are rules. They have not been fined a thousand euro and their car is not going to be confiscated and crushed.

    The problem, is that once a way of wiping points became known, it was bound to be abused. And it was, which has lead us to here.

    Ok, I accept your point, but tell that to Joe Duffy when theystart ringing him and the gardai are portrayed as heartless, you just cannot win, your dammed if you do your dammed if you don't


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  • Registered Users Posts: 12,742 ✭✭✭✭JRant


    Shady Tady wrote: »
    JRant wrote: »
    Well his comments on the WB's actions as disgusting for a start.[/

    1 agree with whistleblowing in the force and feel there is a need for a better way but find it disgusting if for example the whistleblowers handed over confidential garda information from Pulse to say the likes of Sinn Fein as was suggested on the Matt Cooper show recently, that would be disgusting in the eyes of most decent gardai who can remember their collegues being murdered by people that Sinn Fein represented and defended and who failed to condemn the murders for years. That's dishonour, pardon me if I would find that aspect Disgusting, I also wonder how members of the public would like their personal details being downloaded of pulse and passed out to third parties. No one is squeaky clean here!

    From listening to Wilson it appears that the proper channels within AGS all lead to a dead end so he was well within his rights to do what he did. AGS top brass tried to make this go the same way as those penalty points and make it disappear into the ether.

    The Sinn Fein agruement is just another strawman imo. Who are you or the rest of AGS to decided that democratically elected representatives had no right for this to be brought to their attention. If you don't like Sinn Fein then don't vote for them.

    I'm sure most reasonable people would not be to pleased to have details from AGS leaked to a third party. Just ask Mick Wallace or Claire Daly about that one. Some Garda stations seem to have more leaks than a teabag.

    "Well, yeah, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man"



  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 8,224 ✭✭✭Going Forward


    Shady Tady wrote: »
    Ok, I accept your point, but tell that to Joe Duffy when theystart ringing him and the gardai are portrayed as heartless, you just cannot win, your dammed if you do your dammed if you don't

    But at least everyone would be treated equally, without favour.
    There was one gaurd stationed in the next town, of whom it was said " he'd do his own mother", but he was respected, they're not going to be respected for doing favours, they'll be a soft touch.


    I was reared a stone's throw from a garda station, and was always schooled to have respect for them, which I did. We even had a Garda as a next door neighbour for a time.

    Of course they were different times, the number of drug offences could have been counted on one hand, but most ordinary people had great admiration and respect for the Garda.

    (There was not the raft of laws that came in more recent times either, regarding driving, for example, and whether we like it or not, goodwill was I think more reciprocated before the penalty points system and speed vans etc. were introduced.)

    There was also very very little suspicion of Gardai at least that I can recall.

    A couple of younger gaurds arrived over the years, one very decent but naive guy was bullied out of the force.

    I'd hear lads on the street making pig noises as squad cars passed, I'd think those lads were ignorant, still do.

    But over the years you do see things.
    I can post links to newspaper articles showing how certain individuals got off on paperwork technicalities in court on driving offences over garda forms not being filled out correctly, and each one had a brother or relation in the force. These are purely local, within a 10 mile radius- what's it like around the rest of the country?

    The one's driving home from the golf club jarred would be safe enough because of their pals.

    Then others quietly taken out of the force for wrongdoing over various scams, but facing no consequences. Gardai at worst co operating with the abuse scandals cover up, at best turning a blind eye, Donegal etc.

    Then the current penalty point fiasco and phone surveillance.

    I personally feel that many (not all) Gardai have betrayed themselves and their oaths and the public. It just seems so commonplace!

    I hold no malice for Gardai, but unfortunately I do harbour suspicions about many, and they've toppled from the pedestal that I had them on when I was growing up.

    Public trust in Gardai has fallen:
    http://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/public-trust-in-garda-high-despite-controversies-1.1751102

    Something drastic needs to be done to clean up the mess.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,009 ✭✭✭sopretty



    Interesting division of the voters from that link

    "Labour Party voters are the most likely to trust gardaí, closely followed by Fine Gael voters, with Fianna Fáil voters a bit behind. Sinn Féin voters are by far the least likely to trust the Garda, with party supporters almost equally divided on the issue."


  • Registered Users Posts: 19,613 ✭✭✭✭Muahahaha


    More shocking revelations about how a drunk driver with a ton of previous convictions was let go on to kill a man when he should have been locked up for a previous offense but the Gardai failed to inform the judge.

    From broadsheet.ie
    Lucia O’Farrell appeared on TV3′s Tonight With Vincent Browne Show last night to discuss the case of her son Shane who was killed by a hit-and-run driver outside Carrickmacross, Co. Monaghan on August 2, 2011

    The man who struck Shane was Zigimantas Gridzuiska, 39, from Lithuania.

    He was acquitted of dangerous driving causing death and he was given the choice of eight months in jail or to leave Ireland within 21 days. He chose the latter with appalling consequences.

    Later, Senator David Norris said he had contacted Justice Minister Alan Shatter about the case. and was told the family might consider counselling.

    Lucia O’Farrell: “Shane was 23, he returned from college and he was to take part in a triathlon and, after having something to eat, he went out on his bike, a beautiful summer’s evening on the second of August 2011. When he hadn’t returned, Jim, my husband, and I went out and found that he had been killed in a hit and run. He was our only son, our lives had been destroyed but he was tossed on the road and left to die alone on the road in a hit and run. We were told it was a crime scene. They had nobody at the time for it.”

    Vincent Browne: “And you were told that he was carried on the roof of the car for quite a distance?”

    O’Farrell: “That subsequently came out in the court because they found fabrics of this clothing on the roof bonnet and windscreen of the car.”

    Browne: “Right and the person who almost certainly was involved in this was a Lithuanian and he had a track record, prior to then, tell us a bit about that.”

    O’Farrell: “He had come into the country, apparently he was known to Interpol. He was up for convictions for aggravated burglary, theft, road traffic offences, damage to property…”

    Browne: “That was outside the country, before coming here?”

    O’Farrell: “Yes, yes, and then he had 40 convictions in total on the evening of the second of August, when he killed Shane.”

    Browne: “That was in Ireland?”

    O’Farrell: “No, in Lithuania, Northern Ireland and here.”

    Browne: “Right.”

    O’Farrell: “He was well-known to the PSNI, he had served custody in the south of Ireland for heroin, he had a long criminal history, he was on a peace bond, he was on a suspended sentence, north and south of the Border, he was driving a defective vehicle, he was uninsured, he had falsified his documents since coming into the country…”

    Browne: “And wasn’t there an instance where he was given a suspended sentence, subject to good behaviour, and then he was convicted of another offence and the judge in the second case was unaware of what had happened previously. The gardai failed to tell them.”

    O’Farrell: “Well the reason Shane is dead is because of total Garda failure. In January 2011, seven months before Shane was killed, this man had received a ten-month sentence and it was adjourned for a year in the Circuit Court, for him to be of good behaviour with permission to bring him back at any stage if he reoffended, but four months after that decision in the Circuit Court, and I saw that order, he was up for five consecutive days of theft in another court room and the judge was unaware that he was to be brought back and gave him a four-month suspended sentence. The guards should have brought him back when he reoffended. So he now, in May, got a four-month suspended sentence and went on to kill our son. He legally shouldn’t have been on the road.”

    Browne: “Right. And subsequent to the killing of your son there were further bizarre…”

    O’Farrell: “Yes there were plenty of opportunities for the guards to prevent this happening. On the 6th of July, three weeks before he killed Shane, this car was killed up by the Drugs Squad, he was well known to them and he was found with a substance and charred tinfoil. Apparently this man snorted his heroin. He would put a lighter under the tinfoil and he snorted his heroin and instead of confiscating or seizing the car and preventing him driving this man was allowed continue to drive and hold a driving licence, which a person snorting heroin behind the steering wheel of a car is not conducive, because side effects of heroin…”

    Browne: “OK, and in the hours before the incident, resulting in the death of your son, the gardaí were also involved?”

    O’Farrell: “He was pulled up again an hour before he killed our son because the number was known to the Drugs Squad. He was found with two other Lithuanian heroin addicts, the driver was uninsured, they took them out and searched them, this car had no NCT certificate, it was driven by an uninsured driver and they were waved on. Within an hour our son was dead.”

    Browne: “Subsequent to the death of your son, there were further bizarre twists to the story?”

    O’Farrell: “Following killing Shane?”

    Browne: “Yes.”

    O’Farrell: “Yes, well when this man killed Shane, he never touched the brakes, he fled the scene, he concealed the car in bushes five kilometres away, he returned to his Lithuanian wife and informed her, this is signed on oath, ‘I’m after knocking someone down, I don’t know who’. And they both went to bed. Nobody called an ambulance because, if she had called an ambulance he would have been tested within three hours for drugs and alcohol and there’s a three-hour window there so she went to bed, no charges were ever brought for her, for failing to call an ambulance, withholding information. If we lived in Northern Ireland that is 18 hours but we only have three here. While we’re preparing a funeral for our only son, this man there’s a special sitting in Dundalk Court and, at that sitting, the guards fail to ask for the suspended sentence to be activated, he was on a four-month suspended sentence three months earlier?”

    Browne: “This is because he was charged again in connection with incident involving the death of your son?”

    O’Farrell: “He..this was two days following the killing of our son. There was a special sitting in Dundalk Court..”

    Browne: “Was this related to that issue or to another issue?”

    O’Farrell: “No, to killing my son. He was taken to a special sitting in Dundalk Court and, at that court sitting, the guards failed to ask for the suspended sentence he was on three months earlier in May, he got this four-month suspended sentence, they failed to ask to have that activated. I mean what do you have to do to get a suspended sentence activated? He was after killing surely they would say we would want to get this sentence activated. They failed to bring that to the judge’s attention. And they also failed to object to bail, he was after killing and bail should have been objected to. So they didn’t do that. So this man was out and about but two weeks after killing Shane, he’s caught with heroin again, a month after killing Shane he’s driving around again uninsured, no tax and six weeks after killing Shane, he’s supposed to sign on. The judge said, this is as the gardaí are preparing a big file for the DPP, this man is ordered by the court, when he killed Shane, was to sign on in the garda station three times a week on bail of €500. Six weeks after killing Shane, while on bail for killing him, this man is arrested in Craigavon [Co. Armagh] and spends two weeks in custody there and nobody notices when he fails to turn up at a garda station and sign on for two weeks. In fact that only came to light a year later when the family requested an Interpol check and I had a conversation with the Constable, I said ‘Constable that’s impossible you had him for two weeks” and he said “Ms O’Farrell, why are you so sure?”, I said: “He was signing on in the garda station, he killed my son, he was signing on three times a week, he said: ‘well I’m sorry to disappoint you but we had him here for two weeks”. And so I was wrong, Vincent. We asked the DPP later, before it had gone to court, to object to him getting bail again, in view, on grounds that he had left the jurisdiction which is very serious and no-one had noticed and he was coming back to the same garda station that failed to monitor him but they refused. To highlight this to the judge would be to show that the guards had failed in their duty.”

    Browne: “He was never convicted of dangerous driving causing death, he was convicted of merely of leaving the scene of an accident.”

    O’Farrell: “The summary offences, yes – failing to remain at the scene, failing to call the services and failing to keep his vehicle at the scene and driving a defective vehicle.”

    Browne: “How do you feel about the Garda conduct in relation to this whole affair?”

    O’Farrell: “My son is dead because of them. We’ve irrefutable evidence to that. We wouldn’t be having this conversation now. There was gross misconduct and corruption and following it to mop up, to cover up.”

    Later, Senator David Norris tells how he contacted Justice Minister Alan Shatter about the Shane O’Farrell case.

    David Norris: “I actually wrote, with all the information that we had, to Alan Shatter, and he deflected it. He said he had no responsibility, that meant I couldn’t…. it was quite a nice letter but, he said he had no ministerial responsibilty there, which meant I couldn’t raise it as an adjournment matter and he suggested that they get counselling. Now I think think that’s not an adequate… in the light of what we have had told to us this evening – most of which would have gone to Alan Shatter’s office – now he may not have dealt with it personally, I have no vendetta against Alan Shatter, but I think that was lamentable – and that’s why it’s necessary to have a public inquiry.”




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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,009 ✭✭✭sopretty


    Are these guards thick or what? Do they not have access to every detail on Pulse? Can they not just pull that info off Pulse and print it off ahead of each court appearance?


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,890 ✭✭✭tomdempsey200


    sopretty wrote: »
    Are these guards thick or what? Do they not have access to every detail on Pulse? Can they not just pull that info off Pulse and print it off ahead of each court appearance?

    sure weren't the top brass in the gards directly contributing to road deaths by wiping points


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,548 ✭✭✭✭aloyisious


    I regret to say that, amongst the thousands of Gardai who are quite prepared to dive into a river or enter a blazing house to save another person they don't personally know, there are a few who don't match up to the profile of all the others and who lead Joe Bloggs to imagine those few are representative of all Gardai. I mentioned those two scenarios as examples of (I suspect) how we would expect Gardai (merely because they are in uniform) untrained in rescue from river-drowning or practical fire-scene rescue methods to go into action (don't just stand there, do something) where few else would dare to go. Some members just don't care about how their actions disappoint and anger their fellow Gardai and the public.


  • Registered Users Posts: 15,127 ✭✭✭✭kerry4sam


    Have a read of this from the Irish Times.
    Senior gardaí believe careful Government planning went into the departure of Martin Callinan from the office of Garda Commissioner.

    For the majority of my life I had nothing but the utmost of respect for An Garda Síochána until I joined! Who would one go to when they don't have any trust or faith in the very organisation responsible for Achieving the hghest attainable level of Personal Protection, Community Commitment and State Security?! Dis-heartening to say the very least.

    Now, we have each to their own fighting their own corner, and public trust in all being diminished by each passing week.

    We even have the French Elite flying over to collect more evidence (see here). So what do this foreign police force think of our very own Policing Body An Garda Síochána and what evidence they say they have -v- what they have had.

    Oh if someone had a time capsule to fast forward as to where this will all end, that'd be great! Until such time, the public are left between a rock and a hard-place with who to turn to and trust!

    My eyes were forced open for me as a member who only joined to volunteer in the community and assist where I could. Now, I just cannot trust our Policing Body & it just sickens me that they cannot be trusted.

    Where will this actually end,
    kerry4sam


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,670 ✭✭✭renegademaster


    kerry4sam wrote: »
    Have a read of this from the Irish Times.



    For the majority of my life I had nothing but the utmost of respect for An Garda Síochána until I joined! Who would one go to when they don't have any trust or faith in the very organisation responsible for Achieving the hghest attainable level of Personal Protection, Community Commitment and State Security?! Dis-heartening to say the very least.

    Now, we have each to their own fighting their own corner, and public trust in all being diminished by each passing week.

    We even have the French Elite flying over to collect more evidence (see here). So what do this foreign police force think of our very own Policing Body An Garda Síochána and what evidence they say they have -v- what they have had.

    Oh if someone had a time capsule to fast forward as to where this will all end, that'd be great! Until such time, the public are left between a rock and a hard-place with who to turn to and trust!

    My eyes were forced open for me as a member who only joined to volunteer in the community and assist where I could. Now, I just cannot trust our Policing Body & it just sickens me that they cannot be trusted.

    Where will this actually end,
    kerry4sam

    this is what many people have been asking and it's the reason why some of us gets fierce upset when the majority seem to not give a damn, or even realise it's one of the most important questions we need to be asking right now.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,728 ✭✭✭rodento


    Fine Gael TD John Deasy on Shatter

    "It is fair to say we now understand that if a bomb went off in the Department of Justice, some people wouldn't know about it for a couple of years."

    http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/rebel-td-slams-chaotic-shatter-30161298.html


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,742 ✭✭✭✭JRant


    aloyisious wrote: »
    I regret to say that, amongst the thousands of Gardai who are quite prepared to dive into a river or enter a blazing house to save another person they don't personally know, there are a few who don't match up to the profile of all the others and who lead Joe Bloggs to imagine those few are representative of all Gardai. I mentioned those two scenarios as examples of (I suspect) how we would expect Gardai (merely because they are in uniform) untrained in rescue from river-drowning or practical fire-scene rescue methods to go into action (don't just stand there, do something) where few else would dare to go. Some members just don't care about how their actions disappoint and anger their fellow Gardai and the public.

    I regret to say, that amongst the thousands of Garda only 2 had the bravery to stand up to a corrupt system. Doesn't say a whole lot about the rest of them when they stand back and let 2 fellow Garda be bullied and harassed because they had the temerity to uphold the law.

    This is exactly what AGS are like, the biggest bunch of mé feiners around.

    "Well, yeah, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man"



  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,670 ✭✭✭renegademaster


    JRant wrote: »
    I regret to say, that amongst the thousands of Garda only 2 had the bravery to stand up to a corrupt system. Doesn't say a whole lot about the rest of them when they stand back and let 2 fellow Garda be bullied and harassed because they had the temerity to uphold the law.

    This is exactly what AGS are like, the biggest bunch of mé feiners around.

    until more step up to expose the rot, you are correct and right


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,797 ✭✭✭✭hatrickpatrick


    Courage is contagious. Where one whistleblower emerges, more are likely to follow - as evidenced for example by the leaks from the US military industrial complext over the last number of years (Binney, Manning, Snowden, Drake, Klein) - hopefully the same pattern will be repeated here.


  • Registered Users Posts: 51,509 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    JRant wrote: »
    I regret to say, that amongst the thousands of Garda only 2 had the bravery to stand up to a corrupt system. Doesn't say a whole lot about the rest of them when they stand back and let 2 fellow Garda be bullied and harassed because they had the temerity to uphold the law.

    This is exactly what AGS are like, the biggest bunch of mé feiners around.

    Those two men reported on the penalty points issue I believe.
    The Garda in general didn't seem to know that the penalty points they issued were being cancelled by senior people in their ranks.
    I think you are being deliberately harsh on the garda who in general do a good job.
    The problem as I see it is the political interference and puppeteering of the very senior ranks.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,890 ✭✭✭tomdempsey200


    yes the rot is at the very top

    for god's sake people...

    the commissioner went on tv and said they were disgusting!!

    and that quare one that's taken over looks to be a chip off the same block


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 8,224 ✭✭✭Going Forward


    kerry4sam wrote: »
    Have a read of this from the Irish Times.



    For the majority of my life I had nothing but the utmost of respect for An Garda Síochána until I joined! Who would one go to when they don't have any trust or faith in the very organisation responsible for Achieving the hghest attainable level of Personal Protection, Community Commitment and State Security?! Dis-heartening to say the very least.

    Now, we have each to their own fighting their own corner, and public trust in all being diminished by each passing week.

    We even have the French Elite flying over to collect more evidence (see here). So what do this foreign police force think of our very own Policing Body An Garda Síochána and what evidence they say they have -v- what they have had.

    Oh if someone had a time capsule to fast forward as to where this will all end, that'd be great! Until such time, the public are left between a rock and a hard-place with who to turn to and trust!

    My eyes were forced open for me as a member who only joined to volunteer in the community and assist where I could. Now, I just cannot trust our Policing Body & it just sickens me that they cannot be trusted.

    Where will this actually end,
    kerry4sam

    That's some indictment.

    Were you surprised by the treatment the WB's got?

    Do rank and file feel a need to make a better force, or is there indifference?


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,742 ✭✭✭✭JRant


    Those two men reported on the penalty points issue I believe.
    The Garda in general didn't seem to know that the penalty points they issued were being cancelled by senior people in their ranks.
    I think you are being deliberately harsh on the garda who in general do a good job.
    The problem as I see it is the political interference and puppeteering of the very senior ranks.

    I don't think i'm being deliberately harsh on the Garda at all. They're all part of the same game, keep your mouth shut, look after your pals and promotions a cert. open your mouth on anything and you can expect to have rats nailed to your door, physically assaulted and hounded out of the force.

    The problem as i see it is that they've been a law onto themselves for far to long and have had no oversight whatsoever. Give GSOC some real teeth to go after the corruption instead of all these stupid inquiries that never lead to anything.

    "Well, yeah, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man"



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 14,380 ✭✭✭✭Banjo String




  • Registered Users Posts: 543 ✭✭✭Shady Tady


    JRant wrote: »
    Ah yes, another sterling contribution.

    LOL


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,548 ✭✭✭✭aloyisious


    Quip: Alan is a Defence Minister with a diifference, one whom provides the DF Ordnance Corp and COE IED teams plenty of material to practice their skills on.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,890 ✭✭✭tomdempsey200



    why are these events being publicized

    surely it's only encouraging copycats


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,670 ✭✭✭renegademaster


    why are these events being publicized

    surely it's only encouraging copycats

    tis a win win situation for our corrupt government, distraction is the order of the day!!


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,742 ✭✭✭✭JRant


    Shady Tady wrote: »
    LOL

    Those type of posts are not exactly contributing to the discussion now are they.

    "Well, yeah, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man"



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  • Registered Users Posts: 17,797 ✭✭✭✭hatrickpatrick


    JRant wrote: »
    I don't think i'm being deliberately harsh on the Garda at all. They're all part of the same game, keep your mouth shut, look after your pals and promotions a cert. open your mouth on anything and you can expect to have rats nailed to your door, physically assaulted and hounded out of the force.

    As I've said before, courage is contagious - it's always the hardest for the first whistleblowers as they have no examples to follow and are sailing completely into the unknown - now that whistleblowers have come forward and finally been vindicated, it's my belief that more will surely follow.
    The problem as i see it is that they've been a law onto themselves for far to long and have had no oversight whatsoever. Give GSOC some real teeth to go after the corruption instead of all these stupid inquiries that never lead to anything.

    Agreed. The idea that the police ombudsman cannot investigate the chief is ridiculous, as is the idea that they can't open an investigation to look for evidence of something unless they already have concrete evidence (bugging of their offices and the gov't / Garda response), as is the idea that they be expected to involve the DOJ in everything when it's quite clear that the DOJ's trustworthiness and closeness to the commissioner / force in general is up for debate.

    GSOC needs to be made fully independent and allowed to do full investigations without its motives being questioned. Almost two months later I'm still absolutely astounded that they were subject to such a vicious assault for discovering evidence of a very, very serious potential crime being committed against them and for not informing those who in any reasonable person's mind might have either been involved in the bugging, or tipped off those who were involved.

    GSOC cannot possibly be expected to function under such conditions.


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