Martin : FF no longer toxic brand

He's probably right but that says more about Irish politics than it does about him and ff.

All Irish politics is toxic for sure as a previous poster has noted. The self serving corruption and risk taking that arose during the Ahern years was inevitable the way things were going.

Fianna Fail arguably did more to facilitate the marriage of politics to big business and borrowing/credit/lending culture but the same policies existed for years and were adopted by several parties.

As regards choice of who to vote for, there appears very little. The choices are:

1. Fianna Fail: dominated by big business and developer interests in the past, the party has marketed itself as going back to its roots as one on the side of the small farmer and small business. However, they have no intention ever to upset the current elitist status quo and are not in any way going to radically reform anything. They follow a moderate foreign policy and encourage Ireland as an open, ready for business state.
2. Fine Gael: by and large, the same as Fianna Fail without the corruption the likes of Bertie and Haughey brought to Fianna Fail. In the past, they were seen as more on the side of the rich than the poor (however, Bertie and Haughey proved this was very true of Fianna Fail too).
3. Labour: Another party largely similar to FF & FG, who were always its two choices of coalition parties! Meant to be on the side of workers, in reality Labour look after the vested interests of the elite like the rest.
4. Sinn Fein: Of course, we automatically think of the IRA and of a party on the side of the downtrodden against big business, the British and elitism. Sinn Fein in power would be a different prospect (for an idea of what it would be like, think Northern Ireland). They would essentially become Fianna Fail, moderate its foreign policy and sink into the usual role of protecting the elite.
5. Independents: these are normally ex Fianna Failers for the most part and jump on a bandwagon to get elected be it turf, pylons, radiotherapy, Shell to Sea, people before profit, incinerators, etc, etc.

Stark wrote: »

A) Sinn Féin leadership is still tainted by their IRA connections.
They live in a land of fantasy economics. While I appreciate they do good work in a lot of communities that other parties won't touch, they make an awful lot of promises that they can only afford to make because they're not in power and don't have to make good on them. An awful lot like FF, especially Martin's FF in that regard.

That is very true. Overall, SF are very like FF in many ways. The opposition politician promising a fairer state if they get into power can be taken with a grain of salt: once in power, they continue on as the last government did. There is no reason to believe SF are any different.

SF will recruit a lot of respectable people into its ranks with the likes of Chris Andrews already in there to attract ex-FF voters who still don't want to vote for FF. SF will market itself as a major rival to FF as a moderate republican party (with the dissidents catering for more hardline republicanism and FG more in line with the 'free state' legacy).

raymon wrote: »

In an attempt to shore up internal support for himself , Martin has declared Fianna Fail to be detoxified

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/martin-ff-no-longer-a-toxic-brand-253622.html

Is he correct ? Is all forgiven ?

When I think of Fianna Fail the first things that come into my head are bankrupting of the economy, surrender of our soverignty, corruption, forgery, arrogance, dishonesty, money resting in accounts, telling lies under oath , etc etc.

Still looks toxic to me

What springs to your mind, when you think of F.G.

grainnewhale wrote: »

you remind me of enda, Inability to debate, never answer even the simplest of questions, instead try and divert attention for your failings by criticising others and in your denial of being a f.g supporter an inability to lie straight in bed.

Eh hold on, is that not exactly what you just did?
A debate starts about Fianna Fail and you instead try to divert attention to Fine Gael?

Kensington wrote: »

Eh hold on, is that not exactly what you just did?
A debate starts about Fianna Fail and you instead try to divert attention to Fine Gael?

I was simply looking for the o.p to come clean about his allegiance to f.g. In the fairness of having an open and honest debate. If I was a supporter of .f.f and trying to put a case forward as to why somebody should support them over f.g., it would be nice to know that the o.p was a lifelong f.g supporter and would support them in any circumstances.
Being a f.g supporter I would expect him to be interested in openess and transperancy .