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Dublin Metrolink (just Metrolink posts here -see post #1 )
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It's the right one because of the limited funding and because it should have been built (regardless of route chosen) at the time of the original Luas construction.Let's be honest here - the only reason BXD is going ahead is that the politicians needed to be seen to get one "big ticket" transport project under way - that doesn't necessarily mean it's the right one.
You have not said BXD should now be re-routed, but you do seem to be opposed to rerouting buses -- so, I'm not sure what you want.Point to where I said BXD should now be re-routed - I may be many things, but I am a realist - the project is under construction. I'm resigned to the thing being built, but it doesn't mean that I am still very frustrated about the way existing bus users were not adequately considered in the business case, and how they are now going to be affected.
Lots of people go to places like Dame Street and College Green so they can walk elsewhere. Just the same way as Suffolk Street bus stop users walk there because is a key stop on many routes, but other stops can be established as such.We're not just talking about any bus stops being affected here, we are talking about some of the busiest stops on the entire network - College Street, Grafton Street, Nassau Street, and Suffolk Street. This is where people wish to travel to and from and for a significantly greater number of people that will use the LUAS, they will not be able to do so anymore.
Suffolk Street is a mess. It and Church Lane are an accident waiting to happen and so congested with buses that it's ineffective for buses.
As I said, my preference was that Luas would go around.Even your choice of words "pushing buses around there" is an implied suggestion that they are being forced out to the "next best solution", despite the fact that they carry more people than the LUAS will.
A key challenge is buy in, from Dublin Bus and its supports, to the idea of going around. Not a focus on what should have happened.As for your idea re Westland Row - while the NTA discussion document might have had it - it still would have to get past DCC, whose track record on implementing public transport priority measures is not exactly one painted in glory - viz. how long it took to get them to address the city centre traffic issues, the pandering to business re the College Green bus gate hours, the retention for years of the parking spaces on the south side of St Stephen's Green North (making access to bus stops difficult).
Unless DCC's attitude changes significantly (which would be surprising given they do not want to give up car parking revenue), I don't see it happening.
Instead, I honestly do believe that bus users will face longer journeys as a result of this.
Without that buy in, it's hardener for the councilor stop know the importance.
I'm calculating it from the start point to the end point of any diversions.I'm not sure how you are calculating your distances, but Dawson Street to Westmoreland Street via Suffolk Street is 500m. The route via Westland Row is 1.5km - a kilometre more.
No diverted bus will be using Dawson as there will be a no right turn ban at the northern end of the street.
Going around TCD will be seen as and advantage to those who's trips are not in the core -- those who want to skip the city centre, those working in the Docklands or just east of Killdare Street and those who want to connect with a train or Dart.
Agreed.It is utterly ludicrous that in designing a scheme like this, that the detailed effects of it on bus users was not required to be analysed, planned and explained clearly. Instead it is almost an afterthought - we still don't know what they are going to be.
If that was the case those who used Nassau Street would just have to walk around the corner to College Green.If, for example, the 14 and 15/15a/15b end up being re-routed via Camden Street and Georges Street, then significant groups of people who currently board in Nassau Street, Kildare Street, St Stephen's Green and Earlsfort Terrace will have a not insignificant walk that they did not have before.
St Stephen's Green isn't far from the Camden Street - Georges Street corridor.
Earlsfort Terrace isn't that far from Camden Street.
It's not really a matter for the BXD business case, more so the planning system.It's the lack of any proper public consideration of all of this in the planning process, in the assessment of the business case, coupled with the lack of any significant improvement in journey times, that really does lead me to the conclusion that this was primarily a political decision rather than one that has the best interests of the majority of public transport users in this city at it's core. Metro North clearly did deliver real improvements to a far greater number of people.
On one hand ABP were concerned with widening footpath, but it's not to clear that they were much about concerned about bus routes or cyclists or taxis.
Buses don't have to go down College Green to serve it.Until all of the powers that be in infrastructure planning start showing some realistic attitudes towards public transport development, meaning proper bus priority measures and not shifting buses away from the core city centre market (which will only make buses less attractive), then I really despair at where we are going.
The NTA's BRT would seem like a good start.Where specifically do you feel frequency is insufficient to meet demand levels?
Capturing the higher end of potential demand for public transport is not really something Dublin Bus is able to do for a long list of reasons. Topping that list is likely because DB is such a damaged brand.0 -
It's the right one because of the limited funding and because it should have been built (regardless of route chosen) at the time of the original Luas construction.
You have not said BXD should now be re-routed, but you do seem to be opposed to rerouting buses -- so, I'm not sure what you want.
What I am exceptionally frustrated about is that:
1) No proper consideration was (and still has not been) given to the negative impact on the greater number of bus passengers that this project has.
2) No recognition that more people will be negatively impacted by this project than will actually benefit - the numbers of bus users affected by this will be far greater than the numbers that the LUAS BXD will ever be able to carry
It is a shocking indictment of the whole process of assessing whether this project was the right thing to do that this has not taken place.
Right now I would like to see those plans published in public and explained to everyone, as I think an awful lot of people do not yet realise how much this will affect them.Lots of people go to places like Dame Street and College Green so they can walk elsewhere. Just the same way as Suffolk Street bus stop users walk there because is a key stop on many routes, but other stops can be established as such.
Suffolk Street is a mess. It and Church Lane are an accident waiting to happen and so congested with buses that it's ineffective for buses.
That's like saying, "tough luck - nothing we can do". That is in my view unacceptable.A key challenge is buy in, from Dublin Bus and its supports, to the idea of going around. Not a focus on what should have happened.
Without that buy in, it's hardener for the councilor stop know the importance.
Why would you expect Dublin Bus to be remotely enthusiastic about their services having extended journey times and key stops being removed? This has bigger ramifications as it may mean additional running time is needed which may mean more buses are required to maintain the service levels.I'm calculating it from the start point to the end point of any diversions.
No diverted bus will be using Dawson as there will be a no right turn ban at the northern end of the street.
Can you point me to where that there is any indication of that (post-construction) please?Going around TCD will be seen as and advantage to those who's trips are not in the core -- those who want to skip the city centre, those working in the Docklands or just east of Killdare Street and those who want to connect with a train or Dart.
So we should design public transport to benefit a minority of people? I somehow doubt that the numbers of people going to those locations come even close to those using the key city centre stops.If that was the case those who used Nassau Street would just have to walk around the corner to College Green.
St Stephen's Green isn't far from the Camden Street - Georges Street corridor.
Earlsfort Terrace isn't that far from Camden Street.
Now you really are pushing things - it's a good extra 10 minutes walk from St Stephen's Green East or Earlsfort Terrace to Camden Street. Why was this not assessed as a cost? Again, you appear to be taking the line "oh well, your luck out". That is frankly a crazy approach to this.
Not forgetting that that route is already much slower than the existing route via Nassau St, Kildare St and Earlsfort Terrace for through passengers.It's not really a matter for the BXD business case, more so the planning system.
On one hand ABP were concerned with widening footpath, but it's not to clear that they were much about concerned about bus routes or cyclists or taxis.
If you are seriously trying to suggest that a business case for a project such as this, should not incorporate a detailed assessment of the negative impact on much larger volumes of people than the LUAS will ever carry, then I think you are living in cloud cuckoo land. This is a fundamental cost and nowhere in that document was it properly assessed.Buses don't have to go down College Green to serve it.
Again I go back to the point - the negative impact was not properly assessed.The NTA's BRT would seem like a good start.
Capturing the higher end of potential demand for public transport is not really something Dublin Bus is able to do for a long list of reasons. Topping that list is likely because DB is such a damaged brand.
Well that's your opinion - but I think your personal bias against the company is becoming a bit clearer now, and I don't think that it is necessarily correct.
There have been significant improvements in the bus service in the last three years through Network Direct and the AVLC/RTPI rollout, both of which need to be followed up on now.
I have to say that I find your attitude that "well they should be pushed away" or "they should walk further" rather condescending - it's like almost saying that the LUAS passengers (although fewer in number) are more important than the bus passengers.
It's that attitude that pervades many transport idealists that frankly stinks to high heaven, as it fails to recognise the massive contribution that our bus network makes to keeping this city moving.
The BRT route from Blanchardstown (for example) would require anyone going to O'Connell Street to either have a much longer walk or get another bus or tram. Is that an improvement as well? I don't believe it is.
It seems to me that unfortunately the RPA seem to be ploughing ahead with all these wonderful ideas, but without any clear analysis of the cost and impact on other transport users - that to my mind is fundamentally wrong.0 -
Will reply later in detail but what exactly is the alternative to having strong bus priority around TCD?0
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In an ideal world?Will reply later in detail but what exactly is the alternative to having strong bus priority around TCD?
Pedestrianised College Green with sub surface Luas tunnel connecting Green Line to Metro North (initially) and Broadstone with trams running to Finglas via Broombridge.
If you mean with no effort made to deliver decent segregation for light rail in the core of the network then long term the private car should at least be restricted around college green. To a pedestrian however smoking hulks of double deckers are no better (if not worse) than cars. Buses are noisier all round, there are just fewer of them.
The bus is a fantastic thing, but Dublin is far too reliant on the bus due to a lack of investment in proper rail based alternatives and a lack of courage to go underground when it's been proven (50 years ago) that it's the right thing to do.
Even Palma de Mallorca has a sodding metro and went underground to get it in as far as the core of the city. There simply is no excuse for not having already gone underground in some shape or form. Dublin clay isn't even difficult to bore through.0 -
Will reply later in detail but what exactly is the alternative to having strong bus priority around TCD?
Ultimately at this stage nothing to be honest. But that is a battle that should have been fought before this project got the green light.
But it would be nice if the people planning this actually acknowledged that a very significant number of people would be inconvenienced by this.
It would also be nice if you actually recognised this for once rather than blandly effectively saying "well tough that's their lot" and focusing on the much smaller number of people that may gain from their buses being diverted.
Don't get me wrong - the LUAS green line is great as it is fast due to the segregation. Would I use the Red Line over the bus? It would depend on the journey. When working in Tallaght I always found the bus faster to the Central Bank for example, and with RTPI it made planning a trip much easier.0 -
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Also another thing that Dublin bus could look at is to try and operate in tandem with Luas and Dart systems more efficiently.
As time goes by and the city centre becomes more congested, it could be a good idea to have bus services feeding into these public transport services from the suburbs.
For example a bus servicing the greater Blanchardstown area to feed into the Maynooth line,
A bus service from Lucan and Clondalkin to the Hazelhatch line,
Terenure/Rathfarnham into the Luas green line etc.0 -
metrostation wrote: »Also another thing that Dublin bus could look at is to try and operate in tandem with Luas and Dart systems more efficiently.
As time goes by and the city centre becomes more congested, it could be a good idea to have bus services feeding into these public transport services from the suburbs.
For example a bus servicing the greater Blanchardstown area to feed into the Maynooth line,
A bus service from Lucan and Clondalkin to the Hazelhatch line,
Terenure/Rathfarnham into the Luas green line etc.
Well for the latter, the 17 and 61 already do that job (the stop is at the far side of the LUAS bridge in Dundrum), and the 14 also links it with Ballinteer.0 -
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Talk of the viability of transfers in Dublin is meaningless until public transport here moves from distance-based fares to time-based fares.
This is and always has been the most significant impediment to a city-unifying public transport system. Elephant in the room.0 -
NiallSparky wrote: »Yep. It's essentially pointless though without free or even heavily discounted transfers on LEAP.Talk of the viability of transfers in Dublin is meaningless until public transport here moves from distance-based fares to time-based fares.
This is and always has been the most significant impediment to a city-unifying public transport system. Elephant in the room.
For occasional travellers I agree, but there are bus/LUAS period passes available for regular commuters.
I sometimes take the bus to town or v.v., and other days use the bus/LUAS combination which that ticket gives me the freedom to do.0 -
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Cologne (much bigger river - that floods), not unlike Dublin, has an issue with the river. You have to either go surface or deep, not shallow.I have never been to those cities but it seems the problem is that Cologne and Stuttgart trams have a stronger need to be underground because of their large road networks on the ground in their city centers.
I'm not dismissing the usefulness of some cut and cover, we're just heading more towards the models adapted by other cities where more limited space on streets and urban roads is given over to walking, cycling and public transport.
While Cologne has a very complicated inner city street network (property ownership issues after the war prevented changes), most of those streets are traffic calmed or pedestrianised.
In the Altstadt and Belgisches Viertel - that is the whole area inside the ring railway - there is only a handful of heavily trafficked routes.0 -
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Talk of the viability of transfers in Dublin is meaningless until public transport here moves from distance-based fares to time-based fares.
Not necessarily, Amsterdam has a superb distance/time hybrid ticketing system.
You get charged 80c when you get on the bus, then you get charged 14c * per km for the distance you travel.
If you get off one bus and on another bus/tram/metro within 30 minutes, you aren't charged the 80c again, just continue to be charged the 14c per km fee.
This setup is made possible by their version of Leap and tag-on/tag-off at every bus/tram/metro.
* The per km fee can be different depending on bus/tram/metro and even time of day (e.g. higher rate at night).
Seems like an ideal system for Ireland.0 -
lxflyer - What you seem to be missing is that BXD will have a wider effect than just public transport and that, on balance, more people will be better off. Reinforced by the orders of ABP, the result of the BXD should be to overall improve the public realm -- from wider footpaths, more pedestrianised areas, to a traffic calming effect across some of the core city centre and high density residential areas.
Purely on public transport –The point is we’re heading towards a Luas line plus an amount of bus route on College Green; and a new bus route around TCD. That’s a clear-cut net benefit to the city.But it would be nice if the people planning this actually acknowledged that a very significant number of people would be inconvenienced by this.
It would also be nice if you actually recognised this for once rather than blandly effectively saying "well tough that's their lot" and focusing on the much smaller number of people that may gain from their buses being diverted.
Sure a significant number of people would be inconvenienced, but others will be better off.
How are you calculating that there will be a "much smaller number of people that may gain" from a route going around TCD? Any routes going around TCD will closer serve:
Businesses, government buildings and museums on Kildare Street
Businesses around Merrion Square
Holles Street
Parts of TCD
Connections with Dart, Commuter and intercity rail services
Residential and businesses from Tara St into the south Docklands
I might just about be able to buy ‘marginally smaller’ or ‘a little smaller’, but not much smaller by any means.
Also: The routes will still serve the city centre (College Green and Dame Street are just a small section of it).What I am exceptionally frustrated about is that:
1) No proper consideration was (and still has not been) given to the negative impact on the greater number of bus passengers that this project has.
...Right now I would like to see those plans published in public and explained to everyone, as I think an awful lot of people do not yet realise how much this will affect them.
As already discussed, it's not true that there is no proper consideration, it has just yet to be made public, expect what the Irish Times covered.
I agree with your frustration on this and I am in the process of using AIE to try to get DCC and/or the NTA to release the NTA draft plan.
The NTA are using the draft nature of the plan as a reason not to release it and I'm waiting to hear from DCC. The NTA says the plan should be released in any case early in 2014.2) No recognition that more people will be negatively impacted by this project than will actually benefit - the numbers of bus users affected by this will be far greater than the numbers that the LUAS BXD will ever be able to carry
See my opening point above.That's like saying, "tough luck - nothing we can do". That is in my view unacceptable.
I’m clearly not saying “nothing we can do” – I’m saying the opposite! That there’s something to do and Dublin Bus and its supporters should get behind that way…Why would you expect Dublin Bus to be remotely enthusiastic about their services having extended journey times and key stops being removed? This has bigger ramifications as it may mean additional running time is needed which may mean more buses are required to maintain the service levels.
Because if they don’t get behind the idea of a high quality bus route around TCD it will mean additional running time and additional costs. Not only getting behind, but pushing the idea of a high quality route around TCD is the best way to limit the impacts and to make it so the difference is negligible.Can you point me to where that there is any indication of that (post-construction) please?
http://www.dublinluasbroombridge.ieSo we should design public transport to benefit a minority of people? I somehow doubt that the numbers of people going to those locations come even close to those using the key city centre stops.
The routes will still serve the city centre.If you are seriously trying to suggest that a business case for a project such as this, should not incorporate a detailed assessment of the negative impact on much larger volumes of people than the LUAS will ever carry, then I think you are living in cloud cuckoo land. This is a fundamental cost and nowhere in that document was it properly assessed.
I’m suggesting the oversight should be in the planning system.Well that's your opinion - but I think your personal bias against the company is becoming a bit clearer now, and I don't think that it is necessarily correct.
There have been significant improvements in the bus service in the last three years through Network Direct and the AVLC/RTPI rollout, both of which need to be followed up on now.
My “personal bias” is an echo of the views held by many current and former Dublin Bus users. By my personal view is that people interested in providing high quality transport should not get too attached to one company and my interest is in the effective movement of people, not keeping a company with a damaged brand which has gone beyond saving.
As for ‘significant improvements’ nothing compared to even BRT lite.I have to say that I find your attitude that "well they should be pushed away" or "they should walk further" rather condescending - it's like almost saying that the LUAS passengers (although fewer in number) are more important than the bus passengers.
Your attitude to this has the air about it that there’s some other way – that BXD is going to be rerouted or that both Luas and all the current buses can share College Green (when currently there’s too many buses there even without Luas!).The BRT route from Blanchardstown (for example) would require anyone going to O'Connell Street to either have a much longer walk or get another bus or tram. Is that an improvement as well? I don't believe it is.
Yes, it is an improvement.
Unlike Dublin Bus, more reliable high-frequency and capacity public transport works as a network. Switching to another BRT route or Luas is not the same as getting another bus.
All routes should not be clogging up one corridor and the network should be serving the high density inner city better. But that’s a problem with Dublin Bus – nothing can be changed which might change things for Mary or John who have always used the bus.Cologne (much bigger river - that floods), not unlike Dublin, has an issue with the river. You have to either go surface or deep, not shallow.
While Cologne has a very complicated inner city street network (property ownership issues after the war prevented changes), most of those streets are traffic calmed or pedestrianised.
In the Altstadt and Belgisches Viertel - that is the whole area inside the ring railway - there is only a handful of heavily trafficked routes.
In fairness, there's a fairly notable grid of large, wide, multi-lane roads within the railway ring: 51, 55, L111, Tunisstraße, Tel-Aviv-Staße, Turiner Straße, Magusstraße etc.
Not at all comparable to Dublin with an overall a far narrower and disjointed large road network with many pinch points and loads of areas with very little permeability of large road (and often little permeability for any mode inside these blocks of areas).0 -
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A few points.
I think that the airport should be covered by Dart extension from the Northern line from Howth Junction. The Spur could come from anypoint from Howth Junction to Portmarnock, but it would be across open country. A 30 min service to Connolly would be OK, journey time to be 15 min or so.
Electrify the Maynooth line, and extend the Dart - should be simple enough.
If Leinster St and Nassau St had a contra-flow buslane to join with the bus lane from Dawson St, then busses would be able to get from Merrion Sq to College Green quicker and with more freedom, avoiding the difficult turn into Westland Row. It has the advantage that busses going north follow the same route as southbound ones. Passengers would be delivered to Grafton St.
Nassau St suffers from coach parking, making for difficulties for the huge amount of busses that stop there. They should be forced to park elsewhere, perhaps in the docks area. A set-down rule should apply.
Clare Street could be busses only from Leinster St to Merrion Sq, with 'normal' traffic going left round Lincon Place and back to Merrion Sq. This would give a better flow to the traffic. The busses would miss the connection with Pearse station though.0 -
A DORT spur from the Howth junction area, amazing nobody thought of that before.
Should be grand. More than 50,000 meeters, greeters, arrivals and staff travel to the airport everyday. This will never change as clearly air travel is on the way out.
A DORT train every 15 mins will manage that no bother.
Other DORT commuters will be glad to take to buses so the flyers can use the system.
Or.....maybe the idea is bonkers.0 -
Yes the Dart spur idea has been around a long time and now that metro north has been shelved for the forseable future, IE has made this project a priority.
As a temporary measure it could work, it would not however be of any benefit to commuters.The only practical way they could operate this would be to use it as an express airport to city centre service(similar to the Heathrow-London express).They could run it every 30 mins with a return ticket costing around €20 for a direct 20 minute train into Connoly. Down the line when (or if) the dart underground gets built this will especially be of benefit to those travelling to destinations around the city centre.0 -
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metrostation wrote: »Yes the Dart spur idea has been around a long time and now that metro north has been shelved for the forseable future, IE has made this project a priority.
As a temporary measure it could work, it would not however be of any benefit to commuters.The only practical way they could operate this would be to use it as an express airport to city centre service(similar to the Heathrow-London express).They could run it every 30 mins with a return ticket costing around €20 for a direct 20 minute train into Connoly. Down the line when (or if) the dart underground gets built this will especially be of benefit to those travelling to destinations around the city centre.
It would not be temporary, because it would be used heavily. Certainly as an express trip into town, it would be popular and reliable (if anything is). The Dart underground would take years and years to be decided upon let alone built. The spur is over open countryside so could be built in no time if it got the nod. It could also be continued to Ballymun and link up with lines to the west, say skirting Cappagh and onto Broombridge, and eventually Heuston.0 -
Sam Russell wrote: »It would not be temporary, because it would be used heavily. Certainly as an express trip into town, it would be popular and reliable (if anything is). The Dart underground would take years and years to be decided upon let alone built. The spur is over open countryside so could be built in no time if it got the nod. It could also be continued to Ballymun and link up with lines to the west, say skirting Cappagh and onto Broombridge, and eventually Heuston.
The dart underground may be getting the go-ahead sooner than we think, the EU have already stated they would be providing funding for the project.
"A combination of potential EU funding, to a maximum of between 20pc and 30pc of the total cost and a one-off special allocation from the Exchequer could allow the project to be re-started," a department of transport spokesman said.
"The EU regards Dart Underground as a significant project on a European scale because it would connect all the main rail lines, and it remains a live project for the National Transport Authority (NTA)."0 -
metrostation wrote: »The dart underground may be getting the go-ahead sooner than we think, the EU have already stated they would be providing funding for the project.
"A combination of potential EU funding, to a maximum of between 20pc and 30pc of the total cost and a one-off special allocation from the Exchequer could allow the project to be re-started," a department of transport spokesman said.
"The EU regards Dart Underground as a significant project on a European scale because it would connect all the main rail lines, and it remains a live project for the National Transport Authority (NTA)."
It would be nice to see a source for the bold type quote given above.
A very important project for Ireland, to be sure, and one I am broadly in favour of. But how can anybody be expected to take seriously a comment that the EU regards this project as "a significant project on a European scale"? It's a project which is planned to take place on an island in Europe which has no connection to any other island and which is to take place on a rail network which has its own gauge. How can this really have a "European" scale to it?0 -
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strassenwo!f wrote: »It would be nice to see a source for the bold type quote given above.
A very important project for Ireland, to be sure, and one I am broadly in favour of. But how can anybody be expected to take seriously a comment that the EU regards this project as "a significant project on a European scale"? It's a project which is planned to take place on an island in Europe which has no connection to any other island and which is to take place on a rail network which has its own gauge. How can this really have a "European" scale to it?
Didn't the bank crash of Anglo Irish Bank occur on an island in Europe which has no connection to any other island but was not only on a European scale but on a world-wide scale?
We need projects funded by Europe to get us out of the hole we are in, and what better project than an underground railway to get us out of a hole?0 -
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The photos are great but I think architects should be given stick figures which resemble junkies. It might help them design areas to be as junkie unfriendly as possible - a design skill which Dublin planners need.0
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strassenwo!f wrote: »It would be nice to see a source for the bold type quote given above.
A very important project for Ireland, to be sure, and one I am broadly in favour of. But how can anybody be expected to take seriously a comment that the EU regards this project as "a significant project on a European scale"? It's a project which is planned to take place on an island in Europe which has no connection to any other island and which is to take place on a rail network which has its own gauge. How can this really have a "European" scale to it?
Source here: http://http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/airport-link-tunnel-included-in-expanded-dart-plan-29479191.html
It is an important project on a european basis as we are viewed as one of the very few important cities within the EU without either an airport rail link or a comprehensive city metro network.The EU has helped fund many important projects in this country including hospitals, schools, motorways, Ferry ports etc. and this would rank as a fairly significant project dont you think?0 -
Sam Russell wrote: »Didn't the bank crash of Anglo Irish Bank occur on an island in Europe which has no connection to any other island but was not only on a European scale but on a world-wide scale?
We need projects funded by Europe to get us out of the hole we are in, and what better project than an underground railway to get us out of a hole?
Don't wish to stray too far from the issue of metro north, but wasn't much of Ireland's problem the fact that its banking system was connected to that of other countries, so it was easy to borrow cash from external banks?
Did you think that some guy from Bayerische HypothekenEuroSparkassenLandesbank got on a plane from Munich to Dublin with a suitcase full of euros, waited at the carousel to collect it and then headed in on the Aircoach to St. Stephen's Green to lend it to Anglo?metrostation wrote:Source here: http://http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/airport-link-tunnel-included-in-expanded-dart-plan-29479191.html
It is an important project on a european basis as we are viewed as one of the very few important cities within the EU without either an airport rail link or a comprehensive city metro network.The EU has helped fund many important projects in this country including hospitals, schools, motorways, Ferry ports etc. and this would rank as a fairly significant project dont you think?
Thanks for providing the link.
The EU has helped build the things you mention because it is desirable for the citizens of the EU to be healthy and educated, and because it is desirable for people to move freely around a particular area of the EU and to move between the different areas of the EU.
I think both the metro and interconnector are important projects. But they are not, for example, the resurfacing of the Brenner pass or the construction of a high speed link between Frankfurt and Paris, both of which could very conceivably have significant knock-on effects in at least a dozen countries in the EU. Those are projects on a "European scale".
For some mouthpiece from the Department of Transport to suggest that either of Dublin's major infrastructure projects is a project on a "European scale" does sound, to me, like a bit of an overstatement.0 -
I believe these guys were around before.
http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/private-group-revives-plan-to-build-19bn-dublin-metro-service-29740692.html0 -
I believe these guys were around before.
http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/private-group-revives-plan-to-build-19bn-dublin-metro-service-29740692.html
Let's hope these guys get the go ahead because the city needs it. We are a nation of talkers just get on and build the thing....0 -
handlemaster wrote: »Let's hope these guys get the go ahead because the city needs it. We are a nation of talkers just get on and build the thing....
Who are "these guys" and what is their Agenda ? 200 million from levies ? Where can we view the actual plan , rather than some vague dream ?0 -
What's the point? The government HAS. NO. MONEY. Unless this private group can show a plan that costs the state absolutely nothing, they're wasting their time.0
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Who are "these guys" and what is their Agenda ? 200 million from levies ? Where can we view the actual plan , rather than some vague dream ?
Well who ever they are hopefully becomes apparent and maybe they will do more than most sitting behind a VDU bitching about people who dare to move forward0 -
handlemaster wrote: »Well who ever they are hopefully becomes apparent and maybe they will do more than most sitting behind a VDU bitching about people who dare to move forward
Hi folks,
Their website is http://www.metrodublin.ie.
Provides a bit more info but says site is under construction.0 -
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Hi folks,
Their website is http://www.metrodublin.ie.
Provides a bit more info but says site is under construction.
Who is the site registered to .?0
This discussion has been closed.
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