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Undertaking on the motorway

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24567…45

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    #32
    pippip
    Registered Users Posts: 2,249 ✭✭✭pippip


    I was on the m50 in rush hour a few months back and a garda van was pissing down the outside lane (no lights or anything) at the lucan exit he moved across to the inside lane forcing all the queue jumpers (doddling along looking for a gap) to move on and once past the exit moved back out to the outside.

    Thought it was brilliant, don't know how the queue jumpers dont cause more accidents.


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    #33
    mathepac
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,991 ✭✭✭mathepac


    Guy:Incognito wrote: »
    If someone goes by you on the left YOU are in the wrong lane. If your driving properly it can't happen
    What an endearingly naive post with the faithful little acolytes adding their +1's.

    Passing on the near-side on a motorway is both dangerous and illegal, just in case it escaped your attention; another motorist being "in the wrong lane", as you so charmingly describe it, is merely a matter of opinion. Given the course of action you prescribe, yours thankfully doesn't count.

    If you want to drive where undertaking is legal go to the States. No doubt you could also legally shoot people for being "in the wrong lane"


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    #34
    corktina
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,733 ✭✭✭✭corktina


    :rolleyes:do we have to do this again?


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    #35
    djimi
    Registered Users Posts: 13,238 ✭✭✭✭djimi


    Anan1 wrote: »
    Isn't that a very big only?

    Perhaps, but the same could be said of overtaking on the right.

    As far as Im concerned if someone changes lanes without looking then they are at fault for whatever happens, end of story. There is no "I didnt expect him to be there" in driving; you should be aware of your surroundings at all times. If youre not sure that a lane is clear to move into then you dont move into it. Assume nothing.


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    #36
    Anan1
    Registered Users Posts: 22,818 ✭✭✭✭Anan1


    mathepac wrote: »
    ...another motorist being "in the wrong lane", as you so charmingly describe it, is merely a matter of opinion.
    No it's not.
    djimi wrote: »
    Perhaps, but the same could be said of overtaking on the right.

    As far as Im concerned if someone changes lanes without looking then they are at fault for whatever happens, end of story. There is no "I didnt expect him to be there" in driving; you should be aware of your surroundings at all times. If youre not sure that a lane is clear to move into then you dont move into it. Assume nothing.
    Agreed, but fault isn't the issue. We already know that someone blocking the overtaking lane is a bit tuned out, undertaking them is therefore more dangerous than a standard overtake.


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    #37
    mathepac
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,991 ✭✭✭mathepac


    corktina wrote: »
    :rolleyes:do we have to do this again?
    For the sake of the "I own the bleedin' road an' I make the bleedin' rules" gang apparently we must do it on a regular basis, but it gets boring.

    They also do the "let's legalize every mood-altering substance known to man for recreational use" threads and the "why do I need a TV licence?" kind, just for variety.

    Each time they start one of these threads the thinking seems to be "look at how radical and daring I am today dudes", forgetting it was done and dusted yesterday. I blame the parents. And the drugs. And the TV. And the GAA.


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    #38
    mathepac
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,991 ✭✭✭mathepac


    Anan1 wrote: »
    No it's not.
    In the context of the post I responded to and the thread generally it certainly is or are you just lost in the thread flow?


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    #39
    Anan1
    Registered Users Posts: 22,818 ✭✭✭✭Anan1


    mathepac wrote: »
    In the context of the post I responded to and the thread generally it certainly is or are you just lost in the thread flow?
    No, it's not. The rule is simple, and clear - drive left, overtake right.


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    #40
    djimi
    Registered Users Posts: 13,238 ✭✭✭✭djimi


    Anan1 wrote: »
    We already know that someone blocking the overtaking lane is a bit tuned out, undertaking them is therefore more dangerous than a standard overtake.

    Again the same could be said about overtaking them, no? If someone is a decent driver then it doesnt matter which side you pass them on as they will pay attention to both sides when changing lanes (I suppose a decent driver wouldnt need to be undertaken...); if they are a complete moron then they are just as likely to move right without due care as they are to move left.

    Im not saying undertaking is correct, dont get me wrong. I just dont agree with the idea that the undertaker is the one causing the danger; if the person being passed showed the proper amount of awareness on the road then undertaking would not be an issue.


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    #41
    coffee_cake
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Politics Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 81,309 CMod ✭✭✭✭coffee_cake


    Not wrote: »
    And there are those who do keep to the left lane, until I come up behind them and as I'm about to move out to pass they suddenly move out into the middle lane for no bl00dy reason :confused:

    Lets not forget those who trundle down slip roads on to motorways at 60k's and go straight for the middle lane

    yes!
    kill kill kill :mad::mad:


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    #42
    mathepac
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,991 ✭✭✭mathepac


    djimi wrote: »
    ... I just dont agree with the idea that the undertaker is the one causing the danger; ...
    Undertaking is both dangerous and illegal, if you don't agree get the road traffic laws changed, until then we simply obey them. Can you imagine trusting your safety on the road to the drivers (assuming they're not trolls) behind some of the lunatic posts here? I think I'd be driving the JCB everywhere. :)


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    #43
    Max Power1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,272 ✭✭✭✭Max Power1


    mathepac wrote: »
    What an endearingly naive post with the faithful little acolytes adding their +1's.

    Passing on the near-side on a motorway is both dangerous and illegal, just in case it escaped your attention; another motorist being "in the wrong lane", as you so charmingly describe it, is merely a matter of opinion. Given the course of action you prescribe, yours thankfully doesn't count.

    If you want to drive where undertaking is legal go to the States. No doubt you could also legally shoot people for being "in the wrong lane"
    You amuse me

    Keep your misinformed tripe coming. You overtaking lane hogger :D


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    #44
    Anan1
    Registered Users Posts: 22,818 ✭✭✭✭Anan1


    djimi wrote: »
    Im not saying undertaking is correct, dont get me wrong. I just dont agree with the idea that the undertaker is the one causing the danger; if the person being passed showed the proper amount of awareness on the road then undertaking would not be an issue.
    IMO it's a bit of a grey area. I undertake regularly, because I don't want to be delayed and because by not undertaking I then become part of the rolling roadblock myself. It does carry a risk though, and if worst came to worst I couldn't really describe myself as an innocent party.


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    #45
    MrDerp
    Registered Users Posts: 990 ✭✭✭MrDerp


    mathepac wrote: »
    Undertaking is both dangerous and illegal, if you don't agree get the road traffic laws changed, until then we simply obey them. Can you imagine trusting your safety on the road to the drivers (assuming they're not trolls) behind some of the lunatic posts here? I think I'd be driving the JCB everywhere. :)

    Which is more dangerous?
    - undertaking on a motorway
    - overtaking on a broken white line on a regional route where the visibility isn't 100% e.g. a bit of a hill or a partial bend in front of you
    Which is legal?

    If the idiot in the outside lane has a reasonably expectancy of no-one passing on nearside, then other drivers have a reasonable expectancy of the idiot not being there in the first place.

    The alternative is to sit behind the driver in the overtaking lane. What happens when the next car approaches from behind? A situation has now been created where someone will attempt to pass 2 or more cars on the left.

    Drive up, maintaining respectful distance:
    - If no movement, show right indicator. Wait. [has never worked]
    - If no movement, flash. Wait. [sometimes works]
    - If no movement, move into driving lane. Wait. [likely to work. Some panic when they realise you're 'crazy' enough to undertake and change lanes in a panic. These are the idiots that think they should police the 'fast' lane at the speed limit]
    - If no movement, and not near a junction, chuck on the hazards and get past the idiot as quickly as your car will allow.
    - Curse muppet, but don't beep or stare. You might startle him/her and get labelled a bad aggressive driver :rolleyes:


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    #46
    Zubeneschamali
    Registered Users Posts: 16,686 ✭✭✭✭Zubeneschamali


    mathepac wrote: »
    Undertaking is both dangerous and illegal, if you don't agree get the road traffic laws changed, until then we simply obey them.

    No "we" don't. Maybe you do, but life is too short.


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    #47
    ProudDUB
    Registered Users Posts: 11,569 ✭✭✭✭ProudDUB


    At the risk of sounding like a complete moron, what is undertaking exactly?

    Is it over taking someone on the left, coz they are hogging the right lane & driving too slow?


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    #48
    Zubeneschamali
    Registered Users Posts: 16,686 ✭✭✭✭Zubeneschamali


    MrDerp wrote: »
    The alternative is to sit behind the driver in the overtaking lane.

    If you're coming up behind them in the overtaking lane, you are doing it wrong. You should be in the driving lane.

    According to the Rules, when this happens, you are allowed to drive up level with them, but not to pass. You are obliged to form a rolling roadblock alongside them, which is more dangerous than simply passing.


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    #49
    MrDerp
    Registered Users Posts: 990 ✭✭✭MrDerp


    Zubeneschamali wrote: »
    If you're coming up behind them in the overtaking lane, you are doing it wrong. You should be in the driving lane.

    According to the Rules, when this happens, you are allowed to drive up level with them, but not to pass. You are obliged to form a rolling roadblock alongside them, which is more dangerous than simply passing.

    Naturally it's a given that one must first pull into the overtaking lane, but I tend to do this well in advance of my intention to overtake, which means I will come up behind the driver in the overtaking lane. It being a motorway, one can spot the lane hogger well in advance of any approach.

    This also allows the other driver a longer opportunity to see me coming than if I simply pulled into the overtaking lane at the safe distance. Most lane hoggers, in my experience, will safely move in to the driving lane as you approach (if not defacto overtaking other traffic at that time), before pulling back out after you've passed. While this is also incorrect, I get that some people like to switch off with no traffic in front of them in their lane - fine as long as you switch on when being met by overtaking traffic.

    Lane hoggers are the least of my issues to be honest though. My biggest problem is 100km/h drivers who catch up with 90km/h drivers, slow to match their speed, pull out and then try to overtake a 2-3km/h more than the traffic they are overtaking. They typically panic if there's any bit of a bend in the road then and sit outside a truck or bus until the road straightens out. They're more likely to form the roadblock (along with the trucks that overtake) than any mere lane hogger.


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    #50
    dillo2k10
    Registered Users Posts: 1,397 ✭✭✭dillo2k10


    mathepac wrote: »
    What an endearingly naive post with the faithful little acolytes adding their +1's.

    Passing on the near-side on a motorway is both dangerous and illegal, just in case it escaped your attention; another motorist being "in the wrong lane", as you so charmingly describe it, is merely a matter of opinion. Given the course of action you prescribe, yours thankfully doesn't count.

    It is not just a matter of opinion, it is illegal to drive in the overtaking lane.


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    #51
    nookie
    Closed Accounts Posts: 132 ✭✭nookie


    This post has been deleted.


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    #52
    BailMeOut
    Registered Users Posts: 2,977 ✭✭✭BailMeOut


    according to the RSA you can overtake on the left when "traffic in both lanes is moving slowly and traffic in the left-hand lane is moving more quickly than the traffic in the right-hand lane." and then goes on to say you must not overtake when "You are in the left-hand lane of a dual carriageway or motorway when traffic is moving at normal speed."

    http://www.rotr.ie/rules-for-driving/good-driving-practice/overtaking.html

    If someone is hogging the outside lane at say 80kph then surly that is not normal speed so would be legal to pass them on the left.

    splitting hairs now but rules say you must not pass if in the left-hand lane of a dual carriageway or motorway, no mention of passing if in middle lane!!


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    #53
    djimi
    Registered Users Posts: 13,238 ✭✭✭✭djimi


    BailMeOut wrote: »
    according to the RSA you can overtake on the left when "traffic in both lanes is moving slowly and traffic in the left-hand lane is moving more quickly than the traffic in the right-hand lane." and then goes on to say you must not overtake when "You are in the left-hand lane of a dual carriageway or motorway when traffic is moving at normal speed."

    http://www.rotr.ie/rules-for-driving/good-driving-practice/overtaking.html

    If someone is hogging the outside lane at say 80kph then surly that is not normal speed so would be legal to pass them on the left.

    splitting hairs now but rules say you must not pass if in the left-hand lane of a dual carriageway or motorway, no mention of passing if in middle lane!!

    It means that if you are on the m50 in three lanes of barely moving traffic, its not considered to be undertaking if the left hand land is moving faster than the outer lanes. Or if you are stopped at the lights at Newlands Cross and the cars in the left lane take off faster than the right lane.

    It doesnt mean that if the prick in the middle lane is doing 20mph under the speed limit its okay to undertake him.


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    #54
    Zubeneschamali
    Registered Users Posts: 16,686 ✭✭✭✭Zubeneschamali


    BailMeOut wrote: »
    If someone is hogging the outside lane at say 80kph then surly that is not normal speed so would be legal to pass them on the left.

    I undertake too at times (did on Monday last, for example), but it is illegal and you can be done for it. No way is a guard or a judge going to go for "80 kph is slow moving traffic" as an excuse.


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    #55
    mathepac
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,991 ✭✭✭mathepac


    MrDerp wrote: »
    Which is more dangerous?
    - undertaking on a motorway
    - overtaking on a broken white line on a regional route where the visibility isn't 100% e.g. a bit of a hill or a partial bend in front of you
    Which is legal? ...
    The first is illegal and dangerous, the second isn't illegal but may be deemed to be careless / dangerous driving.

    The rest of your post isn't worth commenting on, it's so childishly about "me me me and my demands and expectations of others on the road."


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    #56
    cjt156
    Registered Users Posts: 2,062 ✭✭✭cjt156


    mathepac wrote: »
    blah blah blah...smug shyte and stuff about acolytes

    If you are in the overtaking lane and there is room for someone to pass you on the left you should not be in the overtaking lane.

    What part of that statement do you think is incorrect and so worthy of your derision?


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    #57
    Dartz
    Registered Users Posts: 4,371 ✭✭✭Dartz


    djimi wrote: »
    It means that if you are on the m50 in three lanes of barely moving traffic, its not considered to be undertaking if the left hand land is moving faster than the outer lanes. Or if you are stopped at the lights at Newlands Cross and the cars in the left lane take off faster than the right lane.

    It doesnt mean that if the prick in the middle lane is doing 20mph under the speed limit its okay to undertake him.

    Neither does it make sense to cross three lanes of traffic to go around the **** either. That's just as dangerous, if not more so.

    If I'm trundling along up the inside lane doing a hundred I amn't going to slow down because someone is doing 80 in the middle. That's pants-on-fire retarded.

    Whether it's the law or not doesn't matter, it's stupid and therefore wrong.


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    #58
    corktina
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,733 ✭✭✭✭corktina


    Zubeneschamali wrote: »
    I undertake myself at times (did on Monday last, for example), but it is illegal and you can be done for it. No way is a guard or a judge going to go for "80 kph is slow moving traffic" as an excuse.

    you undertook yourself? :mad: were you hogging the Outside fast lane or something?:confused::eek:


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    #59
    djimi
    Registered Users Posts: 13,238 ✭✭✭✭djimi


    Dartz wrote: »
    Neither does it make sense to cross three lanes of traffic to go around the **** either. That's just as dangerous, if not more so.

    If I'm trundling along up the inside lane doing a hundred I amn't going to slow down because someone is doing 80 in the middle. That's pants-on-fire retarded.

    Whether it's the law or not doesn't matter, it's stupid and therefore wrong.

    Dont get me wrong; I agree with you and there is no way I am crossing two lanes of traffic to overtake some dip**** who is doing 45mph in the middle lane of the Naas dual carraigeway. Im simply clarifying the meaning of that quote from the ROTR or wherever it was from.


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    #60
    mathepac
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,991 ✭✭✭mathepac


    dillo2k10 wrote: »
    It is not just a matter of opinion, it is illegal to drive in the overtaking lane.
    The last time I heard from you was in another thread where you appeared to be a learner driver trying to get guidance on "protocol" on motorways, the "who has right of way?" question.

    If you are a learner, refer to page 45 in the Rules of the Road about the current topic which is "Undertaking on the motorway"

    Just to point out to you as part of your learning, there is no such thing as an "overtaking lane" on a motorway nor is there an "undertaking lane" on a motorway or any other public carriageway.

    As there is no such thing as an "overtaking lane" it can't be illegal to drive on it. See pages 79 / 80 in the Rules of the Road and other about lane control in tunnels etc.

    Always glad to facilitate learning


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    #61
    Connavar
    Registered Users Posts: 849 ✭✭✭Connavar


    mathepac wrote: »

    Just to point out to you as part of your learning, there is no such think as an "overtaking lane" on a motorway nor is there an "undertaking lane" on a motorway or any other public carriageway.

    Yes there is no term overtaking lane. They are called lane 2 and lane 3, which you are not supposed to drive in except when overtaking. Unless in special circumstances
    http://www.rotr.ie/rules-for-driving/motorways/on-the-motorway.html
    Lane 1

    The normal 'keep left' rule applies. Stay in this lane unless you are overtaking.
    Lane 2

    On a two-lane motorway, use this for overtaking only and move back into lane 1 when you have finished. You may also use this lane to accommodate traffic merging from the left.
    On a three-lane motorway, you may stay in this centre lane while there is slower moving traffic in lane 1.
    Lane 3

    If you are travelling on a three-lane motorway, you must use this lane only if traffic in lanes 1 and 2 is moving in queues and you need to overtake or accommodate merging traffic. Once you've finished overtaking, move back to your left and allow faster traffic coming from behind to pass by.
    You must not use the lane nearest the central median (lane 2 or lane 3, depending on the motorway width) if you are driving:
    • a goods vehicle with a design gross vehicle weight of more than 3,500 kilograms,
    • a passenger vehicle with seating for more than 8 passengers (aside from the driver), or
    • a vehicle towing a trailer, horsebox or caravan.
    You may use it, however, in exceptional circumstances when you cannot proceed in the inner lane because of a blockage ahead. You may also use it if you are at a location on a motorway where a speed limit of 80km/h or less applies.


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