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If you are pregnant , don't bother with MY school

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    #242
    micropig
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,366 ✭✭✭micropig


    hondasam wrote: »
    You can pick the perfect partner but **** happens, people separate and women become single mothers.
    What about if your partner dies? is this type of single mother ok with you?

    Yes people separate...but when they do the child doesn't drop dead and no longer needs to be cared for




    Just because the parents are not in a relationship does not mean they do not have responsibility for their children and the state picks up the pieces.

    What type of home did this girl come from?


    Partner dies: I have no problem supporting the children, I'll even give them a €50 from my own pocket if I meet them on the street:D


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    #243
    crucamim
    Registered Users Posts: 897 ✭✭✭crucamim


    I did not know that the law requires a Catholic school, or indeed any school, to accept a 16 year old.

    Why should a Catholic school accept a 16 year old who obviously does not accept one of the core principles of Catholicism? Why should a Catholic school allow its Catholicism to be undermined by any pupil? Or by any teacher? This girl's rights do not exist in isolation from the rights of the owners of the school or from the rights of the parents of children attending that school.


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    #244
    coffee_cake
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Politics Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 81,309 CMod ✭✭✭✭coffee_cake


    hondasam wrote: »
    You can pick the perfect partner but **** happens, people separate and women become single mothers.
    What about if your partner dies? is this type of single mother ok with you?

    It's your fault for picking someone who was going to die! How dare you not choose better!

    crucamim wrote: »
    I did not know that the law requires a Catholic school, or indeed any school, to accept a 16 year old.
    well now you do.


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    #245
    hondasam
    Closed Accounts Posts: 34,418 ✭✭✭✭hondasam


    micropig wrote: »
    Yes. Unable to choose a suitable partner


    Choosing a person who will run, instead of facing their responsibilities and all the 'accidents' with the contraception:rolleyes:

    You see the world so different to everyone else, one of these days you will get a rude awakening.


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    #246
    Crann na Beatha
    Registered Users Posts: 11,763 ✭✭✭✭Crann na Beatha


    This post has been deleted.


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    #247
    micropig
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,366 ✭✭✭micropig


    eviltwin wrote: »
    In the context of this story the girl in question is trying to get her life back on track. Surely that is a good thing? She is only 16, she should remain in school and do her exams, go to college and get a job. Same with the dad. The better both of them do in school the less chance they have of being a drain on the state.

    True, and she has that.


    I'm all for education but a baby changes things.

    I'm not suggesting that she is refused education, but it's a catholic school with an ethos she doesn't subscribe to.She has a place in another school. What's the big deal?


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    #248
    ash23
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,791 ✭✭✭ash23


    micropig wrote: »
    Just because the parents are not in a relationship does not mean they do not have responsibility for their children and the state picks up the pieces.

    No, but sometimes one person ends up picking up the pieces without the states help.
    You do keep insisting the state picks up the pieces or the tab. You fail to acknowledge the majority of single parents doing it with no state support.


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    #249
    micropig
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,366 ✭✭✭micropig


    hondasam wrote: »
    You see the world so different to everyone else, one of these days you will get a rude awakening.

    Or maybe other people will start seeing the wood for the trees;):p


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    #250
    eviltwin
    Registered Users Posts: 17,495 ✭✭✭✭eviltwin


    micropig wrote: »
    True, and she has that.


    I'm all for education but a baby changes things.

    I'm not suggesting that she is refused education, but it's a catholic school with an ethos she doesn't subscribe to.She has a place in another school. What's the big deal?

    The Catholic ethos??

    Well where does it end? Shall we refuse gay pupils? Pupils from other religions? Pupils whose parents are unmarried or divorced?

    They are either Catholic or they are not, the fact they singled out the one sin of having a baby - which is not in itself a sin - shows this school is doing nothing more but discriminating and as women are the only gender who can get pregnant you can argue its a form of sexual discrimination.


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    #251
    ash23
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,791 ✭✭✭ash23


    micropig wrote: »
    What's the big deal?


    The fact that she was discriminated against for being pregnant and having a child. Obviously.


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    #252
    hondasam
    Closed Accounts Posts: 34,418 ✭✭✭✭hondasam


    micropig wrote: »
    Yes people separate...but when they do the child doesn't drop dead and no longer needs to be cared for

    Just because the parents are not in a relationship does not mean they do not have responsibility for their children and the state picks up the pieces.

    What type of home did this girl come from?


    Partner dies: I have no problem supporting the children, I'll even give them a €50 from my own pocket if I meet them on the street:D

    I know what it's like to be a single mother and the state did not need to provide for my children, I did that myself.

    You seem to think all single mothers rely on welfare, Newsflash THEY DONT.

    stop using those stupid smiley's, your posts come across as childish and trollish.


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    #253
    Pherekydes
    Registered Users Posts: 16,119 ✭✭✭✭Pherekydes


    micropig wrote: »
    ...both still have a duty to the child.

    Great. Easily said or typed. But not so easy in practice. What if one parent leaves the jurisdiction? Absconds out of the state.


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    #254
    hondasam
    Closed Accounts Posts: 34,418 ✭✭✭✭hondasam


    micropig wrote: »
    Or maybe other people will start seeing the wood for the trees;):p

    she got pregnant, it's not the ideal situation but she is trying her best to get an education and hopefully get a job in order to give her child a decent life.
    My biggest problem with the story is the attitude of the principle it's downright insulting to people in general not just mothers.
    We all make mistakes but hopefully learn from them.


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    #255
    PlainP
    Closed Accounts Posts: 714 ✭✭✭PlainP


    They're taliking about it on Joe Duffy atm for those who want to listen in..


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    #256
    SerialComplaint
    Registered Users Posts: 2,644 ✭✭✭SerialComplaint


    crucamim wrote: »
    I did not know that the law requires a Catholic school, or indeed any school, to accept a 16 year old.

    Why should a Catholic school accept a 16 year old who obviously does not accept one of the core principles of Catholicism? Why should a Catholic school allow its Catholicism to be undermined by any pupil? Or by any teacher? This girl's rights do not exist in isolation from the rights of the owners of the school or from the rights of the parents of children attending that school.

    So you're suggesting that anyone who doesn't accept the core principles of Catholicism should not be permitted in any Catholic school - right? So any teenager who masturbates then, would be excluded from Catholic schools? And any teenager who is homosexual would be excluded from Catholic schools? And any teenager who believes that perhaps some women would be great priests should be excluded from Catholic schools? And any teenager who believes that condoms might help cut down Aids in Africa should be excluded from Catholic schools?

    If you're going to have morality tests - let's have fair and equality morality tests for everybody - not just the girls with a bump under their school jumpers.


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    #257
    prinz
    Registered Users Posts: 14,598 ✭✭✭✭prinz


    On the one side:
    She should get her education.

    On the other side:
    The school should have the right to promote the ethos, and all that that encompasses, including views on teenage pregnancies, premarital sex etc without fear of one student then kicking up a fuss about discrimination or feeling picked on. You'd also have to take steps that it doesn't become a distraction for other pupils. You'd also have to look at the insurance on the school etc in the worst case scenario anything were to happen the girl on school grounds.

    On the balance:
    Let her in, if she's willing to play her part.


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    #258
    dvpower
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,183 ✭✭✭dvpower


    Biggins wrote: »
    If they are good enough to be allowed join the main org', surely a single person can get over himself and his daftness, and not discriminate against a young school girl?
    The point is that we allow them to discriminate based on their 'ethos', so we can't expect then to be allowed to tell them what their 'ethos' should cover.

    We need to remove their exemption from the Equal Status Act which allows them to discriminate where anyone else would be prosecuted.


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    #259
    Logical Fallacy
    Registered Users Posts: 5,933 ✭✭✭Logical Fallacy


    seanmc1980 wrote: »
    i'd have to agree with the school here. there are plenty of schools that will take anybody. If i was a parent of a young teenage girl i wouldn't want a single teen mother telling everyone how much she get off gov, free house etc... she could potentially glamourise her situation to other pupil. fair play to the school for putting the mass before the individual!

    In this case, very literally.
    SerialComplaint wrote: »
    So you're suggesting that anyone who doesn't accept the core principles of Catholicism should not be permitted in any Catholic school - right? So any teenager who masturbates then, would be excluded from Catholic schools? And any teenager who is homosexual would be excluded from Catholic schools? And any teenager who believes that perhaps some women would be great priests should be excluded from Catholic schools? And any teenager who believes that condoms might help cut down Aids in Africa should be excluded from Catholic schools?

    If you're going to have morality tests - let's have fair and equality morality tests for everybody - not just the girls with a bump under their school jumpers.

    You would also need to see a massive change in school uniforms.

    Remember, the bible says you cannot wear a blended material.


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    #260
    geeky
    Registered Users Posts: 2,380 ✭✭✭geeky


    What's amazing about the report IMO isn't just the bigotry of the principal/manager in School A - it's his spectacular contempt for an organ of state.
    The Office requested, but did not receive, a copy of the school’s complaint procedures.

    In this particular school, the ‘Whole School Evaluation Report’ issued by the Department of Education and Science in 2007 indicates that there is no Board of Management in place nor are there plans for one. According to the Report, at that time the Principal of the school, was also the founder, owner and patron. It is stated that “the Principal appointed his son as manager of the school in 2006”

    No information was provided by the School during the investigation in relation to its management structure, other than the school advised that it is ‘unitary managed’. No details were given regarding the implications of this for issues relating to enrolment or handling of complaints. It has not been made known to this Office what consideration was given by the school to establishing a Board of Management and its rationale for not doing. It is also not
    been revealed to the Office, what steps, if any, have been taken since 2007 in relation to establishing an Advisory group as recommended by the Department.

    The Department has not directed that schools follow a specific complaints procedure and no procedures have been prescribed under Section 28 of the Education Act 1998, resulting in no regulated complaints process in schools. In this case, the school has characterised complaints policies as ‘frills’, which it is not obliged to have in place. The Ombudsman for Children in her 2010 annual report raised the issue that the statutory arrangements under
    Section 28 of the Education Act 1998, have not been put into operation.

    The school is obliged to have an admissions policy and to publish same. No policy was provided to this Office or available on the school website.

    Response from the School
    The response received from the School does not include any response to the
    recommendations or detail the steps being taken in relation to these

    Whatever about his objection to having a single mother in the school, school 'a's manager clearly doesn't equate the state support he receives with an obligation to follow the rules.


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    #261
    Stercus Accidit
    Registered Users Posts: 8,758 ✭✭✭Stercus Accidit


    luckyfrank wrote: »
    school kids shouldnt really be getting pregnant

    They need the most education though.


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    #262
    old_aussie
    Registered Users Posts: 3,410 ✭✭✭old_aussie


    Schoolgirl mother, earn while you learn.


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    #263
    minidazzler
    Registered Users Posts: 14,739 ✭✭✭✭minidazzler


    Jimmy Bottlehead wrote: »
    I do love how this Catholic school judges this girl so harshly, all while claiming to follow teachings like "let he who is without sin cast the first stone", "judge not lest ye be judged" and so on.

    Really shows the hypocrisy that many very religious folk have.

    And even better, Mary had another mans baby outside of wedlock. Yet she is held up as a beacon for all that is good and true.


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    #264
    dvpower
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,183 ✭✭✭dvpower


    prinz wrote: »
    You'd also have to take steps that it doesn't become a distraction for other pupils.
    Perhaps we could set up a system of asylums where kids like her could be kept out of view. She could earn her keep there by maybe doing laundry work or something.

    She wouldn't be able to distract anyone again. Just a thought.


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    #265
    prinz
    Registered Users Posts: 14,598 ✭✭✭✭prinz


    Logical Fallacy wrote: »
    You would also need to see a massive change in school uniforms..

    Not really relevant to this case though, catchy and all as it seems.


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    #266
    The Radiator
    Registered Users Posts: 629 ✭✭✭The Radiator


    School is right, yer wan was stupid


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    #267
    eviltwin
    Registered Users Posts: 17,495 ✭✭✭✭eviltwin


    Own goal for Liveline....a caller has just named the school :D


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    #268
    prinz
    Registered Users Posts: 14,598 ✭✭✭✭prinz


    dvpower wrote: »
    Just a thought.

    A fairly ill-thought out one, predictable in nature all the same. I'd imagine it's hard enough to keep secondary school students focused and paying attention, I can't see much productive work getting done when you have 30 odd students who want to feel the baby kicking for example. But hey, you want to pretend I was advocating a magdalene laundry, go ahead.


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    #269
    prinz
    Registered Users Posts: 14,598 ✭✭✭✭prinz


    eviltwin wrote: »
    Own goal for Liveline....a caller has just named the school :D

    Was it a caller from Clontaaaaaaaaaaaarf, ye ye ye ye go on ye ye ye, ah you cant be saying that Mary, ye ye


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    #270
    The Radiator
    Registered Users Posts: 629 ✭✭✭The Radiator


    eviltwin wrote: »
    Own goal for Liveline....a caller has just named the school :D

    That's not cool


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    #271
    eviltwin
    Registered Users Posts: 17,495 ✭✭✭✭eviltwin


    prinz wrote: »
    A fairly ill-thought out one, predictable in nature all the same. I'd imagine it's hard enough to keep secondary school students focused and paying attention, I can't see much productive work getting done when you have 30 odd students who want to feel the baby kicking for example. But hey, you want to pretend I was advocating a magdalene laundry, go ahead.


    She has had the baby so there is no "distraction"


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