Kerry GAA Discussion Thread Mod Warning Post #4167

kerry left mayo back into the game... they would destroy them in the championship and it was a lack of concentration that lost them the sam last year... won't happen this year... there no one better then KD at full forward in the county... so start him he do fine out...

danbrosnan wrote: »

kerry left mayo back into the game... they would destroy them in the championship and it was a lack of concentration that lost them the sam last year... won't happen this year... there no one better then KD at full forward in the county... so start him he do fine out...

I don't know.Kerry are a great team but you have to have concerns that hungrier teams are going to see those two games and know that Kerry are more vulnerable in the last 10 minutes of games.

I don't think Donaghy is the player he once was and that is no disrespect.Granted he had a big performance in the final last year, but in most other matches he has been found wanting.Ger Cafferkey put him in his pocket for most of last years semi final and Rory O Carroll has broken even with him.He was excellent from 2006-2008 but the 2009 season where he was injured, he has struggled to come back to previous levels.

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

Ok first off I am not trying to be a troll, I am a Mayo man living in Kerry, with a Kerry family, so I have an interest in Kerry football.

Since last years championship i have been saying that the days of Kerry making All Ireland final after All Ireland final are over and that even though the drought will not be as long as '86 -'97, due to the backdoor, it will still be a number of years before Kerry taste success again.

My main reasoning for this has been the age and mileage of the core players that have been around since 2002 odd, and lack of a deep bench and the lack of success at under-age level, 2008 U-21 Championship not withstanding.

This years league campaign has seen Kerry top Div 1 with a team that has introduced some new players to the senior team , Curtain Crowley etc.
But in the last game against Mayo they had to empty the bench of the established players like Marc O' Se, Galvin, Declan o' Sullivan and Darran O' Sullivan to avoid a heavy home defeat to Mayo.

With the exception of Thomas O' Se and Declan O' Sullivan the players that played some part in the semi-final v Mayo would have to be considered the full 2012 panel, i.e there is no one new, or established, players yet to make a return.
What Thomas O'Se can given can be questioned, will he be able to keep his cool and not get another lengthy suspension, does he still have the pace ?

I would fully expect Kerry to beat Tipp in June and then face Cork, in Cork, at the Munster Semi Final stage.
I do not think that Kerry will win that and as a result will have a tough three game journey through the qualifiers to get back to Croke Park.

I've been hearing the 'lot of mileage' line for the past 4 years at least and it still doesn't ring true.

tbqh - I would have expected a bit of a drought for Kerry but the young players coming through are quite good - BJK and James O'Donoghue have been impressive - BJK in particular stepping up quite a bit when compared to last years form imo.

Crowley & Enright being the main two players going into the backs are two fast, hard footballers who're intelligent on the ball and just what we need.

In addition to the players on the panel, Kerry will always have fellas in for training to help them come along and develop.

While yes, we'd like to win more underage titles - when the likes of Declan O'Sullivan, Darran O'Sullivan and other players were coming through at a young age - they were a bit green - the youth needs time to develop - I'm sure by the time we lose some of our Golden Generation we'll have another crop of young talent coming through with the likes of BJK, Dathaí Casey, Crowley etc. etc. experienced enough to pick up where they left off.

I could be wrong but I'm confident enough tbh

keane2097 wrote: »

I ended up putting my thoughts on Donaghy - not specific to yesterday's game - into words on another site FWIW:


Donaghy on the wing is a joke IMO. He's poor on the ball (soloing, kicking, pace-wise) so you don't really want him on it all that much. I don't buy the idea that he somehow helps our cause around midfield by being out there either. He's not good enough to play midfield, so if he's out there fielding he's probably in trouble against whoever is marking him, and we have probably three guys on the bench at least who would be better than him at winning breaks. Like, they seem to have this role in mind for him ranging from in front of our full back line to our full forward line that just seems like it was designed for Declan O'Sullivan and at the last minute decided to let Donaghy do it instead.

His problems as a full forward are almost entirely not of his making. Tactically, we're completely one dimensional with our use of him. I describe it as the Canty/Shields problem, and it's basically that no matter what type of full back the opposition send out to mark him we lump the same old ballooned balls into him and let him try to pick it out of the clouds. That's fine when he's marking a Shields type FB where he's going to be able to physically overpower them and win a lot of clean ball, but against a Canty type (slower, but stronger and better in the air) you have to use the fact that he's so mobile for the size of him and play him the same way we play the rest of our forwards, i.e. let him outrun them (which he will), play him a good ball in and let him turn at them.

We seem to have this sussed when we play Cork, but against every other team we just bomb ball in on top of him and play right at the strengths of the guys marking him. Like, Donaghy would destroy almost every full back in the country at everything besides catching high balls, yet our tactics for using him is to only use high balls? Dafuck!?

Totally agree with every word Keano. People maybe haven't realised that Donaghy is not the most skillful player in the classical sense..he can look very awkward at times soloing for example. You've hit the nail on the head with your description of him not being used properly or in a varied manner when at 14..there has been some terrible ball just lumped in on top of him in the last 3/4 years especially, which of course other managers/teams are going to stymie eventually. He will beat 90% of full backs hands down in the air and the rest he can generally get out in front of and win low ball...his handpassing is generally ok and he can bring runners into the play to good effect this way.
We have been getting away with him at wing-forward/midfield during the league..this will not work, in fact it will end up as a disadvantage to us if we persist with it during the c/ship.
The man is one of the most lethal players in the game on his day, close to goal...play him there. Name him at corner forward if necessary with Declan at full forward and vary the type of play/ball going in. I don't believe ANY team could cope with Kerry on even 40% of ball from midfield if this was worked properly. Last years final was a perfect example...the average viewer would say "oh Kerry woke up after half-time"....they woke up alright, but tactically. Donaghy was on the edge of the square, Dublin were forced to drop an extra man (or 2) back, leaving the Kerry middle third more space...result - Kerry score 8 points to 2 for their opponents in the 20 mins after half time.
Could go on more, but thats enough considering its still April I guess!

Emmet Ryan wrote: »

Just quoted that part as it seemed particularly prescient to the overall Donaghy question for Kerry. O'Connor doesn't seem comfortable deploying him as a pure front man because of concerns, accurate to some degree, of a lack of size further back. The problem is Donaghy really isn't suited as the primary tackler in defence, which is largely what one would want from bringing back a big fella. How he is used could be the defining story of Kerry's summer.

We had Maher and Sheehan playing between the half and full back lines much of the time in the second half against Mayo, and besides a fairly fortunate goal they barely made any impression in the second half. That's certainly a more sensible looking idea than having Donaghy back there.

If Stam is good enough why isn't he there already?

Full forward line should be Gooch, Curtin and Donaghy with Donaghy drifting in from the corner to come on to angled passes and Curtin on top of the square.

End of story IMO, although if you insist on doing something different then drop Donaghy for Barry John, and move Declan Sullivan in and out of the FF line in rotation with him. You could just go with Gooch, Curtin and O'Leary as a FF line either but it lacks strength.

I'm not as convinced as others seem to be about James O'Donaghue yet, think he's behind the other forwards in terms of physique and would probably prefer O'Leary to him at present.

PaulieC wrote: »

True - he could be in the bracket of ''good club forward'' but I've heard once or twice Jacko isn't a fan so could be something along those lines.

He's been brought in numerous times for training etc. - def went abroad with them once or twice also iirc.

Yeah I worry about a guy who has played pretty much exclusively club football being described as "deceptively fast". He wouldn't want anyone to be too deceived at club level if he's not going to be way too slow at County level if you know what I mean!

PaulieC wrote: »

True - he could be in the bracket of ''good club forward'' but I've heard once or twice Jacko isn't a fan so could be something along those lines.

He's been brought in numerous times for training etc. - def went abroad with them once or twice also iirc.

Curtin at 14 isn't a bad call actually he's supposed to be a strong guy - I'd disagree with the lack of strength mentioned there - Leary's as strong a forward as you'll come across he just lacks in height.

Regarding James O'Donoghue - I've never properly been sold on him - he was massively bigged up as a minor but he got injured a few times. He's got the skill alright tbf, he just needs some time to develop - knows where the posts are for sure anyway

Ah stop, Leary gets blown out of it regularly in 50/50 challenges in club games let alone county level. He's a very skillful player, but just lacks the physical attributes or pace to be effective at this level.
Stam wasn't cutting the mustard when he was with the panel I'm told...although he is a far better player than Niall O'Mahony who was on the panel last year IMO.
Curtin, if they brought him into the play more, could be a huge asset. He is very strong, a lot more than he looks I can tell you, and if he gets possession close to goal can score with either foot. Well able to bang in a goal aswell.
Its all very well naming teams on paper etc,but Kerry usually play a 2-2-2 or 1-3-2 formation with forwards..as in Galvin (& 1 other often) dropping back from half-forward with 2 upfront. That being said, I would ideally like a forward line of:
Galvin, Darran Sull, Keane, Gooch, Declan Sull, Donaghy.
Like Keane (the poster, not the player!) said, rotate Donaghy and Declan, or have Donaghy drift into the inside line when we're attacking. With even 40% possession and quick ball, that forward line will do serious damage when on song.
This is skirting around what is a far more important situation in my book...the full back line. Nobody has looked comfortable at full back really. Marc will probably have to stay there. Killian Young is obviously not at his best at corner back but Jack seems reluctant to move him out. Enright had a good game against Dublin, then was bad for a spell, but has come good in last few games again. If he stays solid, he should start. Then there is the question of Tom Sullivan returning..no idea if/when that will happen. Could certainly do with him if only to move Young to 7 where is at his best.
There's no way I want to see a Tomás, Brosnan, O'Mahony half back line...1. They won't last the 70 mins against the best half forwards (Mahony & Brosnan were wrecked after 55 mins of the All Ireland last year) and 2. I don't think any of them are particularly tight markers...plus Brosnan isn't a natural defender to begin with....
Plenty conundrums there to be sorted out yet.

PaulieC wrote: »

Played against him enough to know he's very fast and a strong guy too so while I would make the admission that he's coming up against stronger fellas at county level, you're flat out incorrect to say he's getting blown out of it in club games.




Fair enough and would agree with this but Niall was in the form of his life two years ago and deserved his callup.

Finally - without trying to be pedantic about it - can you space out your posts or something they're hard enough to read at times

In fair 50/50 challenges for possession, in the recent club semi final with Crossmaglen (think it might still be available on TG4 site) he was horsed out of it at least 70% of the time...now, if a guy can't win tough ball at club level, how the hell can we expect him to do it at county level? Its unfortunate as he has a better brain and ability than a lot of others,but I just don't believe he'll be able to have a big impact on a tight, tough c/ship game.

O'Mahony, I have played against also, and while he has good pace and is a decent finisher I wouldn't put him in the inter-county class to be honest. County c/ship is a good barometer and Stam has always stood out more for East Kerry when I've seen them anyway.

keane2097 wrote: »

I think Marc at centre back would gain us more than we would lose by him not playing at FB.

He's so wasted inside IMO. If you could only pick one player to clone to play every position on the park it would probably be him, yet we have him right where he's going to get on the least amount of ball.

He's got too much ball playing ability to be at full I agree but who would you put in at full - we need a strong, intellegent player for there and Marc is as close to filling the gap left by Moynihan that I've seen in quite some time.

Don't know who I'd be comfortable with personally.


@ciarriaithuaidh - fair enough but if you're going to judge a guy for county level based on one club game in awful conditions then grand but imo Leary's strong enough to be playing on the wing - I don't know why they haven't pulled him out there before, he's been in the corner pretty much constantly since he entered the panel - perhaps the management would agree with your assesment, who knows!

keane2097 wrote: »

Think Mahony would be less of a liability at full back than he is in the half back line.

Couldn't see O'Leary being up to the physicality of the wing in terms of either strength, or probably more importantly pace.

I must be the only one who's backing him for pace - prior to being called up to Kerry he was constantly on the wing, he's got a very good engine tbf

He's certainly fast enough though.

On Mahony he's the first person who popped into my head but he can be headless sometimes so I'd be worried about him

keane2097 wrote: »

The problem here is you're basing your opinions of Leary on what he's done for teams other than the Intercounty one. He looks average at best in terms of pace and strength when playing for Kerry. He was beaten to the ball a bunch of times on Sunday for example, or at least his man was able to keep up with him enough to dispossess him.

Valid point

It's the curse of being right the majority of the time you see

PaulieC wrote: »

I've been hearing the 'lot of mileage' line for the past 4 years at least and it still doesn't ring true.

Does it not ?

In their last two games at Croke Park they have failed to close out the game with 5 odd minutes left, and instead of going up the field and killing off games they have started playing it around the middle and end up loosing possession and the game as a result.

Now I know it's only April and you cannot read too much into fitness now, but back last September the 'lot of mileage' may have been a contributing factor to failing to kill off Dublin.
Were they flat on their feet after 65 mins of hard football ?

And in this year I think it could be a much bigger problem.

A team of Kerry's strength do not need to be at 100% for every game, they have to peak a few times a year to get over the big games and then they can drop back for the lesser ones.
For example in 2011 they did not have to be at their peak for Tipp or Limerick, but had to be for Cork.
They could then drop the intensity again for the QF v Limerick and to a lesser extent for the SF v Mayo, and then peak again when it mattered in the final.
Other teams have to be at their peak for every game they play.

Now here is the problem for Kerry
You get over Tipp and then have to peak for the Munster SF v Cork, if Kerry can win that then they can drop back again until the QF and even until the SF.
But if Kerry loose to Cork then they have three games in quick succession before they even get to the QF.
Those three games may require them to up the intensity and peak a lot more often that had to in 2011,
Teams like Tyrone, Armagh, Kildare, Dublin, Donegal may be their opposition at some stage.

If the young guys cannot cut it they you are relying more and more on the O' Se's, Galvin, Tom Sullivan's etc who have the mileage and that may be a bridge too far for them at this stage in their careers.

I known there are a lot of If's in all that but I am just outlining how 'a lot of mileage' can be a factor