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Households must pay for water meters.

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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,410 ✭✭✭bbam


    Wurly wrote: »
    A question to the people who paid the household charge... Now that you realise that the household charge is NOT going towards local services, do you now regret paying?

    You see only idiots thought it was going to pay for bins and water so only they are sorry or refused to pay it because they already paid for bin collection.
    There are more services to a society than bins and water.
    Libraries, play areas, green spaces, landscaping, tidy towns work are some straight of the top of my head. I want to see these continued in my local town for the benefit of my children and the town and our environment.

    Paying for the meters is a bit rich, if it was going to be too costly a flat charge OR pay to have a meter to prove you are using less than the flat charge costs.

    Water is expensive, we provide our own so I understand what it costs and how much maIntenance there is.

    I would have been fairer to work these charges through the general PAYE system but due to stupid election promises they didn't have the stomach for it.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,937 ✭✭✭patwicklow


    Well looks like i am going to spend a lot of time in the JOY Not and will not pay house hold scam and they can shove there meters were the sun dont shine.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,216 ✭✭✭gerryo777


    Another thread full of tax dodgers.
    I'm looking forward to people having to pay for water. There'll be no waste now lads that's for sure.

    Good trolling there, well done.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,216 ✭✭✭gerryo777


    Will you regret not paying on time when you will have to pay extra through penalties, interest and fines?

    Sure all the fines if you don't pay for a year or two would equate to, maybe only €2 a week extra.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,572 ✭✭✭DominoDub


    Love it... just watched the RTE News team Trolling Aengus O’Snodaigh printing off lots of anti-watercharge posters on the Six One:D


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 615 ✭✭✭Bishop_Donal


    Another thread full of tax dodgers.
    I'm looking forward to people having to pay for water. There'll be no waste now lads that's for sure.

    Ah jeez, they are not paying on a point of principle!!!!

    It's nothing to do with the fact that they expect the rest of society to pay for their services and carry them.;)

    I think you are being generous stopping at tax dodgers.

    One way or another it doesn't matter a damn as when the country goes tits up, everyone will end up having to pay for everything they get/want anyway.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,250 ✭✭✭lividduck


    Dr.Silly wrote: »
    I don't regret paying it.

    You will regret it however, when you pay the penalties/charges.
    As I have said before I resent it and believe it to be discriminatory, so yes i suppose i do regret paying it.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,250 ✭✭✭lividduck


    gerryo777 wrote: »
    Sure all the fines if you don't pay for a year or two would equate to, maybe only €2 a week extra.
    Nice one Gerry,nice one:D


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,216 ✭✭✭gerryo777



    It's nothing to do with the fact that they expect the rest of society to pay for their services and carry them.;)


    Who are you talking about here, the people who are exempt from the household tax and will probably be exempt from this tax too???
    You know, LA tenants, renters etc.....


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 615 ✭✭✭Bishop_Donal


    gerryo777 wrote: »
    Who are you talking about here, the people who are exempt from the household tax and will probably be exempt from this tax too???
    You know, LA tenants, renters etc.....

    I have no difference with you on the principle of the 'user pays'.

    I just don't agree that you can withhold payment of a legitimately introduced tax by a democratically elected government on the basis that you (on a unilateral basis) decide it is not fair. Particularly when you are a top earner and when it is far more in your interest to see a few flat charges that will probably never amount to more than Eur2k per annum. I'm guessing from your previous comments re: the level of income tax that you pay, that a 1% increase in the USC or top tax rate would cost you more.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 615 ✭✭✭Bishop_Donal


    gerryo777 wrote: »
    Who are you talking about here, the people who are exempt from the household tax and will probably be exempt from this tax too???
    You know, LA tenants, renters etc.....

    BTW, in respect of tenants, I am a firm believer in allowing the free market dictate.

    I jacked up the rent I charge my tenants by Eur200 to cover the introduction of the Household charge. I probably wudn't have given them a rent increase in 2012 otherwise. But if it comforts you, my tenants are actually paying it twice!!

    I got hammered and accused of trolling the last time I made this point (which is not the case). The bottom line is that a rent increase of twice the magnitude of the charge was the only way I could maintain the rent I was receiving.

    And before somebody points it out, I know that that my tenants will move on if I increase the rent above the market average (but they havn't so far so I take that as a good sign of my judgment in this regard).


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,216 ✭✭✭gerryo777


    I have no difference with you on the principle of the 'user pays'.

    I just don't agree that you can withhold payment of a legitimately introduced tax by a democratically elected government on the basis that you (on a unilateral basis) decide it is not fair. Particularly when you are a top earner and when it is far more in your interest to see a few flat charges that will probably never amount to more than Eur2k per annum. I'm guessing from your previous comments re: the level of income tax that you pay, that a 1% increase in the USC or top tax rate would cost you more.

    But the point has to be made clear to the government that discriminating against homeowners with these taxes is not on.

    I have tackled my local TD twice about this.

    I would certainly be more inclined to pay a water tax because I have control over how much it will cost me!

    The household tax just isn't fair or just because a lot of people who cost this country a lot of money to house get off scot free. That's not right!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,653 ✭✭✭Ghandee


    Bullseye, the Irish taxpayer has not paid one red cent of the Bank bailout.

    It has been paid for entirely by increased ECB borrowings and promissory notes to date.

    On the other hand the Irish taxpayer continues to require support to meet our day to day expenditure (arising out of embedded under-taxation and excessive expenditure).

    Strip out the Bank bailout costs & then lets accept that (those excluded) the Irish taxpayer has to ultimately pay his own way. If we cud get this basic agreed, it wud represent a substantial maturing of the Irish left wing alliance.


    The ECB have been caught red handed virtually admitting that we've been sacrificed for Europe Donal.

    Have a look here and here :confused:


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,965 ✭✭✭laoch na mona


    they have no shame
    paying for the privilege of paying


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,641 ✭✭✭bgrizzley


    i hope Phil is paid up on his water charges in the Algarve.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,025 ✭✭✭Am Chile


    Another Bias unfair and unbalanced frontline episode, 3 on their panel for water charges and only 1 against water charges,same for the select participants in the audience they only had one person in the whole audience against water charges.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,944 ✭✭✭fedor.2.


    Another thread full of tax dodgers.
    I'm looking forward to people having to pay for water. There'll be no waste now lads that's for sure.



    Your username promised so much.....................until you stared posting, you big dope


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,731 ✭✭✭Bullseye1


    Am Chile wrote: »
    Another Bias unfair and unbalanced frontline episode, 3 on their panel for water charges and only 1 against water charges,same for the select participants in the audience they only had one person in the whole audience against water charges.

    It was probably full of GPA people. :p


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 8,224 ✭✭✭Going Forward


    An interesting paper on the accuracy etc. of water meters.

    One interesting point is that in areas prone to limescale, some meters will over-register in the region of 25%.

    So anyone unfortunate enough to already have limescale, instead of having a reduced fee for lower quality water, could end up paying even more!

    http://www.ita.upv.es/idi/descargaarticulo.php?id=54


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 22,559 ✭✭✭✭AnonoBoy


    I'm sure Calgon will come into this somehow.

    Washing Machines (and water meters) live longer with Calgon!


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  • Registered Users Posts: 866 ✭✭✭Palytoxin


    Is there a charge if you have your own well?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,390 ✭✭✭IM0


    Palytoxin wrote: »
    Is there a charge if you have your own well?

    ESPECIALLY
    if you have your own well


  • Registered Users Posts: 882 ✭✭✭ygolometsipe


    I find it highly suspicious that this Spanish study is not in Spanish!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 550 ✭✭✭earpiece


    AnonoBoy wrote: »
    I'm sure Calgon will come into this somehow.

    Washing Machines (and water meters) live longer with Calgon!

    But people don't!!!!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,084 ✭✭✭oppenheimer1


    Every measuring device drifts out of calibration over time. Obvious answer here is to ensure your meter is re-calibrated at regular intervals.


  • Registered Users Posts: 19,473 ✭✭✭✭Super-Rush


    Threads merged.


  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 90,781 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    This is spot on . When people get a bill for €200 euro they will think it could have being a lot worse .
    Customers of South West Water on benefits can apply to have their bill capped at £517 a year ( € 626 )

    http://www.southwestwater.co.uk/index.cfm?articleid=1422
    , if you meet the following conditions.

    1. Your supply is metered

    2. The person who pays the water bill or someone else in your household receives benefit or tax credit

    3. There are either:
    three or more children under the age of 19 living in the household for whom the person receiving the above benefit also claims Child Benefit; or
    you or someone living in your household has a medical condition which causes extra water to be used.

    This year, the reduced charges for the WaterSure scheme are
    £217 for water and £300 for sewerage services for
    the period 1 April 2011 to 31 March 2012


    Hang on that said March and it's now April ...

    http://www.southwestwater.co.uk/index.cfm?articleid=9165
    The average annual household bill for water and sewerage in the region is expected to increase by 4.7 % to £543. (€ 657)




    Which raises another question
    When are they going to try billing for sewage here ?


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,568 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/frontpage/2012/0417/1224314823981.html
    Households face €39 charge for 20 years on water meters.

    HOUSEHOLDS WILL pay an average of €39 per annum over 20 years to cover the cost of the loan from the National Pension Reserve Fund to install water meters in one million Irish homes.

    Government sources confirmed yesterday the cost per household, based on the size of the NPRF loan, would work out at about €780, but that the cost would be levied as a standing charge over a period of two decades, in much the same way as such charges are already imposed by other utilities such as the ESB and Bord Gáis.

    However, it was stressed that the ultimate decision on the size of the annual standing charge would be a decision for the Commission for Energy Regulation, which will be dealing with the new water metering service.

    It will not be in a position to make any deliberation until the new water company had begun its operations.

    Taoiseach Enda Kenny confirmed yesterday that householders would pay for the cost of the meters but that the cost would not be an upfront one. Charges are to become operable in early 2014.

    “Obviously when you provide water meters somebody has to pay for them. We’ve made absolutely no decision about this. Any charge will . . . be the absolute minimum because of the difficulties that are involved here,” Mr Kenny said.

    The clarification came ahead of today’s Cabinet meeting, where Minister for the Environment Phil Hogan will bring a memo setting out an implementation plan for installing water meters nationwide in time for water charges to be introduced in early 2014.

    He will also bring proposals to set up the new utility company, Irish Water, on a transitional basis. It will replace the functions currently performed by 34 local authorities.

    In the previous 24 hours the Government had struggled to clear up confusion surrounding the pricing model. Mr Kenny had said that households would have to pay for meters but their installation would be free.

    However, Tánaiste Eamon Gilmore had said that no decision had been made on how water meters had to be paid for, while the Department of the Environment had said the cost of buying and installing meters would have to be paid for.

    The Taoiseach said yesterday that as many as 2,000 jobs would be created through the installation of water meters in the State. He also set out what will be a key plank of the Government’s strategy in its efforts to persuade the public of the need for efficient water management systems by saying “water was one of the most precious commodities”.

    Government sources said last night that, in general, no charge would be applied until water meters were installed. However, it is unlikely that all one million homes will have meters in place by the end of next year.

    The sources said households that have no meters installed will pay an “assessed charge” based on the metered charges paid by comparable metered properties. This system will be applied to the approximately 350,000 households that will not be metered because it would be too costly or too logistically difficult.

    Minister for Finance Michael Noonan said no formal decision had been taken yet over who would take over the running of the State’s water and that it would be “premature” to be speculating what costs would be involved for consumers.

    “I see meters as the friend of the householder and friend of business, as they’ll prevent people from paying for water that’s wasted,” he said.

    Fianna Fáil environment spokesman Niall Collins described the handling of water metering as the “latest fiasco” at the Department of the Environment.

    “The lack of any clear answer from Ministers over the last 24 hours on the question of whether or not households will be asked to pay for a water meter proves one thing: this Government has no meaningful strategy on water reform.”

    “Already we are seeing worrying similarities with the communications disaster that surrounded the household charge,” he said.

    Sinn Féin’s Aengus Ó Snodaigh and Brian Stanley criticised the handling of the issue, as well as the potential costs for householders. The party is opposed to the charge.

    €39 x 20 = €780

    ...For a meter that in reality if you bought it in a shop might vary in under €250 or less?
    Rip-off Ireland yet again - only this time state sponsored?

    And IF my reading is right - thats the installation cost?
    We haven't been told the additional never ending 'rental fee' also for this meter?


  • Registered Users Posts: 628 ✭✭✭Matt Bauer


    I support the water charge because water is a valuable resource that needs to be carefully managed and protected. However, anyone receiving sub-par water should be exempt from paying the new water charge. At least until it's addressed.

    For example, in Germany you pay for water (and sewage as well!), but you get top quality drinking water that is just as good as bottled water. Ends up saving money because there is no need to buy bottled water, and people don't waste water. The average urban domestic water and sewage bill there is €32 combined, which is €384 per year. For that you get incredibly clean water, which is unbelievably often better than bottled water, and top notch sewage treatment. In other countries, like Austria, you also get top quality water and the cost is significantly cheaper. So I think we should pay less here.

    I am however against the household charge. But the water charge is a good thing, as long as it leads to better quality better managed water. It's also a fair charge, as long as it is kept reasonable, as providing water is not free. Last but not least, water should not be privatised.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,541 ✭✭✭Smidge


    I no longer live in the big shmoke but down the country. If you take a bath in my house it is the only time in your life that you will get out dirtier than you got in.
    Having said that, the water in my mothers house in the city sticks of chemicals, so much so that it would singe your nostril hair. No winners there then.


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