Do private schools have a place in society?

steddyeddy · 16-04-2012 10:26pm #1

I dont think they do. Im not talking about the cost to the system, I think they promote elitisim, cronyisim and a false sense of entitlement in this society. It gives an unfair advantage to people who usually already are lucky enough to not be born into poverty. I dont get why one persons education should be more important than anothers.

Logical Fallacy · 16-04-2012 10:28pm

I absolutely think they do.

The second I hear someone went to a private school it explains why they are such a monumental dickhead.

Born to Die · 16-04-2012 10:28pm

Watch Billy Bragg on 10 o clock live from last week. Great argument against it in England.

amacca · 16-04-2012 10:28pm

oh jesus not this again.................

cruais · 16-04-2012 10:30pm

I went to a private school. Yes, there were complete pretentious w@nkers in my year, but on the other hand there were lovely girls, who were normal and didn't think they were a step above anyone else.

I don't think it's unfair to have private and public schooling. It's a choice that's made to send your son / daughter there.

You will get ****e and fantastic teachers in both schools and it's really up to the individual student to either study or act the maggot. Doesnt matter whether it's public or private.

GarIT · 16-04-2012 10:31pm

Because they can pay for it. Things get better the more you pay. If they didn't there would be no need for money. If we got rid of private schools we would be heading towards Communism there.

IM0 · 16-04-2012 10:33pm

steddyeddy wrote: »

I dont think they do. Im not talking about the cost to the system, I think they promote elitisim, cronyisim and a false sense of entitlement in this society. It gives an unfair advantage to people who usually already are lucky enough to not be born into poverty. I dont get why one persons education should be more important than anothers.

because they pay for it. the point. you missed it.

Dravokivich · 16-04-2012 10:34pm

One should never under any circumstance lower one's social standing by putting one's offspring into environment detrimental to their chances of an honest and proper eductaion as a result of having to mix with those unlucky to not have been born into the priviledged echelons of society.

Mickey Dazzler · 16-04-2012 10:34pm

There always has and always will be the haves and the have nots in society. It is naive to think that that will ever change.

I can assure you that if you came from money you would be more than pleased with the way things work.

IM0 · 16-04-2012 10:35pm

GarIT wrote: »

Because they can pay for it. Things get better the more you pay. If they didn't there would be no need for money. If we got rid of private schools we would be heading towards Communism there.

Id rather communism than 'democracy' tbh. I think

General Relativity · 16-04-2012 10:35pm

Logical Fallacy wrote: »

I absolutely think they do.

The second I hear someone went to a private school it explains why they are such a monumental dickhead.

Logical Fallacy

:pac:

Princess Peach · 16-04-2012 10:36pm

Of course they have a place! Its simple economics.

If people are stupid enough to want to pay for some things, people should provide them with it.

Eathrin · 16-04-2012 10:36pm

As somebody who goes to a public school, I could not be more delighted that I don't have to suffer listening to spoilt teens that feel they can stroll through life on Daddy's money.
Let them have their private schools, and let them believe that they are getting a better education.

IM0 · 16-04-2012 10:37pm

Dravokivich wrote: »

One should never under any circumstance lower one's social standing by putting one's offspring into environment detrimental to their chances of an honest and proper eductaion as a result of having to mix with those unlucky to not have been born into the priviledged echelons of society.

:mad:
stop plaigarising from the private school manual of life

iguana · 16-04-2012 10:37pm

Yes they do. I don't want my children's education based on the current national curriculum as I don't think it's even remotely a good or rounded education. And I don't want them learning that they should learn for the sake of exams, I want them to learn to love learning for it's own sake. I don't want them learning religion outside of it's place in history and politics. No public schools offer the education I want my children to have so I would either have to home educate or send them to a private Montessori. So we're doing the latter.

Naomi00 · 16-04-2012 10:37pm

Trenton Oldfield is that you?

44leto · 16-04-2012 10:39pm

If I had the money I would send my kids to them to enjoy the benefits of cronyism, elitism and a better education and future.

Logical Fallacy · 16-04-2012 10:39pm

General Relativity wrote: »

:pac:

When posting in AH i normally like my style to reside on the "example" side of things.:D

steddyeddy · 16-04-2012 10:39pm

GarIT wrote: »

Because they can pay for it. Things get better the more you pay. If they didn't there would be no need for money. If we got rid of private schools we would be heading towards Communism there.

I disagree. Quality of education should not depend on how lucky a child is to be born into priveleged circumstances. The child who benifits from private education does not do so because of any merit on his or her part and thus I dont think its a communist principle to say that reward should be based on merit and not luck.

steddyeddy · 16-04-2012 10:41pm

IM0 wrote: »

because they pay for it. the point. you missed it.

I take it if I earn more money than you I should also recieve better medication and or treatment in hospital?

WHIP IT! · 16-04-2012 10:41pm

Eathrin wrote: »

As somebody who goes to a public school, I could not be more delighted that I don't have to suffer listening to spoilt teens that feel they can stroll through life on Daddy's money.
Let them have their private schools, and let them believe that they are getting a better education.

Bitter much?

Have you ever actually visited a private school? Take the chip of your shoulder, t'wil only slow you down in life...

Grayson · 16-04-2012 10:42pm

I went to a private school. My parents were definitely working class. The fees were minimal so it wasn't an issue. Plus there was an entrance exam to get in. So you couldn't just get in based on how much your parents were willing to pay.

Grayson · 16-04-2012 10:43pm

steddyeddy wrote: »

I take it if I earn more money than you I should also recieve better medication and or treatment in hospital?

maybe a comfier bed.

steddyeddy · 16-04-2012 10:43pm

Mickey Dazzler wrote: »

There always has and always will be the haves and the have nots in society. It is naive to think that that will ever change.

I can assure you that if you came from money you would be more than pleased with the way things work.

I probraly would however Im in the lucky position to have a career where I can make a lot of money. When I have kids I dont think it should be right to send them to private shcool. I got my degree after public shcool and so can anyone else.

Odats · 16-04-2012 10:43pm

They have been around for many years and I cannot see them going anytime soon.

You can be educated in a E20,000 a year boarding school or a state funded school that wouldn't have the best reputation and come out with the same results.

Private schools are good for the old boys club mentality.

steddyeddy · 16-04-2012 10:45pm

iguana wrote: »

Yes they do. I don't want my children's education based on the current national curriculum as I don't think it's even remotely a good or rounded education. And I don't want them learning that they should learn for the sake of exams, I want them to learn to love learning for it's own sake. I don't want them learning religion outside of it's place in history and politics. No public schools offer the education I want my children to have so I would either have to home educate or send them to a private Montessori. So we're doing the latter.

If I earn more money than you at some point in my life should my extra money entitle my kids (who didnt nothing to earn special treatment) to better healthcare than yours?

Logical Fallacy · 16-04-2012 10:45pm

steddyeddy wrote: »

I probraly would however Im in the lucky position to have a career where I can make a lot of money. When I have kids I dont think it should be right to send them to private shcool. I got my degree after public shcool and so can anyone else.

Yeah, but if you had the cash to send your kids to a private school, make connections for life, have better teachers and facilities you'd be an idiot not to I have to say.

Retrovertigo · 16-04-2012 10:45pm

Logical Fallacy wrote: »

I absolutely think they do.

The second I hear someone went to a private school it explains why they are such a monumental dickhead.

Awwwww. Jealous are we? Need a hug?

I went to both public and private schools and there is an equal amount of dickheads in both.

steddyeddy · 16-04-2012 10:47pm

Grayson wrote: »

I went to a private school. My parents were definitely working class. The fees were minimal so it wasn't an issue. Plus there was an entrance exam to get in. So you couldn't just get in based on how much your parents were willing to pay.

True there are a lot of private shcools like that but there are many that are elitest and look at a lot more than entrance exams and fees.

steddyeddy · 16-04-2012 10:48pm

Logical Fallacy wrote: »

Yeah, but if you had the cash to send your kids to a private school, make connections for life, have better teachers and facilities you'd be an idiot not to I have to say.

Ive done that without privelige and as a result developed life skills that wouldnt have been afforded to me if I got everything handed to me on a plate.

Logical Fallacy · 16-04-2012 10:49pm

Retrovertigo wrote: »

Awwwww. Jealous are we? Need a hug?

I went to both public and private schools and there is an equal amount of dickheads in both.

Nope, not at all. I'm am pulling the piss.

I think your public/private education failed teaching you to spot hyperbole.

iguana · 16-04-2012 10:53pm

steddyeddy wrote: »

If I earn more money than you at some point in my life should my extra money entitle my kids (who didnt nothing to earn special treatment) to better healthcare than yours?

If you pay for it and take yourself out of the public healthcare system then what's the problem. I've paid for private medical treatment when it's suited me. It's pulled me off public waiting lists so actually speeds things up for those who have no choice but to stay on the list. Try put it this way. If the public healthcare system was practising incorrect procedures would you send your children to those hospitals?

Huge sections of the national curriculum are simplified to the point of being inaccurate and knowing that, there is no way on earth I plan on sending my children to have an 'education' that they will later have to unlearn. Additionally 95% of schools are run by the church and the others still have to provide 'ethical and moral' education. A massive waste of their school time and not something anyone has a business teaching my children but me and my husband.

Superbus · 16-04-2012 10:53pm

They do.

Unfortunately, when someone who attended one is lumped with crass generalisations and assumptions about their supposed wealth it's not worth it at all. Many parents who send their children to private schools do so at great sacrifice, as they see getting as good an education as possible as something worth putting a price on. Only a small minority, from my experience, come from what one would deem particularly wealthy backgrounds.

Further to that, there's the whole business of how they actually cost the state less per student than a public school, which should always be factored in to this debate. Something like €8,000 compared to €4,000 IIRC.

Anyway, I'll leave ye all to rant about croneyism and inequality, this is probably falling on deaf ears.

Logical Fallacy · 16-04-2012 10:54pm

steddyeddy wrote: »

Ive done that without privelige and as a result developed life skills that wouldnt have been afforded to me if I got everything handed to me on a plate.

Whether everything is handed to your kids on a plate has little to do with where they go to school, their class or the cash their parents have.

I know people who had very rich parents who always worked for their money and no it's value. I know people who still live at home, don't pay rent and mammy makes there dinner and they are not a rich family.

admiralofthefleet · 16-04-2012 10:55pm

not when they recieve public money

Owen_S · 16-04-2012 10:57pm

admiralofthefleet wrote: »

not when they recieve public money

Superbus wrote: »

They do.

Unfortunately, when someone who attended one is lumped with crass generalisations and assumptions about their supposed wealth it's not worth it at all. Many parents who send their children to private schools do so at great sacrifice, as they see getting as good an education as possible as something worth putting a price on. Only a small minority, from my experience, come from what one would deem particularly wealthy backgrounds.

Further to that, there's the whole business of how they actually cost the state less per student than a public school, which should always be factored in to this debate. Something like €8,000 compared to €4,000 IIRC.

Anyway, I'll leave ye all to rant about croneyism and inequality, this is probably falling on deaf ears.

A couple of posts above.

TeddyTedson · 16-04-2012 10:58pm

Boarding schools provide a great education and If you have the money I'd recommend sending your kids to one.

tatumkelly · 16-04-2012 10:58pm

Wow plenty of sweeping generalisations in this thread :rolleyes:

Not everyone goes to private school because their parents think they are 'too good' or 'elite' for the public schools. :rolleyes:

Everyone has the right to be educated in a school unpinned by the ethos of their particular religion. It just so happens in the the case of the Church of Ireland, most of those schools are private.

I didn't go to boarding school because mummy and daddy had so much money they didn't know what to do with it, I went because they wanted me to be educated with the beliefs and values of the COI, and to have the opportunity to meet people with similar beliefs.

My parents struggled, and went without, in order for this to happen. By removing state funding for private schools in minority groups, the government will force numerous schools to close, hence withdrawing the fundamental right to be educated within the particular ethos of your religion.

iguana · 16-04-2012 10:59pm

admiralofthefleet wrote: »

not when they recieve public money

The school I plan on using receives no public money as it does not teach the national curriculum and is non-denominational. It's a very basic school, consisting of 3 hired rooms, 4-6 staff and about 30-40 pupils in the whole school. The parents of the students are the board of management and the fees are designed to be just enough to pay the staff, room hire, insurance, utilities, equipment, contingency fund etc.

RichieC · 16-04-2012 11:01pm

Of course they do.

steddyeddy · 16-04-2012 11:01pm

iguana wrote: »

If you pay for it and take yourself out of the public healthcare system then what's the problem. I've paid for private medical treatment when it's suited me. It's pulled me off public waiting lists so actually speeds things up for those who have no choice but to stay on the list. Try put it this way. If the public healthcare system was practising incorrect procedures would you send your children to those hospitals?

Huge sections of the national curriculum are simplified to the point of being inaccurate and knowing that, there is no way on earth I plan on sending my children to have an 'education' that they will later have to unlearn. Additionally 95% of schools are run by the church and the others still have to provide 'ethical and moral' education. A massive waste of their school time and not something anyone has a business teaching my children but me and my husband.

Im not talking about me and you. Im talking about children who through no fault of their own are born into familes of varying degrees of wealth. If I was more affluent than you why should your children be punished because of it? Should money of the parents determine the qaulity of healthcare of one child over another.

Rocket19 · 16-04-2012 11:03pm

Hmm, there's some very ignorant attitudes here.
For the record, not everyone who goes to a private school is a spoiled brat smothered in Daddy's money. Just because a family can afford/choose to send their kid to a private school, doesn't make them a "d*ckhead" or automatically make the kid a brat.

Sure, you get some ****, mostly ones of the self-entitled kind, but I bet in some inner-city schools (extreme example), you're gonna get some scumbags. Point being, you're going to get problematic kinds of people from any walk of life. Be that a junkie knacker or a posh tw*t.

When I was in first year of college, I actually had to ditch one of my 'friends' because he just would NOT let go of the fact I went to a private school. Always slagging me about it, cajoling me because my family keeps horses, etc. He was always like "oh I bet you look down on me because my Dad is a taxi driver". "Um...no I don't, you're an *sshole".

Do you guys have the same attitude towards private healthcare?

Grayson · 16-04-2012 11:03pm

[PHP][/PHP]

steddyeddy wrote: »

True there are a lot of private shcools like that but there are many that are elitest and look at a lot more than entrance exams and fees.

I agree. There's a couple of schools I know of that are full of rich entitled dickheads.
But like you said, not all private schools are like that. A lot of boarding schools take day pupils too. And the fees for them are quite small, so local kids from normal backgrounds can go to them.

There are people here tarring every private school with the same brush. There's a lot of variation out there.

steddyeddy · 16-04-2012 11:04pm

Logical Fallacy wrote: »

Whether everything is handed to your kids on a plate has little to do with where they go to school, their class or the cash their parents have.

I know people who had very rich parents who always worked for their money and no it's value. I know people who still live at home, don't pay rent and mammy makes there dinner and they are not a rich family.

Sorry to disagree but I think it does.

admiralofthefleet · 16-04-2012 11:05pm

iguana wrote: »

The school I plan on using receives no public money as it does not teach the national curriculum and is non-denominational. It's a very basic school, consisting of 3 hired rooms, 4-6 staff and about 30-40 pupils in the whole school. The parents of the students are the board of management and the fees are designed to be just enough to pay the staff, room hire, insurance, utilities, equipment, contingency fund etc.

like myself, im planning to send my son to an educate together. but the likes of blackrock college recieving money when ordinary people cant send their children there annoys me. gonzaga dont even allow students from the northside of dublin to enrol

Grayson · 16-04-2012 11:05pm

steddyeddy wrote: »

Im not talking about me and you. Im talking about children who through no fault of their own are born into familes of varying degrees of wealth. If I was more affluent than you why should your children be punished because of it? Should money of the parents determine the qaulity of healthcare of one child over another.

During the time I was in private school one or other of my parents were unemployed. At one point my mother worked two jobs. At another point by father had to abroad for work. I went to a private school and got probably the best education that was available in our county.

ted1 · 16-04-2012 11:06pm

steddyeddy wrote: »

I take it if I earn more money than you I should also recieve better medication and or treatment in hospital?

Yes, if your willing to pay for it.

Dudess · 16-04-2012 11:10pm

If people want to shell out a fortune for a perceived superior education, let them I guess.

oppenheimer1 · 16-04-2012 11:10pm

Yes there is a place in society for private schools. If parents want to further subsidise their childrens education then why would I stop them? It they were in the state sector they would cost the taxpayer even more.

Its not that we should be bemoaning these rich children and their better education. We should be complaining that the state sector isn't as good and trying to improve it until there is no difference.

ted1 · 16-04-2012 11:12pm

admiralofthefleet wrote: »

like myself, im planning to send my son to an educate together. but the likes of blackrock college recieving money when ordinary people cant send their children there annoys me. gonzaga dont even allow students from the northside of dublin to enrol

Your point is stupid. They recieve the same capital allowance per student. If you can't afford to pay the extra money to cover additional teachers and facilities then of course you shouldn't be allowed in.

You need to remove the chip from your shoulder.

iguana · 16-04-2012 11:13pm

admiralofthefleet wrote: »

but the likes of blackrock college recieving money when ordinary people cant send their children there annoys me. gonzaga dont even allow students from the northside of dublin to enrol

Yeah I agree that is a problem. Imo, private schools should ideally be independent. It's quite like how hospital consultants used to be able to double job in a way that allowed them to be private some days a week while still taking a full-time public salary. And they would encourage patients to leap frog the public system by having an initial appointment as a private patient and then get seen faster publicly after that. I've no problem with people choosing private services instead of public, be that an education or medical treatment. But choose one of or the other instead of paying for extra while creaming off the system.

Do private schools have a place in society?

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