Who thinks Sean Quinn is a great businessman now?

gigino · 18-12-2011 1:23pm

Callipo wrote: »

Sorry but he was a greedy fuk who had more than enough ......

You could have said the same about him 25 years ago but if he had more than enough then + did not expand, he would not have created thousands of jobs and paid billions in tax over the last few decades.

He was misled by Fitzpatrick / Anglo + the bankers, that was his downfall.

Liam Byrne · 18-12-2011 1:44pm

gigino wrote: »

Callipo wrote: »

Sorry but he was a greedy fuk who had more than enough ......

You could have said the same about him 25 years ago but if he had more than enough then + did not expand, he would not have created thousands of jobs and paid billions in tax over the last few decades.

He was misled by Fitzpatrick / Anglo + the bankers, that was his downfall.

"Billions" in tax? Seriously ?

Can you back that up with references or facts ?

And even if he did (which I doubt) he's undoing any good by being a devious pest now by trying to renege on his debts and hide his assets.

We were misled by Bertie (or rather some of you were) - does that mean that you can pull the same stunts and get everyone else to pay the debts that you signed up for ?

gigino · 18-12-2011 5:47pm

Liam Byrne wrote: »

"Billions" in tax? Seriously ?

some journalist had it worked out in the papers a few months ago. When you think of all the VAT his firms collected, all the corporation tax they paid, all the PRSI and income tax his firms collected from their thousands of employees, all the vat his employees paid, all the stamp duty and Capital acquisitions tax and capital gains tax and VRT and other taxes his companies paid.....shure the border counties like Cavan would have folded only for him. And then Fitzpatrick the banker rings him + sells him part of the bank, that it would be a great investment ....it probably would have been had the public service regulator regulated it properly;)

Gophur · 18-12-2011 5:55pm

Quinn, a couple of years back, promised to pay back every cent he owed.

Since then he has tried everything possible to weasel out of paying anything. He's a man without morals and without honour.

How about he repay the €400 million he took from his companies for his five children? Not a hope in hell.

The Quinns were only interested in the profits, not the losses.

gigino · 18-12-2011 6:02pm

Gophur wrote: »

How about he repay the €400 million he took from his companies for his five children?

was it taxable income, which they paid income tax etc on ? Or was it a loan ? Big difference.

Would you pay back income from your employer you got a year or 2 ago if it now went bust ? If so, should'nt public servants pay back some of the wages they got a few years ago ? Thats your argument

ABEasy · 18-12-2011 6:12pm

gigino wrote: »

Liam Byrne wrote: »

"Billions" in tax? Seriously ?

some journalist had it worked out in the papers a few months ago. When you think of all the VAT his firms collected, all the corporation tax they paid, all the PRSI and income tax his firms collected from their thousands of employees, all the vat his employees paid, all the stamp duty and Capital acquisitions tax and capital gains tax and VRT and other taxes his companies paid.....shure the border counties like Cavan would have folded only for him. And then Fitzpatrick the banker rings him + sells him part of the bank, that it would be a great investment ....it probably would have been had the public service regulator regulated it properly;)

VAT, whilst collected by Quinns companies, was not a tax paid by his companies, it was paid by his companies customers. Likewise income tax & EE PRSI was paid by his employees not his companies. Cannot see how he would pay CAT, there is no VRT on commercial vehicles (except nominal fee). Therefore the only taxes the Quinns companies would have paid are CT, CGT & Stamp Duty (the later two would be one off and probably minimal considering the levels we are talking here). The idea you are suggesting he paid billons in tax is laughable and as is your statement that he should get credit for the VAT his employees paid!

The fact is that Quinns exports were minimal, his business's were based on domestic demand, therefore he did not create wealth for the country. The domestic demand means that if he didn't supply to meet the demand, someone else would have creating identical employment, etc. He gambled and lost and is now showing his true character now by trying to wheasel his way out of his obligations and screw us the taxpayers in the process. People who defend this fella make me sick!

gigino · 18-12-2011 6:18pm

obviously you never added up all the taxes he, his family, his companies and his employees paid. Or know of the economic wasteland the border counties were in the 70's. He deserves some credit for all the jobs he created. At least he tried. For a few decades there was a very successful company in Ireland, paying lots of tax + employing people. He branched in to rew industries + was successful in them ...bottle making, radiator making, insulation, hotel etc.
In Ireland we knock the entrepreneur though.
The next generation may as well emigrate.

ABEasy · 18-12-2011 6:34pm

gigino wrote: »

obviously you never added up all the taxes he, his family, his companies and his employees paid. Or know of the economic wasteland the border counties were in the 70's. He deserves some credit for all the jobs he created. At least he tried. For a few decades there was a very successful company in Ireland, paying lots of tax + employing people. He branched in to rew industries + was successful in them ...bottle making, radiator making, insulation, hotel etc.
In Ireland we knock the entrepreneur though.
The next generation may as well emigrate.

No I haven't calculated what taxes he paid and never said I did. However you claim he paid 'billions' in taxes, any back up for this or are you just talking out of your arse. And how does what his employees paid got to do with this? As previously stated the employment he 'created' would have been created by someone else in his absence because his business was based on domestic demand. I'm not knocking an entrepreneur, I'm knocking a wheasel who has cost the state and it's taxpayers billions, whilst he looks after number 1.

Liam Byrne · 18-12-2011 6:39pm

In Ireland we knock the entrepreneur though.
The next generation may as well emigrate.

Sigh! :rolleyes:

We rightly knock those who refuse to pay THEIR bills and try to con the rest of us into paying them.

If Quinn honoured his debts there would be no knocking.

But no, the prick does everything in his power to keep what isn't his.

gigino · 18-12-2011 7:25pm

ABEasy wrote: »

his business was based on domestic demand.

including his factory in England, which he took profits out of to bering back to Ireland ?

The Slieve Russell only accepted tourists from the 26 counties ?

He created thousands more jobs than the entire public service created in their lifetime.

dr.bollocko · 18-12-2011 7:27pm

mod: gigino banned.
Constantly thread spoiling with any excuse to bash the public sector.

Liam Byrne · 18-12-2011 7:32pm

gigino wrote: »

ABEasy wrote: »

his business was based on domestic demand.

including his factory in England, which he took profits out of to bering back to Ireland ?

The Slieve Russell only accepted tourists from the 26 counties ?

He created thousands more jobs than the entire public service created in their lifetime.

If you want to post details of what he brought in, and then deduct what his current con-artist actions are costing us, I would strongly suspect that we still lose.

I know my insurance has gone up because of him despite my never having considered his operation for cover.

And that's not even taking into account that had someone ethical and decent set up (and they may well have considered it but decided against it given his connections) they could have created just as many jobs, made just as much income, except that they wouldn't have landed ordinary people with the bill for their egotistic bull**** mansion.

€3 millions would BUILD a fabulous house, let alone redecorate one in the style that a deluded self-important prat thinks he's somehow entitled to but cannot afford.

Callipo · 18-12-2011 9:37pm

gigino wrote: »

You could have said the same about him 25 years ago but if he had more than enough then + did not expand, he would not have created thousands of jobs and paid billions in tax over the last few decades.

He was misled by Fitzpatrick / Anglo + the bankers, that was his downfall.

gigino wrote: »

<snip>. And then Fitzpatrick the banker rings him + sells him part of the bank, that it would be a great investment ....it probably would have been had the public service regulator regulated it properly

The dogs on the street know at this stage that SQ was trying to buy Anglo. Shure he'd have his own bank then :rolleyes:

No one had to ring him to tell him what a good investment Anglo was. He and most other people knew it was a good investment. Which at the times it did seem to be.

When people in the "know" started to realise what was coming (Deposits started leaving a lot of the banks before the rest of us plebes knew) and made safe their positions, they fuked up the plan for a lot of Ireland Elite.

Then a lot of powerful mobiles started ringing and plans were put in place to save the arses of the elite in Ireland. Sadly the plan to save SQ's ass failed as the share price tumbled, even with the golden circles intervention.

After that the Govermnent took over..... to save what they could for the Elite.

Don't be under any illusion. SQ will be OK at the end of the day. He won't be joining the dole Q any time soon.

James ngt · 18-12-2011 11:37pm

ABEasy wrote: »

VAT, whilst collected by Quinns companies, was not a tax paid by his companies, it was paid by his companies customers. Likewise income tax & EE PRSI was paid by his employees not his companies. Cannot see how he would pay CAT, there is no VRT on commercial vehicles (except nominal fee). Therefore the only taxes the Quinns companies would have paid are CT, CGT & Stamp Duty (the later two would be one off and probably minimal considering the levels we are talking here). The idea you are suggesting he paid billons in tax is laughable and as is your statement that he should get credit for the VAT his employees paid!

The fact is that Quinns exports were minimal, his business's were based on domestic demand, therefore he did not create wealth for the country. The domestic demand means that if he didn't supply to meet the demand, someone else would have creating identical employment, etc. He gambled and lost and is now showing his true character now by trying to wheasel his way out of his obligations and screw us the taxpayers in the process. People who defend this fella make me sick!

Wrong, Wrong and Wrong. Quinns companies have paid 1.3 BILLION to the Irish state. Wages bill is 247 million annually, thats a lot of saved unemployment benefits. 83% of Quinns companies products are export, so his business's were not domestic demand, and identical employment would therefore not have been created elsewhere, dont know where you got that one, Finally companies filed their returns this week, read them before posting inaccurate comments. I Dont like what the man and his family are doing now but thats not a reason to make stuff up.

Liam Byrne · 18-12-2011 11:48pm

I Dont like what the man and his family are doing now but thats not a reason to make stuff up.

The Quinn family seem ok with making stuff up.

James ngt · 18-12-2011 11:52pm

Liam Byrne wrote: »

The Quinn family seem ok with making stuff up.

If the Quinn family jumped in a river would you?

Liam Byrne · 19-12-2011 12:27am

James ngt wrote: »

Liam Byrne wrote: »

The Quinn family seem ok with making stuff up.

If the Quinn family jumped in a river would you?

No, but we'd never be that lucky

4Sheets · 19-12-2011 12:55am

I dont know the full facts I might read the thread tomorrow but what I do know is the sean quinn started with nothing and worked his hole off to create some of irelands most successful business's..ok maybe he got involved in some dodgy business deals in which case he should tried in a court of law and be prosecuted...this man had an amazing legacy built on a lifetime of achievement..its sad that he should be chased into the gutter just because he somehow got involved with the crooks in anglo..thats my opinion based on interviews i ve watched with the man and my acknowledgment that he was a great businessman if not now then certainly he has being for the last 30 years!

Pdfile · 19-12-2011 1:18am

Howjoe1 wrote: »

There are bankrupt ordinary citizens who struggle to put food on the table for their children.

if you fail to go to school, get when the gettings good then hold onto it, thats you're problem...

sh*t, most of the rich people i know grew up in a **** background and do Extremely well for themselfs during the good times... even now, their leaving college and jumping straight into a job, though mostly going aborad... still its better then getting the 100 euro or whatever a week off the dole.

Im sorry but i can't stand the symthpatetic approach to making someone feel bad for being the best at what everyone else was doing.

We're all guilty but nobody will stand accountable.

K-9 · 19-12-2011 2:03am

4Sheets wrote: »

I dont know the full facts I might read the thread tomorrow but what I do know is the sean quinn started with nothing and worked his hole off to create some of irelands most successful business's..ok maybe he got involved in some dodgy business deals in which case he should tried in a court of law and be prosecuted...this man had an amazing legacy built on a lifetime of achievement..its sad that he should be chased into the gutter just because he somehow got involved with the crooks in anglo..thats my opinion based on interviews i ve watched with the man and my acknowledgment that he was a great businessman if not now then certainly he has being for the last 30 years!

He got involved in things he didn't know anything about. Whether that was not listening to advisors or believing his own PR I don't know.

He had the biggest single loss in Contracts for Difference in the world, not Ireland, not Europe, the world.

The likes of Soros and Bufet had bigger losses but over a longer period of time but made more back.

So in short, a jumped up Cavan businessman believed a jumped up Dublin banker, invested in a jumped up Irish bank and the Irish tax payer has been stung for Billions. Quinn is a great man though.

Tayla · 19-12-2011 2:06am

4Sheets wrote: »

its sad that he should be chased into the gutter just because he somehow got involved with the crooks in anglo..

It's not just because he was somehow involved with Anglo, his family have a massive property portfolio, their assets are still worth a fortune but yet they are trying to get away with not paying back any of the debt whatsoever and so instead now everyone else will have to pay an extra 2% levy on their insurance to cover this while his family get to hold on to all these assets.

I'm sorry but I don't care if the man was a saint back in his boom days, surely hiding from all responsibility and expecting the rest of us to pay up cancels all that out!

ABEasy · 19-12-2011 1:56pm

James ngt wrote: »

ABEasy wrote: »

VAT, whilst collected by Quinns companies, was not a tax paid by his companies, it was paid by his companies customers. Likewise income tax & EE PRSI was paid by his employees not his companies. Cannot see how he would pay CAT, there is no VRT on commercial vehicles (except nominal fee). Therefore the only taxes the Quinns companies would have paid are CT, CGT & Stamp Duty (the later two would be one off and probably minimal considering the levels we are talking here). The idea you are suggesting he paid billons in tax is laughable and as is your statement that he should get credit for the VAT his employees paid!

The fact is that Quinns exports were minimal, his business's were based on domestic demand, therefore he did not create wealth for the country. The domestic demand means that if he didn't supply to meet the demand, someone else would have creating identical employment, etc. He gambled and lost and is now showing his true character now by trying to wheasel his way out of his obligations and screw us the taxpayers in the process. People who defend this fella make me sick!

Wrong, Wrong and Wrong. Quinns companies have paid 1.3 BILLION to the Irish state. Wages bill is 247 million annually, thats a lot of saved unemployment benefits. 83% of Quinns companies products are export, so his business's were not domestic demand, and identical employment would therefore not have been created elsewhere, dont know where you got that one, Finally companies filed their returns this week, read them before posting inaccurate comments. I Dont like what the man and his family are doing now but thats not a reason to make stuff up.

I find your claim that 83% of Quinns sales over the years were as a result of exports very difficult to believe! Especially considering a sizable portion of the group were insurance and quarry products. However if you have a source to this I will stand corrected. In relation to the 1.3 billion tax, again I find this difficult to believe (assuming you are not lumping VAT and employees taxes into this), especially for a company to generate this level of taxes they would need pre tax profits of €10.4 billion (1.3/.125), again if you have a link to this info I will stand corrected.

Edit: a quick google shows that 50% of Quinn group turnover in 2008 came from insurance, exports therefore did not amount to 83% or anything near it! Net profit amounted to to nearly €70m, which would give a tax liability of €8.75m which is a long way from 1.3 billion!

wikipedia.org/wiki/QUINN_group

Liam Byrne · 19-12-2011 2:18pm

maybe he got involved in some dodgy business deals in which case he should tried in a court of law and be prosecuted

Why the unnecessary "maybe" ?

And as others have said, the issue is how he's behaving NOW......those deals have nothing to do with the fact that he's trying to hide assets that don't belong to him and trying to prevent Anglo - and us - from getting our cash back.

Gophur · 19-12-2011 2:35pm

James ngt wrote: »

Wrong, Wrong and Wrong. Quinns companies have paid 1.3 BILLION to the Irish state. Wages bill is 247 million annually, thats a lot of saved unemployment benefits. ...................

Yep, it is (for the ROI residents).

What about the €700m the State has had to give to the Insurance company to prop up the insufficient reserves? (And the consequent levy on us all to pay for it?)

What about the ,almost, €3 billion he owes Anglo (now the State) ?

What about the €400m given to his children?

All told, Quinn is in very severe hock to the State and is doing his damnedest to weasel out of paying it back.

Whatever credibility and kudos he had as a successful businessman, he has lost it all. He is now a failed businessman, a failed gambler and a cheat.

When will his loyal employees wake up and see how he has gambled their futures with callous disregard for the consequences?

When, in a meeting in QD, he was told there was insufficient time to implement a project, his sole response was to ask "have I hired the wrong people?", stand up and walk out of the room.

He's a bully who got his own way for too long. Rules and regulations were for everyone else. His very limited business acumen has resulted in the current situation. From Ireland's richest man to Ireland's biggest loser.

myles james · 19-12-2011 9:13pm

ABEasy wrote: »

I find your claim that 83% of Quinns sales over the years were as a result of exports very difficult to believe! Especially considering a sizable portion of the group were insurance and quarry products. However if you have a source to this I will stand corrected. In relation to the 1.3 billion tax, again I find this difficult to believe (assuming you are not lumping VAT and employees taxes into this), especially for a company to generate this level of taxes they would need pre tax profits of €10.4 billion (1.3/.125), again if you have a link to this info I will stand corrected.

Edit: a quick google shows that 50% of Quinn group turnover in 2008 came from insurance, exports therefore did not amount to 83% or anything near it! Net profit amounted to to nearly €70m, which would give a tax liability of €8.75m which is a long way from 1.3 billion!

wikipedia.org/wiki/QUINN_group

James is right though not well explained. Quinns companies over 38 years have generated 1.3 bil revenue to the Irish State. obviously this is not an annual figure.
The figure of 83% export refers to Quinn Group only. These are the group of manufacturing companies mainly based in Derrylin, this would exclude Insurance, Health and these properties in Asia everyone is talking about. The major manufacturing factories in Derrylin are Glass, Radiators and plastic food containers. Quarrying products such as rooftiles, cement,sand and gravel while significantly large to most of us were a minor part of the manufacturing companies. And yes the manufacturing companies, mainly based in Derrylin which employ nearly 2,000 directly do export in excess of 80%.

ABEasy · 19-12-2011 10:12pm

myles james wrote: »

ABEasy wrote: »

I find your claim that 83% of Quinns sales over the years were as a result of exports very difficult to believe! Especially considering a sizable portion of the group were insurance and quarry products. However if you have a source to this I will stand corrected. In relation to the 1.3 billion tax, again I find this difficult to believe (assuming you are not lumping VAT and employees taxes into this), especially for a company to generate this level of taxes they would need pre tax profits of €10.4 billion (1.3/.125), again if you have a link to this info I will stand corrected.

Edit: a quick google shows that 50% of Quinn group turnover in 2008 came from insurance, exports therefore did not amount to 83% or anything near it! Net profit amounted to to nearly €70m, which would give a tax liability of €8.75m which is a long way from 1.3 billion!

wikipedia.org/wiki/QUINN_group

James is right though not well explained. Quinns companies over 38 years have generated 1.3 bil revenue to the Irish State. obviously this is not an annual figure.
The figure of 83% export refers to Quinn Group only. These are the group of manufacturing companies mainly based in Derrylin, this would exclude Insurance, Health and these properties in Asia everyone is talking about. The major manufacturing factories in Derrylin are Glass, Radiators and plastic food containers. Quarrying products such as rooftiles, cement,sand and gravel while significantly large to most of us were a minor part of the manufacturing companies. And yes the manufacturing companies, mainly based in Derrylin which employ nearly 2,000 directly do export in excess of 80%.

Still cannot believe they paid over 1.3 billion in tax to the state (again not including VAT and employee related taxes) as to do this they would need profits of €10.4 billion or €274m for each and every one of their 38 years in business! Again if you have a link to it I will stand corrected!

The 83%, which is being banded about by seans fanboys, is derived from selecting quinns exporting business's and ignoring the groups total income. I don't have the full figures but would imagine the export market is less than 30% of overall income. Again correct me if I'm wrong. The Quinn group entered the radiator and plastic markets in 2004, prior to this his exports were minimal compared to the groups overall income. Therefore for the vast majority of quinns history the business was lead by domestic demand!

Finally, fair play to him for creating 2000 jobs in an export lead business in Derrylin, which for the record is in the UK not Ireland!

I think the thing that drives me nuts is people defending this fella like he did nothing wrong. The sun doesn't shine out of his arse, he was a big player in a small country and through his greed and ignorance lost everything plus a bit more and now has the gaul to lump the Irish taxpayer with his debts, whilst he tries to keep his vast assets through shady dealings! I'm not going to bother posting here again, I just hope justice is done (from the taxpayers point of view).

wobbles-grogan · 10-01-2012 1:40pm

ABEasy wrote: »

Still cannot believe they paid over 1.3 billion in tax to the state (again not including VAT and employee related taxes) as to do this they would need profits of €10.4 billion or €274m for each and every one of their 38 years in business! Again if you have a link to it I will stand corrected!

The 83%, which is being banded about by seans fanboys, is derived from selecting quinns exporting business's and ignoring the groups total income. I don't have the full figures but would imagine the export market is less than 30% of overall income. Again correct me if I'm wrong. The Quinn group entered the radiator and plastic markets in 2004, prior to this his exports were minimal compared to the groups overall income. Therefore for the vast majority of quinns history the business was lead by domestic demand!

Finally, fair play to him for creating 2000 jobs in an export lead business in Derrylin, which for the record is in the UK not Ireland!

I think the thing that drives me nuts is people defending this fella like he did nothing wrong. The sun doesn't shine out of his arse, he was a big player in a small country and through his greed and ignorance lost everything plus a bit more and now has the gaul to lump the Irish taxpayer with his debts, whilst he tries to keep his vast assets through shady dealings! I'm not going to bother posting here again, I just hope justice is done (from the taxpayers point of view).

Looks like it was (somewhat) done today. Albeit by a court not in this country! But still, every little helps!!

Tayla · 10-01-2012 2:26pm

Haven't read a good news story about Ireland in a while! I was delighted to hear this today.

gigino · 10-01-2012 2:32pm

ABEasy wrote: »

Still cannot believe they paid over 1.3 billion in tax to the state (again not including VAT and employee related taxes) as to do this they would need profits of €10.4 billion or €274m for each and every one of their 38 years in business! Again if you have a link to it I will stand corrected!

The 83%, which is being banded about by seans fanboys, is derived from selecting quinns exporting business's and ignoring the groups total income. I don't have the full figures but would imagine the export market is less than 30% of overall income. Again correct me if I'm wrong. The Quinn group entered the radiator and plastic markets in 2004, prior to this his exports were minimal compared to the groups overall income. Therefore for the vast majority of quinns history the business was lead by domestic demand!

Finally, fair play to him for creating 2000 jobs in an export lead business in Derrylin, which for the record is in the UK not Ireland!

Fair play indeed for creating thousands of jobs and paying so much tax. If he banked in London instead of with Anglo Irish in Dublin, he would still be in business and worth billions. It did not pay him to wear the green shirt.

ronan45 · 10-01-2012 3:25pm

I dont 1 thing. How comes he is still driving a big flash car and living in a mansion if he is broke?

MugMugs · 10-01-2012 3:26pm

ronan45 wrote: »

I dont 1 thing. How comes he is still driving a big flash car and living in a mansion if he is broke?

Considering he was a man known for driving a heap of crap when he was a billionaire, do you want to go ahead and back that one up ?

Gophur · 10-01-2012 3:47pm

MugMugs wrote: »

Considering he was a man known for driving a heap of crap when he was a billionaire, do you want to go ahead and back that one up ?

Well, he drove 03-CN-600 for a long while, it being a 6 litre S class Mercedes, so I don't know where you get "heap of crap" from?

He also commuted to his various sites by his own helicopter.

MugMugs · 10-01-2012 3:50pm

Gophur wrote: »

Well, he drove 03-CN-600 for a long while, it being a 6 litre S class Mercedes, so I don't know where you get "heap of crap" from?

He also commuted to his various sites by his own helicopter.

I believe the comment was made with respect to "Car" and the Helicopter went by the wayside when his directorship did.

The Mercedes was a company car. Am I wrong in the belief that his personal vehicle was an old Mondeo ?

ronan45 · 10-01-2012 4:14pm

MugMugs wrote: »

Considering he was a man known for driving a heap of crap when he was a billionaire, do you want to go ahead and back that one up ?

Oh right Yeah i forgot about his chopper, Was certainly Prudent of him to retire her as he has no-where left to fly. (apart from Northern Ireland for sham legal purposes) S Class Merc aint bad in fairness :P

Gophur · 10-01-2012 4:23pm

MugMugs wrote: »

I believe the comment was made with respect to "Car" and the Helicopter went by the wayside when his directorship did.

The Mercedes was a company car. Am I wrong in the belief that his personal vehicle was an old Mondeo ?

Explain what the difference is/was, given he was the owner of the company?

The Merc was his car. Are you trying to make him out to be some way frugal?

SQ knew how to spend money. Some of it was, even, his own!

lazygal · 16-01-2012 3:55pm

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2012/0116/breaking4.html

Game over?

Or will he ever make a comeback?

Trader1991 · 16-01-2012 4:01pm

lazygal wrote: »

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2011/1111/breaking26.html

Declared bankrupt in Northern Ireland today. I hope all of those who defended him as a great businessman who did so much for his home region cop on now and recognise how much damage his speculation did to the country.

I like sean Quinn tbh. I think hes a good bussiness man who got involved in things he didnt quite understand(anglo)

wobbles-grogan · 16-01-2012 4:03pm

Trader1991 wrote: »

I like sean Quinn tbh. I think hes a good bussiness man who got involved in things he didnt quite understand(anglo)

Is that not kind of the defination of a bad business man?

patwicklow · 16-01-2012 4:37pm

He.l still live the high life just like sean fitzpatrick golfing every day in augrim.

Gophur · 16-01-2012 5:26pm

As part of his bankruptcy hearing in Belfast, SQ stated "I never worked a day outside Northern Ireland in my life. I have never worked anywhere else."

Brazen, or what? 100% false.

The man regularly worked out of the Insurance office in Cavan town, and, I'd guess, was in the other offices of the Group also.

General General · 16-01-2012 10:06pm

I would find it difficult to deny that his current claims of a 'vendetta' could seem to some people as the babbling of a man who has completely lost the plot - delusional beyond belief.

Noreen1 · 16-01-2012 10:43pm

wobbles-grogan wrote: »

Is that not kind of the defination of a bad business man?

In fairness, there is a difference between running your own company, and investing in bank shares.
You can check the accounts in your own company - or even have an accountant check them for you if you have reason to believe the figures may be inaccurate. (Yet many successful businessmen have been victims of fraud.)
Investors don't have the same access to information.

Sean Quinn may have been naive and foolish - I don't believe he ever had evil intent. He wasn't the only one to be suckered by Anglo, either.
Quite a few "experts" believed the spin, too.

withless · 16-01-2012 10:49pm

Did he ever build school or a hospital? Anything of that nature?

Liam Byrne · 16-01-2012 11:02pm

Noreen1 wrote: »

wobbles-grogan wrote: »

Is that not kind of the defination of a bad business man?

In fairness, there is a difference between running your own company, and investing in bank shares.
You can check the accounts in your own company - or even have an accountant check them for you if you have reason to believe the figures may be inaccurate. (Yet many successful businessmen have been victims of fraud.)
Investors don't have the same access to information.

Sean Quinn may have been naive and foolish - I don't believe he ever had evil intent. He wasn't the only one to be suckered by Anglo, either.
Quite a few "experts" believed the spin, too.

Naive & foolish doesn't quite cover taking out a €2,800,000,000 loan

Naive & foolish certainly doesn't cover breaking the law by borrowing money from a bank to invest in its shares.

All that aside, the contempt for Quinn is based on his CURRENT actions in giving assets off to family members while expecting those far less well off to foot his bill; that is absolutely despicable and if I used the word I want to use to describe that mindset I would probably be banned.

Suffice to say it's beyond contempt.

Trader1991 · 16-01-2012 11:05pm

wobbles-grogan wrote: »

Is that not kind of the defination of a bad business man?

Well I don't think he became the richest person in Ireland by being bad at business. I know hes bankrupt now but thats only because he got involved in shares and derivatives which didn't pan out for him. In terms of building a business and entrepreneurial spirit hes got it all which makes him a good business man, but oviously hes not a professional investor and more than likely acted on so called experts advice.

Mardy Bum · 16-01-2012 11:13pm

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Naive & foolish doesn't quite cover taking out a €2,800,000,000 loan

Naive & foolish certainly doesn't cover breaking the law by borrowing money from a bank to invest in its shares.

All that aside, the contempt for Quinn is based on his CURRENT actions in giving assets off to family members while expecting those far less well off to foot his bill; that is absolutely despicable and if I used the word I want to use to describe that mindset I would probably be banned.

Suffice to say it's beyond contempt.

He didn't take out a loan it was mainly through contracts for difference.

Liam Byrne · 16-01-2012 11:45pm

Mardy Bum wrote: »

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Naive & foolish doesn't quite cover taking out a €2,800,000,000 loan

Naive & foolish certainly doesn't cover breaking the law by borrowing money from a bank to invest in its shares.

All that aside, the contempt for Quinn is based on his CURRENT actions in giving assets off to family members while expecting those far less well off to foot his bill; that is absolutely despicable and if I used the word I want to use to describe that mindset I would probably be banned.

Suffice to say it's beyond contempt.

He didn't take out a loan it was mainly through contracts for difference.

Couldn't remember the phrase! Cheers!

Same difference though, just a negative difference (maybe minus some interest)

And as I said, the issue with him is his current lies and weaselling.

Noreen1 · 16-01-2012 11:54pm

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Naive & foolish doesn't quite cover taking out a €2,800,000,000 loan

Naive & foolish certainly doesn't cover breaking the law by borrowing money from a bank to invest in its shares.

All that aside, the contempt for Quinn is based on his CURRENT actions in giving assets off to family members while expecting those far less well off to foot his bill; that is absolutely despicable and if I used the word I want to use to describe that mindset I would probably be banned.

Suffice to say it's beyond contempt.

I never said I condoned giving assets to family members since his business fell apart - if that is what has been happening.
I'm not inclined to believe everything I read in the media. Facts tend to get distorted a little too often, in my experience.

I don't know what the truth is. I haven't spoken to Sean Quinn in years.
What I can say, is that back in 2000/2001, he was a quiet, shy, unassuming man. He never tried to be anything other than what he was - a man who started digging out the back of his fathers house, at the age of 15, and who got laughed at for believing he could ever create a successful business.
He went on to build a business empire, and never looked down on either his workforce, or your average working Joe. As a matter of fact, he was happiest driving a cement lorry, in a pair of working boots, and chatting to working class people. By his own admission, he disliked the Boardroom.

I liked him.
Did he change since? I don't know.
I do know that the man I knew then doesn't sound like the man I read about in the media.

I do not condone fraud. I do, however, wonder how much truth there is in what I read, and whether Sean Quinn is being used as a scapegoat to divert attention from others.
I suspect, strongly, that the "upstart newcomer" was setup for a fall to save other skins.

I have no insider knowledge of what went on in the Quinn Empire over the last 10 years. I do know that Sean Quinn considered Derrylin to be his place of business 10 years ago, despite what you may read in the media, and what the learned judge may have decided.

I have serious difficulty in equating the man I knew with the guy who is vilified in the media, and I tend to disbelieve that anyone could change that much in 10 years. So, I'll accept that I will probably never know the full facts, and refrain form vilifying him, based on the facts that I do know.

flutered · 17-01-2012 12:05am

Noreen1 wrote: »

I never said I condoned giving assets to family members since his business fell apart - if that is what has been happening.
I'm not inclined to believe everything I read in the media. Facts tend to get distorted a little too often, in my experience.

I don't know what the truth is. I haven't spoken to Sean Quinn in years.
What I can say, is that back in 2000/2001, he was a quiet, shy, unassuming man. He never tried to be anything other than what he was - a man who started digging out the back of his fathers house, at the age of 15, and who got laughed at for believing he could ever create a successful business.
He went on to build a business empire, and never looked down on either his workforce, or your average working Joe. As a matter of fact, he was happiest driving a cement lorry, in a pair of working boots, and chatting to working class people. By his own admission, he disliked the Boardroom.

I liked him.
Did he change since? I don't know.
I do know that the man I knew then doesn't sound like the man I read about in the media.

I do not condone fraud. I do, however, wonder how much truth there is in what I read, and whether Sean Quinn is being used as a scapegoat to divert attention from others.
I suspect, strongly, that the "upstart newcomer" was setup for a fall to save other skins.

I have no insider knowledge of what went on in the Quinn Empire over the last 10 years. I do know that Sean Quinn considered Derrylin to be his place of business 10 years ago, despite what you may read in the media, and what the learned judge may have decided.

I have serious difficulty in equating the man I knew with the guy who is vilified in the media, and I tend to disbelieve that anyone could change that much in 10 years. So, I'll accept that I will probably never know the full facts, and refrain form vilifying him, based on the facts that I do know.

yet he traded a buisness for a laptop, the morning coffee must be non existant in your kitchen.

Noreen1 · 17-01-2012 1:33am

flutered wrote: »

yet he traded a buisness for a laptop, the morning coffee must be non existant in your kitchen.

I thought it wouldn't be long before I received a response - but that was quicker than I expected.:D

Anglo claimed he traded a business for a laptop. But the court made no findings of impropriety, which I find rather strange.

So, I'm still left with the question, how much of what is commonly believed is truth?

I have no obligation of loyalty to Sean Quinn, and, as I said previously, I do not condone fraud, nor offloading debts onto the hard-pressed Irish taxpayer, while allegedly transferring wealth to his own family.
However, I am left with a lot of questions.

Why did the court make no findings of impropriety?
Why did the Judge in Belfast decide that Sean Quinns empire wasn't based in Derrylin? I know for a fact that Sean Quinn himself considered Derrylin to be his centre of business in 2000/2001 - long before he had any motivation to make false claims about it.
So - did his centre of business change since then in terms of revenue, while he himself still considered Derrylin to be his place of Business?
Again, I don't know - but I find the fact that only 20% of his taxes were paid in Ireland would suggest that the bulk of his business wasn't conducted in Ireland, yet it doesn't prove that his taxes were paid in the UK either.

Non-existent morning coffee aside - (I don't drink coffee, by the way:P)based on my own personal knowledge, I have questions/doubts that remain unanswered, and will probably remain so. So, I'll refrain from judgement, since I have reason to seriously doubt one court finding, and can't fathom why there would have been no finding of impropriety in the other, if the allegations were proven.
Jumping on the bandwagon to vilify Sean Quinn would be dishonest in those circumstances, so the only thing I can ethically do is refrain from judgement.

Who thinks Sean Quinn is a great businessman now?

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