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When atheists go too far

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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 250 ✭✭Matthew23


    Sweet irony! :D

    i dont know irony can u tell me why this is irony?:o


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 13,030 ✭✭✭✭Chuck Stone


    The signal has gone out and here come the defenders of christ and god and that crowd!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sE1huPYerp0


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 22,479 ✭✭✭✭philologos


    OP: To be honest with you, I couldn't give a fiddles if Richard Dawkins or anyone else decides to ridicule my beliefs as I'm quite capable of defending my Christian beliefs from mostly ill-informed ridicule. I expect this as a part of everyday reality. Part of what I find that Christianity calls me to do is to try and explain things in as clear a way as I humanly can without taking a whole lot of offence over it. It's much better that these things are being discussed than not.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 22,479 ✭✭✭✭philologos


    Nobody knows for sure what religious beliefs Hitler held towards the end, but he spoke a good bit about the 'Lord' and the 'Creator', and he also spoke out against atheism on many occasions.

    As a tool, certainly. Hitler's statements on beliefs range from denying Christianity, wanting to eradicate it, to praising it, to thinking that Islam was better etc.

    In private memoirs of other Nazi contempoaries he held Christianity much less favourably.

    Read the whole article.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,980 ✭✭✭limklad


    fedor.2. wrote: »
    He'll be sorry when he's in hell
    He does not need to go there, there plenty of it here on Earth.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,538 ✭✭✭flutterflye


    philologos wrote: »
    As a tool, certainly. Hitler's statements on beliefs range from denying Christianity, wanting to eradicate it, to praising it, to thinking that Islam was better etc.

    In private memoirs of other Nazi contempoaries he held Christianity much less favourably.

    Read the whole article.

    What is the point you are making?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 22,479 ✭✭✭✭philologos


    What is the point you are making?

    Hitler used Christianity as a tool to pursue his goals. It doesn't necessarily believe that he himself actually believed in it. His private statements cast a lot of doubt on that in fact.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,538 ✭✭✭flutterflye


    philologos wrote: »
    Hitler used Christianity as a tool to pursue his goals. It doesn't necessarily believe that he himself actually believed in it. His private statements cast a lot of doubt on that in fact.

    OK.

    Nobody here has insinuated he was a christian though (I don't think).


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 32,865 ✭✭✭✭MagicMarker


    What's wrong with ridiculing stupid beliefs? :confused:


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 22,479 ✭✭✭✭philologos


    What's wrong with ridiculing stupid beliefs? :confused:

    Nothing, if we can confirm that they are stupid. It can be equally stupid to misplace ones skepticism.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,672 ✭✭✭elefant


    Personally, I believe that if an Atheist (or anyone else for that matter!) has a point to make and they make said point, more power to them. If that point is on religion, and how the believe some part of it is wrong, or how some part of it causes terrible suffering then their opinion deserves respect.

    What gets on my nerves is when people react with shock to someone believing in God... "YOU believe in God? I would have thought you had more sense". That kind of thing. The vast majority of Christians, for example, don't believe in creationism, don't take the bible as fact, don't think that homosexuality is a sin (does that make them non-christians :confused:) etc. Plenty of intelligent, reasonable human beings believe in God for their own personal reasons. Ridiculing them, or their beliefs, serves no purpose in my opinion.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 17,661 ✭✭✭✭Helix


    elefant wrote: »
    Personally, I believe that if an Atheist (or anyone else for that matter!) has a point to make and they make said point, more power to them. If that point is on religion, and how the believe some part of it is wrong, or how some part of it causes terrible suffering then their opinion deserves respect.

    What gets on my nerves is when people react with shock to someone believing in God... "YOU believe in God? I would have thought you had more sense". That kind of thing. The vast majority of Christians, for example, don't believe in creationism, don't take the bible as fact, don't think that homosexuality is a sin (does that make them non-christians :confused:) etc. Plenty of intelligent, reasonable human beings believe in God for their own personal reasons. Ridiculing them, or their beliefs, serves no purpose in my opinion.

    there's hardly a difference between believing in adam and eve and believing that theres a magical man in the sky who controls everything though in fairness. that's what amuses me about christians, the whole "oh creationism is silly, its people taking things to extremes. me, i just believe in a god who sent his son to earth to be born of a virgin, perform miracles, die and rise from the dead, you know... the sensible stuff" angle they seem to take nowadays


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,672 ✭✭✭elefant


    Helix wrote: »
    there's hardly a difference between believing in adam and eve and believing that theres a magical man in the sky who controls everything though in fairness. that's what amuses me about christians, the whole "oh creationism is silly, its people taking things to extremes. me, i just believe in a god who sent his son to earth to be born of a virgin, perform miracles, die and rise from the dead, you know... the sensible stuff" angle they seem to take nowadays

    I don't think most theists believe God controls everything either. Plus, Evolution pretty much disproves creationism. I doubt the existence of God can be disproved in such a way.

    [Maybe my bad for mentioning Christianity btw. I'm pretty positive most 'Catholics', for example, are not true Catholics at all.]


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 22,479 ✭✭✭✭philologos


    elefant wrote: »
    I don't think most theists believe God controls everything either. Plus, Evolution pretty much disproves creationism. I doubt the existence of God can be disproved in such a way.

    [Maybe my bad for mentioning Christianity btw. I'm pretty positive most 'Catholics', for example, are not true Catholics at all.]

    Evolution doesn't disprove the idea that God could have created the universe and all that is in it including its processes and laws.

    As for God controlling everything, I do think that He has full authority and can exercise full control, but has also allowed us room to express our free will.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,533 ✭✭✭Donkey Oaty


    philologos wrote: »
    As for God controlling everything, I do think that He has full authority and can exercise full control, but has also allowed us room to express our free will.

    Baaah!"£$%%^^ zzzzzzzzzzzzzz'a'fkljsd'lfkajs'lfkjasdl'fkajsdl'fkj

    According to you, I say this with God's approval, and apparently his full control and full authority.

    Blessed is the word of the Lord.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 17,661 ✭✭✭✭Helix


    philologos wrote: »
    He has full authority and can exercise full control, but has also allowed us room to express our free will.

    you cant have both


  • Registered Users Posts: 412 ✭✭Haelium


    Helix wrote: »
    you cant have both

    It's simple, you have a choice, but if you make a choice that he doesn't like you burn in hellfire forever.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,428 ✭✭✭busyliving


    Dawkins is a great man, I’ve seen many of documentaries and done a little reading about him...I think everything he says has value and the people who say his wrong to ridicule bizarre believes are in most cases the same people who would call someone crazy for believing in aliens...

    I mean which is more ridiculous, believing in aliens or believing in God(as depicted by religion)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,533 ✭✭✭Donkey Oaty


    Haelium wrote: »
    It's simple, you have a choice, but if you make a choice that he doesn't like you burn in hellfire forever.

    Hmm....this "free will" thing that everyone seems in favour of doesn't seem to be as good as it sounds...


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 11,001 ✭✭✭✭opinion guy


    Whilst I have zero time for religion, I find Dawkins to be an obnoxious ass with nothing really particularly interesting to say. I really REALLY don't understand why he is given so much attention by the media.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,855 ✭✭✭Nabber


    I think what people forget is, that it takes more faith to not believe in God than to believe in him.

    Big Bang theory, created by man for man. Everything came from nothing. How? Make up a new theory!

    My only problem is when theory is put out as fact, evolution, global warming and big bang are all theories. Yet they are thought in school as fact.

    Religion is faith.
    It's like a relationship, you have faith in your other half. But we humans always need hard proof.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,538 ✭✭✭flutterflye


    Nabber wrote: »
    I think what people forget is, that it takes more faith to not believe in God than to believe in him.

    Eh.... What?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 22,479 ✭✭✭✭philologos


    biko wrote: »
    Militant Atheism hasn't killed anyone, Christianity and Islam has killed thousands.

    I would doubt this really. As others tend to brush aside, atheism has been used as a vehicle by other causes for mass murder much as formal religions have.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,327 ✭✭✭AhSureTisGrand


    philologos wrote: »
    I would doubt this really. As others tend to brush aside, atheism has been used as a vehicle by other causes for mass murder much as formal religions have.

    But what you really mean here is anti-theism


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 22,479 ✭✭✭✭philologos


    But what you really mean here is anti-theism

    I would consider militant atheism and anti-theism to be much the same.


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  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 32,865 ✭✭✭✭MagicMarker


    philologos wrote: »
    I would doubt this really. As others tend to brush aside, atheism has been used as a vehicle by other causes for mass murder much as formal religions have.
    This is beyond ridiculous, even for you.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 22,479 ✭✭✭✭philologos


    This is beyond ridiculous, even for you.

    Not really. What is more ridiculous is the claim that somehow atheism is going to make the world a better place.

    Even if faith in God was the beginning of intolerance and hatred (which I don't believe it is), it is evident that other intolerances and hatreds will continue to exist into the world into perpetuity. It's a woeful argument for biko to make.


  • Registered Users Posts: 412 ✭✭Haelium


    Nabber wrote: »
    I think what people forget is, that it takes more faith to not believe in God than to believe in him.

    It takes more faith to not believe in santa than to believe in santa.
    Nabber wrote: »
    Big Bang theory, created by man for man. Everything came from nothing. How? Make up a new theory!

    No, it states that everything came from an extremely hot and dense state that rapidly expanded and cooled down(It's currently expanding and cooling actually). Please do a quick google search, it's quite interesting once you get into it.
    Nabber wrote: »
    My only problem is when theory is put out as fact, evolution, global warming and big bang are all theories. Yet they are thought in school as fact.

    No, they are taught as scientific theories, however a scientific theory is not just an idea, it must have a lot of evidence to become a theory, but science is all about theories being perfected and becoming more accurate through constant experimentation. Once we have a better theory, it is replaced(Example: Newtons theory of gravity was replaced with Einsteins theory of relativity).


    **** man, this is all junior cert level stuff.

    Nabber wrote: »
    Religion is faith.
    It's like a relationship, you have faith in your other half. But we humans always need hard proof.

    Hard proof is what allows you to type this on your PC right now.

    "Science flies you to the moon, religion flies you into buildings".


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,679 ✭✭✭Freddie59


    That may be true, but that doesn't stop some people from being agressive about thier beliefs (regardless of what it is they believe).

    Some people being the operative word. I'm a Catholic. I don't begrudge other their beliefs (or lack of same). All I ask is that others respect mine. If they don't there really isn't a lot I can do.

    A lot of the time on boards you hear 'there's no God'; 'invisible friend', etc. But until you experience God through a deep faith, well, you really cannot begin to understand it.

    The easy path is to ridicule Him - and all that He has created. I have taken a slightly more difficult one. But no regrets - ever.:)


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 32,865 ✭✭✭✭MagicMarker


    philologos wrote: »
    Not really. What is more ridiculous is the claim that somehow atheism is going to make the world a better place.

    Who's making that claim?
    philologos wrote: »
    Even if faith in God was the beginning of intolerance and hatred (which I don't believe it is), it is evident that other intolerances and hatreds will continue to exist into the world into perpetuity. It's a woeful argument for biko to make.

    I haven't come across anyone who thinks god was the beginning of intolerance and hatred, nor have I met anyone who believes that these things will magically disappear along with religion.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,679 ✭✭✭Freddie59


    Haelium wrote: »
    "Science flies you to the moon, religion flies you into buildings".

    How very sad that you quote something like that. It wasn't the religion that flew those planes into buildings, rather fanatics using it to hide behind.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,533 ✭✭✭Donkey Oaty


    Who's making that claim?

    I haven't come across anyone who thinks god was the beginning of intolerance and hatred, nor have I met anyone who believes that these things will magically disappear along with religion.

    It'd be a good start though.


  • Registered Users Posts: 412 ✭✭Haelium


    Freddie59 wrote: »
    How very sad that you quote something like that. It wasn't the religion that flew those planes into buildings, rather fanatics using it to hide behind.


    Those guys at NASA were fanatical too. Fanatical about science. But are you seriously going to suggest that without the corruption of Islam that they would do it anyway?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,327 ✭✭✭AhSureTisGrand


    Freddie59 wrote: »
    How very sad that you quote something like that. It wasn't the religion that flew those planes into buildings, rather fanatics using it to hide behind.

    Well why did they do it then? For the craic?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,679 ✭✭✭Freddie59


    What's wrong with ridiculing stupid beliefs? :confused:

    From YOUR perspective. It is both shameful and disrespectful. The funny thing is that the people who go to extremes to insult God are the ones seemingly brimming with aggression and intolerance.:)


  • Posts: 4,630 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Nabber wrote: »
    My only problem is when theory is put out as fact, evolution, global warming and big bang are all theories. Yet they are thought in school as fact.

    I think you'll find that evolution is a fact.

    Edit: Also, the Big Bang theory doesn't state that something came from nothing. It doesn't concern itself with that.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,679 ✭✭✭Freddie59


    Haelium wrote: »
    Those guys at NASA were fanatical too. Fanatical about science. But are you seriously going to suggest that without the corruption of Islam that they would do it anyway?

    Islam was a convenient vehicle for them. That was all. FWIW I have a great respect and admiration for Science and its achievements. But it has also made some HUGE mess-ups. But should I respect it any less because of those?


  • Registered Users Posts: 412 ✭✭Haelium


    Freddie59 wrote: »
    From YOUR perspective. It is both shameful and disrespectful. The funny thing is that the people who go to extremes to insult God are the ones seemingly brimming with aggression and intolerance.:)

    Yeah, we make those crazy Zionists, Taliban and Spanish Inquisition guys look like the nicest bunch of lads.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,533 ✭✭✭Donkey Oaty


    Freddie59 wrote: »
    FWIW I have a great respect and admiration for Science and its achievements. But it has also made some HUGE mess-ups. But should I respect it any less because of those?

    Yeah...those huge Science mess-ups are terrible.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,327 ✭✭✭AhSureTisGrand


    Freddie59 wrote: »
    Islam was a convenient vehicle for them. That was all. FWIW I have a great respect and admiration for Science and its achievements. But it has also made some HUGE mess-ups. But should I respect it any less because of those?

    When science is wrong it corrects itself. Otherwise it wouldn't be science


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,679 ✭✭✭Freddie59


    gvn wrote: »
    I think you'll find that evolution is a fact.

    Edit: Also, the Big Bang theory doesn't state that something came from nothing. It doesn't concern itself with that.

    1. Evolution is a fact. How so?

    2. The essence of the BBT is that everything did, indeed, come from nothing.

    From NASA:

    "The Big Bang Model is a broadly accepted theory for the origin and evolution of our universe. It postulates that 12 to 14 billion years ago, the portion of the universe we can see today was only a few millimeters across".

    That is, without doubt, a most ludicrous assumption which at best appears to be tenuous, and at worst, impossible to prove.

    It's up there with 'salt/butter/pencil in as required is good/bad for you'.

    There are two sides, both claiming to be experts. Which is right?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,679 ✭✭✭Freddie59


    When science is wrong it corrects itself. Otherwise it wouldn't be science

    Not always. Global 'warming'?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,533 ✭✭✭Donkey Oaty


    After the recent financial shenanigans, I'm also a bit sceptical about mathematics as a discipline.


  • Registered Users Posts: 412 ✭✭Haelium


    gvn wrote: »
    I think you'll find that evolution is a fact.

    I have to correct you on that, it's a strong theory, but in biology there are no facts(Well... very few facts that we take for granted, otherwise we would be stuck in philosophy). The only science that has facts is maths.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,462 ✭✭✭✭WoollyRedHat


    I don't believe in Richard Dawkins

    Or Stephen Hawkins

    Or Alec Baldwin

    or Thomas Jefferson

    Not even John Lennon


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,679 ✭✭✭Freddie59


    Haelium wrote: »
    Yeah, we make those crazy Zionists, Taliban and Spanish Inquisition guys look like the nicest bunch of lads.

    Probably no better than them though.:)


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 32,865 ✭✭✭✭MagicMarker


    Freddie59 wrote: »
    1. Evolution is a fact. How so?

    Evolution is a 100% proven fact.
    Freddie59 wrote: »
    2. The essence of the BBT is that everything did, indeed, come from nothing.

    From NASA:

    "The Big Bang Model is a broadly accepted theory for the origin and evolution of our universe. It postulates that 12 to 14 billion years ago, the portion of the universe we can see today was only a few millimeters across".

    That is, without doubt, a most ludicrous assumption which at best appears to be tenuous, and at worst, impossible to prove.

    A few millimeters isn't nothing.


  • Registered Users Posts: 412 ✭✭Haelium


    Freddie59 wrote: »
    There are two sides, both claiming to be experts. Which is right?

    The one that bases their methods on reality and evidence rather than thousand year old writings, perhaps?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,327 ✭✭✭AhSureTisGrand


    Freddie59 wrote: »
    Not always. Global 'warming'?

    I'm guessing you're going to use scientific evidence to back up your claim


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,679 ✭✭✭Freddie59


    Evolution is a 100% proven fact.

    Again, how so? 100%? Irrefutable?
    A few millimeters isn't nothing.

    Depends on your point of view.;):D

    Seriously, stop and think. Someone is trying to convince you that something less than an inch across formed the Universe. Without any binding, logical, proof.


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