BJJ WORLDS

NG-DOC · 07-06-2011 5:49pm

Shane Fitz wrote: »

But you acted arbitrarilly, or so it seems to me.
Simple direction, on whether someone who has graded no-Gi must transfare to that grade for Gi comp or not. Are no-Gi grades still considered the equivelant to Gi grades.?
Or are we to now use your model, where if the consensus is they are two different games and require two different grading standards?
Or is it to be a case by case basis?
At the moment, no-Gi grades are regard as egual to Gi grades for the purpose of competition. Your actions have turned that on its head.

I'll pose you a question, which does not need to be answered publically, but consider it please?
What happens to the next Next Gen Blue t-shirt who wants to compete in a Gi tournie? Does he go in as a Blue or a White, how do we decide?

regarding the first few questions. it's clear we don't have the same understanding of this situation and if you would like to discuss this further in person when i am back in ireland, i'd be more than happy to. but for now, i have no energy or desire to continue this discussion here.

as for the last question, i would like an answer to this too.

dasmoose · 07-06-2011 6:05pm

Barry.Oglesby wrote: »

The "list" is compiled by fans of the sport as an easy reference point. It's not some official line to refer back to. I'd imagine there's a lot missing from it from guys who are travelling etc.

This. Getting on the list is simply a case of emailing us and telling us you've got your belt, if you're known to me I'll put you on, if you're not i'll do some very minor checks that you're not just some random bloke.

In the case of NG, I think either Dave Jones emailed me or I saw on his site that chris and a few others had been promoted by Chris Brennan. Chris is a legit black belt so they went on the list, simple as.

darced · 07-06-2011 7:09pm

This post has been deleted.

OLDMAN1 · 07-06-2011 10:42pm

Barry.Oglesby wrote: »

What accepted convention? The belt list everyone's talking about is on BJJ.ie, which is an excellent website run by people who are interested in the sport in Ireland, but nothing official. The IBJJA exists but hasn't really done anything since it's inception bar a couple of tournaments so I can't see them coming up with any rules regarding grades in gi or nogi. I've never seen any literature from the IBJJF that states anything regarding grades.

Darragh has given his explanation on the matter, and while I disagree with his reading of the situation I think I'll talk to him about it the next time I see him face to face, as I think this thread is actually becoming just a vehicle for people who don't understand the sport to snipe. OLDMAN isn't involved in BJJ, Niall Keane isn't involved in BJJ, MMAIRELANDFAN isn't involved in BJJ, so when we're talking about gi vs. Nogi grades they don't know what we're on about but since this is an open forum they can wantonly accuse people of cheating willy nilly without understanding the rules. I don't think that's fair on Chris or his team regardless of my opinion.

I don't think this is right, but I think the rules are to blame here, not anyone else.

Barry: Im not sniping as you put it, normally i wouldn't bother getting involved with ones these thrends, this one was different for 2 reasons.

(1) I didn't like the way this thrend was closed, in my opinion some people tryed to bully the mods to close it and to be honest this rubed me up the wrong way from the start.

(2) If this had happened at any normal bjj competition in Ireland, i wouldn't have got involved but when someone steps on to the international stage and represents my country (Ireland), i believe it's open to anyone weather they come from a martial arts background or not. people that represent Ireland should be held to a high standard, i don't accuse people of cheating willy nilly...

On a personel note , I've been doing different forms of wrestling for a long time in nogi and gi (we call them just jackets) so please dont try to give the impression you know what i know, you dont know me, you dont know what i do or dont know, i've openly stated that i dont know the FULL rules of BJJ,I've never trained in BJJ. I've enough trouble remembering the
rules of the stuff i do, thats the reason i asked for clarification on them, you on the other hand not only do BJJ, you also teach it, so whats your excuse for not knowing them as you couldn't anwser the question either...

Doug Cartel · 07-06-2011 11:18pm

OLDMAN1 wrote: »

(2) If this had happened at any normal bjj competition in Ireland, i wouldn't have got involved but when someone steps on to the international stage and represents my country (Ireland), i believe it's open to anyone weather they come from a martial arts background or not. people that represent Ireland should be held to a high standard, i don't accuse people of cheating willy nilly...

Perhaps I'm splitting hairs here, but this thing is done by club, not country. Technically he wasn't really representing Ireland, but Ribeiro Jiu-Jitsu.

Chris89 · 08-06-2011 1:09am

Doug Cartel wrote: »

Perhaps I'm splitting hairs here, but this thing is done by club, not country. Technically he wasn't really representing Ireland, but Ribeiro Jiu-Jitsu.

This.

I was indirectly representing Ireland by getting off my arse and doing something, but there is no acknowledgment whatsoever made to what country you are from.

Sid_Justice · 08-06-2011 1:21am

when are you coming back to ireland chris

Chris89 · 08-06-2011 1:26am

Sid_Justice wrote: »

when are you coming back to ireland chris

July, missing the Munster Open unfortunately.

Chris89 · 08-06-2011 8:26am

darced wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Just because I can beat people in a tournament doesnt say anything about my belt rank, I might just be good at competitions or have a strategy that on the day I was able to use to beat my opponent. There are countless variables.

A purple belt?! Lets not be silly.

BJJRevSS · 08-06-2011 9:19am

Chris89 wrote: »

Just because I can beat people in a tournament doesnt say anything about my belt rank, I might just be good at competitions or have a strategy that on the day I was able to use to beat my opponent. There are countless variables.

A purple belt?! Lets not be silly.

But chris your competing in an advanced division with advanced rules, which does indicate your rank of blue, purple or anything above as the other competitors are the same ?

Its a pitty that this situation has happedned none of this is a personal attack on you just every 1s curious how this affect the rules ?
Will people now be regraded if they move clubs?

EnjoyChoke · 08-06-2011 9:23am

Chris,
any chance you could post a big f***ing photo of your medal?
I like medals.

cowzerp · 08-06-2011 10:15am

BJJRevSS wrote: »

But chris your competing in an advanced division with advanced rules, which does indicate your rank of blue, purple or anything above as the other competitors are the same ?

Its a pitty that this situation has happedned none of this is a personal attack on you just every 1s curious how this affect the rules ?
Will people now be regraded if they move clubs?

well maybe he's not purple but not far off it, certainly not white anyway.

i also would like clarification on where this puts others who graded with Chris Brennan..

EnjoyChoke · 08-06-2011 10:20am

Christ Almighty, is this groundhog day? Seriously.

Tim_Murphy · 08-06-2011 11:05am

Jebus! This is some thread ye have going. :eek:

I don't have particularly strong opinions about BJJ belts, competitions and all that, just wanted to say congrats to Chris. It's a huge acheivement anyway you look at it. Well done dude.

Sid_Justice · 08-06-2011 3:05pm

Tim_Murphy wrote: »

I don't have particularly strong opinions about BJJ belts, competitions and all that,

do you train or compete in the gi?

Tim_Murphy · 08-06-2011 3:34pm

Sid_Justice wrote: »

do you train or compete in the gi?

Yes and yes. I coach gi BJJ too.

da-bres · 08-06-2011 4:02pm

Tim_Murphy wrote: »

Yes and yes. I coach gi BJJ too.

you looked slick at the last munster open Tim will you be competing at it again in July?

Tim_Murphy · 08-06-2011 5:02pm

da-bres wrote: »

you looked slick at the last munster open Tim will you be competing at it again in July?

Cheers man. I think it might be clashing with something else, but if it isn't I'll be there.

Sid_Justice · 08-06-2011 6:31pm

If you were able to enter the gi bjj competition at the munster open tim what belt competition would you enter? On one hand you say you've no time for the belt system but at the same time you compete in BJJ competition so you have to follow the rules.

Chris89 · 08-06-2011 7:11pm

BJJRevSS wrote: »

But chris your competing in an advanced division with advanced rules, which does indicate your rank of blue, purple or anything above as the other competitors are the same ?

Those divisions were made by how long you had been training, not what bjj belt you were, people that dont even practice bjj can enter them. I have trained on and off for about three years, even though most of it was once or twice a week casually, I still entered the advanced division.

BJJRevSS · 08-06-2011 9:43pm

Chris89 wrote: »

Those divisions were made by how long you had been training, not what bjj belt you were, people that dont even practice bjj can enter them. I have trained on and off for about three years, even though most of it was once or twice a week casually, I still entered the advanced division.[/QUOTE

Alright no problem, this is the last post I'll be making on this because I'm sick of it now... I emailed the IBJJF explaining to them the situation that went on (see email below). Anyone who wants to clarify this please email Alvaro Mansor at regras@ibjjf.com and he will be happy to answer your questions as he did mine. This should answer everyones question - Are no gi grades equal to gi grades.

Thanks very much,
This has been painful!!!!
Cheers,
Michael O'Hagan

Hi

Im writing with a question about the grade system. If some one has a blue belt in nogi does this make them the equivelant in the gi ???
A person from our academy trains nogi and hold the rank of blue belt, he also competes in the gi at blue division. He recently traveled to the USA and competed and entered a white belt and place 3rd , it is now under debate weather hes been cheating . Can you please give me your opinion on this???

Thanks for your time

Regards

Michael O'Hagan

regras@ibjjf.com toMichael O'Hagan <micknobody@gmail.com>
dateWed, Jun 8, 2011 at 8:54 PMsubjectRe:
hide details 8:54 PM (45 minutes ago)

The correct answer is that the same rank for gi on will be for without the gi.
Em 6 6, 2011 7:09 PM, "Michael O'Hagan" <micknobody@gmail.com>escreveu:- Show quoted text -

EnjoyChoke · 08-06-2011 9:56pm

Thanks Mick,

that clears absolutly nothing up. He doesn't train at you academy, does he?
Why are you turning this forum into a den of lies?

Anyway I do not understand why this is upsetting you so much, but I'm glad you have decided to move on.

SDTimeout · 08-06-2011 9:59pm

Thanks Mick, pretty sure we all knew that though and the debate had moved onto if it was fair / was there a problem with the IBJJF ?

Chris89 · 08-06-2011 11:38pm

so we now know Alvaro Mansors opinion of whether I cheated or not is: gi grades will be the same in nogi.

Thank goodness you posted this.

And I would never train at your academy Mick.

BJJRevSS · 08-06-2011 11:59pm

Chris89 wrote: »

I would never train at your academy Mick.

Nobodys name is mentioned here its a hypotetical question! Its very similar to the story going on with you.. by the sounds of things I wouldnt want you there Chris, sand-bagers and cheaters stink up the place and is bad for business!!!:)

Chris89 · 09-06-2011 12:02am

BJJRevSS wrote: »

Nobodys name is mentioned here its a high potetical question! Its very similar to the story going on with you.. by the sounds of things I wouldnt want you there Chris, sand-bagers and cheaters stink up the place and is bad for business!!!:)

High Potetical!

Chris89 · 09-06-2011 12:04am

BJJRevSS wrote: »

Nobodys name is mentioned here its a hypotetical question! Its very similar to the story going on with you.. by the sounds of things I wouldnt want you there Chris, sand-bagers and cheaters stink up the place and is bad for business!!!:)

Well then if it wasnt me then Congratulations to you and your student for the Medal, you must be a great coach and you and your team must have worked very hard for this. Well deserved!

Chris

Sid_Justice · 09-06-2011 12:38am

Chris89 wrote: »

so we now know Alvaro Mansors

Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't Alvaro Mansors the CBJJ director rules? Surely his opinion matters on a competition he is the director of rules for. His position is fairly clear, entrants to BJJ competitions should enter in the grade they were awarded by certified and accredited individuals, in this case BJJ blackbelts. Chris Brennan is a BJJ black belt and has been for many years and he awarded you a blue belt. You decided under advice from Daragh O'Conail to enter the competition as a White Belt. This is a fairly obvious breach of the rules. People that break rules of competitions are foulers and cheaters.

I started out thinking you are a humble and hardworking person, passionate about the art of BJJ and wanted to start from scratch in the gi and learn the art from the beginning from someone equally interested in the gi aspect of the sport. Now I've moved onto thinking you're a slightly arrogant, naive brazilophile who wants to eat acai berries and sandbag and win bjj tournaments.

I read Darragh's and your account of the situation and I saw the logic. While it may not be cheating in an important, significant or malicious way don't overlook the fact, that as the rules stand to any reasonable person it is technically cheating.

Take as many pot shots at my spelling, grammar, bjj knowledge lineage or experience as you want but I think the facts speak from themselves regardless of what you and your chum say.

Chris89 · 09-06-2011 12:46am

I would hope that it was fairly obvious to most that my reply was just poking fun at how vague the response was, perhaps Micks question was lost in translation.

To me the reply reads "if you are a blue belt in gi BJJ, you hold the equivelant 'nogi rank'".

Dont take my comments towards Mick as arrogant, he hasnt been saying very nice things about me, I dont think I owe him any respect.

Sid_Justice · 09-06-2011 12:58am

Fair enough Chris, you're getting a lot of heat here and are only sticking up for yourself. I hope I didn't sound too carried away, it's not like it's michelle de bruin smith!

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