Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

Western Rail Corridor (all disused sections)

Options
1…3738404243…324

Comments

  • Options
    #1172
    CIE
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,463 ✭✭✭CIE


    corktina wrote: »
    did you not see the schedule I put up for a special speed attempt by the fastest train in the world in 1932 where the top speed was 91mph? OK so the LMSR and particularly the LNER went a little faster, in the few years before WW2 ,than the Cheltenham "flyer" but that was it.The normal running speed of a steam train did not come near to 100 mph
    I see you limit your scope. You do know that railways run all around the world, right? There were 4-4-2s running across the other side of the Atlantic pulling trains with average speeds of 70 mph or greater; and you need 100-mph running to be able to get average speeds in that range.
    I challenge you, no more rhetoric, show us a freight flow that might be economic that is not being taken advantage of
    All of them. And WADR, you're one to be saying "no more rhetoric" when all of your arguments are purely rhetorical. Until you get railfreight into the private sector, there will be no impetus to make money, and there's a lot of money to be made in it. Perhaps a demand to make the market a bit more free would be in order? (which it's a bit too late for, since one of the conditions of that recent bailout was raising the corporate tax rate)
    Oh and Id rather smell exhaust fumes than the guy next to me thanks
    Another rhetorical statement. Feel proud that you make Ireland more dependent on Russia, the Middle East and (ultimately) Germany by travelling alone in an automobile? Also a rather high-minded implication that "the guy next to" you on a seat on the train would not have bathed, as though the only folk that ride the train were of the itinerant sort who can't really afford other forms of transport.

    BTW, one thing that switching from loco-hauled stock to DMU has done is made rail travel somewhat less safe; a DMU hitting a truck at a level crossing would suffer more damage than even the Bo-Bo GMs would in the same situation.
    btw...i didnt invent railwayac...the railway magazine did "The study of railways, or a general interest in them as a hobby, is sometimes known as ferroequinology (literally, "study of iron horses"). The term is rarely used by non-railfans. The Railway Magazine attempted to popularise the term railwayac without success in the early 20th century"
    I stand corrected; you didn't coin the term. Its lack of success does show your POV on railways though.


  • Options
    #1173
    corktina
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,733 ✭✭✭✭corktina


    I dont think I need to reply to your nasty little jibes. so I'll just rubbish your figures with this quote

    "

    On Monday, June 6, 1932, the train broke all railway speed records with a time of 56 mins 47 seconds at an average speed of 81.6 miles per hour (131.3 km/h). Such a journey speed had never been previously recorded and this made this run the fastest railway run in the world. The train was hauled by Castle class 5006 "Tregenna Castle" and was crewed by Driver Ruddock and Fireman Thorp of Old Oak Common shed.[1]

    In September 1932 the time from Swindon to London was further reduced to 65 minutes, giving an extraordinary average speed, for the time, of 71.3 miles per hour (114.7 km/h) over the whole trip of 77¼ miles (124.32 km). This was the first occasion in the history of railways that any train had been scheduled at over 70 miles per hour (110 km/h)."

    Average speed 81.6, (max speed 91 you'll recall)


  • Options
    #1174
    dowlingm
    Registered Users Posts: 5,309 ✭✭✭dowlingm


    CIE wrote: »
    If I ride the train, I don't have to smell everyone else's exhaust for several miles on either side of me.
    Well, the DART, maybe.
    http://www.catf.us/resources/publications/files/No_Escape_from_Diesel_Exhaust.pdf
    regardless of how you get to work, there is no escape from exposure to diesel exhaust, and that pollution levels measured inside cars, buses, and trains during commutes were many times greater than levels in the outdoor air in these cities at that same time. The combined weight of scientific evidence from this new CATF diesel exposure study along with the existing medical studies supports the conclusion that exposure to diesel exhaust during commutes poses a serious public health risk that needs to be addressed.


  • Options
    #1175
    CIE
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,463 ✭✭✭CIE


    corktina wrote: »
    I dont think I need to reply to your nasty little jibes. so I'll just rubbish your figures with this quote
    On Monday, June 6, 1932, the train broke all railway speed records with a time of 56 mins 47 seconds at an average speed of 81.6 miles per hour (131.3 km/h). Such a journey speed had never been previously recorded and this made this run the fastest railway run in the world. The train was hauled by Castle class 5006 "Tregenna Castle" and was crewed by Driver Ruddock and Fireman Thorp of Old Oak Common shed.

    In September 1932 the time from Swindon to London was further reduced to 65 minutes, giving an extraordinary average speed, for the time, of 71.3 miles per hour (114.7 km/h) over the whole trip of 77¼ miles (124.32 km). This was the first occasion in the history of railways that any train had been scheduled at over 70 miles per hour (110 km/h).
    Average speed 81.6, (max speed 91 you'll recall)
    That "rubbishes" nothing, being a singular example in one country. Not to mention that you cannot get an average speed of 81.6 mph with a top speed of 91 mph. (You can with speeds in excess of 100 mph though; look up the F7-class of the Chicago, Milwaukee, St. Paul & Pacific railway, a 4-6-4 steamer, and its predecessor A-class, an unusual 4-4-2 that had the driving rods connected to the first driving axle instead of the second as was usual for Atlantics; if that's not satisfying, then the figures from some German steamers such as 05 002 should bolster.)

    And all of that is aside from the fact that Wikipedia is not an authoritative source itself.
    dowlingm wrote: »
    me wrote: »
    If I ride the train, I don't have to smell everyone else's exhaust for several miles on either side of me
    Well, the DART, maybe
    No, the train in general. So long as it's moving, nothing is to be smelled. I'd probably smell more from a DART seeing as that's actually in the city than a DMU or loco-hauled train running between cities. I've already rolled down my window while driving in traffic jams on the motorway, and I definitely was aware of what I smelled; I've even caught some really bad smells in fast-moving traffic on the motoroway, especially from lorries.

    I'd take what the "Clean Air Task Force" says with more than just a grain of salt. They look like another eco-terrorism "NGO"; their anti-coal stance speaks volumes.


  • Options
    #1176
    corktina
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,733 ✭✭✭✭corktina


    yer right...:rolleyes:

    "this made this run the fastest railway run in the world. "

    stick to facts...


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #1177
    Judgement Day
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,549 ✭✭✭✭Judgement Day


    Please, please let's have a Trains Dribble forum for all this 4-4-0 + 10-20-4 s...te! :D


  • Options
    #1178
    Teddy455
    Closed Accounts Posts: 181 ✭✭Teddy455


    Burma Road

    The one in Turloughmore?

    Travelled on the western rail corridor from limerick to athenry. Train was half empty from Limerick to Athenry. On the way back to Limerick the train was 1/4 full until it got to Ennis and Sixmilebridge where the tain got full up not one seat in the carrage.


  • Options
    #1179
    CIE
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,463 ✭✭✭CIE


    corktina wrote: »
    yer right...:rolleyes:

    "this made this run the fastest railway run in the world. "

    stick to facts...
    I am. Railways ran (and run) in far more places than the British Isles.


  • Options
    #1180
    westtip
    Registered Users Posts: 4,282 ✭✭✭westtip


    Teddy455 wrote: »
    The one in Turloughmore?

    Travelled on the western rail corridor from limerick to athenry. Train was half empty from Limerick to Athenry. On the way back to Limerick the train was 1/4 full until it got to Ennis and Sixmilebridge where the tain got full up not one seat in the carrage.

    How half empty is half empty - does it mean the train was half full? For example if you saw one person sitting in a bay for four seats - was that the kind of half empty you meant? Or was the kind of quarter full??!!

    However interesting to hear the line from Ennis to Limerick - was full.

    However your observation seems to be: phase 1 of WRC from Ennis-Athenry is not being used as much as some may be saying - and the future of the northern branch line from Athenry to Tuam - is dependent on levels of usage on this section. - see the quotes from Dempsey a few posts up.


  • Options
    #1181
    serfboard
    Registered Users Posts: 4,675 ✭✭✭serfboard


    Drove to Cork at the weekend, using the Gort->Crusheen bypass for the first time.

    I didn't time the whole journey on the way down, but Gort->Croom took me 50 minutes.

    On the way back, from the last traffic lights in Cork to Oranmore via the Shannon tunnel took me 2 hours and 10 minutes, and I observed all speed limits all the way.

    And if I want to use public transport to get there, I have a choice of Bus Eireann (which includes, as already mentioned, the X51 which takes 1:20 to Limerick) or Citylink.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #1182
    corktina
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,733 ✭✭✭✭corktina


    its not artifiaclly slower, its essentially slower because of the second-rate way the line was relaid....all the detractors of the WRC have stated they would have been in favour of a properly built line.


  • Options
    #1183
    corktina
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,733 ✭✭✭✭corktina


    CIE wrote: »
    I am. Railways ran (and run) in far more places than the British Isles.

    so the British Isles = the world now does it.... i dont need to say more, you ridicule your own arguements !


  • Options
    #1184
    westtip
    Registered Users Posts: 4,282 ✭✭✭westtip


    Lovely quote on the BE website about th x51
    Travel Limerick-Galway in Just 80 Minutes with High Frequency X51 Express Service from Bus Éireann

    Bus Éireann’s high frequency X51 Express service between Limerick and Galway has just got even quicker with the opening of the Crusheen to Gort Motorway. From Monday 22nd November 2010, X51 services will use the Motorway and Gort by-pass to further cut journey times between the two cities to only 80 minutes each way.


    The X51 Limerick-Galway provides the fastest coach connection between Limerick and Galway and some services will also operate to and from UL.

    “There has already been great customer reaction to the X51 and the further cut in travelling time makes the X51 the ideal way to travel between Limerick and Galway. We would hope that these new services will help promote Limerick as a great destination to visit for business, shopping, days out or study,” said Miriam Flynn, Regional Manager, South West, Bus Éireann.

    Great to see competition between two state owned companies, perhaps someone could come up with a comparison of fares on each alternate form of public transport (city to city fares)

    http://www.buseireann.ie/news.php?id=918&month=Nov


  • Options
    #1185
    corktina
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,733 ✭✭✭✭corktina


    a full half hour quicker than the train!

    how can ANYONE still claim the WRC was not a waste of money!


  • Options
    #1186
    KC61
    Registered Users Posts: 4,316 ✭✭✭KC61


    The Bus Eireann X51 is a commercially run service and not subsidised so I don't really see a conflict - it would be a different matter if both were subsidised.


  • Options
    #1187
    highlydebased
    Registered Users Posts: 7,466 ✭✭✭highlydebased


    Bus Eireann Adult Day Return- 19.80
    Irish Rail adult day return- 20


  • Options
    #1188
    foggy_lad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,373 ✭✭✭✭foggy_lad


    Neon-Circles wrote: »
    Bus Eireann Adult Day Return- 19.80
    Irish Rail adult day return- 20
    What about monthly returns or single journey fares? i would think the bus is way cheaper once you get away from Irish Rails Subsidised rate for day return on this service?

    Bus Eireann's rates here

    Irish Rail do not give out this information on their website for some odd reason.


  • Options
    #1189
    Teddy455
    Closed Accounts Posts: 181 ✭✭Teddy455


    How half empty is half empty - does it mean the train was half full? For example if you saw one person sitting in a bay for four seats - was that the kind of half empty you meant? Or was the kind of quarter full??!!

    When i said half empty i meant half full.
    Why do you have to get so complicated??!!


  • Options
    #1190
    CIE
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,463 ✭✭✭CIE


    corktina wrote: »
    a full half hour quicker than the train!

    how can ANYONE still claim the WRC was not a waste of money
    The WRC was incredibly cheap to restore; only a fraction more spent on curve-banking and signalling would have been required to allow higher speeds, and the advantage is that the basic work has been built. Of course, having DMUs on there that have a top speed that is lower than the top speed allowed on the motorway is no help.

    The parallel motorway cost over nine times more per unit length than restoring the existing railway, has a much higher cost in terms of width of alignment needed, and it doesn't look like it's getting enough traffic to cover its costs. Once the HGVs find it though, watch the average speed go way down.
    corktina wrote: »
    me wrote: »
    Railways ran (and run) in far more places than the British Isles
    so the British Isles = the world now does it
    That's what you appear to be saying, not me, and I don't know how you derived that from what I said. All your steam-traction examples come from there and nowhere else. I don't know what other conclusion to derive from that, so sorry.
    westtip wrote: »
    Great to see competition between two state owned companies
    No such thing and never will be. This kind of artificial "competition" led to the rash of line closures in the 60s. Then again, "Route E-20" shows that the infrastructure planning is well out of Dublin's hands and those doing the planning intend to balkanise Ireland's transport infrastructure. (So funny that there's no demand for a rail corridor in the west but there is apparently demand for an Atlantic Road Corridor running alongside. I've seen this story before.)
    kc61 wrote: »
    The Bus Eireann X51 is a commercially run service and not subsidised
    What's funny is that people believe that. Then again, they also believe that the Luas covers all its costs. States do not run commercial services; private entities do. And private commercial railways own their own alignments on top of that; you see few to no private owners of roads.


  • Options
    #1191
    corktina
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,733 ✭✭✭✭corktina


    CIE wrote: »
    The WRC was incredibly cheap to restore; only a fraction more spent on curve-banking and signalling would have been required to allow higher speeds, and the advantage is that the basic work has been built. Of course, having DMUs on there that have a top speed that is lower than the top speed allowed on the motorway is no help.

    The parallel motorway cost over nine times more per unit length than restoring the existing railway, has a much higher cost in terms of width of alignment needed, and it doesn't look like it's getting enough traffic to cover its costs. Once the HGVs find it though, watch the average speed go way down.That's what you appear to be saying, not me, and I don't know how you derived that from what I said. All your steam-traction examples come from there and nowhere else. I don't know what other conclusion to derive from that, so sorry.No such thing and never will be. This kind of artificial "competition" led to the rash of line closures in the 60s. Then again, "Route E-20" shows that the infrastructure planning is well out of Dublin's hands and those doing the planning intend to balkanise Ireland's transport infrastructure. (So funny that there's no demand for a rail corridor in the west but there is apparently demand for an Atlantic Road Corridor running alongside. I've seen this story before.)What's funny is that people believe that. Then again, they also believe that the Luas covers all its costs. States do not run commercial services; private entities do. And private commercial railways own their own alignments on top of that; you see few to no private owners of roads.

    But if it takes half an hour longer than the Bus, whats the point of it?It would have been nbetter value to have psent the money on more motorway which is used by far more people however much it might cost

    (Oh and the figures I posted weere for the WORLDS fastest train, the fiorst one scheduled at over 70 mph average...try READING the posts!


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #1192
    Carawaystick
    Registered Users Posts: 8,779 ✭✭✭Carawaystick


    CIE wrote: »
    The parallel motorway cost over nine times more per unit length than restoring the existing railway, has a much higher cost in terms of width of alignment needed, and it doesn't look like it's getting enough traffic to cover its costs.

    When it rains a bit, will the motorway be closed for 6 weeks do you think?
    I'd imagine the motorway might carry more than 9 times as many people as the train line - And that's just counting during the hours there's no train services running.


  • Options
    #1193
    parsi
    Site Banned Posts: 5,904 ✭✭✭parsi


    Carawaystick wrote: »
    When it rains a bit, will the motorway be closed for 6 weeks do you think?
    I'd imagine the motorway might carry more than 9 times as many people as the train line - And that's just counting during the hours there's no train services running.

    It's scary -Ballycar has been flooding for many years but yet it seems to be a surprise each time it happens.


  • Options
    #1194
    Transportuser09
    Registered Users Posts: 581 ✭✭✭Transportuser09


    CIE wrote: »
    The WRC was incredibly cheap to restore; only a fraction more spent on curve-banking and signalling would have been required to allow higher speeds, and the advantage is that the basic work has been built. Of course, having DMUs on there that have a top speed that is lower than the top speed allowed on the motorway is no help.

    The parallel motorway cost over nine times more per unit length than restoring the existing railway, has a much higher cost in terms of width of alignment needed, and it doesn't look like it's getting enough traffic to cover its costs. Once the HGVs find it though, watch the average speed go way down..

    Agreed. The speed is a bit ridiculous but as you said the basic work is done and it can be improved upon. Probably not anytime soon the way money is but it is something.


  • Options
    #1195
    Transportuser09
    Registered Users Posts: 581 ✭✭✭Transportuser09


    corktina wrote: »
    But if it takes half an hour longer than the Bus, whats the point of it?It would have been nbetter value to have psent the money on more motorway which is used by far more people however much it might cost

    Just because the bus is quicker doesn't mean it's not worth having the line at all. It's not like it's the only route where this is the case. In any case the line is not a year open. Over time who knows what kind of asset it will be. It may take years but eventually the concept of getting the train may become embedded greater in the local commuter psyche. And before someone mentions 'the Luas started to fill up immediately' remember that the Luas and the WRC serve areas with drastically different population sizes.


  • Options
    #1196
    Transportuser09
    Registered Users Posts: 581 ✭✭✭Transportuser09


    Carawaystick wrote: »
    When it rains a bit, will the motorway be closed for 6 weeks do you think?
    I'd imagine the motorway might carry more than 9 times as many people as the train line - And that's just counting during the hours there's no train services running.

    These areas should have some sort of flood protection works iniated. They can't let a few patches become an Achilles heel for the line. But in general this does not automatically make the route unviable.


  • Options
    #1197
    L1011
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,704 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    CIE wrote: »
    States do not run commercial services; private entities do.

    Thats odd, I could swear this state runs two highly profitable commercial energy providers, amongst other things...


  • Options
    #1198
    mgmt
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,361 ✭✭✭mgmt


    MYOB wrote: »
    Thats odd, I could swear this state runs two highly profitable commercial energy providers, amongst other things...

    Wrong.


    When the government can set the price of electricity or gas, it is effectively a stealth tax. These companies are not run well. Over the years when a government wanted more revenue they jacked the price of energy. Thank **** europe stepped in to stop this distortion.


  • Options
    #1199
    L1011
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,704 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    mgmt wrote: »
    Wrong.


    When the government can set the price of electricity or gas, it is effectively a stealth tax. These companies are not run well. Over the years when a government wanted more revenue they jacked the price of energy. Thank **** europe stepped in to stop this distortion.

    The state hasn't recently taken any profits out of either firm, so your nice little conspiracy theory doesn't work. Their profits have generally gone in to international expansion.

    Prices went up in some surreal attempt to encourage competition by allowing firms with no generation capacity to resell wholesale ESB power / BGE gas below their consumer prices.


  • Options
    #1200
    westtip
    Registered Users Posts: 4,282 ✭✭✭westtip


    Transportuser09 wrote: »
    And before someone mentions 'the Luas started to fill up immediately' remember that the Luas and the WRC serve areas with drastically different population sizes.

    Oh really, we weren't aware of the fact that is the most glaring reasons why WRC is a waste of resources! There is no money left for the nortern branch line so forget this piped dream anyway.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #1201
    mgmt
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,361 ✭✭✭mgmt


    MYOB wrote: »
    The state hasn't recently taken any profits out of either firm, so your nice little conspiracy theory doesn't work. Their profits have generally gone in to international expansion.

    Prices went up in some surreal attempt to encourage competition by allowing firms with no generation capacity to resell wholesale ESB power / BGE gas below their consumer prices.

    Yeah, this took me 2 seconds to find.
    The State-owned electricity company ESB reported a profit of €432m for 2007 as sales reached the €3.5bn mark for the first time in its history, the group's latest annual report reveals.

    The Government was paid a dividend of €129m.

    http://www.independent.ie/business/irish/record-sales-revenue-helps-spark-healthy-profit-for-esb-1431159.html


This discussion has been closed.
Advertisement