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Queen Elizabeth II to visit Ireland.

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    #272
    weepee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 290 ✭✭weepee


    Could someone tell me what is meant by a ''west brit'' ?


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    #273
    eightyfish
    Registered Users Posts: 2,100 ✭✭✭eightyfish


    weepee wrote: »
    Could someone tell me what is meant by a ''west brit'' ?

    Wiki: West Briton (adjective West British; both often shortened to West Brit) is an often pejorative term for an Irish person who is alleged by the user of the term to be excessively sympathetic to the United Kingdom or who takes his/her cultural and social cues from Great Britain.

    bold mine.


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    #274
    weepee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 290 ✭✭weepee


    eightyfish wrote: »
    Wiki: West Briton (adjective West British; both often shortened to West Brit) is an often pejorative term for an Irish person who is alleged by the user of the term to be excessively sympathetic to the United Kingdom or who takes his/her cultural and social cues from Great Britain.

    bold mine.
    Hmmm, never heard that 'term' before-thanks.


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    #275
    getz
    Registered Users Posts: 5,255 ✭✭✭getz


    eightyfish wrote: »
    Wiki: West Briton (adjective West British; both often shortened to West Brit) is an often pejorative term for an Irish person who is alleged by the user of the term to be excessively sympathetic to the United Kingdom or who takes his/her cultural and social cues from Great Britain.

    bold mine.
    a enlightened irish person


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    #276
    SeanW
    Registered Users Posts: 8,746 ✭✭✭SeanW


    Mah, as the mods would say "This thread is generating plenty of heat and very little light."

    I don't really care one way or the other whether the Queen of GB visits or not. It's not likely to affect anyone unless the dissidents crawl out of the woodwork and start bombing things.

    It might have been different if this were late 1969 - I admit I might be tempted to head up to Dublin with a baseball bat (minimum) but times really have changed.

    I really feel sorry for the people getting heated up making comments like "maybe she should apologise for (insert something from history before living memory)" or "you're all a bunch of West Brits." It's a nice reasonably bright day out and most of us have stuff to do. Is this really worth even a second thought, either way?


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    #277
    eightyfish
    Registered Users Posts: 2,100 ✭✭✭eightyfish


    SeanW wrote: »
    It's a nice reasonably bright day out and most of us have stuff to do.

    I don't!

    But yeah, this thread has run its course really. I don't think anyone who's hot under the collar about the queen visiting can add anything new, really.

    Now, if it was Queenie from the second series of Blackadder visiting, I'd definitely check it out.


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    #278
    aDeener
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,487 ✭✭✭aDeener


    eightyfish wrote: »
    Judging by the poll on Joe D yesterday, 2/3 of Irish people are west-Brits according to your definition.

    please tell me, please that you are not implying that the listeners of joe duffy are representative of the whole of ireland. you couldnt possibly be :confused: what an insult


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    #279
    aDeener
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,487 ✭✭✭aDeener


    SeanW wrote: »
    Mah, as the mods would say "This thread is generating plenty of heat and very little light."

    I don't really care one way or the other whether the Queen of GB visits or not. It's not likely to affect anyone unless the dissidents crawl out of the woodwork and start bombing things.

    It might have been different if this were late 1969 - I admit I might be tempted to head up to Dublin with a baseball bat (minimum) but times really have changed.

    I really feel sorry for the people getting heated up making comments like "maybe she should apologise for (insert something from history before living memory)" or "you're all a bunch of West Brits." It's a nice reasonably bright day out and most of us have stuff to do. Is this really worth even a second thought, either way?

    who here has asked for an apology for an event before living memory?


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    #280
    OhNoYouDidn't
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,934 ✭✭✭OhNoYouDidn't


    Eliot Rosewater wrote: »
    Perhaps because the issue of Priest paedophilia is a current affair, happening now, whereas this anti-British begrudgery is based on things that happened nearly 90 years ago.

    From today's times

    Republic's invite for Queen Elizabeth
    Madam, – It appears that the much anticipated invitation to Britain’s Queen Elizabeth II to visit the Republic of Ireland is about to be formally extended, (Front page, June 24th). Following his meeting with the British prime minister David Cameron in Downing Street, Taoiseach Brian Cowen said there was no obstacle preventing a state visit by Queen Elizabeth. Mr Cowen further stated there had been a clear transformation in the relationship between Ireland and Britain which should now be reflected in the “normal courtesies of such a visit”.

    I believe there are still obstacles preventing an invitation being issued to Queen Elizabeth, notwithstanding the unqualified and welcome apology issued by prime minister Cameron to those killed and bereaved on Bloody Sunday.

    In November 2006, a report issued by the Joint Oireachtas Committee on Justice highlighted instances of British obstruction in investigating such crimes as the Dublin and Monaghan bombings of 1974 and the Miami Showband massacre of 1975. Furthermore, in a report carried by The Irish Times on February 20th 2008, former taoiseach Bertie Ahern, in response to a question by Fine Gael leader Enda Kenny in Dáil Éireann, said he believed a file existed which would be of assistance in establishing if members of the British forces “were involved in or knew in advance about the killing in 1989 of Belfast solicitor Pat Finucane”. Mr Ahern also said senior figures in the British security services were unwilling to share this information with the Irish authorities.

    Are the families of those killed and injured in the Dublin and Monaghan bombings less deserving of the truth than those victims of Bloody Sunday? The fact that the British government refuses to co-operate with tribunals of inquiry which were set up by an Act of the Oireachtas to investigate such claims, it is my view that a visit by Queen Elizabeth is most inappropriate at this time. Like many people in this jurisdiction, I look forward to the time when a visit to Ireland by the British head of state will become a normal and uncontroversial event, welcomed by all, but clearly that time is not now. – Yours, etc,

    TOM COOPER,

    Delaford Lawn,

    Knocklyon,

    Dublin 16.

    ---

    While I wouldn't necessarily bother protesting, the patronising tone from people irritates me. There is unfinished business with the commander in chief of the British military. Nothing to do with 'growing up' as a nation to want some form of acceptence, never mind contrition, from the lady whose name these murders happened in.


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    #281
    OhNoYouDidn't
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,934 ✭✭✭OhNoYouDidn't


    SeanW wrote: »

    I really feel sorry for the people getting heated up making comments like "maybe she should apologise for (insert something from history before living memory)" or "you're all a bunch of West Brits." It's a nice reasonably bright day out and most of us have stuff to do. Is this really worth even a second thought, either way?

    To some, yes. It might not raise your interest, but it does to others. So their opinion and right to protest is dismissed.


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    #282
    OhNoYouDidn't
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,934 ✭✭✭OhNoYouDidn't


    eightyfish wrote: »
    Good letter in the Indo today.

    Its not though. The implication is that anyone who objects to the visit is a knuckledragging Provo. Ditto the idea that anyone who doesn't is a tretcherous west brit. That infantile narrative helps no-one.


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    #283
    aDeener
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,487 ✭✭✭aDeener


    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/northern_ireland/10396449.stm

    i see the bbc are still referring to ROI as the irish republic, i thought those petty insults were over and done with. i also see that letter in the indo refers to ROI as the irish republic. that man clearly does not know too much about the place in which he lives.


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    #284
    Subliminal Stimulus
    Closed Accounts Posts: 49 ✭Subliminal Stimulus


    Could it be possible that the Queen is trying to offload NI at this point in time?

    Now that our VAT rates are equal the british economy will glean a lot less benefit from cross-border shopping. Apart from having unrestricted access to the Island of Ireland to keep an eye us Paddies and our evil potato-eating ways, I can see no reason why the British Queen would want to keep control over that particular block of land. We certainly have no oil...

    Also, they are really shooting themselves in the foot by unresevedly apologizing for their actions on Bloody Sunday. Their serving troops must be very worried about what they have done and are currently doing, whether that may be in NI or the middle east.

    There is quite a bit of posturing going on, and I really would like to get to the bottom of it all.



    My stance on the matter at hand:

    For - Allowing a visit from the british queen, provided that it is very short, apologetic, riot-proof, and with keys for the rest Ulster in hand. Clearly publicising her intentions for visiting our island beforehand would also dramatically help to ease the minds of many.

    Against - pretty much any other scenario, and I think I may actually get off my ass and protest, if needs be.


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    #285
    Rev Hellfire
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,346 ✭✭✭Rev Hellfire


    aDeener wrote: »
    i see the bbc are still referring to ROI as the irish republic
    Ohh noze ! We should demand an apology ! :rolleyes:


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    #286
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Lads the Queen of England is a figurehead.
    She has nothing to do with the day to day operations of the British Army and never has had.

    The British army answers to the Ministry of defence,the Prime minister and ultimately the voting public.
    The voting public elected the British army's masters right throughout the troubles and that voting public has moved on as has the British government.

    Those in the British cabinet now [with maybe the exception of Ken Clarke] were never in a cabinet that decided on any British army actions in NI.
    Furthermore a substantial group of people [the majority] in NI are happy to have some small BA presence up there.
    Thats legal according to UN law often quoted on this board to condemn many other things.
    Theres no changing that untill the numbers change up there.

    So on that basis,I think all this object to the queen visiting palava is a whole load of Tosh.

    Let her come,show her a traditional Irish welcome for the head of a neighbouring state and leave the indian war dances about it to the movies and the museum which is where they belong at this stage


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    #287
    aDeener
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,487 ✭✭✭aDeener


    Rev Hellfire wrote: »
    Ohh noze ! We should demand an apology ! :rolleyes:

    did i say that? :rolleyes: i thought we all have matured and moved on and grown up.....


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    #288
    gurramok
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,992 ✭✭✭✭gurramok


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Lads the Queen of England is a figurehead.
    She has nothing to do with the day to day operations of the British Army and never has had.

    Will she apologise(or even discourage for the future) for the actions of Loyalists who killed in her name?


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    #289
    OhNoYouDidn't
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,934 ✭✭✭OhNoYouDidn't


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Lads the Queen of England is a figurehead.
    She has nothing to do with the day to day operations of the British Army and never has had.

    The British army answers to the Ministry of defence,the Prime minister and ultimately the voting public.
    The voting public elected the British army's masters right throughout the troubles and that voting public has moved on as has the British government.

    Those in the British cabinet now [with maybe the exception of Ken Clarke] were never in a cabinet that decided on any British arm actions in NI.

    So on that basis,I think all this object to the queen visiting palava is a whole load of Tosh.

    Let her come,show her a traditional Irish welcome for the head of a neighbouring state and leave the indian war dances about it to the movies and the museum which is where they belong at this stage

    If the Irish commander in chief visited a country whose citizens the defence forces murdered and are currently blocking a tribunal of inquiry in that state I would expect a backlash.

    Why is this different?

    Figurehead or not, she is still the head of a military which are occupying part of the island and some serious atrocities were carried out in her name, some very recently. It might not bother you, but it bothers a lot of people. ANd not all of them are dinosaurs.


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    #290
    sensibleken
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,650 ✭✭✭sensibleken


    Rev Hellfire wrote: »
    Ohh noze ! We should demand an apology ! :rolleyes:


    we should also demand an apology for any one that calls it ROI, the republic of ireland or anything that is not Éire, or, in the English language, Ireland. From the article 4 of the constitution....sorry! Bunreacht na h'Éireann. God I'm no better than those Brits and naming things


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    #291
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    gurramok wrote: »
    Will she apologise(or even discourage for the future) for the actions of Loyalists who killed in her name?
    She didn't order it.
    As well as that I'm sure there are many things the British government decide that she disagree's with so why should she.

    You are harping back to the past.


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    #292
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »
    If the Irish commander in chief visited a country whose citizens the defence forces murdered and are currently blocking a tribunal of inquiry in that state I would expect a backlash.

    Why is this different?
    British elected government orders from a time gone by and not hers.
    Figurehead or not, she is still the head of a military which are occupying part of the island and some serious atrocities were carried out in her name, some very recently. It might not bother you, but it bothers a lot of people. ANd not all of them are dinosaurs.
    Is the occupation illegal under UN law?


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    #293
    aDeener
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,487 ✭✭✭aDeener


    sensibleken wrote: »
    we should also demand an apology for any one that calls it ROI, the republic of ireland or anything that is not Éire, or, in the English language, Ireland. From the article 4 of the constitution....sorry! Bunreacht na h'Éireann. God I'm no better than those Brits and naming things

    funny that all i do is point out a glaring inaccuracy by supposedly one of the top media outlets in the world and you all seem to jump on it. no where did i ask for an apology ffs.

    and its ye here who are constantly preaching about "maturing" and "growing up" :rolleyes: yummy ironing


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    #294
    sensibleken
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,650 ✭✭✭sensibleken


    I think we should apologise to the Picts for destroying their culture :rolleyes:


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    #295
    sensibleken
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,650 ✭✭✭sensibleken


    aDeener wrote: »
    funny that all i do is point out a glaring inaccuracy by supposedly one of the top media outlets in the world and you all seem to jump on it. no where did i ask for an apology ffs.

    and its ye here who are constantly preaching about "maturing" and "growing up" :rolleyes: yummy ironing

    never said you did mate.


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    #296
    Iwasfrozen
    Registered Users Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭Iwasfrozen


    sensibleken wrote: »
    we should also demand an apology for any one that calls it ROI, the republic of ireland or anything that is not Éire, or, in the English language, Ireland. From the article 4 of the constitution....sorry! Bunreacht na h'Éireann. God I'm no better than those Brits and naming things
    • There has to be a way to differ southern Ireland to northern Ireland.
    • Southern Ireland is a republic
    • Southern Ireland is Irish
    • Southern Irish is the Irish republic.
    • Northern Ireland is not a republic.
    • Do you always call the Ivory Coast Côte d'Ivoire? Or America the United States of America.
    • If not should you apologise to the nation?
    See my friend, simple logic. It's a pity even such basic things seem to be beyond nationalists.


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    #297
    sensibleken
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,650 ✭✭✭sensibleken


    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    • There has to be a way to differ southern Ireland to northern Ireland.
    • Southern Ireland is a republic
    • Southern Ireland is Irish
    • Southern Irish is the Irish republic.
    • Northern Ireland is not a republic.
    • Do you always call the Ivory Coast Côte d'Ivoire? Or America the United States of America.
    • If not should you apologise to the nation?
    See my friend, simple logic. It's a pity even such basic things seem to be beyond nationalists.

    dude i was being sarcastic.


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    #298
    aDeener
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,487 ✭✭✭aDeener


    sensibleken wrote: »
    never said you did mate.

    no but you were being highly sarcastic and condescending, implying that this would be something i would want an apology for - who you quoted and who you thanked made this very obvious son :rolleyes:


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    #299
    sensibleken
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,650 ✭✭✭sensibleken


    aDeener wrote: »
    no but you were being highly sarcastic and condescending, implying that this would be something i would want an apology for - who you quoted and who you thanked made this very obvious son :rolleyes:


    Well then I apologise. I didn't realise I was even talking to you.

    btw, ma?


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    #300
    aDeener
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,487 ✭✭✭aDeener


    sensibleken wrote: »
    Well then I apologise. I didn't realise I was even talking to you.

    btw, ma?

    no need for an apology :pac:

    i only pointed that out due to there being history between the bbc and rte where rte would refer to NI as the 6 counties and bbc to roi as the irish republic. really silly shite by both parties and i thought that it was all over and one with. thats all.


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    #301
    OhNoYouDidn't
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,934 ✭✭✭OhNoYouDidn't


    Deleted User wrote: »
    British elected government orders from a time gone by and not hers.

    Doesn't matter. Its her army. As someone said before, I must have missed her condemnation of the loyalists killing in her name like ones made by various heads of state and government in the 26 counties, and indeed the pope, that Republicans endured.
    Deleted User wrote: »
    Is the occupation illegal under UN law?

    No, but I'm not sure why that matters. Me kicking you in the balls isn't illegal under UN law, still going to annoy you though.


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