Queen Elizabeth II to visit Ireland.

Pride Fighter

The Queen of the UK has been invited to visit Ireland and a state visit expected pretty soon. Personally I am opposed to this, the idea of monarchy and one person just as a result of genealogy and primogeniture being a ruler of a country is sickening to me as a democrat. I'd feel the same if it was the the Dutch Queen or any other hereditary ruler. Thoughts?

There is the link http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/0623/politics.html

oppenheimer1

Pride Fighter wrote: »

The Queen of the UK has been invited to visit Ireland and a state visit expected pretty soon. Personally I am opposed to this, the idea of monarchy and one person just as a result of genealogy and primogeniture being a ruler of a country is sickening to me as a democrat. I'd feel the same if it was the the Dutch Queen or any other hereditary ruler. Thoughts?

There is the link http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/0623/politics.html

How the UK chooses their head of state is their problem, it is not for us to judge. If the Queen visits Ireland on an official visit as a representative of her country why wouldn't we welcome her.

imme

Were you also opposed to the visits of other foreign Heads of State who happen to be monarchs?
Harald of Norway and Karl Gustav from Sweden and the like.

I don`t have a problem with it.

sceptre

I've very few objections to how another country picks their head of state as long as they don't indulge in eating people. They should at least get the same welcome as they extended to our head of state, which as I recall last time was pretty good and included tea, biscuits and probably crumpets - one of five or six meeting occasions in total, all of which have taken place in the UK as far as I recall.

Odds are good that there will be less union flag waving on the streets of Dublin compared with the last state visit by a UK head of state but that's progress and the temptation of 24-hour reality TV as an alternative. Protocol's the most important part of a state visit; I'm sure it'll probably be easier to protest for people that want to than it was when GW Bush came zipping through here and people seemed to dislike that one personally and at a level dislike of someone who drowns kittens for weekend fun. Beatrix from the Netherlands had by all accounts a good time when she visited here in 1990, Harald V of Norway was here four years ago and almost no-one noticed, ditto when Albert II from Belgium came for tea in 2007. Juan Carlos from Spain visited in 1986 and it was noteworthy, though I can't remember why (then again, southern Europeans are more tanned than we are so it was probably exotic).

Possibly best if we send someone other than Ronan O'Gara to shake hands with her as she gets off the plane though.

dan_d

Why should you object to it? Unless she's going to be visiting your house and impacting on your daily routine, it's not a big deal. I doubt that many people will take any notice of it either. We've moved on. Dublin is constantly full of British people, and we're all happy to go shopping in London and up the North. Her position is a choice of the British people, and is nothing to do with us.

There's bigger things in life, to be honest.

FlutterinBantam

Make the lady welcome, and show them that we have matured as a state, and are a confident people going forward.

jacaranda

I agree. It's time we grew up as a country and stopped blaming "D'inglish" for everything. It is a great sign that this visit can be contemplated, so lets celebrate that and enjoy the friendship we have with our nearest neighbour.

mickstupp

dan_d wrote: »

Why should you object to it? Unless she's going to be visiting your house and impacting on your daily routine, it's not a big deal. I doubt that many people will take any notice of it either. We've moved on. Dublin is constantly full of British people, and we're all happy to go shopping in London and up the North. Her position is a choice of the British people, and is nothing to do with us.

There's bigger things in life, to be honest.

I think most of us have moved on, but I think unfortunately there's still plenty who refuse to. I can imagine someone chucking an egg, at the very least.

who the fug

Will ye give her a Certificate of Irishness for free, as we can't afford to pay for one

johngalway

I'd rather she stayed where she is.

Brendog

She may apologise for some of the atrocities that England has put Ireland through. David Cameron apologised for bloody sunday, she might do the same.

Its not going to be safe at all!! alot of people will be seriously outraged. to be honest I cannot see her leaving the Aras once during her visit.

meditraitor

Who cares if she comes, makes no difference to the Joe on the street as long as it doesnt cost the Taxpayer..

LikePlace

She'll probably just end up getting locked in Temple Bar with Mary McAleese and buying a silly hat.

(Unashamed mockup of queen in hat at http://bit.ly/aXuHX4 )

djpbarry

Brendog wrote: »

David Cameron apologised for bloody sunday...

On behalf of the British people, which includes Lizzy.

ei.sdraob

Hand her back the keys to the country, its trashed

bmaxi

I've no objection to the Queen visiting but I can imagine a few regular posters on this forum will be apoplectic. The English are proud of their monarchy and its heritage, why should it bother us how they choose them?

Permabear

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FTA69

All part of the normalisation process I suppose, similar to the recent attempt to have a triumphalist British Army march through Belfast (which thankfully was disrupted.) The problem, however, is that the state which she represents still occupies a part of this country, thus I would think such a visit would be inappropriate to say the least.

Permabear

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The_Minister

FTA69 wrote: »

All part of the normalisation process I suppose, similar to the recent attempt to have a triumphalist British Army march through Belfast (which thankfully was disrupted.) The problem, however, is that the state which she represents still occupies a part of this country, thus I would think such a visit would be inappropriate to say the least.

Occupied because:
(1) The majority of people living there want it that way.
(2) It would go to hell in a handbasket if they left.

Britain don't want the North anymore, but if they offered it to us tomorrow we'd say no as well - we couldn't handle it.

Cavehill Red

Yet another thread of forelock tugging mongs and their delusions that welcoming the head of a state guilty of repeated genocides and an ongoing occupation of part of this island is somehow 'showing their maturity'.
It's not - it's showing your inate servility.

ei.sdraob

donegalfella wrote: »

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careful now or you might endup being labelled a west-brit

Coillte_Bhoy

donegalfella wrote: »

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Our country encompasses the whole island. Our state ends at the border with NI

Judgement Day

My main reservation about the proposed visit is a security one and a worry about the long term consequences for Irish tourism if there are significant protests. Already SF have come out against the visit and they are in the tame camp! I don't think that given the increasing level of dissident republican activity it would be safe for the visit to take place in the foreseeable future.

As an aside, I heard a vox pop on Newstalk this morning amongst which was the classic comment by someone with a heavy Dublin accent who said 'I'm against everything British'. The said same individual probably reads the 'Irish' Sun, drinks Bass and supports Man.United. I despair.

Permabear

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Cavehill Red

donegalfella wrote: »

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No, it's a joke. A sick joke. And a vassal state.

dlofnep

Perhaps she might as a gesture of good will, remove the title of OBE from Derek Wilford in lieu of the recent Saville Inquiry findings - to show that she too has matured.

aDeener

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

Make the lady welcome, and show them that we have matured as a state, and are a confident people going forward.

any more clichés?

djpbarry

bmaxi wrote: »

The English are proud of their monarchy and its heritage...

I think a large chunk of the British population recognise that the royal family are little more than a tourist attraction these days. Ever been to Buckingham Palace on a weekend? The similarities with Disneyland are hard to miss.

Coillte_Bhoy wrote: »

Our country encompasses the whole island. Our state ends at the border with NI

The words 'hair' and 'splitting' spring to mind.

aDeener

donegalfella wrote: »

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wtf has that got to do with anything? they are voted in by people :rolleyes: typical nonsense

djpbarry

aDeener wrote: »

wtf has that got to do with anything? they are voted in by people :rolleyes: typical nonsense

The royal family could be done away with by the British people if they wished. But they choose not to and we should respect that.

dwaincasey

I would certainly object to this proposed state visit and how dare Brian Cowen suggest that there are no obstacles blocking this from happening:mad:

I for one will be protesting if this event goes forward. With eggs or no eggs?

aDeener

djpbarry wrote: »

The royal family could be done away with by the British people if they wished. But they choose not to and we should respect that.

how often do they vote on that? to compare the voting of our TDs with the royal family is ridiculous

Sleepy

It makes me so proud to be Irish when I see fellow citizens of the republic denounce it's existence...

djpbarry

aDeener wrote: »

how often do they vote on that? to compare the voting of our TDs with the royal family is ridiculous

It's a perfectly valid comparison - Ireland has one form of government, the UK has another, each of which may be changed by the people within those countries, if they so wish. What part of that is ridiculous?

PomBear

She knew full well of the atrocities that have been put through by 'Her Forces' on this island through her tenure and beforehand. It's not a question of maturity here. It's a question of knowledge.

Run_to_da_hills

I would have absolutly no objection to the queen coming over to Ireland.

The "War" is over, they have apologised for possibly one of the biggest atrocities of the troubles, we must move on. The city will no doubt get a boost
in tourist revenue during her visit.

However I would object to a state of the art surveylance system ito be installed across the city for her visit and not removed after she leaves.

This is what has happened in Vancouver after the Winter olympics.

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/british-columbia/story/2010/01/18/bc-olympic-surveillance-cameras-robertson.html

aDeener

djpbarry wrote: »

It's a perfectly valid comparison - Ireland has one form of government, the UK has another, each of which may be changed by the people within those countries, if they so wish. What part of that is ridiculous?

please answer how often do they vote to retain the royal family?

aDeener

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

I would have absolutly no objection to the queen coming over to Ireland.

The "War" is over, they have apologised for possibly one of the biggest atrocities of the troubles, we must move on. The city will no doubt get a boost
in tourist revenue during her visit.

However I would object to a state of the art surveylance system ito be installed across the city for her visit and not removed after she leaves.

This is what has happened in Vancouver after the Winter olympics.

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/british-columbia/story/2010/01/18/bc-olympic-surveillance-cameras-robertson.html

i don't believe the commander in chief of the army who committed said atrocity has however?

eightyfish

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

However I would object to a state of the art surveylance system ito be installed across the city for her visit and not removed after she leaves.

This is what has happened in Vancouver after the Winter olympics.

This is Ireland, not Canada. And we're broke. Our "sate of art surveylance system" is probably a few webcams and a guy with binoculars. I don't think you have much to worry about.

Pauleta

Im sure this young man will be out in force again

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_KOo7HznCCw8/ReGM82qiGtI/AAAAAAAAAEQ/FBdgfS_hAfo/s400/croke.jpg

Dyr

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

I would have absolutly no objection to the queen coming over to Ireland.

The "War" is over, they have apologised for possibly one of the biggest atrocities of the troubles, we must move on. The city will no doubt get a boost
in tourist revenue during her visit.

She can lay memorial wreaths on both Parnell and Talbot street. She seems to like laying wreaths

Run_to_da_hills

eightyfish wrote: »

This is Ireland, not Canada. And we're broke. Our "sate of art surveylance system" is probably a few webcams and a guy with binoculars. I don't think you have much to worry about.

It will be funded by the EU of course, the Queens visit will just be just another excuse to install it.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/6210255/EU-funding-Orwellian-artificial-intelligence-plan-to-monitor-public-for-abnormal-behaviour.html

Permabear

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Judgement Day

aDeener wrote: »

please answer how often do they vote to retain the royal family?

You don't get to vote for the monarchy - bloody peasant.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JvKIWjnEPNY

doolox

While we as Irish had a bad experience with hereditary forms of government other countries such as Japan and the UK seem to feel the need for a living embodiment of the nation state, a king.

It can be seen in history that the English had a very bad experience with representative democratic government, the Commonwealth under Oliver Cromwell in the 1640's.

This was such a repressive regime where forms of entertainment such as dancing, theatre, banqueting were banned by the Puritans and enemies of the State were killed just as ruthlessly as the more infamous wars against the Catholic and Royalist Irish in 1641.

The English restored the Monarchy in limited form in 1660 with Charles II and have been progressively and gradually limiting the powers of the Monarchy since then.

It is possible that the House of Lords will be abolished in its present form and the Monarchy could be reduced in size and scope to something resembling the Swedish setup where the King goes around in a normal car and lives in an apartment very much more middle class than the British setup.

Our own experience of Republicanism has resulted in years of stagnation, child abuse, neglect of voiceless sectors of society, and too much reliance on a corrupt and careless church and is far from perfect.

If the English prefer a different system to our own we should accommodate them in it without approving or endorsing the crimes of the past. History shows the the English,Scots and Welsh suffered as much as the Irish from tyrannical rule in the past, with Transportation, land clearances, bad factory working conditions, Press Gangs for forced enlistment in the Navy, barbaric forms of Capital Punishment etc be meted out to the English just as much as to the Irish.

The big difference was the Famine, a huge economic and structural political disaster which in no small part led to the radicalisation of a substantial part of the Irish population and the eventual separation of the two countries.

There are processes in place which it is hoped will eventually lead to a closer link between the two Island nations, if the British were to allow the possibility of a Roman Catholic Prime Minister by abolishing remaining traces of Laws forbidding Roman Catholics to hold the post and other remaining prohibitions and restrictions to public office then we might get to the stage of having normal good relations with Britain.

Poly

Bambi wrote: »

She seems to like laying wreaths

and distant cousins

aDeener

donegalfella wrote: »

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ahh so it has never been held? unlike here where we vote for our TDs every 5 years, right i see. thanks for clearing that up. moving on....

Permabear

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Judgement Day

If the justification for the monarchy was purely on tourism grounds it would be worth retaining - a pity our own presidential system isn't as big an attraction. Even in the French Republic there is plenty of pomp & circumstance surrounding the presidency - it could be the same here - bring back the Blue Hussars: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_Hussars. Let's have less begrudgery it shows what a major inferiority complex some people have.

aDeener

donegalfella wrote: »

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God you cant be serious can you? you are the one who said we must look to ourselves and the role of genealogy when appointing leaders, then listing off TDs. you were the one making the comparison. unbelievable, although certainly not surprising.....