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Sky: "Protesters Storm Irish Parliament"

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    #272
    OhNoYouDidn't
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,934 ✭✭✭OhNoYouDidn't


    Scofflaw wrote: »
    I don't mind if you get angry - but while many people are angry, only a few people with limited imaginations and poor impulse control think that going and hitting things (and people) is some kind of solution. Anger isn't a substitute for thought, or even a good emotional framework to do your thinking in.

    Seriously, so far it's been a case of "break in to Leinster House"...and then..."sit in Leinster House"...and then...then what? What's your program for reform? How are you going about gathering mass popular support for your program of reform? How does "occupying" Leinster House advance your program for reform?

    The point has been made elsewhere that actions like trying to break into Leinster House can play right into the hands of the international money markets and the finance boys - have you anything useful and achievable to set against the fact that your actions will most probably be manipulated for gain by the very people who profited from the situation you're protesting?

    regards,
    Scofflaw

    Complete rubbish. The Irish state has sold the fact that the people are docile and compliant to the 'market'.

    If you think some specualtor is going to be influenced by the SWP playing a bit of push and shove with the Gardaí you inhabit a different planet to the rest of us.

    People are entitled to protest against the entire setup, and you patronising them from behind your keyboard is inane.


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    #273
    Morpheus
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 2,688 Mod ✭✭✭✭Morpheus


    Scofflaw wrote: »
    Also, perhaps someone can tell me what the protesters would do if they successfully got into Leinster House? Rearrange the furniture? Go to the bar? Or is it just a case of young lads trying to shove themselves into something, and having little idea what they'd do if they succeeded*?

    curiously,
    Scofflaw

    *sexual innuendo entirely intentional

    Well, lets see,

    they would have had to seriously batter and injure the gardai at the gates to get in firstly.

    Now if they had forced their way past them, they were entering govt property and are subject to a whole new world of laws and conclusions to when they were outside the gates.

    They would have at this stage in their (peaceful?) protest, commited two offence's against the state (at least), one was that they had to have seriously assaulted members of the gardaí and the second was that they forcibly and without permission entered govt property - with weapons (flagpoles and their own batons that they attacked the gate gardai with).

    The next stage would be that behind the now injured gardai at the gate there WOULD have been certain members of our security forces who ARE armed and trained to deal with this situation.

    Faced with a mob of armed rioters who have made their intentions clear, they would rightfully be correct to act to subdue these people either by threatening to open fire either in defence of govt property, in defence of themselves or in defence of their comrades or actually shooting someone to stop them - i would hope it would not come to this.

    So mostly what they would have done forcing the gate, is to end up possibly either being dead or being gravely injured for their efforts and most certainly being arrested and facing lengthy terms in jail for attacking gardaí.

    They wouldnt appear as martyrs to the majority of Irish people, they would appear as a rioting mob of scumbags who are unwilling to protest peacefully and (like the rest of the population) willing to be patient and democratically remove the current government - and worst of all, they are comparing themselves to the ilk of the 1916 easter rising heroes? i feel sick reading crap pop propeganda like that....

    I heartily and personally agree with the right to publicly protest in front of government buildings, but not with the stupidity of uncontrolled anger and hatred that was shown by a very small number of eegits last week against members of the gardai who are just doing a job and are suffering just as much as everyone else (financially) who are by certain laws prevented from showing their agreement with the protestors (even though many of them would like to im sure).


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    #274
    Scofflaw
    Registered Users Posts: 23,283 ✭✭✭✭Scofflaw


    OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »
    Complete rubbish. The Irish state has sold the fact that the people are docile and compliant to the 'market'.

    If you think some specualtor is going to be influenced by the SWP playing a bit of push and shove with the Gardaí you inhabit a different planet to the rest of us.

    I inhabit the same one where Sky can describe this incident as "protesters storm Irish parliament", and where that line can be repeated by enough media outlets to influence the price of the euro. Since you believe that exactly the same thing can be achieved in reverse by selling "the fact that the people are docile and compliant to the 'market'", I have no idea why you think there's something outlandish about my view.
    OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »
    People are entitled to protest against the entire setup, and you patronising them from behind your keyboard is inane.

    So, in other words, you have no answer to why you're doing this except that you see this as some kind of "entitlement".

    regards,
    Scofflaw


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    #275
    zenno
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,377 ✭✭✭zenno


    I can't believe what i'm hearing here, what a pile of commented s hite. any and all FF supporters here will as usual defend FF with their blatanted disregard for opposition against them no matter what. how can you discuss anything of importance on this when you are attacked by "mods" that are hard encoded into the FF clan. this f ucking site is run by FF imo.

    plus you can give me all the f ucking infractions you like. as i said before people need to get up and out there and show these b*stards in the dail what is right. come tuesday with enough people hopefully a few thousand they will smash the doors down and stop entry to the dail from gaurds and government for a long enough period of time as to make our point. i'm sick of these FF supporters here with their attitude as if they were running the country and you think you know how the country should be run. if it was all left up to you lot britain would still be running this country.


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    #276
    OhNoYouDidn't
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,934 ✭✭✭OhNoYouDidn't


    Scofflaw wrote: »
    I inhabit the same one where Sky can describe this incident as "protesters storm Irish parliament", and where that line can be repeated by enough media outlets to influence the price of the euro. Since you believe that exactly the same thing can be achieved in reverse by selling "the fact that the people are docile and compliant to the 'market'", I have no idea why you think there's something outlandish about my view.

    the SWP could detonate a thermonuclear device outside Leinster house and it won't effect the euro. We aren't that relevent.
    Scofflaw wrote: »
    So, in other words, you have no answer to why you're doing this except that you see this as some kind of "entitlement".

    Well I wasn't there and amn't involved in the groups that were, but yes, I do think I have an entitlement to protest failed government policy. Are you arguing otherwise?


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    #277
    OhNoYouDidn't
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,934 ✭✭✭OhNoYouDidn't


    Morphéus wrote: »
    Well, lets see,

    they would have had to seriously batter and injure the gardai at the gates to get in firstly.

    Now if they had forced their way past them, they were entering govt property and are subject to a whole new world of laws and conclusions to when they were outside the gates.

    They would have at this stage in their (peaceful?) protest, commited two offence's against the state (at least), one was that they had to have seriously assaulted members of the gardaí and the second was that they forcibly and without permission entered govt property - with weapons (flagpoles and their own batons that they attacked the gate gardai with).

    The next stage would be that behind the now injured gardai at the gate there WOULD have been certain members of our security forces who ARE armed and trained to deal with this situation.

    Faced with a mob of armed rioters who have made their intentions clear, they would rightfully be correct to act to subdue these people either by threatening to open fire either in defence of govt property, in defence of themselves or in defence of their comrades or actually shooting someone to stop them - i would hope it would not come to this.

    So mostly what they would have done forcing the gate, is to end up possibly either being dead or being gravely injured for their efforts and most certainly being arrested and facing lengthy terms in jail for attacking gardaí.

    They wouldnt appear as martyrs to the majority of Irish people, they would appear as a rioting mob of scumbags who are unwilling to protest peacefully and (like the rest of the population) willing to be patient and democratically remove the current government - and worst of all, they are comparing themselves to the ilk of the 1916 easter rising heroes? i feel sick reading crap pop propeganda like that....

    I heartily and personally agree with the right to publicly protest in front of government buildings, but not with the stupidity of uncontrolled anger and hatred that was shown by a very small number of eegits last week against members of the gardai who are just doing a job and are suffering just as much as everyone else (financially) who are by certain laws prevented from showing their agreement with the protestors (even though many of them would like to im sure).

    Its this kind of fantasy flowing through Garda heads when faced with protests that leads to people bing dragged out the back of anglo and kicked into hospital...


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    #278
    prinz
    Registered Users Posts: 14,598 ✭✭✭✭prinz


    OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »
    Its this kind of fantasy flowing through Garda heads when faced with protests that leads to people bing dragged out the back of anglo and kicked into hospital...

    Any source for this or is it just unsubstantiated nonsense? My money's on it being nonsense tbh. Ironic that you brought fantasy into it.


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    #279
    Morpheus
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 2,688 Mod ✭✭✭✭Morpheus


    Im sorry,

    You are completely right,

    once you beat the heads off those horrible oinks at the gates and smash down the protective barriers and charge across the forecourt, the armed oinks and military oinks will cower in fear and run away and you can then proceed to smash your way into the main chamber where you can rip up the seats and throw them at the horrible gits who blew all your money below...

    thats very democratic of you...

    also if you believe "nothing" will happen you are a very foolish and thoughtless lot... all you will succeed in doing is destroying everyone elses right to peaceful protest on the day and quite possibly getting innocent people hurt in the process.

    Then again, when has the MAJORITY of this islands PEOPLES choices or decisions (Currently FF and Greens - God help us for choosing them) EVER stopped certain groups from TRYING to impose their own ideals.

    I advise anyone who wants to peacefully protest, to NOT turn up on Terror Tuesday and to select a different day and try to provide your own stewards to ensure maximum effect and minimum negative press.

    Meanwhile let this unruly mob of gangsters and dregs of society have their "go" at the gardaí as thats all they seem to be advocating, the special B's are looooong gone but the riot police will most likely be there (shame that they are needed at all).


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    #280
    zenno
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,377 ✭✭✭zenno


    it's very hard to train sheep i'm not sure if it is even possible.


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    #281
    scr123
    Closed Accounts Posts: 234 ✭✭scr123


    zenno wrote: »
    I can't believe what i'm hearing here, what a pile of commented s hite. any and all FF supporters here will as usual defend FF with their blatanted disregard for opposition against them no matter what. how can you discuss anything of importance on this when you are attacked by "mods" that are hard encoded into the FF clan. this f ucking site is run by FF imo.

    plus you can give me all the f ucking infractions you like. as i said before people need to get up and out there and show these b*stards in the dail what is right. come tuesday with enough people hopefully a few thousand they will smash the doors down and stop entry to the dail from gaurds and government for a long enough period of time as to make our point. i'm sick of these FF supporters here with their attitude as if they were running the country and you think you know how the country should be run. if it was all left up to you lot britain would still be running this country.


    I am FF and have no problem taking on the chin the endles criticism

    I have no problem with FF going in to opposition based purely on the fact I do not like a one party state

    My ideal would be for FF to get 65 seats in the next election so that the country would have an alternative

    The big problem I have is the memory of 1982 when FF were kicked out of office with a vengence by an electorate who had been fed lunacy by the opposition that FF had ruined the country. Similar to now

    In the first two months after the election 21000 were added to the dole and from thereon the situation became a disaster. Busineses throughtout the country panicked at the new government .

    Without a shadow of doubt when the inevitable FG/Labour coalition comes to power the exact same thing will happen. They are poles apart and panic will set in around the country with tens of thousands losing their jobs.

    Right now the 75% who will not vote FF totally and utterly refuse to say what they would have done over the last 10 years and more serious they blatantly refuse to say how they are going to cure our economic problems. How can one have faith in such cowardice ?

    I accept its time for a new government but believe me the terror I feel at whats on the way with FG/Lab is genuine !!


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    #282
    Denerick
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,488 ✭✭✭Denerick


    zenno wrote: »
    I can't believe what i'm hearing here, what a pile of commented s hite. any and all FF supporters here will as usual defend FF with their blatanted disregard for opposition against them no matter what. how can you discuss anything of importance on this when you are attacked by "mods" that are hard encoded into the FF clan. this f ucking site is run by FF imo.

    plus you can give me all the f ucking infractions you like. as i said before people need to get up and out there and show these b*stards in the dail what is right. come tuesday with enough people hopefully a few thousand they will smash the doors down and stop entry to the dail from gaurds and government for a long enough period of time as to make our point. i'm sick of these FF supporters here with their attitude as if they were running the country and you think you know how the country should be run. if it was all left up to you lot britain would still be running this country.

    Just go away and read a book, please. The less time you people stop spending as outraged imbeciles with a chip on your impecabbly middle class shoulders the better. Have you ever actually sat down, reflected on yourself, and concluded that you are exactly the kind of person South Park makes its living by ridiculing?


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    #283
    gandalf
    Registered Users Posts: 26,458 ✭✭✭✭gandalf


    OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »
    Complete rubbish. The Irish state has sold the fact that the people are docile and compliant to the 'market'.

    If you think some specualtor is going to be influenced by the SWP playing a bit of push and shove with the Gardaí you inhabit a different planet to the rest of us.

    People are entitled to protest against the entire setup, and you patronising them from behind your keyboard is inane.

    Bollix as you can see from the title of this thread which was the headline run by Sky News (and their anterior motives!) even a minor incident can be snowballed into something it isn't and then we are in a whole other world of pain. I am sure that all the other international media outlets sat up when they saw the breaking news but when they saw the footage of the "incident" they laughed and dropped it. But if tomorrow night turns into a repeat of the bollix that occurred during the so called "Love Ulster" marches then all the positive spin that we have received goes down the drain and we then become the next in line whipping boy after Greece.

    The pain we are feeling now is absolutely nothing compared to the pain we will feel if the IMF have to come in to bail us out. Crap like this so called protest tomorrow night will do nothing positive to get us out of this situation but it will send us down the slippery slope even more.

    And for the record I am not a FF supporter, I have never voted for them. My past allegiances have been with the Labour party but since they are tied at the coat tails of unions who are living in an alternative fantasy land I will not be voting for them again.


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    #284
    dan_d
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,819 ✭✭✭dan_d


    What happens if you don't support FF and don't agree with this protest tomorrow?? (which by the way, I haven't heard a single word about outside this site....doesn't bode well for attendance). What does that make me??

    Zenno I'm absoultely intrigued as to what your alternative is. When you've smashed the Dail up, smashed the gardai up, and smashed the politicians up...what happens then??You go into power? Somebody other than FF goes into power???How do they stay there and run the country??

    Protest all you like, but preferably without resorting to public behaviour that was normally seen around the Middle Ages.The only person you'll be hurting is yourself - and I mean that quite literally.


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    #285
    zenno
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,377 ✭✭✭zenno


    Denerick wrote: »
    Just go away and read a book, please. The less time you people stop spending as outraged imbeciles with a chip on your impecabbly middle class shoulders the better. Have you ever actually sat down, reflected on yourself, and concluded that you are exactly the kind of person South Park makes its living by ridiculing?

    I think i have hit a sore point there. why don't you go and read a book maybe one about standing up for yourself and acting like a proper irish citizen ?. if what i say annoys you you should be somewere else. it is quite obvious you were brought up as a person to do what you are told no matter what circumstances that may be. i pitty you.


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    #286
    gandalf
    Registered Users Posts: 26,458 ✭✭✭✭gandalf


    Zenno how do you suggest we get out of the mess we are in?


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    #287
    Scofflaw
    Registered Users Posts: 23,283 ✭✭✭✭Scofflaw


    OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »
    the SWP could detonate a thermonuclear device outside Leinster house and it won't effect the euro. We aren't that relevent.

    Yes, we're never mentioned in the international news at all. I can see why you think I live on a different planet from you!
    OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »
    Well I wasn't there and amn't involved in the groups that were, but yes, I do think I have an entitlement to protest failed government policy. Are you arguing otherwise?

    You're welcome to protest all you like, but you're not welcome to use violence - and the lads outside Leinster House were using violence, and presumably plan on using violence again. Pretending it was a "peaceful protest" and they were "set upon" by Gardai doesn't survive even a brief viewing of the video.

    regards,
    Scofflaw


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    #288
    OhNoYouDidn't
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,934 ✭✭✭OhNoYouDidn't


    deadtiger wrote: »
    Bollix as you can see from the title of this thread which was the headline run by Sky News (and their anterior motives!) even a minor incident can be snowballed into something it isn't and then we are in a whole other world of pain. I am sure that all the other international media outlets sat up when they saw the breaking news but when they saw the footage of the "incident" they laughed and dropped it. But if tomorrow night turns into a repeat of the bollix that occurred during the so called "Love Ulster" marches then all the positive spin that we have received goes down the drain and we then become the next in line whipping boy after Greece.

    The pain we are feeling now is absolutely nothing compared to the pain we will feel if the IMF have to come in to bail us out. Crap like this so called protest tomorrow night will do nothing positive to get us out of this situation but it will send us down the slippery slope even more.

    And for the record I am not a FF supporter, I have never voted for them. My past allegiances have been with the Labour party but since they are tied at the coat tails of unions who are living in an alternative fantasy land I will not be voting for them again.

    Speculator A on Wall St. "I was going to run the ISEQ/euro/Irish debt but I wont because there are no protests".

    Speculator B in London. "I was't going to run the ISEQ/euro/Irish debt but I will now because there are protests".

    Get real - the markets will target us because they see money, not whether there are some union marches on the Dail.

    And thats aside from the point that FF are answerable to US, not some vague financial construct they don't understand.


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    #289
    OhNoYouDidn't
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,934 ✭✭✭OhNoYouDidn't


    Scofflaw wrote: »
    Yes, we're never mentioned in the international news at all. I can see why you think I live on a different planet from you!

    But if you think that protest matters one jot to how the international markets will treat or mistreat Ireland or Europe, you don't understand the basics of how it all worls.
    Scofflaw wrote: »
    You're welcome to protest all you like, but you're not welcome to use violence - and the lads outside Leinster House were using violence, and presumably plan on using violence again. Pretending it was a "peaceful protest" and they were "set upon" by Gardai doesn't survive even a brief viewing of the video.

    Again, I didn't, but the Gardaí generally don't need an excuse to lay in, they rely on FF apparatchik like you and the rest of the Joe Duffy brigade to do it for them after the fact.


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    #290
    Morpheus
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 2,688 Mod ✭✭✭✭Morpheus


    you say they generally dont need an excuse? Facts please?

    They had a bloody good excuse last tuesday when the bunch of numpties tried to "storm" the gates. they just looked like a hateful spiteful bunch of naysayers and anarchists.


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    #291
    prinz
    Registered Users Posts: 14,598 ✭✭✭✭prinz


    OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »
    Again, I didn't, but the Gardaí generally don't need an excuse to lay in....

    Could you provide any evidence whatsoever of your earlier claim of gardaí 'dragging people round the back of Anglo to beat them'?


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    #292
    OhNoYouDidn't
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,934 ✭✭✭OhNoYouDidn't


    prinz wrote: »
    Could you provide any evidence whatsoever of your earlier claim of gardaí 'dragging people round the back of Anglo to beat them'?

    Only anecdotal, but RTE did report an incident at the back of the bank where protestors were injured. But no Gardai.


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    #293
    prinz
    Registered Users Posts: 14,598 ✭✭✭✭prinz


    OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »
    Only anecdotal, but RTE did report an incident at the back of the bank where protestors were injured. But no Gardai.

    Where is this RTE report?


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    #294
    OhNoYouDidn't
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,934 ✭✭✭OhNoYouDidn't


    Morphéus wrote: »
    you say they generally dont need an excuse? Facts please?

    They had a bloody good excuse last tuesday when the bunch of numpties tried to "storm" the gates. they just looked like a hateful spiteful bunch of naysayers and anarchists.

    Sure. Whatever you need to tell the ombudsman.

    Coupled with the media reports that the Gardai have been ordered to beef up their public order capabilities, we are in for a long summer. Good to see the aplogists are getting their practice in as well.


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    #295
    OhNoYouDidn't
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,934 ✭✭✭OhNoYouDidn't


    prinz wrote: »
    Where is this RTE report?

    On their website.


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    #296
    gandalf
    Registered Users Posts: 26,458 ✭✭✭✭gandalf


    OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »
    Speculator A on Wall St. "I was going to run the ISEQ/euro/Irish debt but I wont because there are no protests".

    Speculator B in London. "I was't going to run the ISEQ/euro/Irish debt but I will now because there are protests".

    Get real - the markets will target us because they see money, not whether there are some union marches on the Dail.


    No I am talking about media outlets. Next time read what people write. When the story gets enough legs then the speculators jump in.
    And thats aside from the point that FF are answerable to US, not some vague financial construct they don't understand.

    Yeah and that's called having an election and not marching and attempting to illegally gain access to Government buildings.

    Again I'll ask you because zenno has gone all shy. What would you do to get us out of the mess we are in?


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    #297
    DeVore
    Business & Finance Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 32,387 Mod ✭✭✭✭DeVore


    im not nor ever have been a FF supporter. in fact, come the election i suggest NO ONE vote for them.



    None of you have answered mine or Scofflaws question. Nice bait and switch though.


    DeV.


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    #298
    Denerick
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,488 ✭✭✭Denerick


    zenno wrote: »
    I think i have hit a sore point there. why don't you go and read a book maybe one about standing up for yourself and acting like a proper irish citizen ?. if what i say annoys you you should be somewere else. it is quite obvious you were brought up as a person to do what you are told no matter what circumstances that may be. i pitty you.

    Lol!

    You are such a deluded child. And it still hasn't gotten through, has it? You are your 50 or so buddies who decided 'to storm' the Dáil are the laughing stock of the nation. We had a good laugh about it last night in the pub.


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    #299
    Denerick
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,488 ✭✭✭Denerick


    OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »
    Sure. Whatever you need to tell the ombudsman.

    Coupled with the media reports that the Gardai have been ordered to beef up their public order capabilities, we are in for a long summer. Good to see the aplogists are getting their practice in as well.

    Just grow up and spend your free time in the pub or something, please. Stop being so 'active' and spend more time in thought and contemplation. The world would be such a better place if less people were politicised.


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    #300
    Morpheus
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 2,688 Mod ✭✭✭✭Morpheus


    Same old rhetoric.

    you still havent provided facts for when the gardaí did something OTT without an excuse?

    you still havent provided us with the report from RTE that YOU say indicated something happened behind Anglo that involved protestors but not gardaí.

    look, the law is the law. its there for good AND bad times. I hope that ALL (who protest violently and attack gardaí) are arrested and treated as common criminal scum.

    peaceful protest is not against the law, breaking the law to make your point is putting the lives of innocent people in danger and if you break the law, i hope you are willing to accept the consequences.

    I cannot personally agree with your misinformed opinions on the gardai, I do however agree that this government has made mistakes that have financially and psychologically hurt a lot of people but the ONLY solution is a ballot box solution.

    Im not a garda, but at the end of the day, the gardaí are people too and you also endanger their lives, they have families, partners, kids that they have a right to go home to every evening.

    Remember that, if you can dredge up enough human empathy to find that you still have a conscience, for Gods sake respect the majority of protestors opinions and protest peacefully.


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    #301
    gandalf
    Registered Users Posts: 26,458 ✭✭✭✭gandalf


    OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »
    On their website.

    Can't find it. Provide a link.


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