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Irish Rail, gangsters

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    #122
    Pineapple stu
    Registered Users Posts: 1,677 ✭✭✭Pineapple stu


    There was a ticket machine in the booking office on the down platform.


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    #123
    Pineapple stu
    Registered Users Posts: 1,677 ✭✭✭Pineapple stu


    You dont need an irish rail employee to help you put your money in the slots of the ticket machine, if you do then you propably shouldnt be traveling on your own.


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    #124
    Stark
    Registered Users Posts: 20,895 ✭✭✭✭Stark


    kbannon wrote:
    How? He already explained his situation.

    With the power of self righteousness! Your zero downtime one stop ticket shop.


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    #125
    daymobrew
    Registered Users Posts: 6,491 ✭✭✭daymobrew


    kbannon wrote:
    How? He already explained his situation.
    If there is nobody at the station of departure how do you manage to pay before getting on?
    Closing station ticket offices for whatever reason is quite common - whether IR want to put their head in the sand or not doesn't change that fact.
    I don't see where andyl222 says whether the main ticket office at Coolmine was open. He comments about the 'new' one on the southbound platform (the metal container that is only open until 9:30am). Unless he mentions otherwise, we cannot assume that it was closed.

    Of course it is strange that a train would arrive so early.


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    #126
    andyl222
    Closed Accounts Posts: 182 ✭✭andyl222


    cymro wrote:
    You dont need an irish rail employee to help you put your money in the slots of the ticket machine, if you do then you propably shouldnt be traveling on your own.

    funny you should say that, by law noone has to use those machines if they don't want, so regardless of whether someone needs help using one of them, they can by law get on the train and pay cash at the destination if there wasnt a ticket agent at the station.... however I feel I must reiterate a point, the train was early which in turn meant I couldn't get across the level crossing. Due to the early arrival of the train I was left in the situation whereby either I board the train and pay at my destination, or risk missing an extremely important meeting by trying to get up over the walk over bridge (100 m from the entrance of the platform)across to the station and back again in the 1 minute the train would be stationary at the platform..... I chose the former and as a result was fined.....


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    #127
    andyl222
    Closed Accounts Posts: 182 ✭✭andyl222


    cymro wrote:
    You still should have paid. How do the ticket staff know that you got on were you told them.? You say you would have paid but hundreds don't and you being caught by irish rail clamping down on this does not make them gangsters.

    Well if by clamping down you mean that they one week allow you to pay for your journey at the destination one week and then the next they fine you 50 euro for the exact same situation, then yes they are clamping down. Personally I just see it as a somewhat tdishonest way of irish rail making a fortune through misguiding their customers. Belive me, I'm not the only person that still thinks you can pay for your ticket at your destination.....


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    #128
    MarkoP11
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,331 ✭✭✭MarkoP11


    The relevant legal instrument SI 109 1984, makes no reference to automated ticket machines. Irish Rail cannot claim they didn't forsee this as when the rules where redrawn in 1984 CIE as it was had ticket vending machines in at least 2 stations in Dublin (Pearse and Sutton) at the time.
    4. Where the Board gives notice that a station is unattended or the booking office is closed, or where any person is instructed by an authorised person to board a train at a station without purchasing a ticket at the booking office so as not to delay the departure of the train from the station, any person not in possession of a valid ticket entitling him or her to travel may enter a vehicle at that station for the purpose of travelling but that person must obtain a ticket or other authority from an authorised person on the train as soon as practicable after entering any vehicle or from an authorised person on arrival at the station to which such person is travelling by the train.

    Given the ticket vending machines inabilty to sell the full range of tickets they can't enforce a requirement to force you to use them. Put simply if the ticket vending machine can sell the ticket you want use it, if it can't pay onboard or at the destination. This applies to child/student fares and tickets to destinations not listed on the TVM's. Irish Rail claim you must use the machines but that is not matched by a statement in the approved rules which the minister signs not something Irish Rail can do themselves.

    Of course this is not to say that when faced with a judge that he or she will rule that the ticket vending machine was there, was serviceable and was able to sell you the ticket you wanted and was thus equivalent to a staffed booking office and convict you. So the advice is to be sensible, exercise some common sense and not to blindly follow the rules to the letter


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    #129
    andyl222
    Closed Accounts Posts: 182 ✭✭andyl222


    MarkoP11 wrote:
    The relevant legal instrument SI 109 1984, makes no reference to automated ticket machines. Irish Rail cannot claim they didn't forsee this as when the rules where redrawn in 1984 CIE as it was had ticket vending machines in at least 2 stations in Dublin (Pearse and Sutton) at the time.



    Given the ticket vending machines inabilty to sell the full range of tickets they can't enforce a requirement to force you to use them. Put simply if the ticket vending machine can sell the ticket you want use it, if it can't pay onboard or at the destination. This applies to child/student fares and tickets to destinations not listed on the TVM's. Irish Rail claim you must use the machines but that is not matched by a statement in the approved rules which the minister signs not something Irish Rail can do themselves.

    Of course this is not to say that when faced with a judge that he or she will rule that the ticket vending machine was there, was serviceable and was able to sell you the ticket you wanted and was thus equivalent to a staffed booking office and convict you. So the advice is to be sensible, exercise some common sense and not to blindly follow the rules to the letter

    I agree mark, common sense should be used. But if a customer is asked to use common sense then surely Irish rail should extend us the same courtesy no?


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    #130
    daymobrew
    Registered Users Posts: 6,491 ✭✭✭daymobrew


    andyl222 wrote:
    I chose the former and as a result was fined.....
    Are you going to pay the fine?
    For at least a month now, Coolmine station has had a bunch of signs reminding people that they must have tickets before boarding a train. These were added a while after I posted a sign at Coolmine and told the station master about the original incident. I have plans for a more readable timetable to be posted on each platform (readable = broken up by day and by direction, not all-in-one like the timetable outside the permanent ticket office entrance).


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    #131
    Pineapple stu
    Registered Users Posts: 1,677 ✭✭✭Pineapple stu


    andyl222 wrote:
    funny you should say that, by law noone has to use those machines if they don't want, so regardless of whether someone needs help using one of them, they can by law get on the train and pay cash at the destination if there wasnt a ticket agent at the station.... however I feel I must reiterate a point, the train was early which in turn meant I couldn't get across the level crossing. Due to the early arrival of the train I was left in the situation whereby either I board the train and pay at my destination, or risk missing an extremely important meeting by trying to get up over the walk over bridge (100 m from the entrance of the platform)across to the station and back again in the 1 minute the train would be stationary at the platform..... I chose the former and as a result was fined.....

    you should have got there sooner and bought a ticket. Was the train 10-15 mins early? doubt it. You are just blaming irish rail for something that was your fault. Usely people complain that the trains are late not early. PAY UP.:rolleyes:


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    #132
    markpb
    Registered Users Posts: 9,250 ✭✭✭markpb


    cymro wrote:
    you should have got there sooner and bought a ticket. Was the train 10-15 mins early? doubt it. You are just blaming irish rail for something that was your fault. Usely people complain that the trains are late not early. PAY UP.:rolleyes:

    Whatever the rights and wrongs of the situation, the guy was 12 minutes early for the train which is loads of time. FFS, he wasn't going for an intercity train, it's a suburban service. Do you show up more than 12 minutes early for city train or bus?


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    #133
    Pineapple stu
    Registered Users Posts: 1,677 ✭✭✭Pineapple stu


    yes, so i get plenty of time to buy a ticket before i get on the train.:rolleyes:


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    #134
    Metrobest
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,042 ✭✭✭Metrobest


    daymobrew wrote:
    Are you going to pay the fine?
    For at least a month now, Coolmine station has had a bunch of signs reminding people that they must have tickets before boarding a train. These were added a while after I posted a sign at Coolmine and told the station master about the original incident. I have plans for a more readable timetable to be posted on each platform (readable = broken up by day and by direction, not all-in-one like the timetable outside the permanent ticket office entrance).

    Andy, it seems to me, has been the victim of Irish Rail's make-it-up-as-we-go-along attitude to fare evasion.

    I presume Andy was dressed in "student" attire, and not a business suit? As such, he was an easy target, and the inspector was able to fit him into the comfortable stereotype of cheapskate student chancing his arm.

    The most shocking thing of all, however, is that Damobrew, who doesn't even work for Irish Rail, has to take care of such basic matters as putting proper signs and timetables on a busy suburban railway station.

    I ask you, can you name any other modern EU capital city where passengers have to do the work for the train company? Next thing they'll have Damo driving the trains during his lunch hour! :D

    Shame on you, Irish Rail.


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    #135
    daymobrew
    Registered Users Posts: 6,491 ✭✭✭daymobrew


    Metrobest wrote:
    Next thing they'll have Damo driving the trains during his lunch hour! :D
    MarkoP11 would report that to the Railway Safety Commission :p

    Being an active citizen is just something I do. I am a proud citizen that is simultaneously embarrassed by many things in this country, but I do what I can to help improve where I can.


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    #136
    dodgyme
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,581 ✭✭✭dodgyme


    daymobrew wrote:
    I am a proud citizen that is simultaneously embarrassed by many things in this country, but I do what I can to help improve where I can.

    I wish there were more like you.


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    #137
    MarkoP11
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,331 ✭✭✭MarkoP11


    In both cases highlighted in this thread, both passengers boarded trains at staffed stations with no ticket, basic common sense says if you are at a staffed station you buy a ticket before you travel.

    In the second case I have some sympathy on the grounds that the train was early, unlikely it could have been a earlier train delayed, either way IE would be able to verify that internally

    The Luas ticket checkers don't take any rubbish they fine you, Irish Rail are doing the same. Fare evasion is a serious problem, the revenue loss is being passed on to fare paying passengers

    Not having a ticket is in breech of SI 109 1984, SI 567 2006 and under the Victorian railway regulation act. Both cases where fully legitimate collars by Irish Rail staff depending on the fullness of circumstances the fine may be withdrawn or not you always have the right to appeal. I've come across one incident where IE where wrong, they kept claiming they where right, they where offered the chance to actually fine me when I recreated the journey but I was legal just like the guy who got the abuse

    daymobrew has done a great job, he is not the only one there are quite a few people and groups trying to make a difference but come up against a system that refuses to acknowledge its failures


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    #138
    daymobrew
    Registered Users Posts: 6,491 ✭✭✭daymobrew


    dodgyme wrote:
    I wish there were more like you.
    So do I. I hope to see you getting involved. You might inspire others to follow. You might make a positive difference. Don't underestimate what you can achieve.
    MarkoP11 wrote:
    There are quite a few people and groups trying to make a difference but come up against a system that refuses to acknowledge its failures
    I fully acknowledge that I am a real small fry in one small part of the country. I'm happy to leave the more frustrating jobs to Platform 11 :p


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    #139
    Rhonda9000
    Closed Accounts Posts: 451 ✭✭Rhonda9000


    Big Nelly wrote: »
    Its 1.95 for a ticket, I can tell you I have no problem handing out 1.95, as my cousin said before to a boucner when he was giving him hastle "I earn more in an hour than you would earn in a week":p

    I bet he feels real high and mighty. Its up there with "do you know who I am" or [to bouncers] "you cawnt do that Im a law student". Painful


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