Irish Rail, gangsters

Big Nelly · 30-11-2006 9:01am #1

Ok I drive into work everyday because I work in Field Sales and need my car, anyway last wednesday was going out for pints after work so left my car at home and went to get the Coolmine - Pearse Train. So got to platform and as usual on the Blanch side the ticket office was closed. I was getting the 10 train. So I waited around 10 mins, hopped onto train and headed into town.

Now for you people that don't know Coolmine this is what always happens and you pay at Pearse etc when you get off. I done this just 2 weeks before with no problem

So about 5 mins into journey ticket officer comes up so I take out 2 euro to hand to him. Sorry I cant take money. So I explained what had happened, he just stood there with a pig ignorant head on him saying I was a "fare dogger". Now lads I was sitting in a full suit with a laptop beside me I think I could pay the 1.95.

So I asked him, never raised my voice, where I was supposed to buy the ticket if the little office was closed. Answer: Don't know. So I offered to pay him then, Oh I cant take money off you. SO I again repeated where was I supposed to buy the ticket. Then he gets all snotty, well everyone else has a ticket. Guy beside me says, well yes we have weekly tickets which I bought in the little office but that was closed.

So I asked him what happens now, gave me a ticket and told me to ring this guy, John Byrne, Revneure Protection Unit for Irish Rail. So when I got off train and was in office, done a bit of checking with my mates around blanch and they all said the same. You get the ticket in Pearse. So I rang the number, left 3 messages and got no reply. So the next day I emailed the email address: info@irishrail.ie explaining my situation, that I had left messages and that I wanted to contact John. Explained about buying the ticket in pearse just 2 weeks before

Reply:

Good afternoon Neil

Thank you for your mail regarding the circumstances you have outlined while travelling from Coolmine station. Firstly I will address the points you have raised

There is no change in Iarnrod Eireann ticketing policy all passengers must have a ticket prior to boarding any service when a facility is available. This has been the policy of the railway since the 1889 railway act.
To re-enforce this policy numerous amounts of signage is dotted around the network and the rolling stock. The newest poster No Ticket, No Travel, No Excuse is located on all rolling stock transiting that station and at main stations such as Connolly.

This is also accompanied by an information booklet of the same name available at stations (see attachment). In regard to Coolmine the platform on the way to Dublin has a container which houses a temporary booking office that operates at peak times in the morning. Directly across from that is the booking office that contains an automatic vending machine and ticket sales from two windows access to the ticket office is over the passenger footbridge.

The station is manned until 2130 every evening. With regard to staff informing you that you could pay at the other end this practice is only permitted if one the TVM is out of operation or two there is a power cut and we cant sell you a ticket . Passengers using the service are asked to allow themselves plenty of time to buy a ticket rather then risk committing the offence of evasion albeit un-deliberately.

In your case the standard fine is €80-100 for individuals caught attempting or accidentally evading on our services , However as I will have to charge you something the minimum I can charge is €25 giving you 21 days to pay . Please fine attached the leaflet mentioned.

So I replied

Hi John

Thanks for the reply. In regards to the fine of €25, as mentioned I normally don't get the train into work. I drive in and only got the train that morning because I was going for drinks after work with a customer and did not want to bring car along. If the policy is there since 1889 why was I told a few weeks beforehand to get the ticket at Pearse and when I got off train there was someone standing there and I paided them and they never mentioned anything about a fine for no ticket? there was about 10-15 people that day and they all paided the person at Pearse. It was Tuesday the 24th of October. Just checked my calender.

I explained it to the person who gave me the ticket and had no problem giving him the 1.90 or 1.95 but he would not accept. When I asked about ticket office and where I could buy tickets he couldn't tell me where it was. I passed the station earlier from work and there is a office on other side of station, is this where you buy tickets? just for future reference. The little blue office was closed again when I passed.

I have talked to 2-3 people who are friends and they all said they done the same and bought tickets at destination from coolmine. I am just confused if there is a law since 1889 then why have they been using the train and doing the same as myself without a mention of a fine?

I got this bollock back yesterday:

I've spoken to the inspector for that day and he tells me that you informed him you didn't get a ticket because you ran for the train. Also other passengers on that service had tickets purchased at the station. I would advise that the fine be paid and this will close the issue. I've already reduced the fine to €25 and that's all the action I will be taking on the matter. In regard to what you were told I can't comment on as you don't identify the member of staff but let me assure you that all staff are aware of the consequences of allowing passengers onto a service without a ticket when a facillity is available.

What can I do?? Inspector is telling a load of lies, was standing on the platform for 5-10 mins waiting on the train. I am wondering if I bother going to a solicotor will I have a case? lads say to sue for slander for being called a "fare dodger"

Occidental · 30-11-2006 9:21am

I'd suggest getting on to Platform11. I'd imagine they'll have a field day with this. I can't imagine the fare dodger accusation standing up in court, as IE operate a number of stations where it's impossible to purchase a ticket at certain times of the day. If it went to court I'm sure there's at least a few hundred of us who could turn up as witnesses to IE's policy of selling tickets on the train, or at the end of the journey. It happens to me on at least a weekly basis.

Big Nelly · 30-11-2006 9:28am

Occidental wrote:

I'd suggest getting on to Platform11. I'd imagine they'll have a field day with this. I can't imagine the fare dodger accusation standing up in court, as IE operate a number of stations where it's impossible to purchase a ticket at certain times of the day. If it went to court I'm sure there's at least a few hundred of us who could turn up as witnesses to IE's policy of selling tickets on the train, or at the end of the journey. It happens to me on at least a weekly basis.

Platform11??

mal1 · 30-11-2006 9:31am

I get on at the Coomine station and the exact same thing happened my flat mate. He just refused to pay the fine. Even got a registered letter from IE requesting repayment within two weeks or face a court appearance. He still ignored and nothing happened. That was two years ago. He argued in the same manner.

I can never understand why they collect money in Pearce if there is a law stating that you need a ticket to be on a train. They get the best of both worlds - take the payment at the end of the journey as well as fining a number of passengers during the week whenever it takes their fancy.

dats_right · 30-11-2006 10:06am

I wouldn't pay it. Hold your ground, point out how ridiculous the whole situation is. Inform Irish Rail that you intend ringing Joe Duffy, your local TD, the Minister for Transport, the Evening Herald, etc. as you are so vexed by IE's stupidity and if necessary that you are more than willing to fight the matter in the District Court and that you will take great delight in having them laughed out of court.

Victor · 30-11-2006 10:07am

Next time you are there, bring a camera.

Is there one or two ticket offices? Are there ticket vending machines?

Big Nelly wrote:

Platform11??

www.platform11.org

Occidental · 30-11-2006 10:09am

http://www.platform11.org

Post on the Message Board. Otherwise I'm sure one of the P11 gang will be along within the next few hours.

Big Nelly · 30-11-2006 10:12am

Victor wrote:

Next time you are there, bring a camera.

Is there one or two ticket offices? Are there ticket vending machines?

On the far side there is a building, I never knew it was a ticket office till now. There is a ticket office on one side but only open till 9.30 and there was no sign to go to far side to get tickets. I never even thought about it because everyone always just buys there ticket in Pearse and they never complained.

No ticket vending machines on one side and to get to the other you either have to take a 10 min long walk around or try and cross a bridge which is about the width of 2 small cars and there is lorries and everything crossing it, so very dangerous.

I wouldnt have minded if it was clearly marked where to buy ticket but just 2 weeks before they had let me buy the ticket at Pearse. This guy John will not explain why this happened!

loyatemu · 30-11-2006 10:24am

could they not have vending machines on both sides - I would have assumed the Dublin-bound side is by far the busiest in terms of people boarding - its crazy to have the machines on the Maynooth-bound side.

Don't pay - IE are clowns, this would not stand up in court.
Warning! - I am not a lawyer

enterprise · 30-11-2006 10:35am

I'm sorry to hear of the trouble you have had but at the end of the day if there was a facility to purchase a ticket from a ticket machine and you didn't buy one you are fare evading. Plain and simple really.

mal1 · 30-11-2006 10:43am

loyatemu wrote:

could they not have vending machines on both sides - I would have assumed the Dublin-bound side is by far the busiest in terms of people boarding - its crazy to have the machines on the Maynooth-bound side.

Don't pay - IE are clowns, this would not stand up in court.
Warning! - I am not a lawyer

There is no building on the Dublin bound side. just a small container which they use as a ticket office in the morning. There is no room for a building on the Dublin bound side because it is right beside the canal and hence no room for a vending machine.

Big Nelly · 30-11-2006 11:00am

enterprise wrote:

I'm sorry to hear of the trouble you have had but at the end of the day if there was a facility to purchase a ticket from a ticket machine and you didn't buy one you are fare evading. Plain and simple really.

Its 1.95 for a ticket, I can tell you I have no problem handing out 1.95, as my cousin said before to a boucner when he was giving him hastle "I earn more in an hour than you would earn in a week":p but I stayed calm and was been polite the whole time while the ticket inspector was a pure ignorant f**k. Then trying to lie saying I said I got no ticket cause I was running for train???

Again your missing the point. If there was any sign to say where to get the ticket I would have, also if they had made a change in the last two weeks in the way they deal with this why wasn't there any signs? as I said on the 24th I took train in and got ticket in Pearse. Ask anyone in Blanch and they will say you can do the same. Its not like Im some little sc*mbag trying to get away for free.

markf909 · 30-11-2006 11:52am

The ticket office in the portacabin is only open early in the morning but the regular ticket office is open until 9PM ish.
It is manned and has a ticket vending machine. You must walk across the tracks, buy a ticket there and cross via the footbridge.

enterprise · 30-11-2006 12:03pm

markf909 wrote:

You must walk across the tracks, buy a ticket there and cross via the footbridge.

No don't do that!

You must walk across the LEVEL CROSSING buy a ticket there and cross via the footbridge.

bryanw · 30-11-2006 5:44pm

You know I was tinking about starting a topic on this myself...

I experience this quite often - but in my case what I have witnessed is that there is no access to tickets whatsoever. Take for example Dalkey or Glenageary stations. At certains times, mostly late in the evenings, they will close the station completely and open the side gate. Thus meaning no access even to the machines. They may also close the station randomly - even at peak times in Gleanageary (which is a pretty busy station in the morning).

I always wonder what would happen if I was going into town or getting off at one of the stations using the validate on exit barriers. Luckily I've never gotten into trouble over this.

There was also one time I remember in Shankill station when both ticket machines were "out of order" and the ticket salesman was behind the window with the blinds down, having lunch, with no intentions of selling tickets.

I don't know how they can get away with this and then expect to acuse people of fare evasion and then fine them... its ridiculous!

MarkoP11 · 30-11-2006 5:55pm

If the station is locked up or clear notice given that the booking office is closed the rules allow you to pay at the other end. The rules say booking office thus even if there are ticket vending machines with the office closed it appears you are still permitted to travel with no ticket that said god help a smart arse who uses that excuse on a judge the book will most likely be thrown at them

The the OP's case the main booking office in Coolmine was open (or not claimed to be closed) thus IE have a legitimate case question is will it stand up in the light of mitagating factors

Victor · 30-11-2006 7:39pm

Big Nelly wrote:

as my cousin said before to a boucner when he was giving him hastle "I earn more in an hour than you would earn in a week":p

You do realise that something like this gets you no sympathy?

shltter · 30-11-2006 7:54pm

Victor wrote:

You do realise that something like this gets you no sympathy?

I was thinking exactly the same thing myself

And for the OP it is not just "little Scumbags" that try to evade fares it is all types of people including those wearing suits with laptops.
I am sure Wynona Ryder could easily have afforded the clothes she was caught shoplifting it does not mean she was not stealing the fact that you were well able to afford the fare does not prove that you were not trying to evade it in the first place.
IEs rule book doesn't just apply to people wearing tracksuits.

kuzmanovic · 30-11-2006 8:00pm

there are a law on to themselves. like its 29 quid return from dundalk to dublin,and you get a service thats totally substandard. like everything in this country, you pay over the odds for crap.

Big Nelly · 30-11-2006 8:04pm

Victor wrote:

You do realise that something like this gets you no sympathy?

It was a joke, how not to talk person like!!! nothing serious!!

davyjose · 30-11-2006 8:09pm

I wouldn't pay the fine and I would contact your local TD and explain the situation to him. I've often had to take the train from Leixlip and paid on the way out - it is a ridiculous system. If trains are running then at the very least automated ticket vendors should be in place.

daymobrew · 30-11-2006 9:44pm

Big Nelly wrote:

The station is manned until 2130 every evening.

The listed hours for Coolmine station are 6am-8pm. I've seen it close earlier than this.

Big Nelly wrote:

only got the train that morning because I was going for drinks after work with a customer and did not want to bring car along.

Did you get the train at 10am or 10pm? If 10am, the ticket office should have been open.

Big Nelly wrote:

I paided them

Big Nelly wrote:

No ticket vending machines on one side and to get to the other you either have to take a 10 min long walk around or try and cross a bridge which is about the width of 2 small cars and there is lorries and everything crossing it, so very dangerous.

10 min long walk? What route are you taking? Please don't (under) exaggerate the width of the bridge. Inaccuracies undermine your case. Nothing is very dangerous if you take care. Hundreds of people successfully use it every day.

Here is a satellite shot of Coolmine station.
The Maynooth is to the left, using the lower track, with Pearse off to the right, using the top track. The white building is the ticket office. It is adjacent to the Maynooth bound side. There is a pedestrian bridge to cross the tracks. It is a little to the right of the ticket office.
You can see the level crossing a little to the left of the ticket office.
Blanchardstown/Coolmine is across the level crossing (the top side of the image), with Castleknock/Carpenterstown on the bottom side (car park side).

You could have used the pedestrian bridge to cross the tracks to the ticket office (if you were travelling at 10am).

Big Nelly · 30-11-2006 9:53pm

daymobrew wrote:

Did you get the train at 10am or 10pm? If 10am, the ticket office should have been open.

10 am and the little office closes at 9.30.

daymobrew wrote:

10 min long walk? What route are you taking? Please don't (under) exaggerate the width of the bridge. Inaccuracies undermine your case. Nothing is very dangerous if you take care. Hundreds of people successfully use it every day

Here is a satellite shot of Coolmine station.
The Maynooth is to the left, using the lower track, with Pearse off to the right, using the top track. The white building is the ticket office. It is adjacent to the Maynooth bound side. There is a pedestrian bridge to cross the tracks. It is a little to the right of the ticket office.
You can see the level crossing a little to the left of the ticket office.
Blanchardstown/Coolmine is across the level crossing (the top side of the image), with Castleknock/Carpenterstown on the bottom side (car park side).

You could have used the pedestrian bridge to cross the tracks to the ticket office (if you were travelling at 10am).

Ok but again my point is before you could always get the ticket at Pearse, this is what I had done a few weeks beforehand and nothing was said, loads of people do this as well and nothing is ever said but they suddenly change plans and they start to try and cash in!! its not right!!

markf909 · 30-11-2006 10:03pm

try and cross a bridge which is about the width of 2 small cars and there is lorries and everything crossing it, so very dangerous.

You have to cross that bridge irrespective of which platform you are going to if you are coming from the blanch side!

All you had to do was go over the other side of the platform via the footbridge to get a ticket from the open ticket office at 10am.

I really have no sympathy for you on this one, if the main ticket office is closed then by all means jump on the train (as I have done many times at night etc) but the larger building has been the main ticket area for the past 4+ years.

John R · 30-11-2006 11:27pm

markf909 wrote:

You have to cross that bridge irrespective of which platform you are going to if you are coming from the blanch side!

All you had to do was go over the other side of the platform via the footbridge to get a ticket from the open ticket office at 10am.

I really have no sympathy for you on this one, if the main ticket office is closed then by all means jump on the train (as I have done many times at night etc) but the larger building has been the main ticket area for the past 4+ years.

I have no sympathy either. I hope IE take it all the way. If the ticket office was closed at 10am then it would be a different story.

The OP clearly boarded without a ticket when the facility was there to buy one.

It is not normal practice to board without buying a ticket, certainly not in the daytime.

It is perfectly obvious that the building sitting on the westbound platform is the ticket office, not going there is simply lazy.

There are plenty of stations with ticket offices on the "wrong" platform, mainly to do with their siting or surrounding geography. It is no excuse for fare-evading.

daymobrew · 01-12-2006 12:19am

Big Nelly wrote:

10 am and the little office closes at 9.30.

Big Nelly wrote:

So I waited around 10 mins, hopped onto train and headed into town.

You had plenty of time to walk over to the other side. Surely, during your 10 minute wait you would have seen people come through the ticket office on the opposite side and use the pedestrian bridge.

Originally I thought you meant 10pm (based on the 10 minute wait and ticket office [which turned out to be the temp one] being closed), but, not now that the facts are out.

DerekP11 · 01-12-2006 12:46am

Our rail network should not be designed solely for the regular user or those who are used to it. It should be accessible and easy to understand for any user. It isn't, regardless of some of the contributions made here. Big Nelly could've been a tourist.

Traditionally, our rail network is based on an ethos of, "what you should know" and not, "what you need to know". Hence the extremely poor signage, information points etc.

Road signage in Ireland is another example. Its a civil service thing.

This particular story is not cut and dried by any means.

Our man in Havana · 01-12-2006 1:42am

I don't see what the problem is. I catch a Cork bound train from Thurles regularly. I park the car in the carpark on the Platform 2 side of the station and walk onto the platform. To buy a ticket I need to cross the footbridge and go to the booking office, takes 3 mins max. I can see where IE are coming from.

aliveandkicking · 01-12-2006 1:52am

Bond-007 wrote:

I don't see what the problem is. I catch a Cork bound train from Thurles regularly. I park the car in the carpark on the Platform 2 side of the station and walk onto the platform. To buy a ticket I need to cross the footbridge and go to the booking office, takes 3 mins max. I can see where IE are coming from.

Agree but I think the bigger issue here is that standard practice over many years on the rail network (whether its in the rule book or not) has been that you can pay at the end of the journey. One IE staff member will tell you to pay when you get off, another will fine you for fare evasion.

John R · 01-12-2006 2:51am

aliveandkicking wrote:

Agree but I think the bigger issue here is that standard practice over many years on the rail network (whether its in the rule book or not) has been that you can pay at the end of the journey. One IE staff member will tell you to pay when you get off, another will fine you for fare evasion.

That has only been the case when the ticket office is closed. The standard practice on this and every other railway I have encountered is that you pay before you travel.

Big Nelly · 01-12-2006 9:03am

As usual you get the usual poster who has a rant, ahh its your fault etc etc. THe point is here the policy for the last few years when coming from Coolmine and the little office is closed is that you buy your ticket at your destination. Never was a problem with this. There was no sign up saying this policy had change, I would have no problem if when I got the train the few weeks before and bought my ticket in Pearse they said, from now on you cant do that and you must buy ur ticket at coolmine, I would have asked where and got my ticket. But nothing was said and this w*nker in IE will not explain why this happened just he wants 25 euro off me. If they had said that I woudl have asked where I could buy the ticket, they could have told me and end of story

You seem to forget those who are having a go I didnt know you could buy the tickets on the far side. I have never got the train from Coolmine the other way and it is once or twice every 6 months I take the train so get the hell off your high horse and read the facts the half of you.

Also sure the bloody ticket inspector couldnt tell me where to buy the ticket??? so for all the great people that know where to get it how come one of IE's own employee hadnt a clue you had to buy on far side. All he could say was "ahh sure everyone else has one!". Then when challenged about it he says I didnt have ticket because I was running for the train. BULLSH*T

If IE cant bother there arse to put up proper signs to tell you where to purchase your ticket, from what I can remember on the coolmine side of the tracks there is no visible sign telling you that building is a ticket office. Also why let me and numerous other people use the train over the last 2-3 years and but tickets in Pearse with nothing been said? then change there policy and say ahh well sure I will charge you 70-80(I got them down to 25) cause you didnt know we change our policy.

As mentioned above what if I was a tourist, you wouldnt have a clue where to go. There is no signs, nothing to explain how to get a ticket. Why cant they put an electronic ticket machine on the coolmine side? no that would be using there brain.

If all you posters here defending IE want to keep the worst rail system in Europe and are happy with it then fair play. When I see a crap system who is just trying to screw over there customers every so often so they make a few quid then of course I am going to complain. I would hope everyone would, but of course you have the few saying "ahh sure I will pay and it will be alright!". Grow up!!!

Irish Rail, gangsters

Comments