DART+ (DART Expansion)

LXFlyer · 11-10-2019 7:44pm

CatInABox wrote: »

At least the bridge will connect both sides of the river.

And should eliminate some of the trespassing on the line too.

roadmaster · 12-10-2019 9:36am

LXFlyer wrote: »

Good luck to anyone trying to board a train at Pelletstown inbound during the morning peak until the new DART rolling stock arrives which at this rate could be 5 years away.

Ludicrous to even think of opening it until the line is electrified and rolling stock delivered. Or maybe only serve it off-peak until that happens.

I see Alanna homes have started there apartment blocks at hansfield so along with the apartments going up at the rear of st Joseph’s beside Clonsilla I say Coolmine will be even more fun to board!

ted1 · 15-10-2019 11:10am

cgcsb wrote: »

The loses aren't the main reason. For dc the substations have to be closer together a long the route, every 2 or 3km. With ac the substations can easily be 25km apart

Why’s that? Doesn’t sound right.

roadmaster · 20-10-2019 12:51pm

The removal of the level crossings on the maynooth line is that primarily for safety reasons?

LXFlyer · 20-10-2019 1:05pm

roadmaster wrote: »

The removal of the level crossings on the maynooth line is that primarily for safety reasons?

No.

It is primarily because with increased frequency of trains the barriers would spend more time down than up particularly at peak times, and consequently there would be traffic gridlock.

A secondary benefit is increased safety of the permanent way.

ohographite · 20-10-2019 6:48pm

LXFlyer wrote: »

No.

It is primarily because with increased frequency of trains the barriers would spend more time down than up particularly at peak times, and consequently there would be traffic gridlock.

A secondary benefit is increased safety of the permanent way.

What is the desired frequency of trains?

goingnowhere · 20-10-2019 7:00pm

8 trains per hour Clonsilla - City + Sligo/Longford, so looking at 19 per hour total

roadmaster · 21-10-2019 3:38pm

LXFlyer wrote: »

No.

It is primarily because with increased frequency of trains the barriers would spend more time down than up particularly at peak times, and consequently there would be traffic gridlock.

A secondary benefit is increased safety of the permanent way.

I think they have already hit gridlock in the evenings. I have made the fatal mistake the odd time of going via clonsilla from Lucan around 5pm and getting stuck there

marno21 · 08-11-2019 2:02pm

Irish Rail have tendered for consultants for the preparation of a Business Case for the DART Expansion programme

https://irl.eu-supply.com/ctm/Supplier/PublicPurchase/154022/1/0

murphaph · 09-11-2019 8:49am

marno21 wrote: »

Irish Rail have tendered for consultants for the preparation of a Business Case for the DART Expansion programme

https://irl.eu-supply.com/ctm/Supplier/PublicPurchase/154022/1/0

Groundhog Day starts again.

cgcsb · 09-11-2019 11:10am

Is all this report writing really necessary? I mean the current transport network is bursting at the seams. Is anybody out there in doubt of the need for an expanded DART network? Who needs convincing? It Seems like just a way to eat up some budget

Grandeeod · 09-11-2019 11:19am

cgcsb wrote: »

Is all this report writing really necessary? I mean the current transport network is bursting at the seams. Is anybody out there in doubt of the need for an expanded DART network? Who needs convincing? It Seems like just a way to eat up some budget

And look like something is being done.

spacetweek · 09-11-2019 6:12pm

marno21 wrote: »

Irish Rail have tendered for consultants for the preparation of a Business Case for the DART Expansion programme

https://irl.eu-supply.com/ctm/Supplier/PublicPurchase/154022/1/0

What?? What is this nonsense?

Trains are crush-loaded at rush hour. How on earth do you need a business case to justify expansion?

Tomrota · 09-11-2019 6:30pm

marno21 wrote: »

Irish Rail have tendered for consultants for the preparation of a Business Case for the DART Expansion programme

https://irl.eu-supply.com/ctm/Supplier/PublicPurchase/154022/1/0

Maybe by the time they finish writing the report, they’ll need DART all the way in Kildare town and beyond.

Pete_Cavan · 09-11-2019 9:04pm

cgcsb wrote: »

Is all this report writing really necessary? I mean the current transport network is bursting at the seams. Is anybody out there in doubt of the need for an expanded DART network? Who needs convincing?

Shane Ross.

cgcsb · 09-11-2019 9:33pm

Did we not have a business case 40 years ago?

lawred2 · 09-11-2019 9:35pm

marno21 wrote: »

Irish Rail have tendered for consultants for the preparation of a Business Case for the DART Expansion programme

https://irl.eu-supply.com/ctm/Supplier/PublicPurchase/154022/1/0

Another round of consultants to regurgitate an old report

Grandeeod · 09-11-2019 9:39pm

cgcsb wrote: »

Did we not have a business case 40 years ago?

It was even more than that! Listen, its all bollox. Reinvent the wheel. Rehash it all. Order more reports blah blah blah. A new generation comes along and starts the same old debates all over again. A few years from now some poor kids with an interest will suggest a DART Tunnel.:eek:

Ireland trains · 17-11-2019 11:22am

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.independent.ie/business/irish/keeping-irish-rail-on-the-right-track-38698743.html
They mention examining the posibility of 4 tracks to mallahide

donvito99 · 17-11-2019 1:03pm

Ireland trains wrote: »

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.independent.ie/business/irish/keeping-irish-rail-on-the-right-track-38698743.html
They mention examining the posibility of 4 tracks to mallahide

Can someone with an account copy here?

lawred2 · 17-11-2019 1:25pm

Ireland trains wrote: »

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.independent.ie/business/irish/keeping-irish-rail-on-the-right-track-38698743.html
They mention examining the posibility of 4 tracks to mallahide

That will require so many CPOs. Simply can't see it happening. The amount of objections would be mind-blowing.

A Dublin underground is where the money and effort needs to be spent

Last Stop · 17-11-2019 1:50pm

Busconnects CPO have been rumoured at a rate of upto 35k per sq m.

Even if you assume a 10m wide strip is required along the full length (won’t be that wide and a lot will be within Irish Rail lands)
That’s
Around 200m for the 5.5km to Howth junction
Around 450m for the 12.5km to Malahide
Even doubling that for actual project costs it’s still the lower side of 1bn

DART underground is going to cost well north of 1bn if not 2bn.

If there’s anything worse that NIBMYism it’s people trying to suggest that we should not go ahead with a project for fear of NIMBYism.

lawred2 · 17-11-2019 2:03pm

Last Stop wrote: »

Busconnects CPO have been rumoured at a rate of upto 35k per sq m.

Even if you assume a 10m wide strip is required along the full length (won’t be that wide and a lot will be within Irish Rail lands)
That’s
Around 200m for the 5.5km to Howth junction
Around 450m for the 12.5km to Malahide
Even doubling that for actual project costs it’s still the lower side of 1bn

DART underground is going to cost well north of 1bn if not 2bn.

If there’s anything worse that NIBMYism it’s people trying to suggest that we should not go ahead with a project for fear of NIMBYism.

Underground will be more expensive for sure but at least it's the start of a subterranean network. 4 tracking would be great obviously if it was delivered and I'd be prime placed to benefit from it... But I'd prefer to face reality, such projects here routinely get killed, maimed or get tied up for decades because of local objections.

I know for a fact, there is one stretch at Portmarnock station that's hemmed in on both sides by apartment blocks. Hard to see where the extra tracks will fit there.

CIE's record of delivering anything of that scale is poor to abject so forgive me my pessimism.

By the way - 35k per square metre? Is that right? Is that market rate?

Last Stop · 17-11-2019 2:41pm

lawred2 wrote: »

Underground will be more expensive for sure but at least it's the start of a subterranean network. 4 tracking would be great obviously if it was delivered and I'd be prime placed to benefit from it... But I'd prefer to face reality, such projects here routinely get killed, maimed or get tied up for decades because of local objections.

People keep saying this but what transport projects (and in particular PT projects) have been killed by NIMBYism. I genuinely can’t think of any.

I know for a fact, there is one stretch at Portmarnock station that's hemmed in on both sides by apartment blocks. Hard to see where the extra tracks will fit there.

One pinch point? I’m sure the engineers will find a way

CIE's record of delivering anything of that scale is poor to abject so forgive me my pessimism.

And yet you’re suggesting they focus on a project three times this

By the way - 35k per square metre? Is that right? Is that market rate?

Sorry my mistake, it’s actually 25k https://www.independent.ie/news/environment/25k-for-a-square-metre-of-garden-homeowners-to-receive-compensation-in-new-bus-network-plan-37004982.html which reduces the costs mentioned above

lawred2 · 17-11-2019 2:43pm

Last Stop wrote: »

One pinch point? I’m sure the engineers will find a way

I'm sure they could demolish one of the apartment blocks.

Last Stop wrote: »

And yet you’re suggesting they focus on a project three times this

I wouldn't have CIE involved at all.

LXFlyer · 17-11-2019 3:05pm

I don't think that Jim Meade is suggesting that the entire line for Connolly to Malahide be four tracked, as that would require demolitions. However four tracking between Killester and Raheny to allow for a DART to be overtaken and addition of a southbound loop at Clongriffin would be a significant improvement.

Overtaking facilities are going to be needed to make journey times competitive.

The Kildare Route project was delivered within budget and on time, so I think you're being harsh on IE's abilities to do this.

marno21 · 17-11-2019 3:10pm

Quote:

“On the busy Northern Line, it is currently examining the possibility of four tracking it as far as Malahide, which would allow hourly services to Belfast taking just 90 minutes”

LXFlyer · 17-11-2019 3:23pm

marno21 wrote: »

Quote:

“On the busy Northern Line, it is currently examining the possibility of four tracking it as far as Malahide, which would allow hourly services to Belfast taking just 90 minutes”

I am aware of the quote, but the reality is that a partial four tracking as I suggest above is a more likely outcome given that there are developments right up to the railway around Howth Junction.

That and possibly some additional station loops north of Malahide would deliver the required capacity enhancements.

Last Stop · 17-11-2019 5:02pm

lawred2 wrote: »

I'm sure they could demolish one of the apartment blocks.

That’s one solution

I wouldn't have CIE involved at all.

You wouldn’t have CIE involved in a project which is being built to their standards, tying with their lines, requires their land to build it and was after all their idea. Good look with that.

lawred2 · 17-11-2019 5:30pm

Last Stop wrote: »

That’s one solution

You wouldn’t have CIE involved in a project which is being built to their standards, tying with their lines, requires their land to build it and was after all their idea. Good look with that.

No. That's not what I meant. I would prefer if we saw the commencement of a city wide underground not in CIE ownership or management and which would retire or take the pressure off the dart and/or possibly leave those tracks to inter city and commuter rail.

But hey failing that, if they can four track the northern line into the bottleneck that is Connolly without causing compete meltdown then I'll be happy to see that too.

But if that's never going to happen I'd prefer to see the money spent getting started on an underground

DART+ (DART Expansion)

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