TII Motorway Service Areas (MSA) Progress Thread

marno21 · 04-07-2018 11:19am

First MSA of Tranche 3 has been approved at Ringaskiddy on the M28. Will likely be built in conjunction with te motorway

tylercheribini · 17-07-2018 2:00pm

From today's Gorey Guardian.

serfboard · 17-07-2018 3:29pm

tylercheribini wrote: »

From today's Gorey Guardian.

Cllr Malcolm Byrne wrote:

There are serious questions to be asked of Transport Infrastructure Ireland and how they handled this process

What about the serious questions to be asked of Applegreen and how they delayed the opening of the station with their legal carry-on? Why don't you ask that question?

OldMrBrennan83 · 17-07-2018 3:51pm

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JupiterKid · 17-07-2018 4:43pm

tylercheribini wrote: »

From today's Gorey Guardian.

Long, long overdue. Now when will they get cracking on completing the other unfinished services?

L1011 · 17-07-2018 5:04pm

Does Cllr Mythen think that TII funds local healthcare or that leaving the site unsecured would have been a good idea?

Byrne trying to claim credit for something done on a national scale when he's a councillor; and the project that started this MSA was the pet project of the then minister with responsibility for funding it, from the same constituency is also particularly rich. His influence on it and my influence on it were identical (at nil), can I get my name on the front of the paper?

serfboard · 17-07-2018 5:12pm

Patww79 wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

If they had a fair reason to take it to court then why didn't they take it all the way?

OldMrBrennan83 · 17-07-2018 5:40pm

This post has been deleted.

17-07-2018 6:24pm

serfboard wrote: »

If they had a fair reason to take it to court then why didn't they take it all the way?

Settlements are the norm, not the exception.

Chris_5339762 · 17-07-2018 7:08pm

They knew full well what they were doing, merely forcing it to stay closed as long as possible.

blackwhite · 17-07-2018 9:01pm

serfboard wrote: »

If they had a fair reason to take it to court then why didn't they take it all the way?

The “challenge” served its purpose.

Applegreen north of Ashford has had a good number of years as the closest thing to “online” along the M11, and is probably close to having paid back it’s initial investment at this stage.

Same as M9, Applegreen Paulstown has a good 3/4 years before Topaz got their Carlow services opened, and the online services at Kilcullen are still lying dormant

Reuben1210 · 17-07-2018 9:08pm

blackwhite wrote: »

The “challenge” served its purpose.

Applegreen north of Ashford has had a good number of years as the closest thing to “online” along the M11, and is probably close to having paid back it’s initial investment at this stage.

Same as M9, Applegreen Paulstown has a good 3/4 years before Topaz got their Carlow services opened, and the online services at Kilcullen are still lying dormant

Exactly - a perfectly executed business protection move, taking advantage of the slowness and inefficiency of our planning/legal nexus!

blackwhite · 17-07-2018 10:31pm

Reuben1210 wrote: »

Exactly - a perfectly executed business protection move, taking advantage of the slowness and inefficiency of our planning/legal nexus!

Online MSAs in other countries typically have a payback period between 3-5 years, I’d be surprised if Applegreen have longer than 5-7 year payback at most on their off-line sites. Delays have definitely protected footfall on their sites for long enough to make it more than worthwhile.

18-07-2018 11:28am

It is possible to seek damages for a vexatious/frivolous claim. Topaz did not do so.

That the taxpayer are the ones left paying for the costs of the delay is a reflection of the poor tendering process that TII/NTA conducted.

tylercheribini · 18-07-2018 12:11pm

Will future Circle K service area vendors most likely be McDonald's?

serfboard · 18-07-2018 4:09pm

Deleted User wrote: »

That the taxpayer are the ones left paying for the costs of the delay is a reflection of the poor tendering process that TII/NTA conducted.

How do you know it was a poor tendering process?

Are you saying that if it was a good tendering process (whatever that is) and Applegreen lost, that they would not have taken their legal action?

If so, God love your innocence.

serfboard · 18-07-2018 4:12pm

tylercheribini wrote: »

Will future Circle K service area vendors most likely be McDonald's?

Based on what's been built so far, it looks like Circle K featuring McDonalds Vs Applegreen featuring BK.

flazio · 18-07-2018 4:18pm

Plus all the "plazas" with Supermacs. Although less loyal with the fuel suppliers, at least one is Texaco while the rest are Topaz.

marno21 · 18-07-2018 4:32pm

The Plaza Group seem to be expanding without playing any part in the official TII MSA tendering, they seem to be doing well out of it today.

It's fully how back in the day the viability of some of these service areas were questioned. We'll soon have one at every junction and there'll still be demand for more.

roadmaster · 18-07-2018 4:36pm

Did the whole issue with applegreen and topaz come from applegreen lodging a complaint about the thickness of footpaths?

plodder · 18-07-2018 5:15pm

serfboard wrote: »

How do you know it was a poor tendering process?

Are you saying that if it was a good tendering process (whatever that is) and Applegreen lost, that they would not have taken their legal action?

If so, God love your innocence.

Applegreen have appealed a planning decision for another filling station in Swords (where they have two already). They seem to be quite protective of their territories.

18-07-2018 5:25pm

serfboard wrote: »

How do you know it was a poor tendering process?

Are you saying that if it was a good tendering process (whatever that is) and Applegreen lost, that they would not have taken their legal action?

If so, God love your innocence.

Because a transparent and safe tendering process would not have been able to generate such legal activity. One of the core aims of a tendering process is to protect against legal action by unsuccessful tenderers.

You probably shouldn't talk about innocence unless your intention is to be unintentionally ironic, YMMV though.

Chris_5339762 · 18-07-2018 8:07pm

There is now a new sign on the N7 outbound. The old one said "No online services ahead, offline services at x y and z". Now the new sign says "Services ahead at Birdhill, junction number, and distance".

OldMrBrennan83 · 18-07-2018 8:11pm

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blackwhite · 18-07-2018 10:27pm

flazio wrote: »

Plus all the "plazas" with Supermacs. Although less loyal with the fuel suppliers, at least one is Texaco while the rest are Topaz.

Plazas are a Supermacs led development, not Topaz/Circle K.

They work as a “dealer” and just buy fuel from Topaz/Circle K and licence the branding etc.
Hence the shops aren’t the ReStore brand.

Approx 2 years ago there was an exclusive deal for McD to be Topaz partner on an fast food developments owned by Topaz. Based on Carlow I’d assume it’s still the case

secman · 18-07-2018 10:33pm

roadmaster wrote: »

Did the whole issue with applegreen and topaz come from applegreen lodging a complaint about the thickness of footpaths?

The judicial review was to ask why on a countback having scored equally in overall tender why the footpath was the deciding factor in awarding the contract to the then Topaz group.
The fit out on M11 station is to start in early August and McDonald's will be in that site too.

Ernest · 19-07-2018 8:27am

Chris_5339762 wrote: »

There is now a new sign on the N7 outbound. The old one said "No online services ahead, offline services at x y and z". Now the new sign says "Services ahead at Birdhill, junction number, and distance".

That sounds, in one way, a disimprovement. Has the old sign saying "No online services ahead, offline services at x,y, and z" now actually been removed??

If the new sign was additional to the old ond and said "Offline service ahead at Birdhill, junction No and distance" that would be helpful but if the old sign showing alternative service areas ahead including whether they are offline or online has been replaced by this new one, then this is a disgrace - removing information about choice and suggesting only one (off-line) service area option.

tylercheribini · 19-07-2018 2:56pm

secman wrote: »

The fit out on M11 station is to start in early August

Source?

s14driftking · 19-07-2018 8:19pm

It should be compulsory fir any service station on a motorway to provide showers espically if there providing truck parking. Disgraceful that very few premises have showers

ezra_ · 19-07-2018 8:20pm

s14driftking wrote: »

It should be compulsory fir any service station on a motorway to provide showers espically if there providing truck parking. Disgraceful that very few premises have showers

What online motorway service stations don't have showers?

D Trent · 19-07-2018 8:24pm

ezra_ wrote: »

What online motorway service stations don't have showers?

He probably means 24hr showers, Applegreen Lusk, C'Bellingham, and Enfield just have 24hr toilets.

ezra_ · 19-07-2018 8:26pm

D Trent wrote: »

He probably means 24hr showers, Applegreen Lusk, C'Bellingham, and Enfield just have 24hr toilets.

Fair enough, I didn't know they weren't available 24/7

marno21 · 20-07-2018 12:24am

The online MSAs should really be 24 hour operations, and not the pissy attempts they are at night. Having outdoor toilets at these premises after 12 simply discourages use and one of the main purposes of these areas is to provide services to people who may be tired.

Aontachtoir · 23-07-2018 3:36am

Two articles in the Times today about MSAs.

The first talks again about the end of the legal battle over the Gorey, Kilcullen, and Moate MSAs. Confirmation again that Gorey is due to be open by the end of the year, and Kilcullen and Moate (which will be built by Circle K) are due to open next summer.

The second article is about Pat McDonagh, who has just resubmitted a planning permission request for a large Barack Obama Plaza-style MSA on the M18 at Ennis (the first on the 101 km stretch of motorway). This MSA will supposedly double as a tourist information centre, with the intention of recruiting tourists travelling between Limerick and Galway, and directing them out into County Clare. Not a bad idea at all. Separately, the article mentions that TII are planning to review their planned MSA developments in the coming year.

Now that there are offline services available at Ballacolla, Cashel, and Fermoy, does anyone know if TII are planning to drop plans to build online services for the M8?

Chris_5339762 · 23-07-2018 4:59pm

Aontachtoir wrote: »

Now that there are offline services available at Ballacolla, Cashel, and Fermoy, does anyone know if TII are planning to drop plans to build online services for the M8?

They never had any concrete plans at all. The M8 has always been forgotten from the MSA list.

marno21 · 23-07-2018 5:16pm

TII planned to open the MSAs in tranches. For many reasons, there are 3 active tranches at present (planned opening dates in brackets)

Tranche 2: Moate M6 (2019), Kilcullen M9 (2019), Gorey M11 (2018)
Tranche 3: Foynes Mxx (2025), Ringaskiddy M28 (2024)
Tranche 4: Dunshaughlin M3 (2020), Oranmore M6/M17/M18 (2020), Newmarket on Fergus M18 (2020)

Redsoxfan · 24-07-2018 7:24pm

marno21 wrote:

Tranche 2: Moate M6 (2019), Kilcullen M9 (2019), Gorey M11 (2018) Tranche 3: Foynes Mxx (2025), Ringaskiddy M28 (2024) Tranche 4: Dunshaughlin M3 (2020), Oranmore M6/M17/M18 (2020), Newmarket on Fergus M18 (2020)

Is Moate the one where ramps are already in place?

L1011 · 24-07-2018 7:26pm

All of Tranche 2 has the bridges in place; Gorey has the building shell also.

whyulittle · 28-08-2018 7:16pm

Cones went up around the M6 Athlone/Moate MSA today.

A new services sign went up near Kinnegad a few weeks back, with "Athlone Junction 7-8 45 km" on it. Took them a few days to grey-out the 7-8 part.

fricatus · 29-08-2018 6:41am

whyulittle wrote: »

A new services sign went up near Kinnegad a few weeks back, with "Athlone Junction 7-8 45 km" on it. Took them a few days to grey-out the 7-8 part.

Similarly, there's a new sign right at the start of the M9, Waterford end, which mentions services between junctions 2 and 3. It hasn't yet been greyed out...

Kermit.de.frog · 31-08-2018 10:23pm

marno21 wrote: »

TII planned to open the MSAs in tranches. For many reasons, there are 3 active tranches at present (planned opening dates in brackets)

Tranche 2: Moate M6 (2019), Kilcullen M9 (2019), Gorey M11 (2018)
Tranche 3: Foynes Mxx (2025), Ringaskiddy M28 (2024)
Tranche 4: Dunshaughlin M3 (2020), Oranmore M6/M17/M18 (2020), Newmarket on Fergus M18 (2020)

How can there be a motorway service place for Foynes when the link road will not be a motorway?

Only the M21 is getting short extension

marno21 · 02-09-2018 9:52pm

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

How can there be a motorway service place for Foynes when the link road will not be a motorway?

Only the M21 is getting short extension

The port access elements of the M21 and M28 will be single carriageway protected roads, both service areas will be on non motorway protected roads but these roads will be directly connected to the motorway network and will be de facto part of the motorway network, even if they don't have blue signs.

The Foynes link road from the M21 will be single carriageway due to traffic volume. The M28 will not continue all the way into the Port of Cork due to space constraints.

Kevtherev1 · 09-11-2018 4:06pm

Does anyone have news / progress report for the Gorey Motorway Service area. Is the fit out of the MSA nearly finished. Is it still opening in November or December or has it been delayed

spacetweek · 10-11-2018 12:49pm

Kevtherev1 wrote: »

Does anyone have news / progress report for the Gorey Motorway Service area. Is the fit out of the MSA nearly finished. Is it still opening in November or December or has it been delayed

Couldn't find anything there when I looked. This indo article from July 2018 says Gorey will be open by the end of the year and M6 and M9 in summer 2019.
I suppose they still have 2 months to open Gorey.

Sam Russell · 10-11-2018 2:08pm

spacetweek wrote: »

Couldn't find anything there when I looked. This indo article from July 2018 says Gorey will be open by the end of the year and M6 and M9 in summer 2019.
I suppose they still have 2 months to open Gorey.

The Athlone one on the M6 has construction work going on at the moment.

Kermit.de.frog · 10-11-2018 5:06pm

Thread started 10 years a go.

Demonstrates how slow we are building basic stuff in this country.

serfboard · 12-11-2018 5:58pm

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Thread started 10 years a go.

Demonstrates how slow we are building basic stuff in this country.

In fairness, we did have (IIRC) the largest per-capita bank-bailout in the history of the world in the meantime ...

marno21 · 13-11-2018 2:18pm

serfboard wrote: »

In fairness, we did have (IIRC) the largest per-capita bank-bailout in the history of the world in the meantime ...

MSAs are pocket change in comparison and have significant safety benefits though.

Thankfully the private sector has mainly sorted this issue, apart from the M18. Whoever wins the M18 MSA race is in for quite the payday.

ongarboy · 13-11-2018 2:36pm

Circle K advertising for shop and deli staff for their Gorey MSA so an opening before Christmas sounds plausible.

They also say in this article that they'll be opening MSAs in Wexford, Westmeath and 2 in Kildare. Apart from Gorey and Moate, where are the locations of the 2 Kildare MSAs they are referring to, does anyone know?

https://www.checkout.ie/forecourt-rebrand-comes-full-circle/67422

marno21 · 13-11-2018 2:44pm

ongarboy wrote: »

Circle K advertising for shop and deli staff for their Gorey MSA so an opening before Christmas sounds plausible.

They also say in this article that they'll be opening MSAs in Wexford, Westmeath and 2 in Kildare. Apart from Gorey and Moate, where are the locations of the 2 Kildare MSAs they are referring to, does anyone know?

https://www.checkout.ie/forecourt-rebrand-comes-full-circle/67422

Kildare - Kilcullen M9 and the redeveloped one just north of Goffs?

TII Motorway Service Areas (MSA) Progress Thread

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