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What is wrong with the site? (Please read updated post #1)

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    #1832
    Dav
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,840 ✭✭✭Dav


    OK, but no one seems to be willing to give us even the most small benefit of the doubt about how many people find our current site impossible to work with - you will never read their feedback on the site, it's never going to be logged here because that's part of the problem. The current site is not perfect or anything even remotely close to it and insisting that just because you can use it somehow invalidates the opinions of people who can't isn't going to get us anywhere.

    What are we doing?
    Trying to make it neater and more obvious about how to get around and use our website. It's that simple. We're not doing it to show you more ads and make more money - we're going to have fewer ads believe it or not and we'd be saving a LOT of money if we didn't do this at all and simply left the site as it was.

    Almost 60% of our traffic is now on a mobile device. This time last year it was closer to 50% The year before it was in or around 35% - I think you can see the trend - it's the same all over the web. The current touch.boards.ie site is missing huge chunks of information and functionality that "full site" users have had access to for years. Making a single responsive site means that's no longer a problem - we'll have parity for all members - be they a brief Google driven visitor or someone who's been a part of the furniture for over ten years. Can we all at least agree that this is a good idea?

    There are literally dozens of different ways to browse this site. We find new ways of doing it every time we make any kind of change. If we've removed your preferred means of navigation, it was almost certainly not an intentional decision, just an effort to make things cleaner and easier. Tell us what's missing in a clear and ideally step by step so we can replicate it and figure out how to either implement it or explain what alternative there is and why.

    Technical problems arising from all this aside (they're 100% on us and please accept our apologies for that), there has clearly been a disastrous lack of communications from our tech team on the Beta forum. I'm putting my hand up and saying that I should have looked at this more - I'm so used to the people working here keeping people updated with what they're doing that I just assumed that part of the project would be business as normal. But as I said, all the progress meetings from the team said they were working from an internal bug list that was raised based on the comments in that forum as well as our own internal testing.


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    #1833
    Hollister11
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,482 ✭✭✭Hollister11


    OSI wrote: »
    This bollocks was spouted the last time a re-design was done. Funnily enough the site is busier now than ever.

    The site is busy, becasue boards.ie is addictive. But i like many other people think the new design is atrocious. Which it is.

    Its utter horse ****e.


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    #1834
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Hollister11 wrote: »
    Dav, what would boards.ie do if half the use stopped using the site becasue of your resual to listen. We don't want an update. The site is perfect the way it is.
    The thing is, it really isn't. The UI is grand but the back-end has been unfit for purpose for many years. I don't like responsive sites but that seems to be the way everything is going.


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    #1835
    JCX BXC
    Registered Users Posts: 18,115 ✭✭✭✭JCX BXC


    The old site is perfectly fit for purpose and doesn't need changing, the new site is very plastic and not in a nice way. Things like the Thanks function, the reply function are greatly harder to see, and not blatantly obvious as they should be.


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    #1836
    smash
    Closed Accounts Posts: 34,809 ✭✭✭✭smash


    Dav wrote: »
    OK, but no one seems to be willing to give us even the most small benefit of the doubt about how many people find our current site impossible to work with - you will never read their feedback on the site, it's never going to be logged here because that's part of the problem. The current site is not perfect or anything even remotely close to it and insisting that just because you can use it somehow invalidates the opinions of people who can't isn't going to get us anywhere.

    Can you explain the reasoning why you feel the new site is more usable?
    Dav wrote: »
    Almost 60% of our traffic is now on a mobile device. This time last year it was closer to 50% The year before it was in or around 35% - I think you can see the trend - it's the same all over the web. The current touch.boards.ie site is missing huge chunks of information and functionality that "full site" users have had access to for years. Making a single responsive site means that's no longer a problem - we'll have parity for all members - be they a brief Google driven visitor or someone who's been a part of the furniture for over ten years. Can we all at least agree that this is a good idea?
    Good idea, very bad execution.


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    #1837
    Hollister11
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,482 ✭✭✭Hollister11


    OSI wrote: »
    Hollister11 wrote: »
    Dav wrote: »
    OK, but no one seems to be willing to give us even the most small benefit of the doubt about how many people find our current site impossible to work with - you will never read their feedback on the site, it's never going to be logged here because that's part of the problem. The current site is not perfect or anything even remotely close to it and insisting that just because you can use it somehow invalidates the opinions of people who can't isn't going to get us anywhere.

    And the new site ain't an improvment. 100% waste of resources, time and money.
    Now, using your words, explain what about the new design doesn't work.
    Add your reply here

    On the new site 'My Threads', 'My Forums' ect don't stand out. Unless you know where they are, the first time you use the beta site its a struggle.

    There is no "Trending Thread" Forum.

    Sometimes when moving between forums and userCP it reverets between beta, and legacy sites.

    Hover over 'My Forums' at the top navigation bar. The layout of the forums isn't easy on the eye, they seem like they were just thrown in there.

    You can't select view a forum from the first unread post, you have to click into the thread and navigate to where you were.

    The announcements and sponsored thread don't stand out. There just like normal threads.


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    #1838
    The_Conductor
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 32,279 Mod ✭✭✭✭The_Conductor


    Dav wrote: »

    Almost 60% of our traffic is now on a mobile device. This time last year it was closer to 50% The year before it was in or around 35% - I think you can see the trend - it's the same all over the web. The current touch.boards.ie site is missing huge chunks of information and functionality that "full site" users have had access to for years. Making a single responsive site means that's no longer a problem - we'll have parity for all members - be they a brief Google driven visitor or someone who's been a part of the furniture for over ten years. Can we all at least agree that this is a good idea?

    Recent trends surely show a change- a lot of people are moving from using the mobile site on mobile devices- to instead using the fullfat version of the site- on their mobile devices instead. With reasonable 4G coverage and as much as you can eat data- the imperative to have a fully fledged mobile site is diminishing?

    It is a bit nuts that people aren't giving feedback on the proposed changes- and that it only comes to the fore on days like this- where a few people got bounced onto it when the guys were trying out different load balancing scenarios.

    Personally- while I don't like the colour scheme- the layout is a definite improvement- though why there are so many posts on the front page is a bit beyond me- perhaps capping it at 20 (or even less) would be a better way of going.

    The main roadmap I'm using on the site at the moment- is the 'My Forums' drop down list- as I find it quite difficult to find forums I've used in the recent past otherwise. Try navigating to the Long Term Illness forum- as an example- good luck to people who are actually looking for it- and as for one of the forums I moderate- the Adoption Forum- our traffic level has fallen off a cliff- as its so difficult to find..........

    Having so many separate forums- poses many challenges- not least- how to advise visitors of their existence- without cluttering the screen and degrading their experience of the website. However- the current version of the site (not the beta)- took that too far- in my opinion- which is why some posters are getting so hot under the collar regarding the post of the day and the featured posts on the home page- they are using these as stepping stones to navigate to what they imagine to be the highlights of the day- when in actual fact there could well be a wealth of other posts that simply haven't made the front page- that people may be interested in- but are going to be arsed trying to navigate to.........

    No matter what you do- you're not going to please everyone- and indeed- there is a large cohort of people out there who simply dislike change and will moan and groan even if what they're being presented with is far more useful to them............

    I need coffee.


  • Options
    #1839
    Boards.ie: Diego
    Closed Accounts Posts: 117 ✭✭Boards.ie: Diego


    Hollister11 wrote: »
    OSI wrote: »
    Hollister11 wrote: »
    Dav wrote: »
    OK, but no one seems to be willing to give us even the most small benefit of the doubt about how many people find our current site impossible to work with - you will never read their feedback on the site, it's never going to be logged here because that's part of the problem. The current site is not perfect or anything even remotely close to it and insisting that just because you can use it somehow invalidates the opinions of people who can't isn't going to get us anywhere.

    And the new site ain't an improvment. 100% waste of resources, time and money.
    Now, using your words, explain what about the new design doesn't work.
    Add your reply here

    On the new site 'My Threads', 'My Forums' ect don't stand out. Unless you know where they are, the first time you use the beta site its a struggle.

    There is no "Trending Thread" Forum.

    Sometimes when moving between forums and userCP it reverets between beta, and legacy sites.

    Hover over 'My Forums' at the top navigation bar. The layout of the forums isn't easy on the eye, they seem like they were just thrown in there.

    You can't select view a forum from the first unread post, you have to click into the thread and navigate to where you were.

    The announcements and sponsored thread don't stand out. There just like normal threads.
    Hi,

    Can you post a screenshot of your beta home page? I am not sure what are you seeing.


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    #1840
    Mr.Prodston
    Registered Users Posts: 16,304 ✭✭✭✭Mr.Prodston


    Would it be possible to draw up some kind of survey/feedback thread in each forum/community. Just a generic thread for each forum to get some feedback from, for want of a better phrase, "grassroots posters".

    A lot of posters would only use one or two forums and may not ever even look at the main page or feedback to express satisfaction or dissatisfaction.

    If feedback from every poster is important then it could be invaluable to get a more accurate reflection on how those who use the site work.

    I personally didn't like the beta at all and found it very difficult to use. I don't have the technical vocabulary to explain why I don't like it but I still feel like it has to be useful to let you know.

    The Fantasy Sports Arena is my home on boards and I'd be fearful of our excellent community breaking down if it became harder/more different to use.

    I understand it's not just change for the sake of change. HOWEVER. It feels like that's exactly what it is a lot of the time.

    Considering the week that's in it wouldn't some kind of "Boardsie Census" be an idea in the next few months? As user's of the site it would be interesting to see how the user base actually feel about the site, it's direction, what we like and what we don't?

    I'm not an idiot and I know it would be a lot of work but the fundamental usability and visuals of the site are seemingly set to change and the actual feedback from users actually posting is negative within these threads. I don't doubt some people find the site unusable in its current state but the former outweighs the latter. Giving everyone a chance to give their views in a place they feel more comfortable giving it could only be a good thing? What do I know though :pac:

    That's my opinion and it's my feedback on the new boards. Perhaps my legacy if you will :P


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    #1841
    Hollister11
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,482 ✭✭✭Hollister11


    On SS3 - thats what i get when clicking "Followed Threads" in the user CP in the beta.


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    #1842
    intheclouds
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,175 ✭✭✭intheclouds


    Hollister11 wrote: »
    Add your reply here

    On the new site 'My Threads', 'My Forums' ect don't stand out. Unless you know where they are, the first time you use the beta site its a struggle.

    There is no "Trending Thread" Forum.

    Sometimes when moving between forums and userCP it reverets between beta, and legacy sites.

    Hover over 'My Forums' at the top navigation bar. The layout of the forums isn't easy on the eye, they seem like they were just thrown in there.

    You can't select view a forum from the first unread post, you have to click into the thread and navigate to where you were.

    The announcements and sponsored thread don't stand out. There just like normal threads.

    There isnt a way to view "New Posts" - which is the only way I use the site.


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    #1843
    Boards.ie: Diego
    Closed Accounts Posts: 117 ✭✭Boards.ie: Diego


    Hollister11 wrote: »
    On SS3 - thats what i get when clicking "Followed Threads" in the user CP in the beta.
    Thanks for that. I see your point with the "My forums" layout on the menu. Also that last screenshot should not be happening.

    Working on it.


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    #1844
    Hollister11
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,482 ✭✭✭Hollister11


    Boards.ie: Diego wrote: »
    Thanks for that. I see your point with the "My forums" layout on the menu. Also that last screenshot should not be happening.

    Working on it.

    I would like to apologize if i came across quite negative in my previous posts.
    I'm an aspiring web developer and i understand what its like when people don't value the work you put in.

    Best of luck in the development.


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    #1845
    4zn76tysfajdxp
    Closed Accounts Posts: 27,944 ✭✭✭✭4zn76tysfajdxp


    OSI wrote: »
    Hollister11 wrote: »
    Dav wrote: »
    OK, but no one seems to be willing to give us even the most small benefit of the doubt about how many people find our current site impossible to work with - you will never read their feedback on the site, it's never going to be logged here because that's part of the problem. The current site is not perfect or anything even remotely close to it and insisting that just because you can use it somehow invalidates the opinions of people who can't isn't going to get us anywhere.

    And the new site ain't an improvment. 100% waste of resources, time and money.
    Now, using your words, explain what about the new design doesn't work.
    Pardon me but is there any need for this kind of response? Or is it official Boards.ie policy for the moderators to talk down to the users when they offer Feedback?


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    #1846
    Skylinehead
    Registered Users Posts: 11,690 ✭✭✭✭Skylinehead


    Roberto Straight Archery wrote: »
    Pardon me but is there any need for this kind of response? Or is it official Boards.ie policy for the moderators to talk down to the users when they offer Feedback?
    Sorry, what exactly do mods have to do with this?


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    #1847
    ThisRegard
    Closed Accounts Posts: 27,834 ✭✭✭✭ThisRegard


    Dav wrote: »
    OK, but no one seems to be willing to give us even the most small benefit of the doubt about how many people find our current site impossible to work with - you will never read their feedback on the site, it's never going to be logged here because that's part of the problem.

    As a matter of interest, how do you know about these people and what changes to the site will make it possible for them to use?


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    #1848
    4zn76tysfajdxp
    Closed Accounts Posts: 27,944 ✭✭✭✭4zn76tysfajdxp


    Skylinehead wrote: »
    Sorry, what exactly do mods have to do with this?

    Personally I believe that it's important for moderators not to speak condescendingly to users offering Feedback, what with them being somewhat representative of the site.

    The "higher ups" already have a reputation for being aloof and out of touch when it comes to the regular users.


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    #1849
    Skylinehead
    Registered Users Posts: 11,690 ✭✭✭✭Skylinehead


    Roberto Straight Archery wrote: »
    Personally I believe that it's important for moderators not to speak condescendingly to users offering Feedback, what with them being somewhat representative of the site.

    The "higher ups" already have a reputation for being aloof and out of touch when it comes to the regular users.
    When it comes to anything outside our own forums, we're just users.


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    #1850
    oscarBravo
    Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 28,792 Mod ✭✭✭✭oscarBravo


    Roberto Straight Archery wrote: »
    Pardon me but is there any need for this kind of response?

    It elicited some constructive criticism, so I guess it's fair to say there is.


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    #1851
    4zn76tysfajdxp
    Closed Accounts Posts: 27,944 ✭✭✭✭4zn76tysfajdxp


    Skylinehead wrote: »
    Roberto Straight Archery wrote: »
    Personally I believe that it's important for moderators not to speak condescendingly to users offering Feedback, what with them being somewhat representative of the site.

    The "higher ups" already have a reputation for being aloof and out of touch when it comes to the regular users.
    When it comes to anything outside our own forums, we're just users.
    On the Beta skin, it doesn't display which forums those particular users moderate.

    How is one supposed to know that they're posting outside their own forums?


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    #1852
    Skylinehead
    Registered Users Posts: 11,690 ✭✭✭✭Skylinehead


    Roberto Straight Archery wrote: »
    On the Beta skin, it doesn't display which forums those particular users moderate.

    How is one supposed to know that they're posting outside their own forums?
    Well there's a bug :D


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    #1853
    osarusan
    Registered Users Posts: 16,562 ✭✭✭✭osarusan


    Roberto Straight Archery wrote: »
    On the Beta skin, it doesn't display which forums those particular users moderate.

    How is one supposed to know that they're posting outside their own forums?


    ooooooh, well played sir, well played.


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    #1854
    Boards.ie: Diego
    Closed Accounts Posts: 117 ✭✭Boards.ie: Diego


    Hi guys,

    We are not just redesigning the website because we want to. There is two problems we are dealing with:

    [ul][li]We are working with a heavily modified vBulletin platform. That means that any attempt to create a new functionality or modify/improve an existing one is close to impossible.[/li][li]As Dav said, almost 60% of our traffic comes from mobile, so having a responsive site makes a lot of sense. Otherwise we would have to maintain two sites and implement features twice.[/li][/ul]

    All this have lead us to improve and expand our API and rebuild the site on top of a new, flexible and extendable framework. This is still a work in progress and will be for a long time but in the end will help us to create new features easier and faster.

    Of course we listen to all of you and our only intention is to have a better website that will be able to improve quicker and more often. Your feedback is been taken into account, help us to improve.

    Diego


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    #1855
    Dav
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,840 ✭✭✭Dav


    OK, we're making progress here.

    We've just had a chat internally about the frankly embarrassing mess up we've made about communicating our progress or decisions around the beta feedback forum. Tomorrow morning, the whole lot of us in the office are having a sit down to get this process sorted. We're also going to publish our own bug list and we're going to invite you to add to it and a features requests list which will help dictate our next course of action.

    There are some other questions being asked about how we arrive at the decisions we make or where these other people who tell us they can't use the current site come from. Last year we did a survey asking for feedback on what people felt was good and bad about the site and we did our best to target equal numbers of logged in members and non-account holding visitors. That's where a lot of the information for the planning process came from. We've also had a long string of people in meetings over the years who say "no, we're not engaging with that place, it doesn't make any sense to us" - these are smart people who work online every day of their lives and for whom a complex interface like Facebook isn't a problem - so they're not stupid, they're just not able to discover how things work over here.

    So all I can ask right now is that you give us tomorrow to get this stuff organised - I don't want to half arse it again and lead us into this sort of situation. Again, I'm putting my hand up and apologising for us finding ourselves in this position. I've been thinking about a new Boards.ie since I started here 7 years ago and now that it's close, I really want it to work well for everyone.


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    #1856
    smash
    Closed Accounts Posts: 34,809 ✭✭✭✭smash


    Can I just say to the dev team; your underlying issues with vbulletin and server balancing are not an excuse for implementing a poor UI design and and a bad user experience. Your product relies on its userbase, quite a few who are involved with design and development, so instead of fobbing us off like you did during the first round of feedback, how about you open your ears?

    The new layout has clearly come from a developer led environment where the style has been adopted from sites that have been perceived to be "cool". The reality is that it looks like a blog, and it's outdated already.


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    #1857
    TerrorFirmer
    Closed Accounts Posts: 29,930 ✭✭✭✭TerrorFirmer


    OSI wrote: »
    This bollocks was spouted the last time a re-design was done. Funnily enough the site is busier now than ever.

    The last update just changed the functionality mostly (still didn't like it but the core experience per forum was largely unchanged admittedly) - this one completely changes the way boards has fundamentally looked and been laid out for a very long time.

    The UI just looks bad.


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    #1858
    Dav
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,840 ✭✭✭Dav


    We've actually had three UI/UX designers work on the UI. Our developers have had ZERO design input, theirs is to make what's on the design come to life and that's all they've been doing.


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    #1859
    smash
    Closed Accounts Posts: 34,809 ✭✭✭✭smash


    Dav wrote: »
    We've actually had three UI/UX designers work on the UI.

    Interns?


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    #1860
    Discodog
    Registered Users Posts: 15,845 ✭✭✭✭Discodog


    I suspect that I speak for many. If you have to change it then, the way to make the change acceptable, is to make it or make it possible to have it look like the old site.

    GMail enforced an unpopular change on it's user but after much protest, they came up with ways to make the site look pretty similar to the old site. You may have your reasons to change but you should take into account the opinions of the people who make the site.

    If the final version is anything like the previews then I will still use the site, when I have to, but my usage will drop a lot. No doubt that some will say that they will get used to it & we are all a bunch of luddites. Maybe Boards are more interested in finding new users rather than keeping the existing users happy ?


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    #1861
    Discodog
    Registered Users Posts: 15,845 ✭✭✭✭Discodog


    smash wrote: »
    Can I just say to the dev team; your underlying issues with vbulletin and server balancing are not an excuse for implementing a poor UI design and and a bad user experience. Your product relies on its userbase, quite a few who are involved with design and development, so instead of fobbing us off like you did during the first round of feedback, how about you open your ears?

    The new layout has clearly come from a developer led environment where the style has been adopted from sites that have been perceived to be "cool". The reality is that it looks like a blog, and it's outdated already.

    Why does it have to be cool ? Why can't it be user friendly & work really well on mobiles - Oh it already does.


This discussion has been closed.
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