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25-03-2014, 22:27   #1141
infacteh
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Originally Posted by fr3d12 View Post
They didn't have a lot to say while he was Commissioner did they.
They were going to pass a motion of no confidence at one of their conferences, but withdrew at last minute. I can only assume they were bullied and/or threatened by the Commissioner into withdrawing it.

I presume they learned their lesson not to do such disgusting insubordinate acts!
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25-03-2014, 22:28   #1142
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to be fair both the GRA and AGSI have called for an independant Garda Authority to take over promotions in An Garda Siochana, to take away the political appointments that currently goes on.
John Redmond behaved atrociously over the GSOC bugging affair. He said that Simon O'Brien should "consider his position". He had no business, or authority to make any such statement - but the fact that he did spoke volumes.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland...gn-258504.html
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25-03-2014, 22:30   #1143
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to be fair both the GRA and AGSI have called for an independant Garda Authority to take over promotions in An Garda Siochana, to take away the political appointments that currently goes on.
They still didn't support the whistleblowers though, even if they disagreed with some of the WB's methods, surely they would have recognised the good they did.
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25-03-2014, 22:35   #1144
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They were going to pass a motion of no confidence at one of their conferences, but withdrew at last minute. I can only assume they were bullied and/or threatened by the Commissioner into withdrawing it.

I presume they learned their lesson not to do such disgusting insubordinate acts!
It suited AGSI and GRA to support Callinan (and even Shatter) recently. They had common enemies in GSOC and the whistleblowers. It's all blown wide open now though and who knows what will happen. I really can't see Shatter surviving this though. Ultimately the real winners will hopefully be the public, the ordinary rank and file members of AGS and GSOC.
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25-03-2014, 22:35   #1145
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They were going to pass a motion of no confidence at one of their conferences, but withdrew at last minute. I can only assume they were bullied and/or threatened by the Commissioner into withdrawing it.

I presume they learned their lesson not to do such disgusting insubordinate acts!
Thinking about a no confidence motion and actually putting it to the vote are two different things, action speaks volumes.
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25-03-2014, 22:37   #1146
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They still didn't support the whistleblowers though, even if they disagreed with some of the WB's methods, surely they would have recognised the good they did.
just because they didnt come out publically and say anything doesnt mean they dont agree with the whistleblowers.

what you have to remember is GRA and AGSI are all Gardai, they HAVE to wait until they have ALL the evidence is produced before coming out on one side or the other.

they cant just stand up and back someone who alleges something without the evidence to back it up.
and by evidence, it means waiting for enquiries/independent reports to come in, so they have all the facts in front of them, then they can come out and say something.

it would be a LOT worse if representative associations were just picking sides without waiting to see all the evidence.
im sure after they get to read independent reports they will make a statement.

and you have no idea what supports they are giving to anyone behind the scenes.
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25-03-2014, 22:40   #1147
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just because they didnt come out publically and say anything doesnt mean they dont agree with the whistleblowers.

what you have to remember is GRA and AGSI are all Gardai, they HAVE to wait until they have ALL the evidence is produced before coming out on one side or the other.

they cant just stand up and back someone who alleges something without the evidence to back it up.
and by evidence, it means waiting for enquiries/independent reports to come in, so they have all the facts in front of them, then they can come out and say something.


it would be a LOT worse if representative associations were just picking sides without waiting to see all the evidence.
im sure after they get to read independent reports they will make a statement.

and you have no idea what supports they are giving to anyone behind the scenes.

hey cant just stand up and back someone who alleges something without the evidence to back it up.
and by evidence, it means waiting for enquiries/independent reports to come in, so they have all the facts in front of them, then they can come out and say something.


Eg Claire Daly.
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25-03-2014, 22:43   #1148
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hey cant just stand up and back someone who alleges something without the evidence to back it up.
and by evidence, it means waiting for enquiries/independent reports to come in, so they have all the facts in front of them, then they can come out and say something.


Eg Claire Daly.

please explain this?
when did the GRA or AGSI ever say that Clare Daly was guilty of any offence?
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25-03-2014, 22:49   #1149
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just because they didnt come out publically and say anything doesnt mean they dont agree with the whistleblowers.

what you have to remember is GRA and AGSI are all Gardai, they HAVE to wait until they have ALL the evidence is produced before coming out on one side or the other.

they cant just stand up and back someone who alleges something without the evidence to back it up.
and by evidence, it means waiting for enquiries/independent reports to come in, so they have all the facts in front of them, then they can come out and say something.

it would be a LOT worse if representative associations were just picking sides without waiting to see all the evidence.
im sure after they get to read independent reports they will make a statement.

and you have no idea what supports they are giving to anyone behind the scenes.
You started a thread in AH casting aspersions on the whistleblowers! They have since been officially vindicated and the bulk of their assertions have been proven - but the public knew this all along. The Whistleblowers were ostracised and bullied by fellow members of AGS and received no support whatsoever from their representative bodies. You are now giving the same line as Redmond and rowing back and trying to say that you support the Whistleblowers!

The GRA, AGSI, you and a lot of members of AGS do not support the Whistleblowers, and this is a problem that has yet to be addressed.
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25-03-2014, 22:56   #1150
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You started a thread in AH casting aspersions on the whistleblowers! They have since been officially vindicated and the bulk of their assertions have been proven - but the public knew this all along. The Whistleblowers were ostracised and bullied by fellow members of AGS and received no support whatsoever from their representative bodies. You are now giving the same line as Redmond and rowing back and trying to say that you support the Whistleblowers!

The GRA, AGSI, you and a lot of members of AGS do not support the Whistleblowers, and this is a problem that has yet to be addressed.
no, im not saying i support them.
im not saying that at all, i dont know ALL the details.

i dont know that they did everything they could before they went to TDs, or if they just couldnt be bothered waiting for the Garda authorities to do something.
i am not aware whether they actually did things right or not.

all im saying is that the GRA and AGSI could not come out and support people without having all the full facts themselves.
and like i said, you have no idea what the GRA and AGSI were doing behind the scenes.

im not rowing back, not at all. but if they are shown to have fully followed proceedures and had no other option then to go to TDs then ill have no problem saying they were right.
and ill say fair play to them for doing what they did.
but ill wait for all the evidence thanks.
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25-03-2014, 22:59   #1151
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please explain this?
when did the GRA or AGSI ever say that Clare Daly was guilty of any offence?
It was members of those organisations that decided to take her away in handcuffs over a suspected drink drive charge (when she was actually under the limit). You know that handcuffing a suspect for this charge is not normal protocol. It was also members who leaked the info to RTE.

On another note, I wonder how long it will be before the "missing" file on Shatter's breathalyser/asthma incident suddenly surface? This evening's warning shot from Callinan has probably made Shatter realise that the report is on its way, so I'd say he will resign before it is leaked.
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25-03-2014, 23:01   #1152
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Originally Posted by bubblypop View Post
just because they didnt come out publically and say anything doesnt mean they dont agree with the whistleblowers.

what you have to remember is GRA and AGSI are all Gardai, they HAVE to wait until they have ALL the evidence is produced before coming out on one side or the other.

they cant just stand up and back someone who alleges something without the evidence to back it up.
and by evidence, it means waiting for enquiries/independent reports to come in, so they have all the facts in front of them, then they can come out and say something.

it would be a LOT worse if representative associations were just picking sides without waiting to see all the evidence.
im sure after they get to read independent reports they will make a statement.

and you have no idea what supports they are giving to anyone behind the scenes.
Well this is utter tripe! Have a look online for reportings of which their are many on the views of the GRA on the Garda Reserves from day#1. NO way in Gods name did they wait for any evidence to prove their views that the Garda Reserves should not be there. No way!

Have a lickle lookie right here from 2006 for example and those views were materialised in at least two stations that I know of (can speak of personally) ; here and a tweet from 2011 right here.

From Oct 2nd 2006
Quote:
PJ Stone, the General Secretary of the Garda Representative Association (GRA), went over the top in his statement warning that his organisation would continue to oppose the new reserve, whose members would end up being hated and despised.
taken from the Examiner linkie above.

Thanks for reading,
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25-03-2014, 23:02   #1153
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Enda Kenny was informed of the recording of all phone calls on Sunday but didn't ring Alan Shatter until yesterday ?? Doesn't make sense !!!!

The letter from the AGs office to the Dept of Justice was hand delivered and was to be given directly to the Minister - supposedly this didn't happen. If Alan Shatter didn't get the letter until yesterday, what way does this man run his department.

The right to a fair trial which includes among others pre trial rights, including the right to consel and all the principles that this right infers have been breached by these recordings.
The rights of employees e.g. civil servant office staff, may also have been breached. Personal phone calls which should never have been recorded let alone held is mind boggling.
Alan Shatter is a legal expert, whats going on here?
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25-03-2014, 23:07   #1154
fr3d12
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Originally Posted by bubblypop View Post
just because they didnt come out publically and say anything doesnt mean they dont agree with the whistleblowers.

what you have to remember is GRA and AGSI are all Gardai, they HAVE to wait until they have ALL the evidence is produced before coming out on one side or the other.

they cant just stand up and back someone who alleges something without the evidence to back it up.
and by evidence, it means waiting for enquiries/independent reports to come in, so they have all the facts in front of them, then they can come out and say something.

it would be a LOT worse if representative associations were just picking sides without waiting to see all the evidence.
im sure after they get to read independent reports they will make a statement.

and you have no idea what supports they are giving to anyone behind the scenes.
The only support from the GRA came from Wilson in his stance with McCabe.
I believe you when you say the AGSI want senior positions appointed independently of the Govt. but only because it affects the promotion opportunities of it's members.

The whsitleblowers have been vindicated now so why haven't either come out and said well done lads?
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25-03-2014, 23:17   #1155
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Originally Posted by bubblypop View Post
just because they didnt come out publically and say anything doesnt mean they dont agree with the whistleblowers.

what you have to remember is GRA and AGSI are all Gardai, they HAVE to wait until they have ALL the evidence is produced before coming out on one side or the other.

they cant just stand up and back someone who alleges something without the evidence to back it up.
and by evidence, it means waiting for enquiries/independent reports to come in, so they have all the facts in front of them, then they can come out and say something.

it would be a LOT worse if representative associations were just picking sides without waiting to see all the evidence.
im sure after they get to read independent reports they will make a statement.

and you have no idea what supports they are giving to anyone behind the scenes.
So how would you equate all that with john Redmond of AGSI`s statement on natioal T.V. that Simon O Brien of GSOC should consider his position?

Seems when it comes to protecting themselves from any, even percieved criticism, there`s no problem with making judgements without any facts
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