[Sparky_Larks]

I paid the tax. 2 reasons
1) It is the law - If you don;t like the law then abide by it while campaigning to change it
2) It believe that we need a property tax

I think 100 is too low. I am willing for it to go up to more.

If we do not tax property( I believe in site value tax by the way) we have to tax something else.

Could put 1% on vat though that will drive down spending resulting in job losses in the retail sector.

Can increase income tax, but that will affect Jobs.

The question who should contribute more,
a low income pensioner, in central Dublin in a 4- bedroom house worth 650,000 close to bus links and rail links all subsidised by public transport,

or a moderately high earner( say 75,000 joint income), with 4 children living in Kildare , who cannot afford a house that is near to schools, shops buses etc, commuting 2 hours to work every day?

Every report at the moment says that it is the 55 to 75 year old age group ho have the largest disposable income, there for those who can pay most should pay most.

[Zamboni]

Originally Posted by Victor

You might moderate your statements and stick to the topic at hand.

No bother but I think it is the same topic.
It was brought in to fill the abyss that Brian Lenihan created when he incompetently guaranteed the banks debts.
The councils had money for all the services that are given as a reason for the household charge payments but they became some of the more ridiculous property developers themselves and lost a fortune.
It is just higer taxation under the guise of some noble contribution towards facilities.
And as a higher taxation it should be paid by those who can in income tax not by taxing people who have assets. Those assets were bought with taxed money. Leave them be.
Who are any of us to say whether RATM's mother should not live in a massive house?
I am sure her house was bought with nett income after taxation and now we wish to double charge her for the privilege. Well I say it is wrong.
Fine Gael can raise income taxes in December to cover the mess Brian Lenihan left this country in if they want but don't con us with crap about paying for local services by square metre owned rather than usage.

[daltonmd]

I think what will happen in cases like the OP's mother is that they will put a lien on the property. In the event of her death whatever tax is owed will come from her estate. Propbably not the solution anyone would wish for, but it may put your mothers fears at bay.

I think elderly people like the OPs mother are being scared half to death by things that are going on in this country.

[sellerbarry]

One question. If they don't have a database of homeowners, then how do they know who to send the fines to?

[Treanor2011]

It like the tv licence if you don't register they don't know who you are.if you reg and don't pay then you get fines . They don't have a database for this tax that's why they are looking at Irish company's esb etc to try to find a loophole to breaking the law and sharing personal data .if they do figure it out they will probably sell your info to marketing company's in other words it will make the data protection act void .

[MYOB]

Originally Posted by Treanor2011

It like the tv licence if you don't register they don't know who you are.if you reg and don't pay then you get fines . They don't have a database for this tax that's why they are looking at Irish company's esb etc to try to find a loophole to breaking the law and sharing personal data .if they do figure it out they will probably sell your info to marketing company's in other words it will make the data protection act void .

Paranoid much?

The TV licence DB is compiled by An Post from postal records. Which is why people who "don't register" first get "the householder" and later personalised demands. The reason they don't issue fines is that they need proof there is a TV there - whereas there is no proof required to prove that a household exists.

They're not "looking to try and find a loophole", they already have the exemption. They also have the Land Registry which is a far more detailed and accurate list of who owns what than anything else.

It won't make the Data Protection Act void, nor are the state going to sell information to marketing firms.

[Treanor2011]

Originally Posted by MYOB

Paranoid much?

The TV licence DB is compiled by An Post from postal records. Which is why people who "don't register" first get "the householder" and later personalised demands. The reason they don't issue fines is that they need proof there is a TV there - whereas there is no proof required to prove that a household exists.

They're not "looking to try and find a loophole", they already have the exemption. They also have the Land Registry which is a far more detailed and accurate list of who owns what than anything else.

It won't make the Data Protection Act void, nor are the state going to sell information to marketing firms.

Why are they trying to find a way to access databases such as esb s one then .if they already have this info why are they using scare tactics to get people to pay .does this mean people no longer have to donate money to the council when building a house I say donate loosely . Why is a tax expected from people who pay for all services privately them selfs .im asking you since you seem to have all the answers .

[blowtorch]

[QUOTE=NIMAN;77912645]
..... First off, it is attached to your property and so are the late fees, so if you ignore it now and try to sell in 15yrs time, you'll owe a pretty penny, and it will come out of your house sale...........

I'd tend to go with my belief that by not registering, I believe I have not succumed to being liable for any future charges. Had I registered, it would have been telling them that I agreed with any charges. That is the reason why they wanted people themselves to Register - I mean, they have enough information on the citizens of this country, that they could have send out a questionnaire to everyone of house-bearing age asking whether they owned their home, or from whom it was rented.

I also note that Phil Hogan has not declared for 2011, (Ethics in Publin Office) that he has an interest in an apartment in Portugal. So where does that leave him as regards registering for anything?. Does he also own an apartment on Haddingdon Road, Dublin, and if so, why is that not registered as an interest as well?

[Hijpo]

Originally Posted by NIMAN

And finally, it is now a law, just like the TV licence. Why is there not the same social disobedience to that?

I think the fact that people dont mind paying the TV Licence, USC etc is evidence that people will pay for services they see as genuine and fair and that they arnt just out to make things difficult for government and be disobedient law breakers. The people have a strong feeling against this tax as it is lied about constantly and threats make people even more reluctant.

[quinnie123ie]

Are the councils going to take over the maintenance on apartment complexes all over Ireland or do those poor suckers have to now pay 2 service charges? cant wait to see the back of FG.

I am not an apartment owner by the way, thank god!

[flutered]

Originally Posted by dudara

To me, this is an example of the mé-féin attitude that is partially to blame for the ruined economy of this country. Non-payers of the HC need to find some social responsibility and realise that paying taxes is part of the road to recovery. It's part of being a socially aware and responsible citizen.

You may not like paying taxes, but surely you have the brains to see the benefits in paying taxes.

i paid tax at over 60%, i worked seven days each week, i did not drink, yet i got into trouble with my morgage, i have paid taxes since i was 14, yes i told lies to get a job, i am now in the autumn of my years, i am sick of being shafted to some johney come latelys advantage, enough is enough, the only advantage that i have is there is no title to my house, so in the event of my death it will just go to a family member, no lawyers or goverment agency to collect anything, btw it will not be part of my will.

[Lantus]

Originally Posted by dudara

To me, this is an example of the mé-féin attitude that is partially to blame for the ruined economy of this country. Non-payers of the HC need to find some social responsibility and realise that paying taxes is part of the road to recovery. It's part of being a socially aware and responsible citizen.

You may not like paying taxes, but surely you have the brains to see the benefits in paying taxes.

Where is the social responsibility when a government saddles it's population for the massive and crippling debts of a banking sector (and construction secor) that was achieved through greed and stupidity.

To just shift the 'responsibility' onto ordinary people and guilt them into thinking it is now their fault and problem to solve is immoral and wrong. It also totally negates the real criminals of any blame who really perpetrated this mess.

FG and the current 'leader' (I use that term loosley as people who cannot speak a sentence without contunual errms and arrs arn't really leader material) are a joke. Enda has achieved his position through 'years of service' and a patient attitude not because he's right for the job.

His views are basically the same as FF and the rest as he learned his trade over the past several decades along side peers from every party through an era of corruption and bribes and thre status quo. The believe that TD's deserve special treatment and should be hugley rewarded financially is something he believes in as much as Bertie. He's just not as stupid to say it out loud.

He doesn't really want change because he can neither imagine it or envisage it. He's rooted into the old way of thinking that dogs our entire politicla system. He's entrenched in a party system that doesn't allow any real deviation from the status quo.

[username123]

Originally Posted by MYOB

They also have the Land Registry which is a far more detailed and accurate list of who owns what than anything else.

The land registry is a registry of land, not housing stock. There is no way to compile a comprehensive database off this information when in some cases data goes back to pre-electronic times, with holes in data etc...

Dont you think they would have used this if it was feasible? The fact that they used self declaration says a lot in itself.

For the OP - Im not sure that an elderly lady living in a 5 bedroom house on land alone is a good idea though. Surely the upkeep and maintenance is going to become too much at some point? Surely it would be a lot easier physically if she moved into a smaller place? I see it with my father in law, he is physically not able to keep his house clean and has trouble on the stairs, yet suggestions of moving into a smaller more manageable place are met with disgust. I dont get it myself.

[Zamboni]

Originally Posted by username123

The land registry is a registry of land, not housing stock. There is no way to compile a comprehensive database off this information when in some cases data goes back to pre-electronic times, with holes in data etc...

Dont you think they would have used this if it was feasible? The fact that they used self declaration says a lot in itself.

This is off topic but it is an interesting point the whole household charge issue has inadvertently brought to light.
Government and semi-state body records are absolutely abysmal.
It is a shocking indictment of the civil service.
There is no joined up thinking at all.
As it stands, I currently have three votes in three separate districts due to incompetence in council managed electoral registers.

[fergiesfolly]

I honestly don't get the mentality of some posters on this thread.
Firstly. I don't think its fair to ask any pensioner, who have spent a lifetime paying taxes(many at a higher rate than we do) to pay taxes on a house that was bought and paid for decades ago.They've paid their dues, probably budgeted their savings and pension to see them through their remaining years. The least the state owes them is to be left alone to get on with it, without the worry of an unforseen outgoing on a fixed income.
My parents paid(against my advice) and will pay next year too. Even though they might have to cut back on other neccessities to do so. And at their time of life, thats not on.
Secondly.
This government are broke and rather than grow a pair and tell the banks and EU to sod off, they've decided to invent "fair" taxes to levy on the one group in this mess with no real power...the people.
If property tax was a fair and equitable system, why wasn't levied at the height of the boom when we were all, supposedly, rolling in cash.
The citizens of this country are on their stomachs and this government happy to push their faces in to the mud, so long as they can save face with our European neighbours.
And neighbour is probably the wrong word. You wouldn't screw over a neighbour, the way the EU(germany, france) are willing to screw us