Why must Irish be compulsory??

RadioClash · 05-04-2012 2:34pm

Peanut wrote: »

Cultures change over time, Irish was not the language of the previous inhabitants of this island either.

I'd be really interested to hear where you got this startling nugget.

Fuinseog · 05-04-2012 2:42pm

The language probably came here with the Celts. what language did the Fir Bolg speak?

Peanut · 05-04-2012 2:50pm

RadioClash wrote: »

I'd be really interested to hear where you got this startling nugget.

If you're not being sarcastic, do you think there was a Gaelic/Celtic language spoken here before the Celts arrived?

For what it's worth,

The hypothesis that the native Late Bronze Age inhabitants gradually absorbed Celtic influences has since been supported by some recent genetic research.

http://www.familytreedna.com/pdf/capelli2_CB.pdf

If you are being sarcastic, of course the transience of culture goes without saying, however a romanticised idea of "Erin go Bragh" should not be the basis for planning an education system.

RadioClash · 05-04-2012 3:06pm

Peanut wrote: »

If you're not being sarcastic, do you think there was a Gaelic/Celtic language spoken here before the Celts arrived?

For what it's worth,
http://www.familytreedna.com/pdf/capelli2_CB.pdf

If you are being sarcastic, of course the transience of culture goes without saying, however a romanticised idea of "Erin go Bragh" should not be the basis for planning an education system.

The reason I said it is because there is much doubt cast upon the Celtic origins theory. See Bob Quinn's book and series the Atlantean trilogy, and also Trinity genetic research from around the same which gave credence to that contrary view. One cannot at all say firmly the Celts as a migratory phenomenon actually were significant in bringing what we know as Irish culture/language etc. to Ireland.

Erin go bragh aside, I hope people wouldn't be so flippant as to dismiss Irish on the basis that might have been something there before it. It's still of major cultural significance even if that was to be definitively proven.

rainbowtrout · 05-04-2012 3:37pm

Peanut wrote: »

And I think this is the reason for the low takeup, a quick look at the syllabus shows it's construcion studies heritage. Not really what would be suitable for a more general comp. sci subject.

I read that a few days. It's utter craziness at this time to be dropping subjects like physics and economics while comp. Irish remains untouched due to priveleged status.

Cultures change over time, Irish was not the language of the previous inhabitants of this island either.

True. But there wasn't such a formalised education system back them either and well history, which is not seen as all that important by some posters , would indicate why we speak English today

Peanut · 05-04-2012 3:37pm

RadioClash wrote: »

Erin go bragh aside, I hope people wouldn't be so flippant as to dismiss Irish on the basis that might have been something there before it. It's still of major cultural significance even if that was to be definitively proven.

Absolutely, however what I was questioning was the idea of it being "our" language as an argument to support the current system. You can also say that Irish dancing etc. is part of "our" culture, but for most people in their day to day lives, it's not.

Similarly with Gaelic, it's not really "my" language in any meaningful sense, then again, I believe cultural identity consists of something broader other than just what language a person speaks.

Others may disagree with that definition I know, but in practical terms Irish as a language (as it stands) simply does not have that much resonance with the majority of the population, otherwise we would surely see more fruitful results in terms of the number of fluent speakers.

LordSutch · 05-04-2012 8:25pm

Well said Peanut, however it will be very hard to brake the circle, with Irish parents claiming (possibly through a false sense of patriotism)? that they want their children to learn Irish, while at the same time knowing full well that most children will never be able to converse in Irish to any great degree! Then you have the current Taoiseach who hinted at making Irish a non compulsory subject for Leaving Cert students, only to have everybody up in arms at his un patriotic ideas! So its a circle that will be very hard to brake, my kids will go through school, and I know that they will never speak the language, we don't speak Irish at home, none of our family speak Irish either, but this is Ireland, so we must all "learn" Irish. wink wink, or at least least we must attend Irish classes for our whole school lives, spending hundreds of wasted hours, because we're Irish :cool:

I wish Irish was a non mandatory language, at least for the Leaving Cert, that way those who really wanted to study another language, eg French, German, Spanish, could do so, without having to go through the Irish grinder.

GaryIrv93 · 05-04-2012 10:03pm

rainbowtrout wrote: »

Home schooling is that direction ---->

You are not obliged to attend secondary school, or primary school for that matter. If you choose to do so, you are obliged to attend Irish classes, unless you have an exemption. If you don't like the policies of the school you enrolled in and agreed to when you enrolled, let your parents educate you at home.

Irish is our own language by the way, English is not our own language, but we have adopted it as one of the official languages of this country.

Actually I'm pretty sure secondary students are legally required (unless being home schooled) to attend school until after the JC? Correct me if I'm wrong. Otherwise it's sanctions and fines against the parents of the student.

gerarda · 05-04-2012 10:10pm

I haven't scanned every post but would this be the cause of young people losing interest in Irish? Up until the juniour cert I actually didn't mind it but then we were subjected to this:

41ZATFWH3GL._SS500_.jpg

GaryIrv93 · 05-04-2012 10:22pm

RadioClash wrote: »

I see you're having a Lord of the Flies moment there. No one is taking away your right to speak English or any other language.

Education policy isn't dictated or indeed changed by secondary students throwing a tantrum en masse. What happens if you get your way and then some bright spark thinks he's having his human rights infringed by having to do Math's?

And for the record most Irish Uni's (all?) require you to have done English, Irish or another language as well as Math's in the Leaving to matriculate (even if you want to do a basket weaving course). Are your human rights being infringed by this force feeding, this disgraceful compulsion?

Are you going to go banging on your lecturers door in Uni because you don't like the content of some compulsory modules you have to do?

Stick it to the man.

What I mean is in school you have to ''learn'' Irish, despite the fact that I nor the majority of other students don't need nor want it. I didn't say ''take away my right to speak English or any other language'', I said that I'm unjustly being forced to another language that I don't see relevant to me - Irish.

In a sense though Maths and English have every right to be compulsory, whether we like it or not. Very few people (if any) would agree to get rid of Maths and English as compulsory subjects. They're essential. I don't like either of these subjects, but can understand that I will need both in my future working life, no matter what my job will be. Irish on the other hand, is forced on you unless you have a learning disability or are from a foreign country - and for what reason I've no idea. It's disgraceful, yes, to force Irish in particular on students who don't and will never need Irish. A waste of money and waste of both the student's and teacher's time. Not saying that people who would want to learn it be stripped of their right to learn it, but everyone else should be allowed to decide what language other than English they want to learn. It's not the government's LC after all - it's yours. Why should they care what languages you learn in school? They should have no right whatsoever to decide.

Fuinseog · 05-04-2012 10:43pm

gerarda wrote: »

I haven't scanned every post but would this be the cause of young people losing interest in Irish? Up until the juniour cert I actually didn't mind it but then we were subjected to this:

Peig has not been on the curriculum since about 1996, definitely not this century. I have never read the book and have no intention of doing so either. oh wait you read it in English. what English novel were you subjected to? Jane Austen is hardly stirring stuff.

Fuinseog · 05-04-2012 10:52pm

GaryIrv93 wrote: »

What I mean is in school you have to ''learn'' Irish, despite the fact that I nor the majority of other students don't need nor want it. I didn't say ''take away my right to speak English or any other language'', I said that I'm unjustly being forced to another language that I don't see relevant to me - Irish.

In a sense though Maths and English have every right to be compulsory, whether we like it or not. Very few people (if any) would agree to get rid of Maths and English as compulsory subjects. They're essential. I don't like either of these subjects, but can understand that I will need both in my future working life, no matter what my job will be. Irish on the other hand, is forced on you unless you have a learning disability or are from a foreign country - and for what reason I've no idea. It's disgraceful, yes, to force Irish in particular on students who don't and will never need Irish. A waste of money and waste of both the student's and teacher's time. Not saying that people who would want to learn it be stripped of their right to learn it, but everyone else should be allowed to decide what language other than English they want to learn. It's not the government's LC after all - it's yours. Why should they care what languages you learn in school? They should have no right whatsoever to decide.

how is maths essential? you learn enough maths at primary level to see you through life. basic adding, subtracting , multiplying. how often does the average citizen use anything else from the field of maths.

as for English ditto. the way English is taught is a joke. very few kids understand anything of grammar and even adults in this country cannot distinguish between I have seen and I saw.

irish is part of our cultural hertitage or so those troublemakers in 1916 would argue. it suggests we are not just another part of the UK. if the rugby team sang amhran na bhfiann instead of some meek folksong they might actually win something.

rainbowtrout · 05-04-2012 10:54pm

GaryIrv93 wrote: »

Actually I'm pretty sure secondary students are legally required (unless being home schooled) to attend school until after the JC? Correct me if I'm wrong. Otherwise it's sanctions and fines against the parents of the student.

No, they are not. It's written into the constitution that the parent is the primary educator of the child. If a parent chooses not to send their child to school and home schools instead I think they get a visit from the Dept of Education to outline how they plan on doing that and after that it's up to them. It applies to primary and secondary.

There is a lad in first year in the school I teach in who was home schooled for all his primary school years, it was his decision to go to secondary school to see what it was like. It's a whole new experience for him.

Realistically most parents send their children to school out of convenience and the fact that they mightn't be able to provide home schooling themselves. That and our education and work system is geared towards those who have academic qualifications. How do you get to college? Leaving Cert. Harder to achieve that when educated outside the system. Knock on effect perhaps for job prospects etc.

GaryIrv93 · 05-04-2012 11:36pm

Fuinseog wrote: »

how is maths essential? you learn enough maths at primary level to see you through life. basic adding, subtracting , multiplying. how often does the average citizen use anything else from the field of maths.

as for English ditto. the way English is taught is a joke. very few kids understand anything of grammar and even adults in this country cannot distinguish between I have seen and I saw.

irish is part of our cultural hertitage or so those troublemakers in 1916 would argue. it suggests we are not just another part of the UK. if the rugby team sang amhran na bhfiann instead of some meek folksong they might actually win something.

Depends on what job you go ito. Someone doing HL Maths in school might need it let's say for going into engineering, or a job which involves complex mathematics. If not, it could still turn out to be a handy skill, knowing HL Maths, or another example: A student doing honours maths would find a parent who also did honours maths really handy for homework help or grinds. :rolleyes:

I agree with the English argument - I see no point in the comparative part of it, although someone who wanted to study Literature might find the poetry handy enough, or someone who wanted to be an author... doing English has actually improved my essay writing skills. Wasn't great at it in primary school, but improved in it greatly doing in in secondary. Nice to be able to write a good story that classmates and teachers will enjoy. Seconday school english needs to be dumbed down a good bit though. More emphasis needs to be put on the basics, and less on the Shakespeare,

Cultural Heritage - what about the US, or Australia for example? They speak English as their primary language - they're not part of the UK.

WillieFlynn · 06-04-2012 12:22am

laoch na mona wrote: »

its a vital part of our culture and the state is trying to preserve it

For good or bad, the Irish language isn't a big part of Irish peoples culture. If it was more people would use it outside of a educational setting, than Polish.

In dublin I notice more people using Irish Sign Lanuage, French, Spanish, Chinese, and many other languages, than I hear Irish.

Other Irish languages such as Irish Sign Languages, Cant / Gammon are just as much part of Irish culture, but yet are not even a subject (let alone compulsory) for the normal leaving cert*.

* ISL is an applied leaving cert subject.

rainbowtrout · 06-04-2012 12:29am

GaryIrv93 wrote: »

Depends on what job you go ito. Someone doing HL Maths in school might need it let's say for going into engineering, or a job which involves complex mathematics. If not, it could still turn out to be a handy skill, knowing HL Maths, or another example: A student doing honours maths would find a parent who also did honours maths really handy for homework help or grinds. :rolleyes:

I agree with the English argument - I see no point in the comparative part of it, although someone who wanted to study Literature might find the poetry handy enough, or someone who wanted to be an author... doing English has actually improved my essay writing skills. Wasn't great at it in primary school, but improved in it greatly doing in in secondary. Nice to be able to write a good story that classmates and teachers will enjoy. Seconday school english needs to be dumbed down a good bit though. Most of it is pointless.

Cultural Heritage - what about the US, or Australia for example? They speak English as their primary language - they're not part of the UK.

Dumbed down? Literacy among students is bad enough as it is without dumbing it down further. I come across students every day who do not know the meaning of basic words.

A couple of years ago I had a couple of students in my LC class (not English) who liked to ask questions that had nothing to do with the subject to waste time. So in the end I used to say 'If the question isn't relevant to the class, don't ask'. It became a bit of a running joke, where a student would get in before I had opened my mouth to say quickly 'It's relevant..... and my question is.... '

One day a student put his hand up and said 'Miss, you keep saying our questions have to be relevant, what does relevant mean?' :eek::eek::eek:

And at least half the class chimed in with 'ya, what does relevant mean?' Couldn't believe I had a group of leaving certs sitting in front of me asking this question, and couldn't believe they had sat in front of me for months before they thought to ask. No, I'm definitely not in favour of dumbing down.

You mention English being handy for writing stories, it's also necessary for writing letters, reports, and all of your college assignments. And your college assignments are expected to be literate.

I teach Post Leaving Certs as well as second level and a compulsory module for all Post Leaving Cert courses is a module in communications. Some of the stuff taught on communications might seem fairly basic, because it includes things like writing reports, letters, essays, CVs etc, but the lack of ability in these areas is shocking. Students hand up letters and think nothing of not starting sentences with capital letters, grammar and spelling mistakes everywhere and generally poor sentence structure. I often don't point out the errors straight away but ask the student if they would be happy to send their letter to a customer and almost all of them say yes, and I wonder, because they've all seen letters addressed properly, using capital letters for names etc, and wonder how they think it's acceptable to write a letter in the same manner as they write a text message or a facebook status.

It's not unusual to be handed up a full letter without a single capital letter in it.

Canard · 06-04-2012 12:41am

rainbowtrout wrote: »

Dumbed down? Literacy among students is bad enough as it is without dumbing it down further. I come across students every day who do not know the meaning of basic words.

Thats the problem though - I think what the poster meant was to dumb it down and teach those basics. Then again, I have to disagree because it's not the job of a LC English teacher to do that sort of thing. It's a primary school teacher's job or JC at most, but I know I'm not the only one who didn't need basic spelling, punctuation and grammar drilled into me so it could just be down to ignorance. It's around us every day and in letters etc as you said, its crazy how wrong people get the most basic things.

Namlub · 06-04-2012 12:48am

It does reflect pretty badly on our education system that there are LC students who still haven't mastered basic grammar and spelling in English, but that doesn't mean the subject needs to be dumbed down to meet the standards of the lowest common denominator, especially at Higher Level.

randylonghorn · 06-04-2012 1:12am

Namlub wrote: »

It does reflect pretty badly on our education system that there are LC students who still haven't mastered basic grammar and spelling in English, but that doesn't mean the subject needs to be dumbed down to meet the standards of the lowest common denominator, especially at Higher Level.

Bless you for not writing "grammer" ... but we may be straying slightly off-topic here!

GaryIrv93 · 06-04-2012 1:40am

rainbowtrout wrote: »

Dumbed down? Literacy among students is bad enough as it is without dumbing it down further. I come across students every day who do not know the meaning of basic words.

A couple of years ago I had a couple of students in my LC class (not English) who liked to ask questions that had nothing to do with the subject to waste time. So in the end I used to say 'If the question isn't relevant to the class, don't ask'. It became a bit of a running joke, where a student would get in before I had opened my mouth to say quickly 'It's relevant..... and my question is.... '

One day a student put his hand up and said 'Miss, you keep saying our questions have to be relevant, what does relevant mean?' :eek::eek::eek:

And at least half the class chimed in with 'ya, what does relevant mean?' Couldn't believe I had a group of leaving certs sitting in front of me asking this question, and couldn't believe they had sat in front of me for months before they thought to ask. No, I'm definitely not in favour of dumbing down.

You mention English being handy for writing stories, it's also necessary for writing letters, reports, and all of your college assignments. And your college assignments are expected to be literate.

I teach Post Leaving Certs as well as second level and a compulsory module for all Post Leaving Cert courses is a module in communications. Some of the stuff taught on communications might seem fairly basic, because it includes things like writing reports, letters, essays, CVs etc, but the lack of ability in these areas is shocking. Students hand up letters and think nothing of not starting sentences with capital letters, grammar and spelling mistakes everywhere and generally poor sentence structure. I often don't point out the errors straight away but ask the student if they would be happy to send their letter to a customer and almost all of them say yes, and I wonder, because they've all seen letters addressed properly, using capital letters for names etc, and wonder how they think it's acceptable to write a letter in the same manner as they write a text message or a facebook status.

It's not unusual to be handed up a full letter without a single capital letter in it.

Dumbed down as in less emphasis on Shakespeare, comparative, plays... - no-one's going to care whether or not you know about Shakespeare in your later life. More emphasis on the basic stuff, such as in spelling, grammar, structure, writing letters, reports, CVs, whatever else you want to put in. I don't think there was enough of that kind of stuff taught in English. That could affect future skills relevant to writing letters etc.

I'm in the LC at the moment, there's a good few who can't spell properly or just aren't bothered to put in capital letters, full stops... I've seen and heard teachers repeatedly inform them of these faults. Some just don't grasp it no matter what.

One reason could be because they're just lazy/don't care, another one could be that they weren't taught enough of the basics, like spelling properly or including capital letters, etc. Because most of them would use phones or have Facebook, that might be a factor too - they could have been so used to using ''text language''. You might've just ended up teaching that kind of class however. You could get good classes, or you could get bad classes. Were many of them dyslexic or had learning difficulties?

jumpguy · 06-04-2012 1:50am

rainbowtrout wrote: »

Dumbed down? Literacy among students is bad enough as it is without dumbing it down further. I come across students every day who do not know the meaning of basic words.

A couple of years ago I had a couple of students in my LC class (not English) who liked to ask questions that had nothing to do with the subject to waste time. So in the end I used to say 'If the question isn't relevant to the class, don't ask'. It became a bit of a running joke, where a student would get in before I had opened my mouth to say quickly 'It's relevant..... and my question is.... '

One day a student put his hand up and said 'Miss, you keep saying our questions have to be relevant, what does relevant mean?' :eek::eek::eek:

And at least half the class chimed in with 'ya, what does relevant mean?' Couldn't believe I had a group of leaving certs sitting in front of me asking this question, and couldn't believe they had sat in front of me for months before they thought to ask. No, I'm definitely not in favour of dumbing down.

Ahh, you sure they weren't taking the piss asking that? :P There's irony in asking a relevant question - the question being what does relevant mean.

rainbowtrout · 06-04-2012 1:58am

GaryIrv93 wrote: »

Dumbed down as in less emphasis on Shakespeare, comparative, plays... - no-one's going to care whether or not you know about Shakespeare in your later life. More emphasis on the basic stuff, such as in spelling, grammar, structure, writing letters, reports, CVs, whatever else you want to put in. I don't think there was enough of that kind of stuff taught in English. That could affect future skills relevant to writing letters etc.

I'm in the LC at the moment, there's a good few who can't spell properly or just aren't bothered to put in capital letters, full stops... I've seen and heard teachers repeatedly inform them of these faults. Some just don't grasp it no matter what. One reason could be because they're just lazy/don't care, another one could be that they weren't taught enough of the basics, like spelling properly or including capital letters, etc. Because most of them would use phones or have Facebook, that might be a factor too - they could have been so used to using ''text language''. You might've just ended up teaching that kind of class however. You could get good classes, or you could get bad classes. Were many of them dyslexic or had learning difficulties?

I disagree. This stuff is taught in primary school, or at least it was when I was in primary school. After almost 13 years in the education system, it should not be the responsibility of the Leaving Cert English teacher to teach basic grammar and spelling. We should all be capable of that at the age of 17/18. This thread started out as 'Irish is a waste of time, it's rubbish, what's the point of learning Irish prose and poetry if we can't even speak the language, etc.' and to a certain extent I understand that. The vast majority of people never speak Irish in their daily lives outside Irish class. But they do speak English as their first language so I don't think it's unreasonable to expect students that are almost adults to have more than a basic grasp of the language by Leaving Cert.

That and something I mentioned earlier on in the thread, if a subject is dumbed down to the basics then students will learn less than the basics, because the majority of students take short cuts and only learn what is absolutely necessary to get them through. We wouldn't challenge any students if we didn't provide them with something a bit more stimulating than basic grammar and spelling exercises.

rainbowtrout · 06-04-2012 2:04am

jumpguy wrote: »

Ahh, you sure they weren't taking the piss asking that? :P There's irony in asking a relevant question - the question being what does relevant mean.

No, I'm deadly serious. Just one of the many things I hear on a daily basis that I'm amazed by.

Other things I've heard this year include:

'Periwinkles are not real miss, you're making that up' (had to show them a photo on google images)
'Hedgehogs aren't real, they're mythical creatures. They are put on road signs to make drivers slow down' (I was particularly shocked by that one, every primary school in the country does nature studies of some sort)

Not strictly educational, but was amazed to find that most of my fifth years had never heard of E.T, let alone seen the film. Now I know I'm getting old.
A couple of years ago, when explaining to a bunch of LC Ag Science students how ewes are brought into heat by placing hormone soaked sponges into their vaginas for a fortnight before they are removed and left out with the ram, a student put his hand up and asked 'sure, how does the ewe go to the toilet with the sponge in her vagina for a fortnight?' Cue look of disbelief on my face as I explained that the vagina and urinary system were completely separate in females. Pretty much every lad in the class accused me of being a liar. Then they turned to the girls to see if I was telling the truth. Cue another picture on google images.

jumpguy · 06-04-2012 2:11am

By "they" I meant the students! :P

I haven't seen E.T...

RadioClash · 06-04-2012 2:21am

GaryIrv93 wrote: »

What I mean is in school you have to ''learn'' Irish, despite the fact that I nor the majority of other students don't need nor want it. I didn't say ''take away my right to speak English or any other language'', I said that I'm unjustly being forced to another language that I don't see relevant to me - Irish.

Unjust :rolleyes:. Perspective please. Once again, the world and curriculum planning doesn't revolve around your wants. Your 'needs' and 'wants' aren't what informs and guides policy, that's why you're in school. If every student followed their needs and wants, there would be xbox and keepy-uppy's on the Leaving.

GaryIrv93 wrote: »

In a sense though Maths and English have every right to be compulsory, whether we like it or not. Very few people (if any) would agree to get rid of Maths and English as compulsory subjects. They're essential. I don't like either of these subjects, but can understand that I will need both in my future working life, no matter what my job will be. Irish on the other hand, is forced on you unless you have a learning disability or are from a foreign country - and for what reason I've no idea. It's disgraceful, yes, to force Irish in particular on students who don't and will never need Irish. A waste of money and waste of both the student's and teacher's time. Not saying that people who would want to learn it be stripped of their right to learn it, but everyone else should be allowed to decide what language other than English they want to learn. It's not the government's LC after all - it's yours. Why should they care what languages you learn in school? They should have no right whatsoever to decide.

You don't need it because you've decided you won't need it, stomping your feet at a modest compulsion. One could say the same thing for any of the compulsory subjects. I can't remember using any of the mathematical formula I learned in school after LC, does this mean it was useless? Should I have taken a march to the Dail? Shakespeare?? What was going on there, he's dead ages and no one talks like that, USELESS! A language other than Irish to matriculate to Uni??? Absurd! I don't WANT to live in France, That's USELESS! Six subjects on the Leaving?? USELESS! I only WANT to do three of these. You get my drift?

Oh, and 'they' have every right to decide, and you have next to none. What with 'they' being the government and all.

GaryIrv93 · 06-04-2012 2:50am

+ these are just opinions on the matter, Bit of arguing going on as well,

randylonghorn · 06-04-2012 4:30pm

rainbowtrout wrote: »

A couple of years ago, when explaining to a bunch of LC Ag Science students how ewes are brought into heat by placing hormone soaked sponges into their vaginas for a fortnight before they are removed and left out with the ram, a student put his hand up and asked 'sure, how does the ewe go to the toilet with the sponge in her vagina for a fortnight?' Cue look of disbelief on my face as I explained that the vagina and urinary system were completely separate in females. Pretty much every lad in the class accused me of being a liar. Then they turned to the girls to see if I was telling the truth.

Annnd another major lack in our educational system right there ... basic sex ed. And yes, the parents should be be doing it, but half the time they don't because they're too embarrassed (this being uptight Ireland!) and/or they presume that "sure, they get it all on the internet these days!"

Well, teenage lads in particular do tend to pick up things from the internet, sure enough ... but given the type of source material, it's often lacking in certain details, engenders some unrealistic impressions of what they should expect from an inexperienced girl their own age, and indeed can spark off an inferiority complex!!

rainbowtrout wrote: »

Cue another picture on google images.

I'm guessing you mean diagram, but don't spoil it ... the clip currently playing in my brain is frigging hilarious!! :pac:

DepoProvera · 06-04-2012 7:50pm

RadioClash wrote: »

You don't need it because you've decided you won't need it, stomping your feet at a modest compulsion. One could say the same thing for any of the compulsory subjects. I can't remember using any of the mathematical formula I learned in school after LC, does this mean it was useless? Should I have taken a march to the Dail? Shakespeare?? What was going on there, he's dead ages and no one talks like that, USELESS! A language other than Irish to matriculate to Uni??? Absurd! I don't WANT to live in France, That's USELESS! Six subjects on the Leaving?? USELESS! I only WANT to do three of these. You get my drift?

I know you're being facetious, but your points are invalid. We all agree that any type of learning is beneficial, and of course learning Irish is also, but should we not direct our finite resources towards something that will actually have some further use? Maths makes up the basis of much of the world around us; appreciation and analysis of literature develops and expands the mind(ughh I sound like an advert); Spanish and French are spoken all over the world.

Irish? Well, there are libraries full of rich Irish literature! Oh wait... There aren't any. Well at least I can watch my Irish channels now! Oh wait... TG4 is showing some leathery, old man painting again or dubbing some American cartoon. At least I can finally talk to my grandparents in Irish! Oh wait they died years ago, as the language should have done too.

Just let those who want to study it, do so.

RadioClash wrote: »

Oh, and 'they' have every right to decide, and you have next to none. What with 'they' being the government and all.

That's a rather scary attitude to have. 'They' are meant to reflect and act upon society's will and needs, not perpetuate some forced learning of an archaic, useless language.

Seems to be a lot of the 'silly young people, still complaining about having to a bit of learning' type attitude. Nope, Irish is just objectively not of any use. (I'm exempt anyways booyah)

WillieFlynn · 06-04-2012 7:56pm

GaryIrv93 wrote: »

I'm in the LC at the moment, there's a good few who can't spell properly or just aren't bothered to put in capital letters, full stops... I've seen and heard teachers repeatedly inform them of these faults. Some just don't grasp it no matter what. One reason could be because they're just lazy/don't care, another one could be that they weren't taught enough of the basics, like spelling properly or including capital letters, etc.
.......
Were many of them dyslexic or had learning difficulties?

My mother said that I was fine at learning English spellings, until written Irish was introduced (possibly too early).

I can say from experience in school it wasn't a matter of being lazy or not caring, I found it very frustrating not being able to spell consistently, no matter how hard I tried.

Also English is a much harder language learn the spellings of when compared to Spanish, which is more phonetic and has less exceptions and irregular spellings.

Anyway just as well computers have spell checkers........

RadioClash · 07-04-2012 2:42am

We all agree that any type of learning is beneficial, and of course learning Irish is also.

Contradiction alert...

not perpetuate some forced learning of an archaic, useless language.

Contradiction 2.0....

Seems to be a lot of the 'silly young people, still complaining about having to a bit of learning' type attitude. Nope, Irish is just objectively not of any use. (I'm exempt anyways booyah)

Make thy mind up.

Why must Irish be compulsory??

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