Life outside BR

eoferrall · 20-08-2011 6:07pm #1

so thought I would start a thread away from the rugby forum.

Thoughts on O'leary today? surely with that pass to trin duc to make it 26-8 and game over is that him booking a holiday in ireland for sept?

Healy off injured, is that a serious dent in our chances in this RWC?

Disaster of a match tbh.

seanand · 20-08-2011 6:34pm

great try pity we were **** the rest of the match, no imagination i think they should build for four years time

eoferrall · 20-08-2011 6:50pm

seanand wrote: »

great try pity we were **** the rest of the match, no imagination i think they should build for four years time

It'll be a long september on these performances

johnnysmack · 20-08-2011 8:43pm

we nearly always play badly against france. they're our bogey team, besides these are still just friendlies, if we lose to usa in few weeks then il be worried!

Gelio · 20-08-2011 8:49pm

Just home now. Healy was incredible, very worried about his "leg"? Best surprised me to be fair to the man. DOC and Jones were meh imo but awful to see Jones go off like that all the same. TOL was actually decent when things were going well and just a few major brain farts wrecked his game (the blind pass and a few more dodgy ones). I have to say I like when ROG is 10 and Sexton is 12, could it be a solution to our incoming problem at 12? Sexton is a good ball carrier and a great distributor so maybe some potential there. Trimble was great again really ran hard when he got it, although a lot of that running was sideways. Back row was great mostly, SOB is just an honor to watch when he gets a bit of space. And Earls, I never liked his style of play, far to showy for my liking and I found myself screaming at him a number of times today. Wouldn't be on the 22 if i was a selector. I would have liked to have seen Flannery, McCarthy and Fitzgerald on much earlier. I mean half time. But we all know DK doesn't make tactical changes until its far too late. Overall the game was ours to win. Our first 20 minutes were good enough to win a world cup, the next 40 were awful and the final 20 (when all the changes were made) things started going right again. One thing we have definitely learnt is that we are capable of anything as long as we don't shoot ourselves in the foot (or allow certain players to do it for us). The question is now will the players and more importantly DK learn from these mistakes to make a better team or will we just expect things to change by themselves. Just looking at the scoring sequence was 8 for us (and should have been more) 26 for them, and 14 for us. Very patchy. Overall though I do think this was positive for us. Hopefully we will look back and say we learnt so much from that match.

johnnysmack · 20-08-2011 9:24pm

Well said jeff. Good objective piece.

spurskiely · 20-08-2011 9:41pm

Hopefully Kidney can sort it out b4 world cup starts.???????

Deisesun · 20-08-2011 9:49pm

Looks like Geordan Murphy might be coming back in to cover Jones, Darcy was quite first game back, Earls is better at full back. Kidney could have shaken it up give Mc Carthy a run and a few others.

TheJims · 22-08-2011 1:33pm

The Debate is in FULL swing in the rugby forum, thought id throw this here, see what u guys thought!

Declan Kidney has announced his 30-man squad charged with the goal of winning the World Cup but there is no place for Tomas O'Leary or Luke Fitzgerald.
Conor Murray has been included in Ireland's squad for the World Cup at the expense of Munster team-mate O'Leary. Murray, who made his only Test appearance against France in Bordeaux nine days ago, travels with fellow scrum-halves Eoin Reddan and Isaac Boss.
O'Leary was thought to be coach Kidney's first choice in the position but has paid the price for his poor display in Saturday's 26-22 defeat by Les Bleus. Leicester fullback Geordan Murphy travels to New Zealand, as does Leinster utility back Fergus McFadden, but there is no place among the 30 for British & Irish Lions winger Fitzgerald.

Ireland Squad:
Forwards: R Best (Ulster), T Buckley (Sale), T Court (Ulster), S Cronin (Leinster), L Cullen (Leinster), S Ferris (Ulster), J Flannery (Munster), C Healy (Leinster), J Heaslip (Leinster), D Leamy (Munster) S O'Brien (Leinster), D O'Callaghan (Munster), P O'Connell (Munster), M Ross (Leinster), D Ryan (Munster), D Wallace (Munster)
Backs: I Boss (Leinster), T Bowe (Ospreys), G D'Arcy (Leinster), K Earls (Munster), R Kearney (Leinster), F McFadden (Leinster), G Murphy (Leicester), C Murray (Munster), B O'Driscoll (Leinster, capt), R O'Gara (Munster), E Reddan (Leinster), J Sexton (Leinster), A Trimble (Ulster), P Wallace (Ulster)

Fitzgerald had a very poor six months for Ireland and Leinster so iv no beef with leaving him out. no issues with O Leary also//

seanand · 22-08-2011 1:53pm

i would of brought fitzgerald instead of darcy, darcy is past it hasnt done anything in the last two years, great defender but we struggle to make line breaks

eoferrall · 22-08-2011 2:01pm

seanand wrote: »

i would of brought fitzgerald instead of darcy, darcy is past it hasnt done anything in the last two years, great defender but we struggle to make line breaks

That's all well and good, but who would you play starting in 12? fitz has played there before... but there's a reason he didn't play again there. you'd be starting with wallace? disaster. only other option is mcfadden, who I would be happy with, but D'arcy would always be on my squad. solid player rarely makes mistakes.

I don't think we play the style for a breaking 12, if ball is slow either darcy takes it straight up or SOB etc is there to, think we play more to the outside backs.. rightly or wrongly!

D'arcy is one I wouldn't question, infact I am very happy with that squad choice given the players we could pick from.

TheJims · 22-08-2011 2:03pm

The only way that would work is if you bring drico into 12 with maybe Bowe @ 13?? earls doesnt cut it at 13 for me.. trimble cud easily cover 14, but i dont see where you'd put fitzy..

centres r too big a problem this season for us, if rog is playing 10 we need a really solid defender @ 12..

I dont see anyother combo in the centres besides darcy n drico working for us against the big teams.

seanand · 22-08-2011 2:16pm

wallace is first choice for me hes the creator for the outside backs id give him more of a few range to try things

Gelio · 22-08-2011 4:04pm

The sooner we mess up this wc and dk gets fired the better. I'm sick of the man and he is messing up this teams potential.

eoferrall · 22-08-2011 4:12pm

what ever you think about some of the calls and performances over the last couple of seasons, actually wish we do badly?!:eek:

Disagree with that sentiment entirely.

satory · 22-08-2011 5:00pm

I just wish that the IRFU would learn from their mistakes and NOT give out contract extensions before a World Cup..

They got stung badly 4 years ago, and what have they this time around? but given DK an extension

Gelio · 22-08-2011 5:02pm

eoferrall wrote: »

what ever you think about some of the calls and performances over the last couple of seasons, actually wish we do badly?!:eek:

Disagree with that sentiment entirely.

Well the fact is four years ago the IRFU extended EOS contract just before the world cup. It was a disaster. He was fired and I'm sure it cost us much more than it should have. This world cup roles around and a manager that hasn't been reaching the standards this team can achieve gets an extension on the contract again. Stupidity.

The calls this man makes I would completely disagree with. Leamy for gods sake! There are at least five backrows that deserve to be put there in front of him. Buckley? People say we are stuck in that position. I agree completely, but you could pick any front row out of the AIL to replace Buckley. He doesn't even give it his all. How can he justify putting P Wallace in ahead of Fitz? If there is an injury fly Wallace out but otherwise he adds nothing to this squad. And I know Fitz hasn't been amazing recently but he's a hell of a lot better than Wallace. When the team selection rolls around it will be worse again imo. Its about time we got a foreign boss in who won't worry about making sure there are a certain number of whatever province or have personal preferences.

As for wishing we do badly I should have said more clearly what I meant. I would be delighted for us to do well. But I think what will happen is we will do just about good enough to get to the first knockout round and we will get destroyed. The blame will be put on some player who shouldn't be there at all and are in out of their depth (P Wallace/ Buckley) instead of on DK where it really lies. He'll get away with it and continue to lead us for many mediocre years to come. At least if we go crashing out in the first round and DK is fired, hopefully a capable manager will take over and By the time time the next WC comes around we'll be ready to achieve our potential. Basically my angry logic is I would be happy to do bad in this world cup if it made us do better in the long term.

Maybe I am being a bit harsh but I really think we have the talent to win a world cup. Honestly. I can't see how we have Heineken cup winners Leinster, Magners League winners Munster and a strong Ulster side. And we can't produce an International team that gets results. It just wrecks the head.

Gelio · 22-08-2011 5:02pm

satory wrote: »

I just wish that the IRFU would learn from their mistakes and NOT give out contract extensions before a World Cup..

They got stung badly 4 years ago, and what have they this time around? but given DK an extension

Ha ha you read my mind!

eoferrall · 22-08-2011 5:15pm

Yeah I follow you, the only way I see wallace there is that if sexton gets a knock then o'gara plays (or vice versa) and wallace sits on the bench in case we need to sub OH.

if not knocks I would hope the 3 subs for the backs would be Murray, sexton/o'gara and mcfadden. those three cover all back positions (bar FB) but with Bowe/earls FB is fine (maybe earls in trouble if against Oz/NZ...) but you get my idea.

can't fly out a replacement as the player replaced is then out for the rest of the RWC. sexton and o'gara are streets ahead of any other OH so flying out a replacement is not an option unless one can't continue.

fitz and wallace were not fighting for the same positions really, as I do not see him covering centres currently in the irish set up. trimble got the call ahead of fitz imo.

fitz lost out due to combinations, mcfadden is in better form and covers more (11-14) once fitz wasn't in top 3 wingers his spot was in danger due to versatility and combinations imo.

Buckley well what can you say! haha! but I disagree about the AIL, if they are not good enough to play in munster ahead of buckley then I want them no where near the irish team. I reckon this time next year we will have hagan in the squad.

yes I am dreading another 2007, but now that the squad is picked and the 1st team largely known, does players like wallace/leamy who will play against russia and that's about it matter in the grand scheme of things. we don't have players competing in centre yet, but got a few coming through with potential in Ulster (marshell etc), leinster (o'malley etc) and Munster (barnes) that in another season or two this problem will not be an issue.

We do not have serious squad depth, and even NZ found out there is a remarkable variation from their firsts and their seconds. ie their seconds are not as good as they thought!

it all rests on the Australia game tho. (provided we can actually play longer than 15/20 mins.

eoferrall · 22-08-2011 5:22pm

satory wrote: »

I just wish that the IRFU would learn from their mistakes and NOT give out contract extensions before a World Cup..

They got stung badly 4 years ago, and what have they this time around? but given DK an extension

ajeffares wrote: »

Ha ha you read my mind!

I'm worried about this also, kidneys record is not that great, people go on about him winning a grand slam and being better than EOS. but EOS was twice (maybe 3 times) denied by the last kick of the game effectively from getting the grand slam AND playing quality rugby.

under kidney we lurged to a GS (by a missed kick at the end of the game) playing brutal rugby and done nothing since.

whether the players are not as good as we think (provincial performances would not back this up) or kidney is not an international manager, or his back room staff is not up to scratch.

I would like to raise a question, why is gaffney always around irish teams and provinces. from my viewpoint he stifles back lines. leinster under him were stale and ireland backs are currently stale. they are currently offering ZERO penetration!:(

this lack of penetration is what disturbs me.

so I would agree in a long winded way, either kidney or his backroom staff are not up to scratch, but the book stops with kidney re staff and i suppose the IRFU with regards kidney.

not being privvy to the contract I would hope that there are some sort of metrics in there that mean a disastrous RWC and no compensation would be required effectively. I am hoping that a 2 yr extension was not granted with no get out clauses.

satory · 22-08-2011 5:23pm

eoferrall wrote: »

fitz and wallace were not fighting for the same positions really, as I do not see him covering centres currently in the irish set up. trimble got the call ahead of fitz imo.

Yeah I agree with this, and for that reason alone theres no way Fitz should of gone... Over the last couple of games Trimble has been our standout player, the only guy that actually went out there and booked his place. He'd easily be a starting Wing for me on the basis of his recent performances.

eoferrall · 22-08-2011 5:25pm

satory wrote: »

Yeah I agree with this, and for that reason alone theres no way Fitz should of gone... Over the last couple of games Trimble has been our standout player, the only guy that actually went out there and booked his place. He'd easily be a starting Wing for me on the basis of his recent performances.

Yup I'd have bowe, kearney and trimble starting personally against england as the unit to go to the RWC.

Gelio · 22-08-2011 5:44pm

With regards to Wallace v Fitz, I agree that they are a different positions but I think the fact that McFadden was selected means we don't need Wallaces cover and it grants us permission to bring someone that offers something to the team.

Yeah I got a bit carried a way there. But I do believe there are plenty of players better than Buckley in this country.

Your dead right though. People say DK won us a Grand Slam. But if Jones had made that kick DK would have nothing to his name except one good six nations, which is not the same thing at all.

And Kidney runs the show. So if there is a problem with one of the other coaches its up to Kidney to solve. I believe thats right anyway.

Gelio · 22-08-2011 5:55pm

eoferrall wrote: »

Yup I'd have bowe, kearney and trimble starting personally against england as the unit to go to the RWC.

Completely agree. But I would have Fitz as sub for the back three. His preferred position is actually full back! I don't think Earls deserves that spot ahead of fitz

corny · 22-08-2011 7:59pm

I think we've gone backwards in many areas under Kidney and the other coaching staff. The only good thing he's done for me was the clear the air get together Christmas 08.

There was a time when our lineout was feared and our attacking play, broken field and set piece, was top notch (try against the Argies in 07 for example). Thing is i'd vehemently argue we've a more talented side now. We've serious ball carriers in the forwards (Healy, SOB, Wallace, Ferris and Heaslip) and yet they are just not utilised in any coherent pattern. We had only David Wallace back in the day. We've also backs who produce sublime moments in club jerseys but when they put on the green they can't take the ball a couple of phases without losing shape or knocking it on. This qualifies Kidney for a contract extension?

Its a real shame because i find myself not as enthused as i should be about a WC. Maybe thats not Kidneys fault and i know a ball hasn't been kicked yet. On present form we're light years behind France, NZ and Australia. I could settle for mediocrity but the nagging belief in unfulfilled promise is ****in soul destroying!:)

Gelio · 22-08-2011 8:05pm

corny wrote: »

I think we've gone backwards in many areas under Kidney and the other coaching staff. The only good thing he's done for me was the clear the air get together Christmas 08.

There was a time when our lineout was feared and our attacking play, broken field and set piece, was top notch (try against the Argies in 07 for example). Thing is i'd vehemently argue we've a more talented side now. We've serious ball carriers in the forwards (Healy, SOB, Wallace, Ferris and Heaslip) and yet they are just not utilised in any coherent pattern. We had only David Wallace back in the day. We've also backs who produce sublime moments in club jerseys but when they put on the green they can't take the ball a couple of phases without losing shape or knocking it on. This qualifies Kidney for a contract extension?

Its a real shame because i find myself not as enthused as i should be about a WC. Maybe thats not Kidneys fault and i know a ball hasn't been kicked yet. On present form we're light years behind France, NZ and Australia. I could settle for mediocrity but the nagging belief in unfulfilled promise is ****in soul destroying!:)

+1, couldn't agree more

Gelio · 22-08-2011 8:58pm

Actually one thing just popped into my head, why was Geordan Murphy selected out of the blue? I'm not arguing with having him in, I think he deserves a spot. I'm just wondering why Kidney hasn't been using him at all and then selects him on the squad?

corny · 22-08-2011 9:09pm

ajeffares wrote: »

Actually one thing just popped into my head, why was Geordan Murphy selected out of the blue? I'm not arguing with having him in, I think he deserves a spot. I'm just wondering why Kidney hasn't been using him at all and then selects him on the squad?

Supposedly he was told a week ago he wasn't travelling. He wasn't originally in Kidneys plans, Jones' injury changed that.

Gelio · 22-08-2011 9:15pm

corny wrote: »

Supposedly he was told a week ago he wasn't travelling. He wasn't originally in Kidneys plans, Jones' injury changed that.

If that is true it means Kidney doesn't even consider Fitz at full back which is his favorite position according to a RW interview.

Zagato · 26-08-2011 9:44am

So a just heads up, if you haven't yet seen. They are going to show Ireland vs Australia game live in the O2 Saturday 17th September-remember it's at 09:30

Tickets are free and available through ticketmaster from 11.00 today

Finer details -sketchy at the moment

satory · 26-08-2011 1:00pm

Anyone know if the pubs might be opening for the games?

Life outside BR

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