Is a peaceful 32 united ireland possible

luckyfrank · 07-10-2008 9:00pm #1

First off let me just say anyone is welcome to the disussion as long as they show respect for each other i read other thread and it became silly at the end

There is nothing id love more than a peaceful 32 county united ireland
We share this island together no one owns it more than any other. The orange tradtion is a part of our shared history and i can understand how people of the orange tradtion would feel uncomfortable in a 32 county ireland but you's have nothing to fear im sure the four provinces could be federlised to an extent. The white flag of peace between green and orange traditions

I really think that federlising the provinces is the way forward a 9 county ulster which could decide its own education and healthcare while issues such as tax and national security would be handled by the central dublin goverment with repersenitives from all four provinces also i think we should be far more accomadating towards the orange tradition in a 32 county ireland with national holidays such as the 12th

Lockstep · 07-10-2008 9:43pm

I'd view it as possible.

I'd support a peacefully achieved 32 county republic.

dresden8 · 07-10-2008 9:50pm

Anything is possible.

Generally money will solve any problem. If Great Britain goes down the tubes financially the North may well solve it's difficulties with Dublin pdq.

Remember foot and mouth? The North distanced itself from "the mainland" and became "Irish" in the blink of a press release.

Iwasfrozen · 07-10-2008 10:42pm

I would support a Federalised United Ireland as long as it is what the majority of the North want.

luckyfrank · 07-10-2008 11:50pm

Id like to hear from moderate unionists and how they would feel about a federal ulster within a united ireland.

LordSutch · 08-10-2008 7:30am

Goodness me, we have just finished one thread on this Topic "Would you like to see a united Ireland" and now this one ..........

Speaking on behalf of moderate Unionism, I would agree to a 'United Ireland' as long as the Union Flag & the National Anthem GSTQ is retained, my point being that being a 'Unionist' means valuing the Union with Britain.

Moderate Unionists are all for closer ties & closer cooperation between the various parts of this island, but they cannot just 'give up' the heritage & become something they our not - (adopt your president, adopt your Tricolour & adopt your Anthem too) :rolleyes:

"Yes" - to 32 county cooperation & closer ties with the Republic by all means.
"No" - to the North breaking the Union with the rest of the United Kingdom.

But if the South re-joined the Commonwealth then . . . . . ?

luckyfrank · 08-10-2008 8:12am

Camelot wrote: »

Goodness me, we have just finished one thread on this Topic "Would you like to see a united Ireland" and now this one ..........

Speaking on behalf of moderate Unionism, I would agree to a 'United Ireland' as long as the Union Flag & the National Anthem GSTQ is retained, my point being that being a 'Unionist' means valuing the Union with Britain.

Moderate Unionists are all for closer ties & closer cooperation between the various parts of this island, but they cannot just 'give up' the heritage & become something they our not - (adopt your president, adopt your Tricolour & adopt your Anthem too) :rolleyes:

"Yes" - to 32 county cooperation & closer ties with the Republic by all means.
"No" - to the North breaking the Union with the rest of the United Kingdom.

But if the South re-joined the Commonwealth then . . . . . ?

Well as a moderate nationalist id support ireland rejoining the commenwealth to an extent if it meant having dual national anthems closer ties with the uk id be all for it..... Again in a federlised ulster you could have dual heads of state if so be..... I really hope in the next general election up north there is a swing back to the moderate parties with the SLDP and UUP regaining popularity its because of them that we have any sort of self governence in the north

McArmalite · 08-10-2008 9:42am

Camelot wrote: »

Goodness me, we have just finished one thread on this Topic "Would you like to see a united Ireland" and now this one ..........

Speaking on behalf of moderate Unionism, I would agree to a 'United Ireland' as long as the Union Flag & the National Anthem GSTQ is retained, my point being that being a 'Unionist' means valuing the Union with Britain.

Moderate Unionists are all for closer ties & closer cooperation between the various parts of this island, but they cannot just 'give up' the heritage & become something they our not - (adopt your president, adopt your Tricolour & adopt your Anthem too) :rolleyes:

"Yes" - to 32 county cooperation & closer ties with the Republic by all means.
"No" - to the North breaking the Union with the rest of the United Kingdom.

But if the South re-joined the Commonwealth then . . . . . ?

" Moderate Unionists are all for closer ties & closer cooperation between the various parts of this island, but they cannot just 'give up' the heritage & become something they our not " Their tens of thousands of their brethern which they abonded to the newly formed Free State with barely a blink, despite their utterances pre treaty of fighting to the death, blood baths throughout the island etc, etc, gave up their 'heritage' without a single shot fired or barely a whimper ? Just remember the leader of unionism at the time was Edward Carson from Dublin, the unionists even won several seats in Dublin in what was the posher areas of the time such as Rathmines. No bloodbath etc when britian had to go.

Without the support of britian, the unionists will be more than able to 'give up' the heritage .

getz · 08-10-2008 10:10am

give up both national anthems-one is singing about a old dear the other is about beating the british--saxon foe

the joint national anthem could be --danny boy--the flag mayby the flag of saint patrick--join the commonwealth--with the other 53 nations and 1.7 billion people--but most of all one sporting nation--it be a little bit special seeing a all ireland side taking on england

djpbarry · 08-10-2008 10:15am

Why does this keep coming up? Why the need for a united Ireland? Why not just leave everything as is?

oscarBravo · 08-10-2008 10:30am

Is a peaceful 32 county united Ireland possible?

No. Not yet. Taking this board as a microcosm of society, albeit a somewhat unrepresentative one, there are still too many people willing to attack each other for past grievances. We can wait in hope for parents to stop teaching their children to hate, and hopefully by then the question will be a quaint irrelevance.

08-10-2008 11:03am

At the moment I couldn't see it happening but in the next 20 years or so..? Maybe. I'd agree with alot of the other posters by saying that the core values of Unionism would need to be accepted by the whole island which is the biggest obstactle.

getz · 08-10-2008 11:48am

could it be that in 20 years time the british /irish problem will be out of our hands anyway .the way all of us are having to follow E U dictations and laws no one will have a say on what goes on.

guinnessdrinker · 08-10-2008 12:42pm

I agree with most of what the op has said in his post. I think that a peacefull 32 county united Ireland is possible. Not tomorrow obvioulsly but in the not too distant future.

As regards to the anthems and flags, I think compromise can be made in these areas, neither anthem is acceptable to the other tradition on the island as they stand. A new anthem will have to be adopted (not Ireland's call!) as well as a new flag.

I like the op's idea about keeping the 12th of July as a holiday for the whole island. We have a shared tradition on the island, we are not too different from each other no matter what people say.

I think a federalised system could work well too. I know this idea has been doing the rounds for years (Eire Nua etc.) but I think it is an idea that could benifit everyone on the island. I would like to see each of the four provinces have more say in the running of day to day matters.

madden1 · 08-10-2008 4:26pm

dresden8 wrote: »

Anything is possible.

Generally money will solve any problem. If Great Britain goes down the tubes financially the North may well solve it's difficulties with Dublin pdq.

Remember foot and mouth? The North distanced itself from "the mainland" and became "Irish" in the blink of a press release

Agree 100 % with this the money GOD solves all ill,

luckyfrank · 08-10-2008 6:02pm

djpbarry wrote: »

Why does this keep coming up? Why the need for a united Ireland? Why not just leave everything as is?

Think of what a unified ireland could achieve........ if you have any nationalistic sentiment running through your body you'd yearn for a 32 county ireland its should be a core value every irishman born.

midlandsmissus · 08-10-2008 6:16pm

Speaking as a southerner living in Northern Ireland, and considering myself to be very neutral to both sides, I would say there is not a chance in our lifetimes.

I would also say that people down south just cannot understand everything that happened up here. I, myself was ignorant to alot of things until I actually moved here.

There is in fact a deep distrust of the south up here by both Protestants and Catholics. I have had catholics say to me: "you signed us over to the british", "you left us to die up here". You southerners did nothing.

I have found the majority of catholics up here have the attitude "They never gave a f*ck about us down there" and dont paricularly want to join with the south.
Protestants up here, all that I have met anyway would NEVER consider the idea of joining with the south. They feel that it would go against all who have died at the hands of the I.R.A. There is still ALOT of hatred up here and it is only now taking baby steps to an improvement.
Maybe four or five generations from now it will simmer down to a point where people might consider it, but you're having a laugh if you think it will be any time soon.

luckyfrank · 08-10-2008 6:34pm

midlandsmissus wrote: »

Speaking as a southerner living in Northern Ireland, and considering myself to be very neutral to both sides, I would say there is not a chance in our lifetimes.

I would also say that people down south just cannot understand everything that happened up here. I, myself was ignorant to alot of things until I actually moved here.

There is in fact a deep distrust of the south up here by both Protestants and Catholics. I have had catholics say to me: "you signed us over to the british", "you left us to die up here". You southerners did nothing.

I have found the majority of catholics up here have the attitude "They never gave a f*ck about us down there" and dont paricularly want to join with the south.
Protestants up here, all that I have met anyway would NEVER consider the idea of joining with the south. They feel that it would go against all who have died at the hands of the I.R.A. There is still ALOT of hatred up here and it is only now taking baby steps to an improvement.
Maybe four or five generations from now it will simmer down to a point where people might consider it, but you're having a laugh if you think it will be any time soon.

Maybe your right but im up the north every week as a truck driver and i meet alot of people from both sides and all of those who i met a very moderate in out-look i would say the people you have met would be of the extremist out-look i think a form of a united ireland is possible in 30 or so years with a 9 county ulster semi automonus

Crash · 08-10-2008 6:40pm

luckyfrank wrote: »

Think of what a unified ireland could achieve........ if you have any nationalistic sentiment running through your body you'd yearn for a 32 county ireland its should be a core value every irishman born.

I'm intrigued by this one - what exactly could a 32 county republic achieve that would be different? any examples?

luckyfrank · 08-10-2008 6:48pm

Going Forward wrote: »

I'm intrigued by this one - what exactly could a 32 county republic achieve that would be different? any examples?

Yes sporting wise and politcally we would be much stronger i believe. In time i believe an all ireland economy would be stronger aswell

LordSutch · 08-10-2008 6:48pm

luckyfrank wrote: »

Think of what a unified ireland could achieve........ if you have any nationalistic sentiment running through your body you'd yearn for a 32 county ireland its should be a core value every irishman born.

Yeah, right :rolleyes:

What a load of old cobblers ...............

madden1 · 08-10-2008 9:51pm

Camelot wrote: »

Yeah, right :rolleyes:

What a load of old cobblers ..............

Looks like we are back to the same old slanging match on this thread like all other threads that try to have a civilised discussion on this subject

LordSutch · 08-10-2008 10:34pm

Exactly - I agree with you madden1, this topic has been done to death in a very similar Thread still going. "Would you like to see a united Ireland" where all the same questions have been asked & all the same answers have been offered . . .

I gave a serious answer to a serious question in Post#6.

BenjAii · 08-10-2008 10:47pm

Quite apart from the issue of mutually incompatible views of national identity, there is the question of cold hard cash.

I think its fair to say NI lives in the style it has grown accustomed to thanks to a generous largesse from the British taxpayer. I believe the figure is usually quoted at several billion pounds sterling a year.

Given, if this was removed, NI would probably collapse economically how are we in the Republic, with a much smaller tax base than Britain, supposed to continue with this were there to be a 32 county Ireland ?

madden1 · 09-10-2008 12:02am

Camelot wrote: »

Exactly -

I agree with you madden1, this topic has been done to death in a very similar Thread still going. "Would you like to see a united Ireland" where all the same questions have been asked & all the same answers have been offered . . .

I gave a serious answer to a serious question in Post#6.

Camelot I agree that your answer on post 6 was fair and sound but your post on 21 in response to luckyfrank What a load of old cobblers ...... was a dig at his views, and not as you state that the topic was done to death.

Camelot wrote: »

Yeah, right :rolleyes:

What a load of old cobblers ...............

LordSutch · 09-10-2008 12:23am

Question for you madden1 re luckyfrank's post#16 "Is it also your core value for a 32 county ireland"?
(as originally posted by 'luckyfrank)

The reason I said it was a load of old cobblers, was because his statement is 'narrow' and unaccommodating to other Irish people who dont hold his views! he says (its should be a core value every irishman born) :rolleyes:

Thats quite presumptuous on his part, & certainly Not my core value, and I thought we had moved-on to a more in depth & cerebral discussion - instead of just saying that if you are born irish then your core value must be to crave a united ireland!

djpbarry · 09-10-2008 10:29am

luckyfrank wrote: »

Think of what a unified ireland could achieve...

What?

luckyfrank wrote: »

...if you have any nationalistic sentiment running through your body you'd yearn for a 32 county ireland its should be a core value every irishman born.

And that's all it boils down to, isn't it? Some kind of emotional, nationalist belief in an entitlement to the whole island, which I will never understand.

I see no more of a need to unite the Republic of Ireland with Northern Ireland than I do to unite the Republic with Wales, Scotland, England, the Isle of Man, the Basque Country, etc., etc.

dante18 · 09-10-2008 11:17am

djpbarry wrote: »

I see no more of a need to unite the Republic of Ireland with Northern Ireland than I do to unite the Republic with Wales, Scotland, England, the Isle of Man, the Basque Country, etc., etc.

I think you're just deliberately trying to annoy people by saying things like that. Or maybe you just think that it makes you look more cosmopolitan and educated to appear to be above the patriotism of the masses.

I can't understand how any true Irishman would not want to see his country united. Not only is it unpatriotic but it's downright unmanly.

djpbarry · 09-10-2008 11:28am

dante18 wrote: »

Or maybe you just think that it makes you look more cosmopolitan and educated to appear to be above the patriotism of the masses.

Well, I am pretty ****ing amazing; you’d understand if you knew me.

dante18 wrote: »

I can't understand how any true Irishman would not want to see his country united.

Northern Ireland is not my country; this seems to be a concept that many nationalists and republicans have a great deal of difficulty in grasping.

dante18 wrote: »

Not only is it unpatriotic but it's downright unmanly.

:rolleyes:

Why do you assume that I’m a man?

dante18 · 09-10-2008 11:46am

djpbarry wrote:

Northern Ireland is not my country;

Kerry is not my country. It's part of my country though. It's the same with the north of Ireland.

djpbarry wrote:

this seems to be a concept that many nationalists and republicans have a great deal of difficulty in grasping.

I have a very hard time grasping it. Ulster is a province of Ireland. The fact that 6 of its counties are temporarily under the jurisdiction of a different government from the rest of us doesn't change that. It's still a province of Ireland.

djpbarry wrote:

Why do you assume that I’m a man?

I don't assume that you're a man. I don't think I've ever said anything to make you think I did assume that.

Real men like me are patriotic and have a sense of pride in our country.

CerebralCortex · 09-10-2008 12:01pm

dante18 wrote: »

I think you're just deliberately trying to annoy people by saying things like that. Or maybe you just think that it makes you look more cosmopolitan and educated to appear to be above the patriotism of the masses.

I can't understand how any true Irishman would not want to see his country united. Not only is it unpatriotic but it's downright unmanly.

Do you realise how offensive that sounds? I mean your defining what it means to be a true Irishmen and completely isolating those of us who consider ourselfs Irish but don't agree with you. You realise what you said sounds no better than what a hard line unionist would say. Two sides of the same coin. I suppose you think you need all your grandparents to be white catholics and from Ireland to be considered Irish?

Is a peaceful 32 united ireland possible

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