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Boxer win Irish DTT, but pull out.

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  • 21-07-2008 4:33pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 10,726 ✭✭✭✭


    Aye, you read right....

    Boxer DTT wins digital tv contracts
    http://www.rte.ie/business/2008/0721/digital.html
    Monday, 21 July 2008 16:27
    The Broadcasting Commission of Ireland has awarded the three national digital terrestrial television contracts to the Boxer DTT consortium. Boxer includes Communicorp and BT.

    Two other consortia had applied for the licences - Easy TV - involving RTE and UPC - and One Vision which includes TV3, Setanta and Eircom.

    The BCI said the awarding of the contracts is subject to clarifications and the successful outcome of contract negotiations, which will take place in the coming months.
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    Applying for the licences, Boxer had said it would offer prices below €10 a month and will allow viewers to top up their channel selections 'a la carte'. It said there will also be a 'pay as you go' option for its pay channels.


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Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 742 ✭✭✭channelsurfer


    Boxer TV line up (per their submission)
    Starter Pack FTA + 7 channels ��9.99 per month
    • RTÉ ONE
    • RTÉ TWO
    • TV3
    • TG4
    • BBC 1
    • BBC 2
    • UTV
    • C4
    • Discovery
    • Eurosport
    • BBC News 24
    Boxer pack Starter Pack + 11 channels ��22.99 per month
    • Sky One
    • Living
    • Sky News
    • Film4
    • MTV (time sharing with Nickelodeon)
    • Nickleodeon (time sharing with MTV)
    • Disney
    • E4
    • Setanta Ireland
    • BBC Ireland (new channel based on BBC 3, BBC 4, CBeebies & CBBC)
    • ITV Ireland (new channel based on ITV 2, ITV 3 and ITV 4)
    Premium Pack Sport and/or Film additional ��24.99 each per month
    • 3 x sports channels
    - Either from Setanta or Sky or rights holders direct
    • 3 x movie channels
    - Either from Sky or UPC or rights holders direct
    1
    2
    3
    SPORTS 1
    SPORTS 2


    for anyone that didnt know, this is what they propose to provide.

    for 9.99 they will have very few takers In my opinion, but thats just because I would have thought one visions offering was way ahead in terms of channel offerings for 9.99.

    I predict it is doomed, but I am open to correction if any wiser scholar can convince me otherwise.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,329 ✭✭✭radiospan


    Sorry for being very uninformed on what the three applicants were offering, but does this mean an end for HD Ireland for now?


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,884 ✭✭✭pa990


    i think i'll go for freesat and save myself 9.99.

    And if i want to pay /view anymore i'll get a sky sub.

    I think a lot of people will be thinking the same as me


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,634 ✭✭✭Mayo Exile


    Aren't RTE 1, RTE 2, TG4 and TV3 being provided anyway free of charge, (regardless of Boxer winning the license), under RTE's own public service obligations?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 394 ✭✭Propellerhead


    Boxer TV line up (per their submission)
    Starter Pack FTA + 7 channels ��9.99 per month
    • RTÉ ONE
    • RTÉ TWO
    • TV3
    • TG4
    • BBC 1
    • BBC 2
    • UTV
    • C4
    • Discovery
    • Eurosport
    • BBC News 24
    Boxer pack Starter Pack + 11 channels ��22.99 per month
    • Sky One
    • Living
    • Sky News
    • Film4
    • MTV (time sharing with Nickelodeon)
    • Nickleodeon (time sharing with MTV)
    • Disney
    • E4
    • Setanta Ireland
    • BBC Ireland (new channel based on BBC 3, BBC 4, CBeebies & CBBC)
    • ITV Ireland (new channel based on ITV 2, ITV 3 and ITV 4)
    Premium Pack Sport and/or Film additional ��24.99 each per month
    • 3 x sports channels
    - Either from Setanta or Sky or rights holders direct
    • 3 x movie channels
    - Either from Sky or UPC or rights holders direct
    1
    2
    3
    SPORTS 1
    SPORTS 2


    for anyone that didnt know, this is what they propose to provide.

    for 9.99 they will have very few takers In my opinion, but thats just because I would have thought one visions offering was way ahead in terms of channel offerings for 9.99.

    I predict it is doomed, but I am open to correction if any wiser scholar can convince me otherwise.

    This is utter ****e.

    Cramming BBC3 and 4 into one channel?
    Cramming the extra ITVs into one channel?
    Charging double to get the Free to Air Film 4 and Sky News?

    Are these people insane or more likely haven't a bull's notion what they are doing?

    I'm keeping my test box for widescreen RTE and I'll be installing a Freesat PVR by hook or by crook for the rest when they come out


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 742 ✭✭✭channelsurfer


    I think they are completly insane (the channel line up) and boxer will be lucky to have 25,000 subscribers by year 3.

    If you look at it you will be paying 9.99 for 2 channels... discovery and eurosport.. the other channels are available fta by either aerial or digital satelitte.


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    In my opinion, this is doomed from the start. There's nothing there that will make someone choose Boxer over Sky or UPC, except maybe those who can't install a dish. I think that since ITV Digital failed, this doesn't stand a chance.


  • Registered Users Posts: 23,641 ✭✭✭✭Elmo


    Why did all applicates suggest that RTE 1, 2, TV3 and TG4 are part of their basic packages? Plus OTV and IFB Channel. And RTE plan RTE 3, RTE 1+1

    All of these channels are FTA: FREE TO AIR.

    I am surprised communicorp got it but I guess it means that someone other then RTE, UPC, Eircom are in the market.


  • Registered Users Posts: 558 ✭✭✭scath


    I have to agree guys. I think the their proposed offering won't go down well. I emailed em as such. January 2009 is the proposed date so that's good. But forget about T2 boxes. As others have said, we can wait til 2012 and just get a box exchange. I think if they go ahead with the offering, that Sky will just blow them out with an all singing all dancing 'get free UK channels' for €150 and UTV.

    I expect with the deal with Boxer, that Freesat UK will stay out of the Irish market. On the bright side, boxes are to be offered free.

    I think, they'll have to try and see low uptake of their offering. Then they'll retool, give partial refunds and retool along the lines of Onevision.

    Why boxer? Probably and I'm not in the know but, Boxer involves not having a UK centric broadcaster in the bids or big telco like Eircom and not having UPC dominating.

    Apart from BT, Boxer brings in new entrants to the TV business such as Boxer AB. The logical extension would be a bid by Communcorp for Eircom and a triple play company with different brands ie Eircom, radio stations, Meteor, Boxer.

    Onevision was a chance for Setanta to get in against Sky. They're the main loser. A lost business opportunity for TV3.

    Well when charged UK channels become public unless retooled I see Sky as the winners, unless Boxer change their plans which the can. An interesting article in http://www.siliconrepublic.com/news/article/11062/digital-life/the-end-of-tv-as-we-know-it

    The article by Sorcha Corcoran, talks about the the 'Gadgetiers or Cool Kids' presumably that's us and the lean back passiver people who should lead to the end of one size fits all TV. "Gadgetiers’ and ‘Kool Kids’ as they call them – will lead us to a world of platform-agnostic content, fluid mobility of media experiences, individualised pricing schemes and an end to the traditional concept of release windows." "To both protect current and grow future revenues, the report (IBM services) recommends leading companies do the following: dynamically profile consumer groups; tailor products and services by segment; cost-effectively operate tandem channels; and end the ‘one-size-fits-all’ marketing approach."


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,634 ✭✭✭Mayo Exile


    Originally posted by scath: But forget about T2 boxes

    Would appear to be so, if they are claiming to be on air by January 2009.
    Highly optimistic if you look at their some of their own implementation documents:

    http://www.bci.ie/DTT/boxer/licencea_section8_print.pdf

    The main "big" masts are scheduled for rollout by Q2 2009. Which could any date up to June 30th 2009? These will cover the main urban centres of population. That would leave them using current DVB-T/MPEG4 technology.

    Original reaction from posters here is largely negative. Would agree with this. If all you want to pay is your TV license, then RTE's own public service MUX plus a dish and a UK Freesat box, makes most of Boxer's basic package redundant. Also non-Freesat mode on these boxes will get you Sky News plus other channels too.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 68,499 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Can see this happening:

    1: RTE mux launches as planned next month and rolls out slowly, probably in tandem with DAB
    2: Boxer gets delayed
    3: And again
    4: Boxer launches off Three Rock, Spur Hill, Woodcock Hill in about 2010
    5: Boxer hit the wall in about 2012 after never having expanded their network due to low takeup....


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 29 Dave 2008


    MYOB wrote: »
    Can see this happening:

    1: RTE mux launches as planned next month and rolls out slowly, probably in tandem with DAB
    2: Boxer gets delayed
    3: And again
    4: Boxer launches off Three Rock, Spur Hill, Woodcock Hill in about 2010
    5: Boxer hit the wall in about 2012 after never having expanded their network due to low takeup....


    Spot on!

    This is doomed to absolute failure. The only thing commercially viable about DTT (apart from maybe add on premium sports channels a la UK DTT), is the value of each of the channel slots. The business model should be broadcasting all basic channels for FREE, and charging said broadcasters a fee for getting on the scarce resource that is DTT......then again maybe that's the eventual plan anyway.

    Boxer = ITV Digital Mark II


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,884 ✭✭✭pa990


    we've been waiting since the mid to late 90's for dtt

    We could be waiting till the early to mid 20's for T2


  • Moderators, Regional North West Moderators Posts: 19,113 Mod ✭✭✭✭byte
    byte


    BCI wrote:
    The Commission considered the applications received from three consortia and has awarded the contracts in principle to Boxer DTT Limited.

    The award of the contracts is subject to clarifications and the successful outcome of contract negotiations, which will take place in the coming months.

    There is a small hope that contract negotiations fall through.

    I can only echo the negative comments made by others, and do feel it'll be ITV digital +1, FAIL! Maybe they'll revise their strategy...

    I wonder if anyone in BCI read these boards.


  • Registered Users Posts: 558 ✭✭✭scath


    I see Canal+ are launching DTT usb sticks. This would be a strong part of a DTT business strategy to increase subs see:http://www.broadbandtvnews.com/?p=5662. That is if they can revise the tier offering. Top up and a la carte is grand and the free box is good but my thinking is that broadcasters may push for FTA as a more successful option so I'd expect that Boxer will see the light and change as required. Any company that does poorly changes or fails. What you could find is that as subs fail, that the sports channels remain pay and the rest becomes free-to-air being carriage fees to boxer.

    I think that they'll have learned enough from ITV Digital to test the Irish consumer, see how technologically inept or not they are. This will come down to Sky and whether they launch a FTA as an option with 'Free UK channels'. I still expect UPC to combo with Boxer, in fact they may want to buy into the Boxer consortium and drop their cable channels in return, converting their cable offering into other channels. Perhaps that won't happen but their could be combos, otherwise they'll begin to lose customers.

    Also some consumers will look at Boxer's tiers and say, nah...same price as UPC I'll stay. UPC might take three's broadband lead and begin offering top-up options but with installation charges for DTV. Sky could do the same.

    Boxer's future lies in becoming a half free-to-air platform half premium channel platform ie sport/Films/Adult as premium.

    So I don't think they'll become ITV Digital and fail. I think it just be a different Boxer from the mainlypay mainly option. The pressure will come from failing subs and the desire of UK broadcasters to go FTA and get more advertising reach. Determining will be how quick Boxer will see the light or how the current tiers drives people to FTA satellite and in this regard Boxer would be well advised to combo with satellite perhaps Freesat UK in order to keep Sky out and mitigate the low subs. Certainly this is something that RTÉ should be pushing for.

    So I think we'll have a Boxer Freeview and Boxer Premium like the UK emerge around 2012/3. Maybe Boxer will buy up Top UP TV UK also going forward.


  • Registered Users Posts: 23,641 ✭✭✭✭Elmo


    Well as most of us either went for Easy TV or OneVision I some how don't think anyone in the BCI even know what boards is.

    I am currently only interest in the new PSB services and perhaps some TV3 etc.

    Channel 6, 3Today and 3Expose if they ever launch on DTT seem doomed to part of the basic package regardless of who go the licence.

    I don't know why I am dissappointed at the announcement, I would have been dissappoint no matter who got this licence.

    Perhaps I should just go back to hating TV3 :)
    Boxer's future lies in becoming a half free-to-air platform half premium channel platform ie sport/Films/Adult.

    Have to agree with that, but I the only reason Boxer won't be come ITVDigitalIreland is only because of the ASO, just in the same way as their parent company has become so successful in Sweden.

    Will RTE provide FTA settop boxes?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 742 ✭✭✭channelsurfer


    i emailed the contact person in boxer with congratulations and a word of warning to change their policy but dont think they will take any notice.(the first contact person bounced back to my email as non existant)
    i also informed them that they would do well to read this board as a matter of urgency to guage opinion of the wise people on here .
    who knows maybe boxer are more clever than we think. But one statistic stands out.. in the first year of boxer in sweden they got 500 ...yes 500 subscribers.
    they only suceeded cos the goverment heavily subsided them and promoted the switch off extensively.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,660 ✭✭✭crawler


    well - at least they were fast out of the traps on the website

    http://www.boxer.se/?page=1365 (also resolves http://www.boxer.ie)


  • Registered Users Posts: 558 ✭✭✭scath


    That site is up over a month now with the recent incarnation there 2 weeks. So they must have got indications from the BCI before today but just kept stum out of respect to the BCI. So you know, I think we overlooked that, but I was saying on the boards how curious it was that they were the only 1 of the three with a website up.

    Also channelsurfer I spoke with that person 3 months ago, but the email has never worked. The other Irish contact works. I said the same a week ago re the offering. Better bet emailing the Swedish rather than Irish contact. More likely to listen I'd say. Y'know some Irish, know-it-all ego. I think they need to engage with those who contact them, generate positivity.

    They've spoke in the proposals about Boxer customer service in Sweden, so they need to deliver on that and engage. True points about ASO avoiding failure unlike ITV Digital.

    But you know, its a question of how soft the Irish consumer is on prices. Australia has now gone for Freeview model in recent days. This seems to be the successful model for the most part.

    Maybe some Irish customers will show themselves soft. If so then Boxer may do well on the current plan. That's business. But some may not sign up. How many is the key question that will determine remodelling of the tiers.

    I see Liberty looking to buy a stake in Boxer Irish DTT soon and buy into the consortium and also into Boxer's Danish, Irish and Swedish DTT to grow their business. I also see them going after Eircom to grow their UPC business as a telco.

    I also see them do a deal with Denis O'Brien as part of a deal for Communicorp's radio interests.Perhaps they might also buy out Digicel and expand in that part of the world and expand Boxer in that part of the world.

    Boxer AB could become a subsidiary of Liberty Global. This may give O'Brien an alternative for Digicel sale to Carlos Slim of Movil.

    This could give Liberty growth potential securing UPC Ireland into the future with Cable-DTT combo and telecoms.

    I expect TV3 to go for UTV as UTV3 (merged name using both brands) which could add NI programming to TV3 News and UTV News to TV3 enabling it to go head to head with RTÉ News.

    In the process of acquiring Channel 6 this would solve programme rights issues to maximise advertising and to resolve programme rights and give it scale in programming for TV3 and an in into the radio business. Onevision was probably always for the benefit of Setanta against Sky.

    In terms of rights it may do a deal with ITV to buy its programming from these channels under its 3 Expose channel with Channel 6 supplementing both 3 and 3 Expose. ITV may see more sense in rebuffing this for advertising reasons meaning Doughty might wish to launch a bid for ITV proper and extract economies for programme rights in both territories.

    By buying UTV it gets into radio to grow its opportunities and also will have the NI advertising. Perhaps Doughty may take a stake in ITV and brand ITV Ireland as 3 Expose.

    Perhaps O'Brien might buy into Liberty as an investor when he sells Digicel to Carlos Slim (second wealthiest person in the world) and run Communicorp and run Communicorp's and Boxers European interests and thus Eircom, Boxer and the radio side of the business as part of Liberty Global. As such it would be a merger of Communicorp, Digicel and Boxer into Liberty with O'Brien as a key Board member. He may well buy Boxer AB in the near term to grow his DTT interests.

    See: http://www.independent.ie/business/irish/obrien-has-battle-on-his-hands-as-slim-moves-in-on-his-home-patch-1067214.html

    and
    http://www.sbpost.ie/post/pages/p/story.aspx-qqqt=MARKETS-qqqm=nav-qqqid=34524-qqqx=1.asp

    http://www.dtg.org.uk/news/news.php?class=countries&subclass=0&id=3061

    This would gave Liberty huge scale in Europe as a telco-media networks company.

    crawler wrote: »
    well - at least they were fast out of the traps on the website

    http://www.boxer.se/?page=1365 (also resolves http://www.boxer.ie)


  • Registered Users Posts: 499 ✭✭MACHEAD


    So the BCI have decided. We up north will be watching with bated breath to see what way things will pan out. Especially watching to see if the transponder arrangement on border sites (in my case Clermont Carn) will allow for 'overspill' a la analogue. Irrespective of what RTÉ carry on their MUX and whatever the commercial MUXes have to offer, if we can't get a decent signal up here from a rooftop aerial then regrettably we may be doomed to get irish TV solely from the Murdock's for the foreseeable future. Here's hoping we too can join in. As for T2, we'll probably get that up here late next year, perhaps there would be room to carry the RTÉ channels on that, one thing's for sure NO ONE will be buying anything until the technology is stabalised.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 811 ✭✭✭Rambo


    Mayo Exile wrote: »
    Aren't RTE 1, RTE 2, TG4 and TV3 being provided anyway free of charge, (regardless of Boxer winning the license), under RTE's own public service obligations?

    They will


  • Registered Users Posts: 32,417 ✭✭✭✭watty


    Hmm. Not an outcome I would have thought, but I'd have rated them 2 after Liberty/RTE. However I didn't bet on it. Nor express a very strong opinion.

    I have always said that given UPC's 700k+ households passed and Sky's already 450k+ subscribers and unknown number of FTA sat, that I could not see any viability of Pay DTT.

    I predict 500,000 households with Free DTT simply for the free Irish channels and less than 100k PayTV subs in 5 years unless an imaginative change to the packages.

    Certainly the packages have some dross and will BBC & ITV really permit the composite channels? I doubt it. The MTV/Nickleodeon time share is probably possible.

    LivingTV????

    Are movies AND sport (Both) then €50 on top of the whatever else you order?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 129 ✭✭dougdub


    I cannot believe the government have fcuked this up good and proper!!

    What happened to "freeview" we will only get the 4 stations free and pay for everything else??

    This sums up everything that is wrong with this country! They will be charging us a minimum of e9.99 + cost of a box (e120ish) to watch channels which the majority are FREE on a satellite!! :eek:


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,440 ✭✭✭swoofer


    I think one thing we can be sure of is that they will cram as many channels as possible into the muxes so that we get the worst possible quality for lcd and plasma tv's.

    gb--


  • Registered Users Posts: 23,641 ✭✭✭✭Elmo


    I expect TV3 to go for UTV as UTV3 (merged name using both brands) which could add NI programming to TV3 News and UTV News to TV3 enabling it to go head to head with RTÉ News.

    UTV is a huge company in comparision to TV3, if anything UTV would buy into TV3 if it was up for sale. TV3's owners have put their eggs all into the one basket and have found if difficult to gain any ground outside of TV3. They will be hoping that it is just a case of TV3 being given 3TODAY or 3EXPOSE without any competition for the licence (IMO I don't think the BCI should give TV3 any more licences they have ruined the one they have). As soon as TV3 get those licences Doherty Hanson will put the channel up for sale.

    I cann't imagine 3TODAY or 3EXPOSE being part of the pay packages for very long and will certainly be FTA in about a year.

    So far we know the following channel will be FTA: -

    RTE 1, 2, TV3, TG4, IFB Channel and OTV. With the possible extension of RTE services to include RTE 3 and RTE 1 +1


  • Registered Users Posts: 32,417 ✭✭✭✭watty


    After Analogue Switch off, UTV will only be the Internet & Radio / Media company. No Doubt they will make some programs for ITV. It's expected there will only be one ITV licence, not the current Analogue ones that have mostly been amalgamated.

    So TV3 won't be buying UTV.

    Also TV3 licence will expire not too far in future.

    RTE & TG4 as PSBs are G'teed a future.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,798 ✭✭✭podgeandrodge


    watty wrote: »
    I predict 500,000 households with Free DTT simply for the free Irish channels and less than 100k PayTV subs in 5 years unless an imaginative change to the packages.

    Am I correct in my understanding that RTE are rolling out a "freeview" of the basic channels and that this Boxer thing is another package altogether which just happens to be the same as the "freeview" with a couple of extra channels for 9.99?

    Are RTE providing a set-top box that is a different box from what Boxer will be providing?

    Thanks.


  • Registered Users Posts: 23,641 ✭✭✭✭Elmo


    Am I correct in my understanding that RTE are rolling out a "freeview" of the basic channels and that this Boxer thing is another package altogether which just happens to be the same as the "freeview" with a couple of extra channels for 9.99?

    Are RTE providing a set-top box that is a different box from what Boxer will be providing?

    Yes RTE1, 2, TG4, TV3 will be available free of charge on DTT, you will need either a settop box or a digital tuner to receive those channels. I am not sure that RTE will issue a Set top box or if you will have to go through Boxer to get a settop box.

    IFB (Irish Film Bord) Channel and OTV (oireachtas TV) will also be part of the FREE TO AIR (FTA) line up.

    RTE plan RTE 3 (a mix of old and new programming) and RTE 1 +1 also FTA.
    Also TV3 licence will expire not too far in future.

    LOL I think you mean that the BCI will be renewing the TV3 Licence when if finishes on 20th of September 2008


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,910 ✭✭✭barnicles


    IMO Boxer is doomed. Doomed I say:D


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  • Registered Users Posts: 32,417 ✭✭✭✭watty


    Am I correct in my understanding that RTE are rolling out a "freeview" of the basic channels and that this Boxer thing is another package altogether which just happens to be the same as the "freeview" with a couple of extra channels for 9.99?
    Yes.
    Are RTE providing a set-top box that is a different box from what Boxer will be providing?

    Thanks.
    No.

    Did RTE sell B&W TVs in 1962 or colour TVs later? I don't know. I moved from North in 1983. ITV/BBC/C4 never sold TVs. The Current Freeview and now Freesat while BBC sponsored design are not made or sold by any UK broadcaster.

    You buy them in a shop or online. Some TVs with Digital Tuners will work. Don't expect anyone in a Shop to know which, or even if the TV has a digital tuner at all, or what the Native Resolution is or what method of de-interlacing is used.

    It seems all they know is screen size. A Tesco manager apologised and said they get no training on it and are at the mercy of what it says on the packaging, which generally lists none of these things. It may say Widescreen or HDReady, but neither of those is useful info.

    The Boxer boxes can also be bought from Boxer and I believe you can have a short subscription and then continue to get the 4 free channels, like the Sky Model (not cable where NTL/UPC own the bax, Sky box is owned by you from day 1).


This discussion has been closed.
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