Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

Supplements under investigation

Options
  • 19-10-2007 7:03am
    #1
    slumped
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,946 ✭✭✭


    Heard on the news this morning that some supplements are under investigation because they should be classified as medicines.

    http://www.rte.ie/news/2007/1019/health.html

    S


«1345

Comments

  • Options
    #2
    Hanley
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 21,981 ✭✭✭✭Hanley


    Just a heads up guys.

    There's just after being an interview on RTE one. They had somone from the IMB, a doctor and some other muppet on it.

    Apparently BSN NO-Explode is a medicine these days. As is Animal M-stak. both of which I've seen for sale in several places around the city.

    From the tone of the voice of the IMB person, I think it would be wise to be careful. Looks like there's another major **** storm coming.


  • Options
    #3
    slumped
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,946 ✭✭✭slumped


    Hanley wrote: »
    Just a heads up guys.

    There's just after being an interview on RTE one. They had somone from the IMB, a doctor and some other muppet on it.

    Apparently BSN NO-Explode is a medicine these days. As is Animal M-stak. both of which I've seen for sale in several places around the city.

    From the tone of the voice of the IMB person, I think it would be wise to be careful. Looks like there's another major **** storm coming.

    Or see this other thread on the subject

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055168034


  • Options
    #4
    Hanley
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 21,981 ✭✭✭✭Hanley


    slumped wrote: »
    Or see this other thread on the subject

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055168034

    Great, you got there before me. Well done on that!!


  • Options
    #5
    g'em
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,819 ✭✭✭✭g'em


    Hanley wrote: »
    Apparently BSN NO-Explode is a medicine these days. As is Animal M-stak. both of which I've seen for sale in several places around the city.
    It's the Vit B12 content
    Hanley wrote:
    From the tone of the voice of the IMB person, I think it would be wise to be careful. Looks like there's another major **** storm coming.
    There certainly is. Later this month there'll be voting on a new European directive to ban supplements and products that essentially contain over the RDA of all vitamins. Products like Multibionta will be illegal!! :rolleyes:

    Recommended Daily Allowances though are only guidelines to prevent you becoming ill, not to maitnian general wellbeing. To put it into perspective, the RDA of Vit C is enough to prevent you getting scurvy, but not enough to support your immune system.

    This is an issue that's been ongoing for a few years now, more about it here:
    http://www.lef.org/magazine/mag2003/2003_preprint_eu_01.htm
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/4670971.stm
    http://www.i-sis.org.uk/vitamins2.php

    I'm trying to find more up-to-date sources as the directive is due to get a ruling this month. I'll get back to it...


  • Options
    #6
    g'em
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,819 ✭✭✭✭g'em


    threads merged btw...


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #7
    walt0r
    Closed Accounts Posts: 615 ✭✭✭walt0r


    ****in bastids better not ban my universal animal stak or ill start breakin some heads up in this place


  • Options
    #8
    WHIP IT!
    Registered Users Posts: 5,881 ✭✭✭WHIP IT!


    F*ck sake... So will things like No-Xplode and Maxi Muscle ProMax require a f*cking prescription now??

    What kinda timescale are talking about if this legislation does come in?


  • Options
    #9
    g'em
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,819 ✭✭✭✭g'em


    Well that's where it gets a bit confusing.

    On 16/10/2007 the IMB published the: IMB Terms of Reference and Rules of Procedure of the Herbal Medicines Subcommittee i.e. they're gearing up for dealing with herbal medicines on a much bigger scale (possibly to reinforce EU directives?).

    On 31/8/2007 the IMB released the following:
    The national regulations required to implement the Traditional Herbal Medicinal Products Directive [2004/24/EC] are now in place. The Medicinal Products (Control of Placing on the Market) Regulations 2007 [SI No. 540 of 2007] came into force on the 23rd July 2007. Following on from this the IMB is pleased to announce that the Traditional Herbal Medicinal Products Registration Scheme is now available for applicants to apply for certificates of traditional-use for relevant herbal medicinal products.

    after trawling through pages of EU dircetive beurocracy crap I *think* what's now happening is that products that were on the shelves on or before April 2004 will now have until April 2011 to alter teh products to meet with new regulations. What, exactly those new regulations actually stipulate I still don't know.

    There's also a problem (from what I can see) in that exercise supplements are seen as food supplements in some cases and herbal supplements in others, so they can fall under both headings and are subject to both sets of restrictions.

    But to answer your question... the IMB are cracking down on it NOW.


  • Options
    #10
    LegacyUser
    Registered Users Posts: 166,026 ✭✭✭✭LegacyUser


    And may I ask which ****ing doctor is going to give me a perscription of no-xplode!?!?!!? Absolutely nobody! So i may as well just buy 30 of them now and stash them in my bedroom.


  • Options
    #11
    tribulus
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,635 ✭✭✭tribulus


    It's very frustrating, I'm continually amazed how some people can be so ignorant about these things, I know it's an EU Directive but someone in the first place had to complain about all these "medicines", probably without much of a clue as to what they really do.

    Just last week I got my cholesterol checked and because my HDL was supposedly a bit low (it wasn't) the person suggested I do less exercise :eek:

    The next i was speaking to a doctor who's in good nick himself and told him the numbers, he said she was talking rubbish basically! // end barely related rant.

    Lets just all get some gear....


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #12
    LegacyUser
    Registered Users Posts: 166,026 ✭✭✭✭LegacyUser


    This primarily because kids under 18 are buying these things...there not for them anyway.


  • Options
    #13
    pwd
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,284 ✭✭✭pwd


    I'd tend to believe the article saying it's primarily because they want to make money selling them as medicines tbh. If they wanted to stop kids from using them they could just put an age restriction on them.
    Are they going to require a prescription then, or be sold OTC the way glucosamine is sold now in Denmark according to that article?


  • Options
    #14
    Dragan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,497 ✭✭✭✭Dragan


    Come on guys, the world is run by the pharmaceutical companies. Have you ever seen Pfizer Whey????

    They don't want you fit and healthy, they want you sick and taking drugs, or at least taking drugs because you THINK your sick.

    IMB restrictions are a gateway to D-bol!!!! :D


  • Options
    #15
    Boru.
    Closed Accounts Posts: 775 ✭✭✭Boru.


    The IMB derective that G'em sighted above directly affects me as Traditional Chinese Medical Practitioner. I frequently prescriber herbal medicines and formulas in my medical practice and am qualified to write prescriptions to that effect. Of course everyone in the Chinese Medical Community is wondering how this will effect our practice and our representative body will be contacting the IMB in regards to the matter.

    The major problem is that they have little or no knowledge about the use of Traditional Herbs and base there statements on hearsay and conjecture. A great example of which was the banning of MaHuang - which was shown in later studies to have absolutely no relation to the heart attacks it was claimed to have cause.

    With that said, if it all works out, I'll prescribe you No-Explode Cheesdude. ;)


  • Options
    #16
    slumped
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,946 ✭✭✭slumped


    I think it's a good thing that some sort of regualtion is being implemented on these sorts of things.

    The IMB obviously have their reasons, and as they are professionals and know what they are on about then we should accept it and move on.

    S


  • Options
    #17
    g'em
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,819 ✭✭✭✭g'em


    slumped wrote: »
    The IMB obviously have their reasons, and as they are professionals and know what they are on about then we should accept it and move on.
    You realise that if this if passed you won't be able to take the high dosage Vit B complex supplements (you mentioned it in the Lipotrim thread) anymore? Multibionta, Centrum, or any other supps containing over 100% of the RDA will all be banned.

    I'm all for regulation, but it's the misinformed banning of otherwise hugely beneficial supplements that gets on my nerves.
    pwd wrote:
    I'd tend to believe the article saying it's primarily because they want to make money selling them as medicines tbh.
    Bingo.


  • Options
    #18
    ali.c
    Registered Users Posts: 1,022 ✭✭✭ali.c


    slumped wrote: »
    I think it's a good thing that some sort of regualtion is being implemented on these sorts of things.

    The IMB obviously have their reasons, and as they are professionals and know what they are on about then we should accept it and move on.

    S

    Oh the irony, you defended your right to self-prescribe lipotrim and now your defending the right of the IMB to restrict the self prescription of vitamins and other supplements?

    Sorry but that is nothing if not ironic. Anyhow the RDA is the minimum amount of vitamins one needs not the maximum also the requirement for dietary supplements varys with different stages in life and activity levels.

    I think personally it means more money for pharmacutical companies and the medical profession and less for us.


  • Options
    #19
    fatal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,424 ✭✭✭fatal


    slumped wrote: »
    I think it's a good thing that some sort of regualtion is being implemented on these sorts of things.

    The IMB obviously have their reasons, and as they are professionals and know what they are on about then we should accept it and move on.

    S

    care to share some of those reasons with us?


  • Options
    #20
    yomchi
    Registered Users Posts: 4,621 ✭✭✭yomchi


    NO-Explode now half price in Pro-Nutrition :D

    This has been coming for a while and to be honest the raid in Capel street didn't help the cause at all. That raid it seems was the first step in the new offensive by the IMB.


  • Options
    #21
    slumped
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,946 ✭✭✭slumped


    fatal wrote: »
    care to share some of those reasons with us?

    I dont work for the IMB


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #22
    slumped
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,946 ✭✭✭slumped


    ali.c wrote: »
    Oh the irony, you defended your right to self-prescribe lipotrim and now your defending the right of the IMB to restrict the self prescription of vitamins and other supplements?

    Sorry but that is nothing if not ironic. Anyhow the RDA is the minimum amount of vitamins one needs not the maximum also the requirement for dietary supplements varys with different stages in life and activity levels.

    I think personally it means more money for pharmacutical companies and the medical profession and less for us.

    IMB looked at Lipotrim and did not find it to contain anything it shouldnt.


  • Options
    #23
    ali.c
    Registered Users Posts: 1,022 ✭✭✭ali.c


    slumped wrote: »
    IMB looked at Lipotrim and did not find it to contain anything it shouldnt.


    Yeah so according to the IMB a very low calorie diet is grand to be self-prescribed but vitamins arent? Really confidence inspiring.


  • Options
    #24
    slumped
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,946 ✭✭✭slumped


    g'em wrote: »
    You realise that if this if passed you won't be able to take the high dosage Vit B complex supplements .

    I can still take them. I can still order them from UK suppliers.

    Same as anyoe else - let the IMB do what they want - does not mean there arent ways around it.

    S


  • Options
    #25
    g'em
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,819 ✭✭✭✭g'em


    slumped wrote: »
    I can still take them. I can still order them from UK suppliers.
    Not if the passed EU directive is enforced, it's European-wide, hence the outcry. The IMB are just the Irish enforcers and they're doing it fast. And customs will get their mits on it if it comes from elsewhere.

    Sure, there's ways around these things, but that's not the point. The ban shouldn't be there in the first place.


  • Options
    #26
    slumped
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,946 ✭✭✭slumped


    g'em wrote: »
    Not if the passed EU directive is enforced, it's European-wide, hence the outcry.

    Sorry, my bad.


  • Options
    #27
    g'em
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,819 ✭✭✭✭g'em


    slumped wrote: »
    Sorry, my bad.

    No worries :D But that's why there's such a kick-up about it, and there's oodles of petitions around about it (obviously when I say oodles I mean in health food shops and the like, not on the streets :o).

    And this has just been posted on Nutraingredients.com a website that covers news about supps and health products in Europe, so consumer pressure IS working...
    nutraingredients.com wrote:
    CHC blows whistle on Commission over max levels
    By Alex McNally

    19/10/2007- The European Commission will be reported to the ombudsman for showing "intransigence" and being unwilling to listen to demands to keep high amounts for vitamins and minerals when it comes to setting maximum levels.

    This move is the latest attempt by the pressure group Consumers for Health Choice (CHC) to raise the importance of keeping high doses. The Commission is currently in the process of harmonizing levels across the bloc, under the Food Supplements Directive.

    Member states at the moment vary dramatically on maximum and minimum levels in minerals and vitamins, which would come to an end once Europe-wide unification is imposed.

    But many groups fear a heavy-handed approach could damage trade and consumer choice.

    At an annual parliamentary reception in the UK on Wednesday, CHC chairman Mike Peet said the group had been given "encouraging" support but added: "The road to Hell is paved with good intentions and well-meaning platitudes."

    Peet said: "The threat from Europe to the continued availability of hundreds of safe and popular higher potency supplements remains as great, if not greater, than it has ever been."

    The reception was in the House of Commons to an audience of MPs, Peers, manufacturers, retailers, regulators and consumers.

    Peet blasted the Commission, and said that officials "have demonstrated intransigence of thinking and an unwillingness to listen," and said the group will now report the Commission to the ombudsman.

    He added: "The situation that has emerged in relation to the Food Supplements Directive is indicative of all the worst aspects of the European Union - an indifferent, aloof and unresponsive institution, unaccountable to and unheeding of the freedoms of individual citizens, determined to foist a one-size-fits-all approach on diverse national traditions."

    In the past few months the pressure group has upped the ante, with tactics including an open letter to commission president José Manuel Barroso in an advert in the European Voice newspaper. In the letter Peet accused the Commission of being "aloof, distant and unresponsive" if it takes an overly restrictive approach.

    The group is showing no signs of giving up and said it will launch a series of advertisements, in many different languages, in specialist consumer and practitioner magazines around Europe.

    This would not be the first time CHC have threatened to report the commission to the ombudsman. A previous attempt in August failed as the group had not tried to resolve the difference with the commission.

    An ombudsman spokesperson told NutraIngredients.com this attempt was dismissed as "inadmissible."

    The ombudsman has the power to investigate complaints about maladministration in the institutions and bodies of the European Union.

    Maladministration occurs if an institution fails to act in accordance with the law, fails to respect the principles of good administration, or violates human rights.

    This can include administrative irregularities, abuse of power, failure to reply or unnecessary delay.


    Edit: and ironically enough there's an article on the front page discussing how Vit E supplements have been linked to reduced cardiac failure in diabetics...


  • Options
    #28
    Roper
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,448 ✭✭✭Roper


    I heard that creatine is a gateway drug to heroine....


  • Options
    #29
    Hanley
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 21,981 ✭✭✭✭Hanley


    Roper wrote: »
    I heard that creatine is a gateway drug to heroine....

    Man that's nothing. Heroin's a gateway to NO-Explode.


  • Options
    #30
    JM MARCONI
    Closed Accounts Posts: 402 ✭✭JM MARCONI


    I was just at The Square earlier and Holland & Barrett have a poster in the window and a petition you can sign regarding this matter.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #31
    dudara
    Registered Users Posts: 33,519 ✭✭✭✭dudara


    JM MARCONI wrote: »
    I was just at The Square earlier and Holland & Barrett have a poster in the window and a petition you can sign regarding this matter.

    I actually wrote on the petition how I thought it was reprehensible of H&B to essentially sh*tstir about this. I have no particular view one way or the other on the topic, but H&B were asking people to sign without providing any literature/studies to (a) show that the EU regulations were about and (b) provide a counter argument as to why you should sign their petition (other than the argument that the EU is BAD!)


Advertisement