Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

What happened there?

Options
  • 19-07-2007 1:46pm
    #1
    mountainyman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,268 ✭✭✭


    Hi,

    I'm just wondering if there has been a conscious shift in policy on the AH board?

    I was banned for the below post:
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/archive/index.php/t-2054986346.html

    Now the post may have been ill advised, islamophopic, moronic, muppetesque and tardlike or strongly tardlike but it is as nothing compared to pretty much any comment about Roma people currently on AH.

    Has there been a policy change or are Roma regarded as people about whom one can say pretty much anything?

    MM
    Post edited by Shield on


«13

Comments

  • Options
    #2
    Fysh
    Moderators, Arts Moderators, Regional Abroad Moderators Posts: 11,019 Mod ✭✭✭✭Fysh


    I couldn't say for certain, not being an AH mod, but I personally can't see "they let other people be discriminating and inflammatory about other races" being accepted as a valid reason for unbanning you or reinstating your access (if it hasn't been already).

    Other people being racist is not an excuse for you to be, any more so than other people breaking the law doesn't give you free reign to follow suit without consequences.


  • Options
    #3
    mountainyman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,268 ✭✭✭mountainyman


    Fysh wrote:


    Other people being racist is not an excuse for you to be, any more so than other people breaking the law doesn't give you free reign to follow suit without consequences.

    I fully accept that. My own discussion post is inappropriate. I am often quite tongue in cheek in ordinary non internet based conversation, but I might well have qualified what I wrote there had I said it in the ordinary way (not on the Internet). Had I done that in the discussion post above I probably wouldn't have been banned. Of course on the internet you have a few minutes at work, you post something (I think the above was before work) and then it is there in black and grey. If you post in haste and say something offensive and stupid you are ostracised (appropriately).

    This is more of a plea to the moderators not to allow fairly random attacks on the Roma to become the norm.

    MM


  • Options
    #4
    the1andonly1
    Registered Users Posts: 224 ✭✭the1andonly1


    EDIT: I cant read

    :)


  • Options
    #5
    Fysh
    Moderators, Arts Moderators, Regional Abroad Moderators Posts: 11,019 Mod ✭✭✭✭Fysh


    mountainyman wrote:
    This is more of a plea to the moderators not to allow fairly random attacks on the Roma to become the norm.

    The best thing way you can help with this is to make extensive use of the "report post" button - AH is heavily moderated but gets a hell of a lot of traffic, so I'd imagine it's daunting enough to keep up with the reported content, without then having to worry if there's more offensive material slipping under the radar unreported.


  • Options
    #6
    Terry
    Registered Users Posts: 26,061 ✭✭✭✭Terry


    In your thread you called for the closure of an islamic school.
    There are plenty of schools in this country which are based around one religion or another.

    In the threads on the Roma people camping on the m50, people are calling for their deportation because they are here merely to freeload.
    Those in islamic schools are hardly here freeloading. They are being educated and will then get jobs and add to the economy.

    It is a dodgy subject and the threads are being monitored closely.
    As Fysh said, use the report post function if you feel aggrieved.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #7
    popebenny16
    Registered Users Posts: 2,461 ✭✭✭popebenny16


    I think the reason for the ban might be that this school is the same as any catholic school - it odnt mean it is an extremist school like the ones they are concerned about in the UK. Maybe the O/P mixed the two up.

    In any event, why didnt you PM the Mod there (wasnt it Terry) and chat to him about it? However, I like feedback threads like these as it shows the reasoning behind band and deletions without all the cats.


  • Options
    #8
    _feedback_
    Registered Users Posts: 4,269 ✭✭✭_feedback_


    popebenny16 wrote:
    I think the reason for the ban might be that this school is the same as any catholic school - it odnt mean it is an extremist school like the ones they are concerned about in the UK. Maybe the O/P mixed the two up.

    In any event, why didnt you PM the Mod there (wasnt it Terry) and chat to him about it? However, I like feedback threads like these as it shows the reasoning behind band and deletions without all the cats.

    I don't think the OP is questioning his/her ban your holiness... he/she is just comparing both and wondering why the current thread isn't leading to similar bannings... Terry seems to have answered it 100%


  • Options
    #9
    Hobbes
    Registered Users Posts: 21,264 ✭✭✭✭Hobbes


    Had avoided AH for some time (because nothing of note in it for a while). Recently back and it has turned into what can be best described as SF-lite.

    Sad thing is some of the threads start off well and totally derail into SF type posts. For example the "Balloon to a girl scam" thread.

    I do kind of agree with MM.


  • Options
    #10
    Terry
    Registered Users Posts: 26,061 ✭✭✭✭Terry


    I haven't really been around much the past few months.
    Would you care to expand on your comments Hobbes?

    A few links perhaps.

    EDIT: That came across as a bit smart arsed.
    Not my intention.
    I'm genuinely curious as to what you are talking about.


  • Options
    #11
    Hobbes
    Registered Users Posts: 21,264 ✭✭✭✭Hobbes


    Terry wrote:
    EDIT: That came across as a bit smart arsed.
    Not my intention.
    I'm genuinely curious as to what you are talking about.

    It wasn't my intention either. In fairness to the Mods you do catch the obvious ones.

    I don't have the link but someone was venting about some moron giving his young daughter a balloon then taking it back when they couldn't extract 5 euros off them. McD came to the rescue and gave her a balloon to stop her crying. That degenerated into Roma bashing, with a bit of Romanian bashing sprinkled in.

    The Terrorist threat thread started off well but has now degenerated into anti-Muslim SF type crap.

    Other threads seem to be anti-something. From trans-genders to fat women.

    Just doesn't make for interesting reading as a forum. Kind of why I unsubb'ed from it a while back. Shame I can't hook a feedreader to auto filter the crap. :)


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #12
    Kintarō Hattori
    Registered Users Posts: 14,971 ✭✭✭✭Kintarō Hattori


    mountainyman wrote:

    I was banned for the below post:
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/archive/index.php/t-2054986346.html

    Now the post may have been ill advised, islamophopic, moronic, muppetesque and tardlike or strongly tardlike but it is as nothing compared to pretty much any comment about Roma people currently on AH.
    mountainyman wrote:
    There is an Islamic school in Clonskeagh in Dublin. It should be closed at once.
    Anyone sending their kids to such a school is a religious nutter
    The parents have immigrated to Ireland and the kids have to assimilate
    Anything could be going on
    How can one lobby to hav esuch a school closed.

    I'm surprised you really had to ask the question MM. It's a shocking post and I'm not surprised you were banned for it.


  • Options
    #13
    Kintarō Hattori
    Registered Users Posts: 14,971 ✭✭✭✭Kintarō Hattori


    Double Post - Apologies. Boards seems to be acting up.


  • Options
    #14
    mountainyman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,268 ✭✭✭mountainyman


    I wasn't contesting the ban (which was a year ago) and I don't see how that could be inferred from what I wrote above.

    Just find the anti Gypsy threads annoying.

    MM


  • Options
    #15
    mountainyman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,268 ✭✭✭mountainyman


    I don't think it is appropriate to discuss the merits of the post which incurred the banning given that it would be inappropriate for me to defend it on Feedback.
    Neither it is appropraite to discuss the merits and demerits of the Islamic school Clonskeagh, Islamic schooling in general, the traditionally Christian nature of Irish society, the rise of Islamophobia in Europe, the RIRB etc etc
    My question is simple 'are Gypsies a special category who can be attacked in the vilest terms?' .

    MM


  • Options
    #16
    OTK
    Closed Accounts Posts: 556 ✭✭✭OTK


    moral compass:
    Say what you like about the Roma, just don't criticise MCD.


  • Options
    #17
    Terry
    Registered Users Posts: 26,061 ✭✭✭✭Terry


    I banned someone a couple of hours ago from the terrorist thread for an anti-muslim rant. It was well deserved too.

    There were a couple of ridiculous posts made about fat women, but nothing beyond the usual AH crap and mainly from someone who has been treading a thin line with several mods for quite a while now. Same goes for the transgender one.

    The balloon thread was obviously there while I was away and is buried now.
    Should it resurface, I will take appropriate action.
    mountainyman wrote:
    My question is simple 'are Gypsies a special category who can be attacked in the vilest terms?' .

    Firstly, I agree with you that this is not the place to discuss your previous ban.
    That's done and over with.

    To answer your question (from my perspective anyway), I feel that this particular group of Roma are merely chancers and I feel quite dubious about their motive re: the place they chose to camp.
    Most of the posts in this thread are of the same opinion.
    There have been one or two that crossed a line and I will be watching it very closely, as I'm sure the other AH mods will.
    I cannot speak for the other AH mods. They may feel differently to me on this subject and may take action where I wouldn't.
    Again, the report post button is your friend.


    OTK, apples and oranges.

    I'll be quite happy to answer any other questions.


  • Options
    #18
    Franz Ferdinand
    Closed Accounts Posts: 58 ✭✭Franz Ferdinand


    I've got one.

    Where do you derive the moral authority to judge others as 'racist', while simultaneously making a blatantly racist remark against Roma people?

    This whole racist cat-calling thing is just a handy excuse to ban anyone who gets the better of you in debate, or doesn't share your own narrow minded world-view.

    It was me you banned from the After Hours thread on this flimsy excuse (racism) - simply because I called for integration in education. :rolleyes:

    Banning religious schools has nothing to do with racism - in fact it is exactly the polar opposite, because it is intended to STOP racism. To STOP muslim children from being indoctrinated into the truly racist outlook of sectarian Islamist teaching.

    Why do you consider it 'racist' to require muslim children to mix with Irish children in school?

    Your reaction was knee-jerk, and poorly thought out. You jumped at the chance to shut down opposition opinion. Apparently having an opinion is against the rules - I'm hoping for a link to that rule by the way.:confused:


  • Options
    #19
    Stark
    Registered Users Posts: 20,938 ✭✭✭✭Stark


    Franz Ferdinald wrote:
    Where do you derive the moral authority to judge others as 'racist', while simultaneously making a blatantly racist remark against Roma people?

    Point out Terry's racist remark because I don't see any in this thread.

    ⛥ ̸̱̼̞͛̀̓̈́͘#C̶̼̭͕̎̿͝R̶̦̮̜̃̓͌O̶̬͙̓͝W̸̜̥͈̐̾͐Ṋ̵̲͔̫̽̎̚͠ͅT̸͓͒͐H̵͔͠È̶̖̳̘͍͓̂W̴̢̋̈͒͛̋I̶͕͑͠T̵̻͈̜͂̇Č̵̤̟̑̾̂̽H̸̰̺̏̓ ̴̜̗̝̱̹͛́̊̒͝⛥



  • Options
    #20
    Terry
    Registered Users Posts: 26,061 ✭✭✭✭Terry


    Stark, I believe h was referring to the Roma threads in AH.
    Link.
    Decide for yourself.

    Franz Ferdinand, your comment in that thread did not call for the closing of all religious schools.
    link
    Franz Ferdinand wrote:
    1) Ban muslim religious schools. We have to force integration on immigrants if necessary.
    This was the straw that broke the camels back.

    You will notice in the reply to the PM I just sent that I did not call you racist.
    I called your remarks racist.


  • Options
    #21
    stovelid
    Closed Accounts Posts: 27,252 ✭✭✭✭stovelid


    Hobbes wrote:
    Had avoided AH for some time (because nothing of note in it for a while). Recently back and it has turned into what can be best described as SF-lite.


    I think a serious cull is needed in After Hours at the minute. I can't begin to think how hard it must be to mod.

    BTW - what is SF Hobbes?


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #22
    Terry
    Registered Users Posts: 26,061 ✭✭✭✭Terry


    stovelid wrote:
    I think a serious cull is needed in After Hours at the minute. I can't begin to think how hard it must be to mod.

    BTW - what is SF Hobbes?
    Ourselves alone.


  • Options
    #23
    Franz Ferdinand
    Closed Accounts Posts: 58 ✭✭Franz Ferdinand


    Terry wrote:
    You will notice in the reply to the PM I just sent that I did not call you racist.
    I called your remarks racist.
    Please explain how someone who is not Racist can make a racist remark? Can a person who makes racist remarks remain non-racist? You are pussyfooting. Why not just come out and say what you really mean?
    Stark wrote:
    Point out Terry's racist remark because I don't see any in this thread.
    Terry identified a group of 'chancers' by their race. What possible relevance did their race have in commenting about the annoyance they seem to cause him? Their Race is totally and utterly irrelevant and beside the point.

    Ergo - the comment is Racist.
    And that would make Terry a Racist (by his own definition).


  • Options
    #24
    Stark
    Registered Users Posts: 20,938 ✭✭✭✭Stark


    Franz Ferdinald wrote:
    Terry identified a group of 'chancers' by their race. What possible relevance did their race have in commenting about the annoyance they seem to cause him? Their Race is totally and utterly irrelevant and beside the point.

    I normally can't stand this emoticon, but since it's a special occasion:

    :rolleyes:

    Seriously, your argument is about as valid as "You're a racist if you call a black person an asshole".

    ⛥ ̸̱̼̞͛̀̓̈́͘#C̶̼̭͕̎̿͝R̶̦̮̜̃̓͌O̶̬͙̓͝W̸̜̥͈̐̾͐Ṋ̵̲͔̫̽̎̚͠ͅT̸͓͒͐H̵͔͠È̶̖̳̘͍͓̂W̴̢̋̈͒͛̋I̶͕͑͠T̵̻͈̜͂̇Č̵̤̟̑̾̂̽H̸̰̺̏̓ ̴̜̗̝̱̹͛́̊̒͝⛥



  • Options
    #25
    nesf
    Registered Users Posts: 27,645 ✭✭✭✭nesf


    Hobbes wrote:
    It wasn't my intention either. In fairness to the Mods you do catch the obvious ones.

    We are but a paper shield against an inferno tbh.


    Define "SF type posts". All (normal) people see as representatives are Roma begging on the street, that will naturally colour people's viewpoints. I'm not going to ban people for saying deport the ones that beg or ones that complain about Roma who beg, those are reasonable enough viewpoints. It's people calling for violence etc that are the problem and we remove all of those we find.


  • Options
    #26
    nesf
    Registered Users Posts: 27,645 ✭✭✭✭nesf


    Franz Ferdinand wrote:
    Please explain how someone who is not Racist can make a racist remark?

    Because it could be scripted, it could be a lie or could be designed to incite anger in others while not actually being a belief of the person saying it etc.


  • Options
    #27
    nesf
    Registered Users Posts: 27,645 ✭✭✭✭nesf


    stovelid wrote:
    BTW - what is SF Hobbes?

    Stormfront. It's a neo-nazi forum site essentially. It makes AH look like a gathering of the Residents against Racism hardcores.


  • Options
    #28
    tallaght01
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,778 ✭✭✭tallaght01


    mountainyman wrote:
    I fully accept that. My own discussion post is inappropriate. I am often quite tongue in cheek in ordinary non internet based conversation, but I might well have qualified what I wrote there had I said it in the ordinary way (not on the Internet). Had I done that in the discussion post above I probably wouldn't have been banned. Of course on the internet you have a few minutes at work, you post something (I think the above was before work) and then it is there in black and grey. If you post in haste and say something offensive and stupid you are ostracised (appropriately).

    This is more of a plea to the moderators not to allow fairly random attacks on the Roma to become the norm.

    MM

    I sympathise with you MM. Moderators on an internet forum are unlikely to have the skills neccesary to facilitate conversation where there's a fine line between racism and having a somewhat controversial viewpoint.
    Therefore, the easiest thing for them to do is to lock threads and ban people. I think most people agree that too many people get banned and too many threads get locked, particularly in AH.
    BUT, (and no offence intended to any individuals) moderators are not picked for those skills. They're people who've been on boards for ages. It takes a particular type of person to understand and tolerate an array of viewpoints, regardless of how unpalatable we may find them.
    That's fine. Boards isn't some kind of influential think-tank. It's not a university. It's a place where a particular demographic spend a lot of time, and most of the content is harmless, benign and light-hearted.
    What i'm really getting at is that you're never going to get the type of open and totally honest debate here that you wil get outside the internet.
    That's not a criticism. I enjoy boards for what I use it for...somewhere to discuss the odd medical issue.
    But if you want real debate, host a dinner party or something :P


  • Options
    #29
    Stark
    Registered Users Posts: 20,938 ✭✭✭✭Stark


    tallaght01 wrote:
    I sympathise with you MM. Moderators on an internet forum are unlikely to have the skills neccesary to facilitate conversation where there's a fine line between racism and having a somewhat controversial viewpoint.

    I position myself firmly on the side against the "boy who cried racism" people. But I have to say that anyone with intelligence greater than that of a gnat could see mountainyman's post for what it was.

    ⛥ ̸̱̼̞͛̀̓̈́͘#C̶̼̭͕̎̿͝R̶̦̮̜̃̓͌O̶̬͙̓͝W̸̜̥͈̐̾͐Ṋ̵̲͔̫̽̎̚͠ͅT̸͓͒͐H̵͔͠È̶̖̳̘͍͓̂W̴̢̋̈͒͛̋I̶͕͑͠T̵̻͈̜͂̇Č̵̤̟̑̾̂̽H̸̰̺̏̓ ̴̜̗̝̱̹͛́̊̒͝⛥



  • Options
    #30
    nesf
    Registered Users Posts: 27,645 ✭✭✭✭nesf


    tallaght01 wrote:
    I think most people agree that too many people get banned and too many threads get locked, particularly in AH.

    Out of interest, how many people do you think I've banned in the last month?


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #31
    tallaght01
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,778 ✭✭✭tallaght01


    nesf wrote:
    Out of interest, how many people do you think I've banned in the last month?

    Your personal ban-rate is probably the last statistic I will ever feel compelled to research. However, the amount of locked posts is a bit of a wind-up. It's one of the reasons I rarely use the forum any more. Though I'm sure many ppl would regard that as a positive step :P

    PS, the fact that we are having this discussion does pretty much illustrate that A) the most insignificant parts of what people post get the most attention and B) This is not the epicentre for fine debate that the OP is looking for


Advertisement