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Leinster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread II

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Comments

  • #652
    Hype710
    Registered Users Posts: 1,001 ✭✭✭Hype710


    O'Shea will become quite important over the next few weeks. Defence is probably the best aspect of his game and he'll need it; I've always felt Macken's defence is poor - positionally he can be all at sea.


  • #653
    profitius
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,976 ✭✭✭profitius


    irishbucsfan wrote: »
    Leinster teams are beaten by scorelines like that every year. Particularly against Premiership sides.

    The two teams had different goals. Leinster have the benefit of playing in a league that means nothing. Northampton need to come out of the gates much stronger, whereas Leinster's preseason effectively runs right up until the first Heineken Cup game.

    I would disagree with that statement. The disappointment in losing the final last season shows that the league means something.


  • #654
    Tox56
    Registered Users Posts: 11,636 ✭✭✭✭Tox56


    irishbucsfan wrote: »
    Leinster teams are beaten by scorelines like that every year. Particularly against Premiership sides.

    The two teams had different goals. Leinster have the benefit of playing in a league that means nothing. Northampton need to come out of the gates much stronger, whereas Leinster's preseason effectively runs right up until the first Heineken Cup game.

    If AP teams don't experiment in games like these when will they experiment?

    There seems to be a culture thing about it too. They aren't going to learn a huge deal by hammering visiting youth teams with their 1st choice XV, and from what I've seen, Leicester Harlequins and Northampton all put out close to 1st choice teams yesterday.


  • #655
    GerM
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,592 ✭✭✭GerM


    The AP has an A league as well as the LV Cup. Both provide the sides with a good number of games to bring through young players throughout the season. The pre-season friendlies are used for the senior side to shake off the rust and hit the ground running from week 1. With those games, they probably have more opportunity than Irish sides to bring through young players although the quality of the Pro12 is far higher for those players on the cusp of breaking into the senior match day squad.


  • #656
    Heroditas
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,558 ✭✭✭Heroditas


    Tox56 wrote: »
    AP teams don't experiment in games like these when will they experiment?

    There seems to be a culture thing about it too. They aren't going to learn a huge deal by hammering visiting youth teams with their 1st choice XV, and from what I've seen, Leicester Harlequins and Northampton all put out close to 1st choice teams yesterday.


    Just wait until they do poorly in the HEC again and they start whining about the number of games they have to play!!


  • #657
    Tox56
    Registered Users Posts: 11,636 ✭✭✭✭Tox56


    GerM wrote: »
    The AP has an A league as well as the LV Cup. Both provide the sides with a good number of games to bring through young players throughout the season. The pre-season friendlies are used for the senior side to shake off the rust and hit the ground running from week 1. With those games, they probably have more opportunity than Irish sides to bring through young players although the quality of the Pro12 is far higher for those players on the cusp of breaking into the senior match day squad.

    I forgot about the LV Cup alright (although the B&I cup serves a similar purpose), but they complain about having to use the first-team too often, and then send their best players out for meaningless pre-season games.


  • #658
    irishbucsfan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    profitius wrote: »
    I would disagree with that statement. The disappointment in losing the final last season shows that the league means something.

    And Edinburgh finishing 11th?

    "Nothing" is a pretty ridiculous overstatement, I'll agree. But it means very little in comparison to the AP for fairly obvious reasons. Irish teams treat the first few weeks as an extended preseason, O'Gara even mentioned it.


  • #659
    irishbucsfan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    Tox56 wrote: »
    If AP teams don't experiment in games like these when will they experiment?

    There seems to be a culture thing about it too. They aren't going to learn a huge deal by hammering visiting youth teams with their 1st choice XV, and from what I've seen, Leicester Harlequins and Northampton all put out close to 1st choice teams yesterday.

    Leicester, Harlequins and Northampton are at a different stage though. They have to be ready to go very soon. They don't have the luxuries we do to play academy back rows at 12 because they have to be much tighter right out the gate.

    The management of the provinces knew all this when they scheduled games against English/French opposition. It's a great test for our young lads and lets us see what they're like in this situation, and it's a much better experience for them. As they say, you learn a page from a victory and a book from a defeat.


  • #660
    .ak
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,308 ✭✭✭✭.ak


    irishbucsfan wrote: »
    And Edinburgh finishing 11th?

    "Nothing" is a pretty ridiculous overstatement, I'll agree. But it means very little in comparison to the AP for fairly obvious reasons. Irish teams treat the first few weeks as an extended preseason, O'Gara even mentioned it.

    What I think ROG was alluding too is given the length of the season versus the 'instant knock out' nature of the H-Cup you're afforded the opportunity to try new things in the opening games of the league.

    Relegation or not, how many rounds are in the league now, 22? So most of the top 5 teams can afford to take it handy coming into the league as they'll know they can access it better down the road, especially with returning internationals.

    I would imagine Madigan or even Joe Schmidt would strongly disagree with the notion that the first games are not important however.


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  • #661
    thomond2006
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 45,433 ✭✭✭✭thomond2006


    The playoffs mean a huge deal but the regular season is treated as a clear B league compared to the Heineken Cup.


  • #662
    irishbucsfan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    .ak wrote: »
    What I think ROG was alluding too is given the length of the season versus the 'instant knock out' nature of the H-Cup you're afforded the opportunity to try new things in the opening games of the league.

    Relegation or not, how many rounds are in the league now, 22? So most of the top 5 teams can afford to take it handy coming into the league as they'll know they can access it better down the road, especially with returning internationals.

    I would imagine Madigan or even Joe Schmidt would strongly disagree with the notion that the first games are not important however.

    No that's not what he meant. He said he doesn't care as much about the games and he didn't even start practicing his kicking until the Heineken Cup came back around. Can't remember where the interview was.

    Fair enough if you disagree. I think it makes more sense than just believing they do it to get some sort of cheap win for their egoes sake or whatever else. These people are not idiots, they are preparing the best they can just like our guys are. They're just operating under different circumstances and have different targets to hit.


  • #663
    Tox56
    Registered Users Posts: 11,636 ✭✭✭✭Tox56


    irishbucsfan wrote: »
    No that's not what he meant. He said he doesn't care as much about the games and he didn't even start practicing his kicking until the Heineken Cup came back around. Can't remember where the interview was.

    Fair enough if you disagree. I think it makes more sense than just believing they do it to get some sort of cheap win for their egoes sake or whatever else. These people are not idiots, they are preparing the best they can just like our guys are. They're just operating under different circumstances and have different targets to hit.

    Who was suggesting that? :confused:

    I understand they want to start the season as well as possible, but I think they should try and experiement a little while they have the chance in these pre-season games. As they say themselves, the first-team will be required to play a lot during the season. Leicester showed last year that you can recover from even the worst possible start.


  • #664
    irishbucsfan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    Tox56 wrote: »
    Who was suggesting that? :confused:

    I understand they want to start the season as well as possible, but I think they should try and experiement a little while they have the chance in these pre-season games. As they say themselves, the first-team will be required to play a lot during the season. Leicester showed last year that you can recover from even the worst possible start.

    Why do you think they put out the first team then?


  • #665
    Tox56
    Registered Users Posts: 11,636 ✭✭✭✭Tox56


    irishbucsfan wrote: »
    Why do you think they put out the first team then?

    I know they did it so they could start the season well, but I think they would have learned more from fielding a more experimental team. But I'm not a Northampton fan so I don't really care, from a Leinster POV we would probably have been hammered anyway.


  • #666
    markest
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 267 ✭✭markest


    There were a lot of new players and players coming back from injury in the Northampton squad and i doubt the coaches know what the starting line up will be yet.
    Friendlies on Thurs v Moseley and then Edinburgh on Friday will help to decide the team v Gloucester in the league.


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  • #667
    Podge_irl
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 27,288 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    irishbucsfan wrote: »
    No that's not what he meant. He said he doesn't care as much about the games and he didn't even start practicing his kicking until the Heineken Cup came back around. Can't remember where the interview was.

    I remember the interview all right. I would be reticent to use it as an example of how everyone treats the league however because, to put it bluntly, its ROG.


  • #668
    jm08
    Registered Users Posts: 11,301 ✭✭✭✭jm08


    Podge_irl wrote: »
    I remember the interview all right. I would be reticent to use it as an example of how everyone treats the league however because, to put it bluntly, its ROG.

    O'Gara changed his technique to try and get more distance in his kicks in the start of the '09-10 season. One game was against the Dragons where Munster easily won with a try bonus point win and the other game was against Leinster which Munster lost 30-0. The next match was against Northampton in the HCup where he reverted back to his usual style, so he was hardly abusing the league. He was just stupid to mention it in the press in the first place.


  • #669
    totallegend
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,234 ✭✭✭totallegend


    There's a thread about the Rabo league and another thread about O'Gara's atrocious attitude to the league here:
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=63993433

    None of this relates to Leinster.


  • #670
    jacothelad
    Registered Users Posts: 5,933 ✭✭✭jacothelad


    jm08 wrote: »
    O'Gara changed his technique to try and get more distance in his kicks in the start of the '09-10 season. One game was against the Dragons where Munster easily won with a try bonus point win and the other game was against Leinster which Munster lost 30-0. The next match was against Northampton in the HCup where he reverted back to his usual style, so he was hardly abusing the league. He was just stupid to mention it in the press in the first place.
    Did he explain all this to you or are you just telling it as you saw it?


  • #671
    .ak
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,308 ✭✭✭✭.ak


    totallegend is right. Back on topic everyone.

    P.S: That topic is not ROG btw.


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  • #672
    molloyjh
    Registered Users Posts: 24,767 ✭✭✭✭molloyjh


    irishbucsfan wrote: »
    Why do you think they put out the first team then?

    Because they always do.

    This is something that really annoys me about the AP. They will consistantly play their strongest side all season, with the exception of the LV Cup for some, but not all, of the teams. This idea that they have to come into the season firing on all cylinders or else is total rubbish. Look at the Tigers last season. They had a woeful start losing 5 of their first 6 games, only beating Newcastle by a point. Yet they still made the final.

    The English clubs could play a few youngsters in the pre-season games. They choose not to. They could also play a few more youngsters in the smaller games. You don't need a full strength side against the likes of Newcastle for example. But again they choose first string more often than not. They then b!tch and moan about players being tired at the end of the season or about their lack of depth.

    Leinster certainly learned more at the weekend of the 2 teams. Not just that but they also ensured they were developing for the future. Somewhat forced by the IRFU though it may be it still leaves us far better off in the long run than Northampton.


  • #673
    CatFromHue
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 18,217 Mod ✭✭✭✭CatFromHue


    molloyjh wrote: »
    Because they always do.

    This is something that really annoys me about the AP. They will consistantly play their strongest side all season, with the exception of the LV Cup for some, but not all, of the teams. This idea that they have to come into the season firing on all cylinders or else is total rubbish. Look at the Tigers last season. They had a woeful start losing 5 of their first 6 games, only beating Newcastle by a point. Yet they still made the final.

    The English clubs could play a few youngsters in the pre-season games. They choose not to. They could also play a few more youngsters in the smaller games. You don't need a full strength side against the likes of Newcastle for example. But again they choose first string more often than not. They then b!tch and moan about players being tired at the end of the season or about their lack of depth.

    Leinster certainly learned more at the weekend of the 2 teams. Not just that but they also ensured they were developing for the future. Somewhat forced by the IRFU though it may be it still leaves us far better off in the long run than Northampton.

    If Leicester only lost 5 from the first 6 then they only lost 1 from the next 16. which is pretty impressive. At the start of last season they would have been severely weakened by RWC call ups while other teams wouldn't have been (I don't think Harlequins, Saracens, or Exeter for example have many international players or certainly nothing like Leicester have).


  • #674
    GerM
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,592 ✭✭✭GerM


    In fairness, you do really need to hit the ground running in the AP. Leicester struggled last season because they had a large number of players in the WC. The likes of Quins profited hugely as they were relatively unaffected and that set the tone for their season. Leicester only managed to get into a home SF position in the last weeks of the season, playing catch up for their poor start. It was only a superb run that got them back to where they were; they lost one game after the WC (late October) until the final in May.


  • #675
    irishbucsfan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    GerM wrote: »
    In fairness, you do really need to hit the ground running in the AP. Leicester struggled last season because they had a large number of players in the WC. The likes of Quins profited hugely as they were relatively unaffected and that set the tone for their season. Leicester only managed to get into a home SF position in the last weeks of the season, playing catch up for their poor start. It was only a superb run that got them back to where they were; they lost one game after the WC (late October) until the final in May.

    And they also suffered in the H Cup because of that. Look at what happened to them in Ravenhill, where they were clearly not at their best. Again because they were playing 100% week-in week-out against an opposition who are conditioning their performances on a semesterised basis.

    There is a level of naivety in certain Irish fans who don't quite see the vast array different conditions that the different clubs from different countries operate under and think that Leinster do what they do because they're geniuses in a world of dopes.

    We field such experimental teams in August because there is less to gain from playing a 2nds team than playing a team filled with youths and we are targetting 100% "installation" (the new pro sports buzz word!) in mid October, rather than the 1st of September. If we were playing in a properly competitive domestic league and had a full squad to select from then things would be different.


  • #676
    molloyjh
    Registered Users Posts: 24,767 ✭✭✭✭molloyjh


    GerM wrote: »
    In fairness, you do really need to hit the ground running in the AP. Leicester struggled last season because they had a large number of players in the WC. The likes of Quins profited hugely as they were relatively unaffected and that set the tone for their season. Leicester only managed to get into a home SF position in the last weeks of the season, playing catch up for their poor start. It was only a superb run that got them back to where they were; they lost one game after the WC (late October) until the final in May.

    The point being that they can:

    a) afford to lose a few games
    b) win others even with a few youngsters in there

    This is still true. We can argue the merits of the 2 different leagues until the cows come home, but the simple fact is that they lost 6 games in the season and still came second. They don't absolutely have to win their first game. Northampton lost 3 of their first 5 and went on to lose another 5 games and still made the play-offs. The previous (non-RWC) season Northampton lost 8 games as well and again still made the play-offs.

    And they don't absolutely have to play their strongest team every time. Leicester beating Newcastle without their internationals proves that too. There is scope to develop players over the course of the season and that includes the pre-season games. They choose not to use those games for that purpose but then complain when their players tire during a long season.


  • #677
    molloyjh
    Registered Users Posts: 24,767 ✭✭✭✭molloyjh


    irishbucsfan wrote: »
    And they also suffered in the H Cup because of that. Look at what happened to them in Ravenhill, where they were clearly not at their best. Again because they were playing 100% week-in week-out against an opposition who are conditioning their performances on a semesterised basis.

    There is a level of naivety in certain Irish fans who don't quite see the vast array different conditions that the different clubs from different countries operate under and think that Leinster do what they do because they're geniuses in a world of dopes.

    We field such experimental teams in August because there is less to gain from playing a 2nds team than playing a team filled with youths and we are targetting 100% "installation" (the new pro sports buzz word!) in mid October, rather than the 1st of September. If we were playing in a properly competitive domestic league and had a full squad to select from then things would be different.

    In fairness I've never but claimed that Leinster do what they do because of the IRFU. We play younger guys because that's who we rely on at the start of the season, and then fall back on through-out the season. It's forced on us, but works out well enough in the end. I'm not advocating AP teams doing the exact same as us, but the polar opposite doesn't exactly make any sense either. Surely there's a happy medium.


  • #678
    Tox56
    Registered Users Posts: 11,636 ✭✭✭✭Tox56


    molloyjh wrote: »
    In fairness I've never but claimed that Leinster do what they do because of the IRFU. We play younger guys because that's who we rely on at the start of the season, and then fall back on through-out the season. It's forced on us, but works out well enough in the end. I'm not advocating AP teams doing the exact same as us, but the polar opposite doesn't exactly make any sense either. Surely there's a happy medium.

    Pretty much this. You can hit the ground running without playing your first choice team in pre-season games. If you're going to give young players a go this is the time to do it. We are in different circumstances and AP teams aren't going to field an academy team like us, but that doesn't mean they have to play their 1st choice XV.


  • #679
    irishbucsfan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    molloyjh wrote: »
    In fairness I've never but claimed that Leinster do what they do because of the IRFU. We play younger guys because that's who we rely on at the start of the season, and then fall back on through-out the season. It's forced on us, but works out well enough in the end. I'm not advocating AP teams doing the exact same as us, but the polar opposite doesn't exactly make any sense either. Surely there's a happy medium.

    It's not just the IRFU. The extended "pre-season" that we get leading up to the first Munster match is a big reason as well. We don't have to have our patterns in place until then because there's nothing worth playing for until then. That is not the case at all for AP or Top 14 teams.


  • #680
    irishbucsfan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    Tox56 wrote: »
    Pretty much this. You can hit the ground running without playing your first choice team in pre-season games. If you're going to give young players a go this is the time to do it.

    How exactly can you hit the ground running without playing proper warm-up games? Why do all these professional coaches at all the AP and Top 14 clubs have it so wrong?


  • #681
    Tox56
    Registered Users Posts: 11,636 ✭✭✭✭Tox56


    irishbucsfan wrote: »
    How exactly can you hit the ground running without playing proper warm-up games? Why do all these professional coaches at all the AP and Top 14 clubs have it so wrong?

    I think they can hit the ground running by mix and matching some youngsters into their team (Northampton still have another pre-season game). Hammering a developement side with your full team will help fitness but not much else.

    If they want to play their very best team in a meaningless friendly fine, but the problem comes when they then complain about having to play their best players too often.

    Harlequins starting team v Connacht was very very close to the best team they could possibly have put out, if you want to keep players fresh for later in the season and try out some younger players, this is an ideal time to do both.


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  • #682
    molloyjh
    Registered Users Posts: 24,767 ✭✭✭✭molloyjh


    irishbucsfan wrote: »
    It's not just the IRFU. The extended "pre-season" that we get leading up to the first Munster match is a big reason as well. We don't have to have our patterns in place until then because there's nothing worth playing for until then. That is not the case at all for AP or Top 14 teams.

    I don't think you'll ever hear anyone in the Leinster camp say that. The league is very important. Not as important as the HEC admittedly but that still doesn't make it "nothing". The money element is obviously a big factor, and there isn't anywhere near as much money in the Pro12 as the AP. But Leinster want to win it. We all saw that on their faces 3 months ago. But aren't the internationals on an IRFU run training programme and only available in certain windows anyway?

    I dunno, maybe I am a bit pissed at the AP for the latest drivel re the HEC - after all when the European Cup started there was no Celtic League and they were happy enough then to face teams that didn't have as tough a season. Now that they aren't winning and sharing as much of the spoils it's become an issue. But I still see scope for development that I don't think they are making the most of. It's 1 of 2 major issues I see with the way they approach the game over there - the other being the obvious lateral bish-bosh stuff.


  • #683
    molloyjh
    Registered Users Posts: 24,767 ✭✭✭✭molloyjh


    irishbucsfan wrote: »
    How exactly can you hit the ground running without playing proper warm-up games? Why do all these professional coaches at all the AP and Top 14 clubs have it so wrong?

    This is starting to stray off topic a wee bit but I wonder is it forced on them a bit. Didn't Leicester rest a few of their internationals when they came back from the RWC for a week and get stick over it from the fans? Or am I remembering that all wrong? Are they under pressure to deliver these guys week-in week-out? Because I can't see any other reason for flogging these guys all season long. They are saying themselves the guys are knackered by the end of it.

    Can't really comment on the Top14 as I don't watch enough of it.


  • #684
    totallegend
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,234 ✭✭✭totallegend


    Right, well, it's been about three pages since someone mentioned Leinster so I'll give it a lash...

    Given that we face Sale Sharks this weekend and they, presumably, will send their strongest team out to warm up for the start of the AP the following week (and it's their first match at their new ground in Salford), are we in for another hiding again? And will the youngsters learn anything from two beatings in a row?

    Would this be the strongest team we could field? Reckon it would be competitive enough against anything Sale could put out.

    15. Nacewa (is he available?)
    14. Conway
    13. Macken
    12. O'Shea
    11. Carr
    10. Madigan
    9. Boss
    1. van der Merwe
    2. Strauss
    3. Hagan
    4. Cullen
    5. Toner
    6. Ryan
    7. Jennings
    8. Auva'a


  • #685
    totallegend
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,234 ✭✭✭totallegend


    Tries from the Northampton game:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f7zAT0WqqAU&feature=youtu.be


  • #686
    Tox56
    Registered Users Posts: 11,636 ✭✭✭✭Tox56


    totallegend wrote: »
    Right, well, it's been about three pages since someone mentioned Leinster so I'll give it a lash...

    Given that we face Sale Sharks this weekend and they, presumably, will send their strongest team out to warm up for the start of the AP the following week (and it's their first match at their new ground in Salford), are we in for another hiding again? And will the youngsters learn anything from two beatings in a row?

    Would this be the strongest team we could field? Reckon it would be competitive enough against anything Sale could put out.

    15. Nacewa (is he available?)
    14. Conway
    13. Macken
    12. O'Shea
    11. Carr
    10. Madigan
    9. Boss
    1. van der Merwe
    2. Strauss
    3. Hagan
    4. Cullen
    5. Toner
    6. Ryan
    7. Jennings
    8. Auva'a

    I'd like to see McGrath maybe ahead of VdM and Flanagan involved too (where is he?), but I reckon that's a very strong team


  • #687
    molloyjh
    Registered Users Posts: 24,767 ✭✭✭✭molloyjh


    Will we see Roux in there maybe? He arrived over a few weeks back now and they were quick enough to get Sykes involved last season.


  • #688
    irishbucsfan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    Tox56 wrote: »
    I think they can hit the ground running by mix and matching some youngsters into their team (Northampton still have another pre-season game). Hammering a developement side with your full team will help fitness but not much else.

    If they want to play their very best team in a meaningless friendly fine, but the problem comes when they then complain about having to play their best players too often.

    Harlequins starting team v Connacht was very very close to the best team they could possibly have put out, if you want to keep players fresh for later in the season and try out some younger players, this is an ideal time to do both.
    That just doesnt work. You can't prepare a team by mixing and matching like you say. Defensive assignments, attacking patterns, kick coverage, set pieces. All of that comes from working together with the individuals you'll be playing with on match day. And as good as training is for that, nothing comes close to a live match situation for that. Leinster don't have that option because the IRFU protect the players.

    Which is another reason Leinster are so free to play so experimentally. Because they don't have a choice, there is no point playing half the first team, because the return you'll see for that is lessened by the fact you don't have everyone. So when that's the case you may as well throw out guys like Coghlan and Coughlan-Murray, because you're looking for a completely different result (seeing how these extremely inexperienced guys can handle the international opposition they might have to face in an injury crisis etc.).

    Look at the NFL. They have pre-season down to an art over there to the point where each teams preperations are virtually identical, with a little variance. For their pre-season games they send out the first string for a set amount of time. Then after a while they pull the entire first team and send out the 2nds, and then after that they'll pull those guys and send out the next string. They don't mix and match young guys into the lineups because it's nowhere nearly as beneficial. Again in other sports, Manchester United started an extremely strong team against Hannover last weekend. I could probably go on.

    Also, regardless of the opposition, Northampton still gained a huge amount from last weekend. The scoreline didn't diminish the benefit, it just shifted where they benefitted (attacking shorter lines, using quick ball etc.).


    Go look at match reports or match threads from the Munster game last November. People talking about how the teams were rusty, how they'll hope to improve as they clear out the cobwebs. AP and Top 14 teams can't leave it as late as us, which is great for us.


  • #689
    irishbucsfan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    totallegend wrote: »
    Right, well, it's been about three pages since someone mentioned Leinster so I'll give it a lash...
    :confused:


    eh? The conversation is about Leinsters pre-season systems v. That of our H Cup competitors. Couldnt be more relevant considering this is pre-season. And the entire conversation has continually referred to Leinster. Seems very much like back seat modding to me tbh.


    Predicting the team for Sale could be very tough. Will they continue to experiment in the centres in an attempt to find more cover? Or is it time to settle and get things going. Hard to tell.

    I think it'll be very interesting to see where guys like Denton and McGrath are. I think Gibbes will be tasked with getting "more Irish" in the tight 5 this season and so they'll probably give them every chance to become the second choice in their positions before the internationals return.


  • #690
    Tox56
    Registered Users Posts: 11,636 ✭✭✭✭Tox56


    I want to make it clear I don't think AP teams should go like us and put out a bunch of kids.

    It's a personal choice, but I think pre-season is a chance to see how younger players get on when playing with senior teammates (something AP teams rarely get the opportunity to do), and resting some senior players before a season when they will be hugely in demand (such is the competitiveness of the league). I think this is more beneficial overall than giving the first team a runout against a developement team.

    But as has already been pointed out, this is way off topic, and the state of the English league isn't particularly important to me, let them do as they please.


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  • #691
    irishbucsfan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    molloyjh wrote: »
    Will we see Roux in there maybe? He arrived over a few weeks back now and they were quick enough to get Sykes involved last season.

    I'm still not quite sure what the plan with Roux is. If he's here for 1 season then theres not really much point rushing him into the first team... As that experience might be more useful for someone with longer term ambitions to play for us. Also, Roux isn't your typical temporary overseas signing as he's still young and has loads to learn.

    Maybe he'll just end up being another Galarza-esque training body... Or maybe they reckon they can convince him to stay on, like WDP in Munster?


  • #692
    Winters
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,761 ✭✭✭✭Winters


    Tox56 wrote: »
    I'd like to see McGrath maybe ahead of VdM and Flanagan involved too (where is he?), but I reckon that's a very strong team

    MF was on the IRFU coaching course in St. Pats the weekend of the Gloucester game. He was doing some running but nothing too hectic. Didnt seem injured to me. Ian McKinley was there too.


  • #693
    molloyjh
    Registered Users Posts: 24,767 ✭✭✭✭molloyjh


    irishbucsfan wrote: »
    I'm still not quite sure what the plan with Roux is. If he's here for 1 season then theres not really much point rushing him into the first team... As that experience might be more useful for someone with longer term ambitions to play for us. Also, Roux isn't your typical temporary overseas signing as he's still young and has loads to learn.

    Maybe he'll just end up being another Galarza-esque training body... Or maybe they reckon they can convince him to stay on, like WDP in Munster?

    I'd hope it's the latter tbh. He is a big enough name back in SA given his age and there's plenty not happy at seeing him move up here. It would seem a bit wasteful for both him and Leinster to get him up and have him play a next to nothing role. But his role will be interesting all right. I'm assuming he's brought in to fulfil the enforcer role which we're not really filling ourselves atm.

    As for the team I think Joe is going to try and get a few people playing in multiple positions particularly in the backs. I wouldn't be surprised to see Madigan playing 12 as Joe has said he could well play a part there. I think it's a case of getting guys as comfortable as possible with all the positions they could be asked to fill in a short time frame. Although from the sounds of it Mads at 10 and Reid at 12 is the way to go.


  • #694
    Tox56
    Registered Users Posts: 11,636 ✭✭✭✭Tox56


    molloyjh wrote: »
    I'd hope it's the latter tbh. He is a big enough name back in SA given his age and there's plenty not happy at seeing him move up here. It would seem a bit wasteful for both him and Leinster to get him up and have him play a next to nothing role. But his role will be interesting all right. I'm assuming he's brought in to fulfil the enforcer role which we're not really filling ourselves atm.

    As for the team I think Joe is going to try and get a few people playing in multiple positions particularly in the backs. I wouldn't be surprised to see Madigan playing 12 as Joe has said he could well play a part there. I think it's a case of getting guys as comfortable as possible with all the positions they could be asked to fill in a short time frame. Although from the sounds of it Mads at 10 and Reid at 12 is the way to go.

    Who would be playing 10 if Madigan played 12? Reid looks a natural 12 from what I've seen (either that or he just isn't very comfortable at flyhalf), and Madigan's experience will be necessary at 10.


  • #695
    CatFromHue
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 18,217 Mod ✭✭✭✭CatFromHue


    Tox56 wrote: »
    I think they can hit the ground running by mix and matching some youngsters into their team (Northampton still have another pre-season game). Hammering a developement side with your full team will help fitness but not much else.

    If they want to play their very best team in a meaningless friendly fine, but the problem comes when they then complain about having to play their best players too often.

    Harlequins starting team v Connacht was very very close to the best team they could possibly have put out, if you want to keep players fresh for later in the season and try out some younger players, this is an ideal time to do both.

    Just on this. Northampton had a match day squad of 33 for the game on Saturday. The previous week they fielded two different 15's for each half. They're actually playing nearly all of the Senior players they have available at the moment. A quick look on their website shows they've 36 players listed in the Senior squad and 18 in their Academy. Leinster have 40 Senior players and 24 in their Academy.

    I'd imagine they couldn't afford to have a Senior and Academy squad like ours.


  • #696
    molloyjh
    Registered Users Posts: 24,767 ✭✭✭✭molloyjh


    Tox56 wrote: »
    Who would be playing 10 if Madigan played 12? Reid looks a natural 12 from what I've seen (either that or he just isn't very comfortable at flyhalf), and Madigan's experience will be necessary at 10.

    I'd say we'll see Reid at 10 again to facilitate Madigan at 12. That's not my selection btw, just what I think we'll see on Fridays teamsheet.


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  • #697
    Hagz
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,257 ✭✭✭Hagz


    Can someone link to where Schmidt says Madigan could play 12 this season. Can't find it.


  • #698
    irishbucsfan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    Hagz wrote: »
    Can someone link to where Schmidt says Madigan could play 12 this season. Can't find it.

    Was it in one of the videos? I can't find it now either

    I can't remember myself. He did say it though.


  • #699
    Podge_irl
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 27,288 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    molloyjh wrote: »
    I'd say we'll see Reid at 10 again to facilitate Madigan at 12. That's not my selection btw, just what I think we'll see on Fridays teamsheet.

    I think 10. Madigan 12. Reid is a better combo myself.

    But then what the **** do I know.


  • #700
    Hagz
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,257 ✭✭✭Hagz


    irishbucsfan wrote: »
    Was it in one of the videos? I can't find it now either

    I can't remember myself. He did say it though.

    Only video I can find is the Hago and Schmidt press conference. He does mention that Madigan can challenge for the 12 spot but it's vague. He doesn't say Madigan specifically, instead he says "those 3", meaning Reid, Goodman and Madigan, and he doesn't specifically mention 12, he says " those three can deputise at 10 or 12".

    In fact when talking about Madigan's versatility, he says "I think Ian Madigan can play at full-back, he has done last season for us, and certainly at 10." I'd think that if he had plans to play Madigan at 12 he would've made a more specific comment on it.


  • #701
    tolosenc
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,889 ✭✭✭tolosenc


    Just noticed that all of our home league games for the first half of the year are on RTE (with the exception of the interpros, which are on TG4)! Makes a change from last year when RTE was Munster central.


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